I've been having a lot of success online with a black-splash variant of this. It's more control oriented and less midrange, but I don't think midrange is really where you want to be with this. My issue with going midrange is that you're usually just worse off at being a midrange deck than pod or jund, and you don't improve your combo or control matchups enough for it to be worthwhile.
I like playing 2x serum visions as a way to fix your upcoming draws. It's surprisingly relevant when digging for wraths or answers, and also helps you hit land-drops consistently with only 25 lands.
Augur of Bolas is way stronger than wall of omens (i've tried both), but has the caveat of not running too many creatures. It works out well in a more control oriented variant since you don't want to play tons of creatures anyway.
Repeal has always overperformed, and also is really strong when you topdeck discard effects like inquisition of kozilek, where you can bounce one of their permanents and then force them to discard it.
Black gives access to removal that doesn't ramp your opponent (path is awful at dealing with deathrites and confidants), Esper Charm (perfect card for any draw-go deck), and hand disruption. Creeping Tar-pit of course is a strong card as well. I've found my matchups against the field are pretty even with a lot of room for play, and I feel I have a definitive leg up on other blue decks due to the presence of Inquisition of Kozilek, which is really powerful against decks like UR tempo, or UWR control.
Believe it or not, I've had zero problems with my mana even with playing 3x Tectonic Edge. The main thing is you really can't play Cryptic Command because of this, but I haven't really missed not having cryptic in here, and I get to play a slew of much more efficient cards as a result. Tectonic Edge has been more valuable than a cryptic would be most of the time anyway, so it's not too bad of an issue.
I personally think you should try jamming some Mystical Teachings in there. I think with that many answer cards you can't go wrong with a tutor.
I personally think you should try jamming some Mystical Teachings in there. I think with that many answer cards you can't go wrong with a tutor.
Teachings is bad in modern (just my honest opinion). The only matchups it helps out are in slow grindy control matchups where you have a lot of turns where you're not doing anything aside from trying to hit land drops. 4 mana just to find an answer the next turn is a lot in a format where you're typically using all your mana every turn to answer your opponent's threats.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
Hey guys. I have been looking into building something similar to this, and I've been wondering if Clique and Snapcaster are required to make the deck work. I'm working on a bit of a budget, but obviously if they are 100% needed to make this work I will fit them into that budget somehow. I am sure there aren't many alternatives to them. I have seen many lists without Clique so I assume that can be cut out, but Snapcaster is everywhere. I was looking into Spellstutter Sprite, but my guess is that it would end up being extremely underwhelming in the place of Snapcaster. I may be wanting to look into a more CawBlade-esque deck as well. I appreciate any and all recommendations and help that you guys are willing to give me. Thanks!
Hey guys. I have been looking into building something similar to this, and I've been wondering if Clique and Snapcaster are required to make the deck work. I'm working on a bit of a budget, but obviously if they are 100% needed to make this work I will fit them into that budget somehow. I am sure there aren't many alternatives to them. I have seen many lists without Clique so I assume that can be cut out, but Snapcaster is everywhere. I was looking into Spellstutter Sprite, but my guess is that it would end up being extremely underwhelming in the place of Snapcaster. I may be wanting to look into a more CawBlade-esque deck as well. I appreciate any and all recommendations and help that you guys are willing to give me. Thanks!
Snapcaster is pretty necessary but Clique isn't (but I highly recommend, especially if you run Resto). Spellstutter will require you to run Clique and Mutavault and the Mutavaults will dilute the stable UW mana base.
I understand that 100%, and about 10 minutes after I posted the question a friend of mine told me that he has Snapcasters that I can borrow for a while. What do you think the best list with Blade Splicer, Resto, and Snapcaster would be? I'm trying to think of a creature that I would want to top off with. I've seen a lot of Sun Titan, but I want to run something that has additional value when I board in RIP. The fact that Snapcaster already gets neutered by RIP sucks, but only getting a 6/6 for 6 with RIP in play just seems lackluster, and I feel like that is something that would happen quite often with this deck. I've seen a few lists that run Batterskull, and then a few that run Baneslayer. I've started to lean toward Batterskull, because even without the token, you can equip it to you Restoration Angel and not have to worry about Abrupt Decay killing your creature. The recursion is also something that I feel would be super nice. I am definitely up for suggestions though. PM me any lists and feel free to tell me about any personal card choices that may even differ from the few options I have posted. Thanks again, all!
