I agree with your assessment of Smiter, but why are you dismissing Brimaz with such certainty? He's good value for a 3MC creature, works well with exalted, blocks the hell out of zoo creatures while creating future chump blockers, and doesn't die to lightning bolt/helix.
He blocks the small zoo but about the only mid-range zoo creature he blocks is Nacatl. He loses to KotR, Smiter, and Goyf. Smiter at least trades with another Smiter and has the other things going for him. Remember you only get another token with Brimaz unless you attack into something. Bant can play both KotR and Geist in the 3 drop spot and will likely play at least a couple more Smiters or Cliques, so are you going to cram Brimaz in and play somewhere around 14-16 3 drops?
Either way, I always liked Bant a lot but I think it takes a back seat to Naya right now. They play almost the same game and Naya just goes bigger.
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So what would your maindeck look like now that KotR a good card again and Brimaz is available? I also noticed you didn't run any Smiters, would you change that now that Fae is gonna be a thing and UWR will probably get a little more popular?
Hi, I've done some changes to the main deck and it looks something as shown below:
I've included smiter over KoTR for consistency and landbase reasons (only 5 fetchlands + no utility lands). I've thought of running Jenara, asura of war in replacement but many argued she's not as good. Essentially, KoTR and Loxodon can interchange in the 4 slots. But, I would run both if possible.
Faith's shield, to me, is becoming a strong addition to Bant, giving pseudo-unblockability and protection on any permanent.
I agree with your assessment of Smiter, but why are you dismissing Brimaz with such certainty? He's good value for a 3MC creature, works well with exalted, blocks the hell out of zoo creatures while creating future chump blockers, and doesn't die to lightning bolt/helix.
He blocks the small zoo but about the only mid-range zoo creature he blocks is Nacatl. He loses to KotR, Smiter, and Goyf. Smiter at least trades with another Smiter and has the other things going for him. Remember you only get another token with Brimaz unless you attack into something. Bant can play both KotR and Geist in the 3 drop spot and will likely play at least a couple more Smiters or Cliques, so are you going to cram Brimaz in and play somewhere around 14-16 3 drops?
I agree that the 3-drops are getting really packed. But as a card, Brimaz is really good. Also, note that he gets tokens regardless he attacks or blocks, giving a free 2-for-1 blocking or a essentially a 4/5 power for 3 mana; I personally think that alone with his P/T for his casting cost is really giving him some credit. However, we may still have to get down the task to proxy or buy him and test a few rounds to really see if he shines in the deck. Personally, I'd use him in a hatebear style kind of decks maybe in G/W or Bant as my 75 has no place for him. Honestly in comparison with KoTR, Smiter or Geist and him, My top pick would be Geist, followed by Smiters.
Either way, I always liked Bant a lot but I think it takes a back seat to Naya right now. They play almost the same game and Naya just goes bigger. At least to me, Naya and Bant are very different decks. In my impression, Naya beats down with faster and stronger creatures, but lacking in their defenses, whereas Bant has access to utility to give them the advantage of controlling board presence better than Naya. Talking about Bant taking backseats, it has always been backseated since the banning of GSZ; It loses to Jund/Junk in their removal, reach and consistency, whereas Naya has access to faster/bigger creatures. Bant had consistency to answer their board presence and controls like counterspells and draws.
IMO so long as we are able to clear a path for our threats and stall the opponents enough by 1 turn, (namely geist of saint traft), we won't have to worry too much about the damage race.
Raalic, Brimaz has no place in the deck. Please don't suggest it does. The 3 drop spot is already packed, with no room for a mediocre addition. I also think you are wrong with your interpretation that Smiter got worse. We may see less of Jund but you are completely forgetting his other ability of not being countered. That is very relevant in what will be an explosion of Fae and Blue decks with snapcaster being better.
You're a bummer.
For the record, I don't know just how much I like Brimaz, but I am not going to dismiss it off the bat without testing it. I run 7-9 3-drops, usually, and that's the most valuable real estate in the deck. I don't plan to cut GoST, so that leaves precious little space. I also don't believe KotR is better than Smiter, even with DRS out of the format. As I said, KotR wasn't hot stuff in Modern before DRS was printed. He was better in Legacy where a land toolbox is much more meaningful, particularly in the presence of Wasteland.