I understand that 100%, and about 10 minutes after I posted the question a friend of mine told me that he has Snapcasters that I can borrow for a while. What do you think the best list with Blade Splicer, Resto, and Snapcaster would be? I'm trying to think of a creature that I would want to top off with. I've seen a lot of Sun Titan, but I want to run something that has additional value when I board in RIP. The fact that Snapcaster already gets neutered by RIP sucks, but only getting a 6/6 for 6 with RIP in play just seems lackluster, and I feel like that is something that would happen quite often with this deck. I've seen a few lists that run Batterskull, and then a few that run Baneslayer. I've started to lean toward Batterskull, because even without the token, you can equip it to you Restoration Angel and not have to worry about Abrupt Decay killing your creature. The recursion is also something that I feel would be super nice. I am definitely up for suggestions though. PM me any lists and feel free to tell me about any personal card choices that may even differ from the few options I have posted. Thanks again, all!
1. I highly recommend trying them each out. Baneslayer makes profitable attacks extremely difficult but Batterskull can survive after a PtE. Sun Titan is great for Wall of Omens, Clique, Splicer, etc. one of my favorite plays is to recur Clique forcing them to have an instant speed answer as I can usually strip a sorcery speed one.
2. What makes you so set on RiP? I run 2 surgical extraction and along with a I can wreck a GY. Relic of Progenitous is really good as well. While you may hurt Snapcaster you will be hurting your opponent's strategy worse.
To each his own but I really like having my GY (but I run a Kitchen Finks build)
with snappy, geist and others in the deck, i really think you may benefit from running aether vial as a way to give your deck extra game. vialling in a snappy means you can cast cryptic command from your graveyard with only 4 mana up. that's a big bonus.
anyone considered it?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I run 2 surgical extraction and along with a I can wreck a GY. Relic of Progenitous is really good as well. While you may hurt Snapcaster you will be hurting your opponent's strategy worse.
To each his own but I really like having my GY (but I run a Kitchen Finks build)
I guess I wasn't really thinking about it because I was really planning on playing Finks as well. Also didn't even think about the interaction Snapcaster has with Surgical. I am liking Sun Titan a bit more now!
I'm new to the Uw Midrange buisness, sorta, i played my deck on two FNM's now and it was a blast.
I went 4-0 and 1-3, different opponents on both FNM's so my list really needs more testing. My list is also a bit different then the mainstream in this thread, i play it more tapout and focus on ETB.
If i could, i would switch the Reveillarks for Batterskull, the Solatri Priest is a blast, unblockable, nearly unkillable and gets huge with elspeth.
I like Batterskull much better in your build, Baneslayer would also be pretty nice. Also I think you should up your Colonnades to 4, it's such a good win con. 4 Supreme Verdict seems like a little much since you will likely have decent creature matchups as is, I recommend Celestial Purge as an out to RDW and Jund/junk. You may also want to consider some GY hate in your SB, modern decks often thrive if not rely solely on their GY and it's an easy weakness to exploit.
Overall I really like your list. You have a really high threat density so you'll likely have a decent game against most midrange and control decks.
@Bronson thanks man, yeah the 2 colonnades and the missing batterskull`s so far are due to my budget.
I only play local fnm, thats why i switch my SB constantly.
My biggest problem so far, is boarding, i never want to take out a single thing.
My build feels so tight.
I'd start with the Priests against any non red deck (TBH you could probably cut them for something better IMO). It's good but you have a lot of creatures as is, maybe some signets to accelerate out your big threats like Elspeth and Venser? You could also add a Sphinx's Revelation, it may be too flashy for your taste but I like having at least 1 in my UW decks because it can nearly end the game on the spot in the late game.
I'm not sure how anyone else feels about it, but if you are wanting to move a little bit further away from tap out, possibly adding in Think Twice and Spell Snare? Spell Snares are super cheap right now because of MMA, and Think Twice just got reprinted. I think you would only need 1 copy of Batterskull in your list as well. Maybe I am wrong, and please correct me if I am.
This is now the new home for all discussion of the UW Midrange strategy with no splash for other colors. Just like Junk, Jund, and BG Rock have different home threads, so too will UW Midrange.
If you wish to rename the primer and/or take it over, feel free to message me and we can talk about it. Let's get those brewing wheels turning!
I'll take it over if there are no objections. I will revamp the primer, and rename it to UW Geist. I will keep the original primer in tact in a spoiler for reference. If someone else wants to manage it im fine with that too, I can just copy my various posts from other threads for discussion here.
I'll take it over if there are no objections. I will revamp the primer, and rename it to UW Geist. I will keep the original primer in tact in a spoiler for reference. If someone else wants to manage it im fine with that too, I can just copy my various posts from other threads for discussion here.