That being said, Brimaz is a value card that deserves testing. And no, he doesn't create tokens only when he attacks. He creates tokens when he blocks. He's a roadblock for a lot of decks. He does trade with Smiter on blocks (survives on exalted attacks), and he at least trades with 3/4 Goyfs dumb enough to swing into him. That's the thing, though, he often comes down t2 and he's gonna stall boards until they're big enough to swing into him, which is pretty substantial. I'm not saying he definitely deserves a spot, but he deserves to be tried.
So the main plan is to land an early geist and ride it to victory with exalted/planeswalker effects with other efficient creatures and some disruption as backup.
Ajani also ensures finks never really dies. Could be pretty decent against all the zoo decks to come. What do you guys think ? Too cute ?
Also on paper, the deck looks a bit too fair to me. Any suggestions to make it stronger ?
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Here's where I would like to start testing. I hate late, or even mid game dorks ... So only 4 heirarchs. Counter spells and voice/ Goyf can curve us out anyway. Most of the cards are self explanatory, apart from a seeming unwillingness to cast cryptic command. The card is so good for whatever path the game takes. Counters when ur ahead, or vs combo, tap for alpha etc. we all know the power level of it, surely it warrants inclusion. Sorry for dodgey typos and lack of depth of discussion.... This is from my phone :/
This is a basic list I have created as a first draft. I will be testing this list and building a sideboard for it as well.
Cards that I want to play:
Knight of the Reliquary: would play him if I knew the meta and the power of scavenging ooze.
Rafiq, of the many: he's a strong card but would only be a 2-of. I don't want to play him until I know the meta more.
Vengevine: strong card that hasn't seen a lot of play. I think in a build with a lot of dorks would be key. If I were to do that my list would see substantial changes.
Vendillion Clique: sideboard for control Quash: 1-of in sideboard. This card single handed lot if it resolves and used right can best control, and beat all combo decks. IMO.
I played against Ad Nauseam (2-0), UWR Control (2-1), Jund (2-0), Through the Breach (2-1), and Cruel Control (2-1). I don't have notes on any of it, but I'll give you what I can from memory. Sideboarding is my best guess but probably pretty close.
Round 1, Ad Nauseam
1: I started off with Hierarch beats, later added a second Hierarch, then hit Gifts for Iona. Called black, and he was done. He didn't really play anything beyond filtering and mana rocks, so I wasn't sure what his plan was.
SB: -3 Path, +3 Pierce
2: Hierarch into a turn 2 Geist, take him down over the next couple turns. He had Angel's Grace to give himself an extra turn, but I had two counters in hand for his Phyrexian Unlife and counter.
Round 2, UWR Control
1: I had Hierarch into Ascetic. He burn Hierarch, but had nothing for Ascetic.
SB: -3 Path, +3 Pierce
2: I had some early threat, he had Anger of the Gods, I had Geist, he had Supreme Verdict, and I got beat by Vendilion Clique and Colonnade. I managed to draw Iona, Elesh Norn, and Rites this game.
3: I got a quick Thrun, which he couldn't do anything about. He gave me some good openings with huge Sphinx's Revelations and I got to Gifts into Iona on red. Elspeth jumping Thrun over a Snapcaster Mage and Iona took him from 14 to 0 in a turn.
Round 3, Jund
1: I got hit with some early discard, did some damage with mana dorks, then Gifted into Iona on black to kill him.
SB: -1 Gifts, -1 Pridemage, -1 Ascetic, +3 Leyline (I think. I know Leylines came in, I'm not positive on what came out)
2: Started with Leyline down, then hit a turn 2 Geist off of a Hierarch and went to town. Colonnade helped to get over his lone blocker for a win. Leyline definitely cut him off of a Thoughtseize, because he was trying to complain about my timing after dropping a really fast early land.
Round 4, Through the Breach
1: Birds into Ascetic, back it up with some exalted stuff, and get there. He was Looting into multiple Gristlebrand, so there's really no secret about what he's playing. He also plays this deck regularly in modern and legacy variants.
SB: -2 Worship, -2 Pridemage, -1 Elesh Norn, -1 Gifts, +3 RiP, +3 Spell Pierce
2: I had a turn 2 RiP and an Ascetic to follow it, but he had a Boseiju, Who Shelters All powered Through the Breach for Emrakul a few turns later. Went to 5, kept just the RiP to shut down Goryo's Vengeance, and got hit with another Breached Emrakul a couple turns later.
3: Turn 2 Geist, Makes a friend in Thrun a couple turns later, and an Engineered Explosives for 0 doesn't give him enough time to pull it out. He mentioned that he was going to Breach Emrakul the following turn, so good timing, I guess.
Round 5, Cruel Control (an earlier draw meant that we actually had to play this out, which is a little uncommon)
1: He just has removal for everything and manages to stick a Liliana of the Veil (that I absolutely should have Leaked). I can't get her all the way dead with Village, and she controls me right out of the game. I had Rites and Iona in the yard, but never got a second creature with enough mana to play both at once, so Lili's edict would have made short work of that.
SB: -4 Path, -1 Elesh Norn, -2 Worship, +3 Leyline, +2 Pierce, +2 Finks
2: I followed a Hierarch with a Hierarch and a Birds, then hit double Pridemage a couple turns after that. Somehow they all stuck and exalted beats got him.
SB: -1 Finks, +1 Pierce
3: I main-phased a Gifts while he was tapped out, then got a Hierarch and Ascetic down. Played a Leyline, which stopped at least one Cruel Ultimatum and an edict. Got Iona on black into play a couple turns later when he was tapped out again, and that was that.
I have to run now, but wanted to share a success story. I'll edit in some additional thoughts a little later.
Promised edit: I was generally happy with the list, given that I put it together day of and had never played a game with it before round 1. Worship seemed generally mediocre, but I surprisingly didn't play a lot of creature matchups. Combo and control are popular around here. I know there was a zoo list and a burn list that both could have been trouble, but I managed to dodge them. I want a second Thrun, but I didn't find one before the tournament. He'll probably replace a Worship, with the second one moving to the board over Spellskite. I may bump both over, but I'm not sure what replaces them main. Possibly a Pierce, because they're pretty generally good.
Elesh Norn was mediocre, but again, I didn't really play any of the decks where she would be relevant. I did love having the ability to do something unfair out of the blue. I caught a couple people who would have been unprepared for Gifts game two, just by virtue of not needing it with the primary beatdown plan.
Leyline is fantastic, especially given the ease of hardcasting it. I almost want to go up to four of them. I'd also love to find some room for Rhox War Monk, but I'm not sure where I would do that. I'm hesitant to make sweeping changes after last night, because I played two combo decks, two control decks, and beat Jund before he could really get moving.
I have a good friend on Bant for Richmond. I know the one card that has been sick lately in rigorous testing has been Simic Charm. Its ridiculously versatile, from stopping removal, pumping various creatures and even as a tempo setback with the unsummon option. Extremely potent, much more than expected.
I have a good friend on Bant for Richmond. I know the one card that has been sick lately in rigorous testing has been Simic Charm. Its ridiculously versatile, from stopping removal, pumping various creatures and even as a tempo setback with the unsummon option. Extremely potent, much more than expected.
I agree 100% w that statement. I have been playing a Bant Blink Control (based on Eternal Ruse) and I have 2 Simic Charms in the SB and they have been unbelieviable whenever i have boarded them in. All 3 modes have been unexpected and usually blow my opponent out bc they dont expect them. Hexproofing an aether vial, unsummoning a snap caster and hitting with a 6/4 clique are just some of the fun things i have done.
I've been playing Bant for a while. Personally I feel like its a very strong deck and extremely fun to play as well. I haven't played in any big events but just FNM (20-30 people) and generally top 4 with my list.
I would normally have 1 more spell snare (or spell pierce) and 2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos over the smiters but 8rack and GB liliana decks are extremely common in my meta so getting a free 4/4 is extremely helpful. I haven't tested with Simic Charm yet and I could really see that being a mainboard card not just side board honestly.
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I have been trying a different approach to bant recently. I have been playing it as a flash variant featuring Restoration angels, Vendilion Cliques, Mystic Snakes and Snapcaster mages. Mystic snake is pretty amazing in general, and gets alot of value from Restoration Angel, plus he cant be dispelled or swan songed by Twin, which is quite relevant. I have also considered spellstutterer sprite to add to the mix because she could provide another flash disruption threat since I have vendilion cliques. Ive also been using a single momentary blink to help the cause for reblinking triggers. Thoughts on this kind of idea?
I have been trying a different approach to bant recently. I have been playing it as a flash variant featuring Restoration angels, Vendilion Cliques, Mystic Snakes and Snapcaster mages. Mystic snake is pretty amazing in general, and gets alot of value from Restoration Angel, plus he cant be dispelled or swan songed by Twin, which is quite relevant. I have also considered spellstutterer sprite to add to the mix because she could provide another flash disruption threat since I have vendilion cliques. Ive also been using a single momentary blink to help the cause for reblinking triggers. Thoughts on this kind of idea?