Sounds good. Let me know when you have the primer written. Be sure to get in touch with Dead Weatherman to see if he wants to contribute because, technically, it's his thread and I want to respect his previous work. I'll also go ahead and rename the thread now just to get traffic started.
UW Geist is a modernized version of a classic UW control deck. This deck will give you that warm fuzzy feeling of being able to control the board via a healthy counterspell package, supplemented with removal spells. The UW spectrum is largely unexplored in Modern. Sure we have myriad UWR variations, but these decks are stretched so thin that a lot of them completely lose the ability to control the game. Worse, adding red to the UW control shell destroys the late game of the deck. This primer will go deep into the Azorius spectrum and abuse cards that UWR decks cannot find room for.
At heart, this is a control deck, but UW Geist can be positioned as a Jund-killer. Jund beats it's opponents by repeatedly 2 for 1'ing so that when the end game occurs they have a board advantage. With our control suite we nullify the strat by evenly trading blows until the endgame, where we pull away from them and take the game home. Geist is probably the most dangerous creature to Jund. With our control shell it is very easy to defend the Geist. If you are looking fora fresh new way to play UW I urge you to explore this primer and watch the accompanying videos.
III. Card Analysis
If you are reading this section you are interested in learning more about the deck. You may have some questions regarding the spells chosen for the official Primer list. Let me start by saying that the official list is meant to be as generically applicable as possible. It is in no way tuned to a specific meta. It is a core catch all control shell. There are a few slots in the Primer deck list that can be laterally shifted to other cards to attack certain metas. Use the core list here as a framework, and then pick cards to attack the specific meta you are in.
Finishers
There is your finisher package. Its streamlined at 16 cards, but it only takes 12 total deck slots. Each selection has it's own special feature. Each finisher can be played at a different stage of the game.
Delver of Secrets- Fast; nearly free; flies - I'm a huge fan of delver here, haters can make a lateral move to V. Clique
Geist of Saint Traft: Nearly impossible to remove; flies*, attacks in two pieces
Snapcaster Mage: Utiliy creature; extremely high value - It's an instant blue Demonic Tutor on a body.
Celestial Colonnade - Uncounterable, breaks stalemates; flies, Protection from sorceries, takes no deck space
Timing
Delver: played Early
Geist: played Mid
Colonnade: played Late
Snapcaster: played Early-Mid-Late
Optional Finishers
Vendilion Clique - One of the best blue creatures ever printed, this is a solid finisher option. Flash, flying, great against combo and control.
Restoration Angel - Another solid option. I think it lacks the "oomph" in this strategy that it has in an actual UW midrange deck
Kitchen Finks - One fo the best white creatures Moden has. Gains life, dodges removal, plays nice with bounce effects.
Or remove Delver and add all 3 to transform the deck in to a very solid Midrange option
Counterspells
We have some flexibility in the counterspell package we choose from. Mana Leak is very generic and should probably only be used when you are fighting an unknown meta. Dissolve is new to Theros but I have found it to be a high value counterspell. Let's go over the spells individually:
Cryptic Command: The Blue Wrath. Cryptic has amazing value and versatility. Here are some game breaking plays with Cryptic Command
Counter a spell, return Snapcaster to hand, Snap it back next turn
Flatten an opposing army at the end of their turn, swing with Geist and Colonade
Counter a spell and draw a card for instant card advantage, high value default mode
Dissolve: Before you dismiss this card I implore you to try it. It adds a 1 colorless mana kicker to Counterspell in exchange for a handy Scry 1. Helps you flip Delver. Hard counter that scales into late game.
Mana Leak: Listed in the Primer as a catch all, cheap counterspell. Honestly I do not recommend this to anyone in a known meta. Dispel or Condescend typically provide lateral options to Mana Leak that are meta specific. That said, Mana Leak is a solid 2cc counterspell.
Mana Tithe Optional: It's a Force Spike, a historically popular card. Tithe is a fantastic card against any fast meta. It hoses Junds early turns quite well. No one expects this card.
Dispel Optional: I am a huge fan of this card, it hits a lot of stuff. Hits all spot removal; Hits all counterspells; Hits all combat tricks; Hits most card draw. Highly recommended in even a moderately blue meta.
Condescend Optional : An old school counter that is completely playable in Modern. Scales well into late game and gives you a hearty Scry 2. Can be cast for B for the Scry effect only. In mana cases this card is strictly better than Mana Leak. Choose this over Mana Leak if you find your meta creates long grindy matches.