Does sound interesting could you show a full decklist? Flickerwisp is the first card I can think of that could add some value based on the cards you said.
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The full decklist is a work in progress. I am not sure about spelstutterer sprite, but it is the only flash creature for two mana I am able to find in bant colors that has a relevant ability. The disruption package may be a bit harder overall. I know path to exile is a no brainer, and I was thinking perhaps spell pierces since alot of the meta is more combo'ish. I wish their was efficient cantrip, and I dont know if serum visions should be jammed in just because its the best thing available or not. I also dont know how many momentary blonks, Right now 1 is ok but I may add a second, time will tell.
I have not been able to play in any FNM's yet (my store just started them, and my work schedule has not allowed me to play in a tournament for a couple months now). It does some ridiculous and broken things sometimes but I have yet to find a good board. Deck seems to durdle just hard enough to beat U/W/R, Zoo, and Affinity but I have not been able to beat pod, twin, or storm on any of their reasonable draws (I mean when they don't get land screwed and they can actually play the game to their plan). I have yet to play against a tron player who doesn't get a turn 3 karn every game so I just do not count it (IDK what is with my friends, 5 matches the other day, at least 10 turn 3 karns). Drawing 4 cards from a mulldrifter and getting to keep a 2/2 flyer is my kind of value city.
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Bring back Transmute as a U/B mechanic and take your mill back to the depths of hell where it came from!
The full decklist is a work in progress. I am not sure about spelstutterer sprite, but it is the only flash creature for two mana I am able to find in bant colors that has a relevant ability. The disruption package may be a bit harder overall. I know path to exile is a no brainer, and I was thinking perhaps spell pierces since alot of the meta is more combo'ish. I wish their was efficient cantrip, and I dont know if serum visions should be jammed in just because its the best thing available or not. I also dont know how many momentary blonks, Right now 1 is ok but I may add a second, time will tell.
I went with the idea and made a mock list. I didn't test it or anything but just some ideas. Some other cantrips that might work could be azorius charm or think twice. Voidslime might not be too bad in this sort of list as well.
I'm probably low on where the land count should be. Spelstutter Sprite might work out but it also depends on how many faeries you want to run. scryb ranger adds to that count which I think is a fine card. Resto is good but I can not think of many ETB effects besides snapcaster and mystic snake but that might be all that you need.
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21 lands is way too low with a curve like that. In Flash build, Im looking to mostly beat them with fliers while disrupting them. I saw some other lists using Kira and Rafiq which was cool, which stops the first removal attempt, which is very relevant.
Hello, I'm a GW hatebear player, that is looking try out bant. Even though the deck is two colors it still has trouble with Blood Moon and since it runs arbiters, doesn't run fetches for basics and allow for big Kotr's. The hate in GW can also be marginal/detrimental at times and occasionally doesn't beat hard enough/have a reliable finisher.
Bant looks interesting to me, since I get to play counters and still have large beaters.
I just have a few starter questions:
I'm curious if unified will gets any consideration since it only looks terrible against small zoo, soul sisters, and merfolk?
Does Gavony Township also get a nod, or does the deck generally not have that kind of mana to spare?
Without GSZ/ponder, there's no effective tutor/deck manipulation, so does the deck run into a lot of inconsistencies/rely on good draws (Horizon canopy can kind of help)?
Can the deck be very vulnerable to supreme verdict? Elspeth helps here.
I've never been a huge fan of the D&T style flicker train since it can torpor orb (which I also like in my sb), how great are things like snapcaster, resto, flickerwisp (especiialy without aether vial), but more importantly how good is Vendillion in this deck?
Hello, I'm a GW hatebear player, that is looking try out bant. Even though the deck is two colors it still has trouble with Blood Moon and since it runs arbiters, doesn't run fetches for basics and allow for big Kotr's. The hate in GW can also be marginal/detrimental at times and occasionally doesn't beat hard enough/have a reliable finisher.
Bant looks interesting to me, since I get to play counters and still have large beaters.
I just have a few starter questions:
I'm curious if unified will gets any consideration since it only looks terrible against small zoo, soul sisters, and merfolk?
Does Gavony Township also get a nod, or does the deck generally not have that kind of mana to spare?
Without GSZ/ponder, there's no effective tutor/deck manipulation, so does the deck run into a lot of inconsistencies/rely on good draws (Horizon canopy can kind of help)?
Can the deck be very vulnerable to supreme verdict? Elspeth helps here.
I've never been a huge fan of the D&T style flicker train since it can torpor orb (which I also like in my sb), how great are things like snapcaster, resto, flickerwisp (especiialy without aether vial), but more importantly how good is Vendillion in this deck?
Hello VitaminJ's, I switched from GW Hate Bears to Bant myself and honestly have loved the switch. Blood moon is annoying and thats one of the reasons I always try to keep 1 basic of each color in my decks (if possible).
For your questions I've just now started putting in more counters into my list so I haven't tried unified will but it doesn't seem as consistent as Spell Pierce, leak, or spell snare, mostly from the decks you listed above.
Gavony would be a fine land and I have had times where I would have enough empty mana to dump into gavony but I haven't actually tested it yet.
There aren't many times I've had inconsistencies without having mulligans or not keeping a good hand. Horizon could help and I've considered switching to Remand to add card draw.
Supreme Verdict can hurt but as long as you don't over extend turn after you can normally play a creature. Thats a reason why I like this deck is that there are a very good selection beaters and you really only need 1-2 on the board to keep presence.
I don't run any flickering effects in the deck nor Vendillion (mostly cause of price) but lots of people do run Vendillion and have success with it. Snapcaster is good if you have more spells in the board, resto could be good to sace a creature but I've considered adding Simic Charm to do that same effect. Flickerwisp is something I'd consider adding before resto.
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He blocks the small zoo but about the only mid-range zoo creature he blocks is Nacatl. He loses to KotR, Smiter, and Goyf. Smiter at least trades with another Smiter and has the other things going for him. Remember you only get another token with Brimaz unless you attack into something. Bant can play both KotR and Geist in the 3 drop spot and will likely play at least a couple more Smiters or Cliques, so are you going to cram Brimaz in and play somewhere around 14-16 3 drops?
Either way, I always liked Bant a lot but I think it takes a back seat to Naya right now. They play almost the same game and Naya just goes bigger.
Modern
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Hi, I've done some changes to the main deck and it looks something as shown below:
1x Breeding Pool
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Marsh Flats
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
4x Razorverge Thicket
1x Stirring Wildwood
4x Temple Garden
Artifact (2)
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Noble Hierarch
3x Qasali Pridemage
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Voice of Resurgence
Instant (12)
2x Bant Charm
4x Faith's Shield
4x Path to Exile
2x Remand
Planeswalker (1)
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Kitchen Finks
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1x Spellskite
2x Stony Silence
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
2x Torpor Orb
I've included smiter over KoTR for consistency and landbase reasons (only 5 fetchlands + no utility lands). I've thought of running Jenara, asura of war in replacement but many argued she's not as good. Essentially, KoTR and Loxodon can interchange in the 4 slots. But, I would run both if possible.
Faith's shield, to me, is becoming a strong addition to Bant, giving pseudo-unblockability and protection on any permanent.
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)
RIP: GWU Midrange (2012-2013) | GWR Ally (2014-2016)
You're a bummer.
For the record, I don't know just how much I like Brimaz, but I am not going to dismiss it off the bat without testing it. I run 7-9 3-drops, usually, and that's the most valuable real estate in the deck. I don't plan to cut GoST, so that leaves precious little space. I also don't believe KotR is better than Smiter, even with DRS out of the format. As I said, KotR wasn't hot stuff in Modern before DRS was printed. He was better in Legacy where a land toolbox is much more meaningful, particularly in the presence of Wasteland.
That being said, Brimaz is a value card that deserves testing. And no, he doesn't create tokens only when he attacks. He creates tokens when he blocks. He's a roadblock for a lot of decks. He does trade with Smiter on blocks (survives on exalted attacks), and he at least trades with 3/4 Goyfs dumb enough to swing into him. That's the thing, though, he often comes down t2 and he's gonna stall boards until they're big enough to swing into him, which is pretty substantial. I'm not saying he definitely deserves a spot, but he deserves to be tried.
CG
I would like some opinions on the following list.
3 Birds of paradise
4 Geist of saint traft
4 knight of the reliquary
2 qasali pridemage
3 kitchen finks
2 scavenging ooze
1 thrun, the last troll
2 elspeth, knight-errant
4 mana leak
4 path to exile
2 spell pierce
1 dryad arbor
4 misty rainforest
1 verdant catacombs
1 celestial colonnade
2 breeding pool
4 temple garden
2 hallowed fountain
2 sejiri steppe
2 forest
1 plains
1 island
1 tectonic edge
So the main plan is to land an early geist and ride it to victory with exalted/planeswalker effects with other efficient creatures and some disruption as backup.