Removal Options
We are not running red here so our removal options are slightly more limited, but we still have plenty to choose from. In the primer deck list I am showing 3 Dismember, but you can mix and match this slot with the other options.
Path to Exile: Clearly the best removal spell in the format, cheap effective and it exiles the critter to prevent any "if this creature dies" effects. Run 4 of this, no questions asked
Dismember: A great 1 cc removal instant. Its painful to cast but our mana base is mostly painless so we have some extra life to spend here. Use this in your flex slot vs a creature heavy meta
Celestial Flare: This is a new M14 card that hasn't gotten much attention. It's quite effective against the bombs that Jund drops like Bob and Goys and Ooze. It doesnt target the critter so you can hit hexproofers. Use this as a 1-2 of in the removal slot along side other spells.
Journey to Nowhere: Another excellent card overlooked by the format, the only downside here is it's sorcery speed. You might have to wait a bit to use it if you are saving mana for counterspells. Still this is a solid choice.
Detention Sphere: Oblivion Ring on seroids. Can remove any non land permanent, but the 3cc can clog your hand. Use in small doses for maximum effect.
Ok I corrected those typos. I also added some more info in the card analysis section about optional finishers. You could even add all 3 if you are looking for a full on mid range strategy.
I personally think you should try jamming some Mystical Teachings in there. I think with that many answer cards you can't go wrong with a tutor.
XXXX
Modern
URTwinRU R.I.P.
EDH
WUGRoon of the Hidden RealmWUG
Teachings is bad in modern (just my honest opinion). The only matchups it helps out are in slow grindy control matchups where you have a lot of turns where you're not doing anything aside from trying to hit land drops. 4 mana just to find an answer the next turn is a lot in a format where you're typically using all your mana every turn to answer your opponent's threats.
Snapcaster is pretty necessary but Clique isn't (but I highly recommend, especially if you run Resto). Spellstutter will require you to run Clique and Mutavault and the Mutavaults will dilute the stable UW mana base.
XXXX
Modern
URTwinRU R.I.P.
EDH
WUGRoon of the Hidden RealmWUG
1. I highly recommend trying them each out. Baneslayer makes profitable attacks extremely difficult but Batterskull can survive after a PtE. Sun Titan is great for Wall of Omens, Clique, Splicer, etc. one of my favorite plays is to recur Clique forcing them to have an instant speed answer as I can usually strip a sorcery speed one.
2. What makes you so set on RiP? I run 2 surgical extraction and along with a I can wreck a GY. Relic of Progenitous is really good as well. While you may hurt Snapcaster you will be hurting your opponent's strategy worse.
To each his own but I really like having my GY (but I run a Kitchen Finks build)
XXXX
Modern
URTwinRU R.I.P.
EDH
WUGRoon of the Hidden RealmWUG
anyone considered it?
I guess I wasn't really thinking about it because I was really planning on playing Finks as well. Also didn't even think about the interaction Snapcaster has with Surgical. I am liking Sun Titan a bit more now!
I like Batterskull much better in your build, Baneslayer would also be pretty nice. Also I think you should up your Colonnades to 4, it's such a good win con. 4 Supreme Verdict seems like a little much since you will likely have decent creature matchups as is, I recommend Celestial Purge as an out to RDW and Jund/junk. You may also want to consider some GY hate in your SB, modern decks often thrive if not rely solely on their GY and it's an easy weakness to exploit.
Overall I really like your list. You have a really high threat density so you'll likely have a decent game against most midrange and control decks.
XXXX
Modern
URTwinRU R.I.P.
EDH
WUGRoon of the Hidden RealmWUG
I'd start with the Priests against any non red deck (TBH you could probably cut them for something better IMO). It's good but you have a lot of creatures as is, maybe some signets to accelerate out your big threats like Elspeth and Venser? You could also add a Sphinx's Revelation, it may be too flashy for your taste but I like having at least 1 in my UW decks because it can nearly end the game on the spot in the late game.
XXXX
Modern
URTwinRU R.I.P.
EDH
WUGRoon of the Hidden RealmWUG
If you wish to rename the primer and/or take it over, feel free to message me and we can talk about it. Let's get those brewing wheels turning!
Sounds good. Let me know when you have the primer written. Be sure to get in touch with Dead Weatherman to see if he wants to contribute because, technically, it's his thread and I want to respect his previous work. I'll also go ahead and rename the thread now just to get traffic started.
The Core
I. Introdcution
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Mystic Gate
1 Plains
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Arid Mesa
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
Inst./ Sorc.