Ajani also ensures finks never really dies. Could be pretty decent against all the zoo decks to come. What do you guys think ? Too cute ?
Also on paper, the deck looks a bit too fair to me. Any suggestions to make it stronger ?
4 Tarmogoyf*
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Loxodon Smiter
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos*
3 Elspeth, Knight Errant
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Pierce
3 Remand
2 Bant Charm
3 Cryptic Command
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Plains
2 Island
2 Forest
2 Mystic Gate*
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Stirring Wildwood
2 Celestial Collonade
3 Stoney Silence
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Celestial Purge
2 Negate
2 Graffdigger's Cage*
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
Here's where I would like to start testing. I hate late, or even mid game dorks ... So only 4 heirarchs. Counter spells and voice/ Goyf can curve us out anyway. Most of the cards are self explanatory, apart from a seeming unwillingness to cast cryptic command. The card is so good for whatever path the game takes. Counters when ur ahead, or vs combo, tap for alpha etc. we all know the power level of it, surely it warrants inclusion. Sorry for dodgey typos and lack of depth of discussion.... This is from my phone :/
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Voice of Resurgence
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Lands:23
3 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
This is a basic list I have created as a first draft. I will be testing this list and building a sideboard for it as well.
Cards that I want to play:
Knight of the Reliquary: would play him if I knew the meta and the power of scavenging ooze.
Rafiq, of the many: he's a strong card but would only be a 2-of. I don't want to play him until I know the meta more.
Vengevine: strong card that hasn't seen a lot of play. I think in a build with a lot of dorks would be key. If I were to do that my list would see substantial changes.
Vendillion Clique: sideboard for control
Quash: 1-of in sideboard. This card single handed lot if it resolves and used right can best control, and beat all combo decks. IMO.
This is my bant list that runs vengevines:
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Voice of Resurgence
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Vengevine
4 Path to Exile
3 Mana Leak
2 Remand
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Lands:23
3 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
4 Temple Garden
3 Verdant Catacombs
This list is more aggressive and not as safe as the other deck in terms of meta. But I feel that it can deal with the majority of the meta.
I believe Revoke Existence will be a 2-of in my sideboard though.
UThada Adel AcquisitorU
GB Savara, Queen of the Golgori BG
GR Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG
3 Birds of Paradise
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Troll Ascetic
Spells (16)
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
1 Unburial Rites
2 Worship
Lands (23)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Breeding Pool
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Forest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Sunpetal Grove
2 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rest in Peace
3 Spell Pierce
1 Spellskite
I played against Ad Nauseam (2-0), UWR Control (2-1), Jund (2-0), Through the Breach (2-1), and Cruel Control (2-1). I don't have notes on any of it, but I'll give you what I can from memory. Sideboarding is my best guess but probably pretty close.
1: I started off with Hierarch beats, later added a second Hierarch, then hit Gifts for Iona. Called black, and he was done. He didn't really play anything beyond filtering and mana rocks, so I wasn't sure what his plan was.
SB: -3 Path, +3 Pierce
2: Hierarch into a turn 2 Geist, take him down over the next couple turns. He had Angel's Grace to give himself an extra turn, but I had two counters in hand for his Phyrexian Unlife and counter.
Round 2, UWR Control
1: I had Hierarch into Ascetic. He burn Hierarch, but had nothing for Ascetic.
SB: -3 Path, +3 Pierce
2: I had some early threat, he had Anger of the Gods, I had Geist, he had Supreme Verdict, and I got beat by Vendilion Clique and Colonnade. I managed to draw Iona, Elesh Norn, and Rites this game.
3: I got a quick Thrun, which he couldn't do anything about. He gave me some good openings with huge Sphinx's Revelations and I got to Gifts into Iona on red. Elspeth jumping Thrun over a Snapcaster Mage and Iona took him from 14 to 0 in a turn.
Round 3, Jund
1: I got hit with some early discard, did some damage with mana dorks, then Gifted into Iona on black to kill him.
SB: -1 Gifts, -1 Pridemage, -1 Ascetic, +3 Leyline (I think. I know Leylines came in, I'm not positive on what came out)
2: Started with Leyline down, then hit a turn 2 Geist off of a Hierarch and went to town. Colonnade helped to get over his lone blocker for a win. Leyline definitely cut him off of a Thoughtseize, because he was trying to complain about my timing after dropping a really fast early land.
Round 4, Through the Breach
1: Birds into Ascetic, back it up with some exalted stuff, and get there. He was Looting into multiple Gristlebrand, so there's really no secret about what he's playing. He also plays this deck regularly in modern and legacy variants.
SB: -2 Worship, -2 Pridemage, -1 Elesh Norn, -1 Gifts, +3 RiP, +3 Spell Pierce
2: I had a turn 2 RiP and an Ascetic to follow it, but he had a Boseiju, Who Shelters All powered Through the Breach for Emrakul a few turns later. Went to 5, kept just the RiP to shut down Goryo's Vengeance, and got hit with another Breached Emrakul a couple turns later.
3: Turn 2 Geist, Makes a friend in Thrun a couple turns later, and an Engineered Explosives for 0 doesn't give him enough time to pull it out. He mentioned that he was going to Breach Emrakul the following turn, so good timing, I guess.
Round 5, Cruel Control (an earlier draw meant that we actually had to play this out, which is a little uncommon)
1: He just has removal for everything and manages to stick a Liliana of the Veil (that I absolutely should have Leaked). I can't get her all the way dead with Village, and she controls me right out of the game. I had Rites and Iona in the yard, but never got a second creature with enough mana to play both at once, so Lili's edict would have made short work of that.
SB: -4 Path, -1 Elesh Norn, -2 Worship, +3 Leyline, +2 Pierce, +2 Finks
2: I followed a Hierarch with a Hierarch and a Birds, then hit double Pridemage a couple turns after that. Somehow they all stuck and exalted beats got him.
SB: -1 Finks, +1 Pierce
3: I main-phased a Gifts while he was tapped out, then got a Hierarch and Ascetic down. Played a Leyline, which stopped at least one Cruel Ultimatum and an edict. Got Iona on black into play a couple turns later when he was tapped out again, and that was that.
I have to run now, but wanted to share a success story. I'll edit in some additional thoughts a little later.
Promised edit: I was generally happy with the list, given that I put it together day of and had never played a game with it before round 1. Worship seemed generally mediocre, but I surprisingly didn't play a lot of creature matchups. Combo and control are popular around here. I know there was a zoo list and a burn list that both could have been trouble, but I managed to dodge them. I want a second Thrun, but I didn't find one before the tournament. He'll probably replace a Worship, with the second one moving to the board over Spellskite. I may bump both over, but I'm not sure what replaces them main. Possibly a Pierce, because they're pretty generally good.
Elesh Norn was mediocre, but again, I didn't really play any of the decks where she would be relevant. I did love having the ability to do something unfair out of the blue. I caught a couple people who would have been unprepared for Gifts game two, just by virtue of not needing it with the primary beatdown plan.
Leyline is fantastic, especially given the ease of hardcasting it. I almost want to go up to four of them. I'd also love to find some room for Rhox War Monk, but I'm not sure where I would do that. I'm hesitant to make sweeping changes after last night, because I played two combo decks, two control decks, and beat Jund before he could really get moving.
I agree 100% w that statement. I have been playing a Bant Blink Control (based on Eternal Ruse) and I have 2 Simic Charms in the SB and they have been unbelieviable whenever i have boarded them in. All 3 modes have been unexpected and usually blow my opponent out bc they dont expect them. Hexproofing an aether vial, unsummoning a snap caster and hitting with a 6/4 clique are just some of the fun things i have done.
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Restoration Angel
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
3 Cryptic Command
3 Spell Snare
2 Bant Charm
2 Jace Beleren
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Breeding Pool
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Flooded Grove
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Island
2 Forest
1 Plains
Sideboard:
1 Oust
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Ætherize
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Nature's Claim
I've been playing Bant for a while. Personally I feel like its a very strong deck and extremely fun to play as well. I haven't played in any big events but just FNM (20-30 people) and generally top 4 with my list.
4 geist of saint traft
4 Rhox war monk
3 knight of the reliquary
2 scavenging ooze
3 loxodon smiter
Support Creatures
2 silverblade paladin
3 qasali pridemage
1 sublime archangel
2 elspeth, knight-errant
Spells
4 path to exile
4 mana leak
1 spell snare
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Birds of paradise
Land
4 misty rainforest
4 marsh flats
1 breeding pool
2 hallowed fountain
2 temple garden
1 stirring wildwood
1 sejiri steppe
1 eiganjo castle
1 island
2 forest
1 plains
2 aven mindcensor
3 mirran crusader
2 tormod's crypt
1 gaddock teeg
2 kataki, war's wage
2 meddling mage
1 scavenging ooze
2 trygon predator
I would normally have 1 more spell snare (or spell pierce) and 2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos over the smiters but 8rack and GB liliana decks are extremely common in my meta so getting a free 4/4 is extremely helpful. I haven't tested with Simic Charm yet and I could really see that being a mainboard card not just side board honestly.