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
4 Cryptic Command
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Dissolve
4 Mana Leak
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Pithing Needle
4 Supreme Verdict
III. Card Analysis
If you are reading this section you are interested in learning more about the deck. You may have some questions regarding the spells chosen for the official Primer list. Let me start by saying that the official list is meant to be as generically applicable as possible. It is in no way tuned to a specific meta. It is a core catch all control shell. There are a few slots in the Primer deck list that can be laterally shifted to other cards to attack certain metas. Use the core list here as a framework, and then pick cards to attack the specific meta you are in.
Finishers
There is your finisher package. Its streamlined at 16 cards, but it only takes 12 total deck slots. Each selection has it's own special feature. Each finisher can be played at a different stage of the game.
Timing
- Delver: played Early
- Geist: played Mid
- Colonnade: played Late
- Snapcaster: played Early-Mid-Late
Optional FinishersCounterspells
We have some flexibility in the counterspell package we choose from. Mana Leak is very generic and should probably only be used when you are fighting an unknown meta. Dissolve is new to Theros but I have found it to be a high value counterspell. Let's go over the spells individually:
Removal Options
We are not running red here so our removal options are slightly more limited, but we still have plenty to choose from. In the primer deck list I am showing 3 Dismember, but you can mix and match this slot with the other options.
IV. Matchups - In progress
V. Video Index
UW Geist Video Primer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvHwbSZY-Qg
11-24-13 UW Geist vs Jund: http://youtu.be/KCjGgVeKvrI ***Key Match Up***
11-23-13 UW Geist vs White Weenies: http://youtu.be/YbOK5fX_Du0
11-23-13 UW Geist vs Time Warp: http://youtu.be/tb2FStm5jDM
11-23-13 UW Geist vs Mesa Enchantress: http://youtu.be/hexRK8gmNEo
11-23-13 UW Geist vs Greater Gargadon: http://youtu.be/LqBBZoD3QkQ
11-23-13 UW Geist vs Jund: http://youtu.be/DuyAk37sHeU ***Key Match Up***
11-21-13 UW Geist vs Red Burn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGddmUN1Rv4
10-18-13 UW Geist vs Young Pyromancer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEbbdqiwzTQ
10-18-13 UW Geist vs Tezzeret Agent of Bolas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrG3Xktrd4I
10-18-13 UW Geist vs UWR Poor Sport: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59TfQQ9wA4k
10-17-13 UW Geist vs Mono Blue: http://youtu.be/LRduamoxq78
10-17-13 UW Geist vs BG Liliana: http://youtu.be/hgBI9PvXWao ***Key Match Up***
10-16-13 UW Geist - Delver Justification: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=matlE3JkX2M
10-12-13 UW Geist vs Green Eldrazi Ramp: http://youtu.be/Y9x2qCGTAwQ
10-12-13 UW Geist vs Goblins: http://youtu.be/CDkMexwjz8I
10-12-13 UW Geist vs An MTG Beginner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhjisP9drlo
10-12-13 UW Geist vs Elves!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2TiQPPZ9jc
10-12-13 UW Geist vs 8Rack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX68SPerX0E
10-12-13 UW Geist vs Grixis Control: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw-UnxS4ACA
10-12-13 UW Geist vs Jund: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRhwBLRRsKw ***Key Match Up***
10-12-13 UW Geist vs 8Rack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hfVhR8Em4M
10-11-13 UW Geist vs Ad Nauseum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsnnk-3L3FA
10-11-13 UW Geist vs BGw Rock Netdeck: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMypQYd_EOI
10-11-13 UW Geist vs UWR Control: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luBWiTlAMVc ***Key Match Up***
10-10-13 UW Geist vs White Death and Taxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT-9dbWyO2E
10-10-13 UW Geist vs The Rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JaFC7y925k ***Key Match Up***
10-10-13 UW Geist vs UW Polymorph Control: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjyn2I8dGB8
10-10-13 UW Geist vs Domri Rade Naya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5Jj-xv-KEc
10-10-13 UW Geist vs Lilianas Radkos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv2vHZRcHOs
10-9-13 UW Geist vs Radkos Burn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5R8ZNJnIFQ
10-9-13 UW Geist vs Tooth and Nail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN55D-bymMQ
9/29/13 UW Geist vs Boros Aggro Burn: http://youtu.be/RYSmvIwPMHk
9/27/13 UW Geist vs GP Detroit BG Rock list: http://youtu.be/AegqzcVImgk ***Key Match Up***
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.