BRWMardu MidrangeBRW
GRA GR TronGRA
Standard Deck(s)
UW UW Heroic UW
BRWMardu AggroBRW
Legacy Deck
BRWMARDU DeathbladeBRW
Does sound interesting could you show a full decklist? Flickerwisp is the first card I can think of that could add some value based on the cards you said.
BRWMardu MidrangeBRW
GRA GR TronGRA
Standard Deck(s)
UW UW Heroic UW
BRWMardu AggroBRW
Legacy Deck
BRWMARDU DeathbladeBRW
I have not been able to play in any FNM's yet (my store just started them, and my work schedule has not allowed me to play in a tournament for a couple months now). It does some ridiculous and broken things sometimes but I have yet to find a good board. Deck seems to durdle just hard enough to beat U/W/R, Zoo, and Affinity but I have not been able to beat pod, twin, or storm on any of their reasonable draws (I mean when they don't get land screwed and they can actually play the game to their plan). I have yet to play against a tron player who doesn't get a turn 3 karn every game so I just do not count it (IDK what is with my friends, 5 matches the other day, at least 10 turn 3 karns). Drawing 4 cards from a mulldrifter and getting to keep a 2/2 flyer is my kind of value city.
I went with the idea and made a mock list. I didn't test it or anything but just some ideas. Some other cantrips that might work could be azorius charm or think twice. Voidslime might not be too bad in this sort of list as well.
1 bant charm
4 mana leak
1 momentary blink
4 path to exile
1 selesnya charm
1 spell pierce
1 spell snare
2 aven mindcensor
2 baneslayer angel
4 flickerwisp
3 mystic snake
4 noble hierarch
4 restoration angel
2 scryb ranger
3 snapcaster mage
2 vendilion clique
I'm probably low on where the land count should be. Spelstutter Sprite might work out but it also depends on how many faeries you want to run. scryb ranger adds to that count which I think is a fine card. Resto is good but I can not think of many ETB effects besides snapcaster and mystic snake but that might be all that you need.
BRWMardu MidrangeBRW
GRA GR TronGRA
Standard Deck(s)
UW UW Heroic UW
BRWMardu AggroBRW
Legacy Deck
BRWMARDU DeathbladeBRW
Bant looks interesting to me, since I get to play counters and still have large beaters.
I just have a few starter questions:
I'm curious if unified will gets any consideration since it only looks terrible against small zoo, soul sisters, and merfolk?
Does Gavony Township also get a nod, or does the deck generally not have that kind of mana to spare?
Without GSZ/ponder, there's no effective tutor/deck manipulation, so does the deck run into a lot of inconsistencies/rely on good draws (Horizon canopy can kind of help)?
Can the deck be very vulnerable to supreme verdict? Elspeth helps here.
I've never been a huge fan of the D&T style flicker train since it can torpor orb (which I also like in my sb), how great are things like snapcaster, resto, flickerwisp (especiialy without aether vial), but more importantly how good is Vendillion in this deck?
Hello VitaminJ's, I switched from GW Hate Bears to Bant myself and honestly have loved the switch. Blood moon is annoying and thats one of the reasons I always try to keep 1 basic of each color in my decks (if possible).
For your questions I've just now started putting in more counters into my list so I haven't tried unified will but it doesn't seem as consistent as Spell Pierce, leak, or spell snare, mostly from the decks you listed above.
Gavony would be a fine land and I have had times where I would have enough empty mana to dump into gavony but I haven't actually tested it yet.
There aren't many times I've had inconsistencies without having mulligans or not keeping a good hand. Horizon could help and I've considered switching to Remand to add card draw.
Supreme Verdict can hurt but as long as you don't over extend turn after you can normally play a creature. Thats a reason why I like this deck is that there are a very good selection beaters and you really only need 1-2 on the board to keep presence.
I don't run any flickering effects in the deck nor Vendillion (mostly cause of price) but lots of people do run Vendillion and have success with it. Snapcaster is good if you have more spells in the board, resto could be good to sace a creature but I've considered adding Simic Charm to do that same effect. Flickerwisp is something I'd consider adding before resto.
BRWMardu MidrangeBRW
GRA GR TronGRA
Standard Deck(s)
UW UW Heroic UW
BRWMardu AggroBRW
Legacy Deck
BRWMARDU DeathbladeBRW