MTG Salvation

Quote from FenrisianWolfX

I like your list with Deathrite Shaman and Batterskull, I have been spending a bit of time testing out Deathrite Shaman and even trying to move this deck into 4C, adding in the green. Still testing out though, but the shamans are just awesome.

Just some of my opinions, it's just my views only. I still prefer to stick with 4 Geist of Saint Traft, he is just straight up a win-con, and he is also a removal against opponent's Geist of Saint Traft. I am still quite iffy about Lingering Souls without weapon support, I'd still prefer kitchen finks since he helps replenish the lifepoint loss from fetch and shocks and is a good persisting wall, or even 2-3 of restoration angel. Hmm this is something I did quite a few times with restoration angel and it is quite neat, I got a Deathrite Shaman in play, my opponent tries to maybe abrupt decay or throw a bolt or a removal at it, in response I activate Deathrite Shaman to "eat up" one of his/her fetches in the grave to get mana, flash in restoration angel and blink Deathrite Shaman out of harm's way, next turn my turn, my opoonent has got a 3/4 flier and a shaman staring at him/her

So wish you all the best for your Modern FNM, I look forward to hearing about your experience there

So after all the deck tweaking, I decided last minute to play 4C Gifts instead of Esper Midrange, and did rather horribly... Oh well

Quote from Spellsnare

With an esper mana base Geth's is almost always going to be just worse than devour flesh.

How is Geth's Verdict going to be worse than Devour Flesh? Since, Geth's makes your opponent lose 1 life, while Devour Flesh gains them life.

Quote from Pand3m0nia

So after all the deck tweaking, I decided last minute to play 4C Gifts instead of Esper Midrange, and did rather horribly... Oh well

Haha, I understand. When I was testing out with DRS. When people see my esper landbase and DRS, they'd say "4C Gifts", but when I drop my GOST on turn 3, I see some frowning faces thinking "ehhhh wth is that???" and I'd be thinking "hehe, guess again"

Or when some people look through the deck, and they just simply throw some kind of sweeping statement (I don't like this kind of comments, hmph they don't really put in enough thought before speaking. And it is hmph irresponsible, they just simply throw a statement at you, but if you follow them, you bear the consequences of the error.) at you "Ah this looks like 4C Gifts, why don't you just play 4C Gifts"

The truth is they may look the same, but they are very different in terms of strategy and difficulty. I heard someone playing 4C Gifts said "4C Gifts is so sensitive, you change it abit, you may have changed everything..."

Our gameplan in Esper Midrange in a nutshell can be said to be having access to play disruption, drain our opponent's resources and we expect to drop a threat by turn 3 to 4 that the opponent needs to deal with (and it can be very difficult to deal with ie. GOST, Finks, Splicer etc), then we go into beatdown mode while we keep on throwing out disruption/removal.

(4C Gifts players may disagree or feel free to add on here, please do so. I am not a Gifts player, I am merely just stating out my observations here) 4C Gifts is definitely more grindy, and expects to grind it out and survive until later turns when they can safely throw out a Gifts or assemble their win cons (ie. Unburial rites + Iona/Elesh), the 4C Gifts pilot need to be much more patient and projects the gameplan further (ya they need to think more, it's not like simply throwing out a GOST, protect him and just keep attacking), this takes thought, time and presents a higher level of difficulty to pilot. Games are often long, and in a tournament setting with time limits, such a deck may be mentally draining and can considerably cause games to just go time-out. But I heard that when played skilfully, a Gifts deck can almost outlast and out-grind any other deck. I respect a skillful Gifts deck pilot, and the level of difficulty to pilot it well, I doubt that for most people, it is a deck that can be last minute taken up and be played with significant success, I believe it needs some practice.

Anyway, better luck again next time Keep it going.

Hey all,

So this deck seems to be popping up more often now since the bannings, and I think that Esper Midrange and Esper Control are virtually the same thing.

Here's a decklist I found from MODO:

chepa (3-1)
Modern Daily #5019711 on 02/14/2013



It opts for a a more control, less aggressive approach. I think the inclusion of Jace 4.0 is very interesting and I think it'll become clear in the next short while if he is indeed viable for Modern.

Quote from Pand3m0nia

Hey all,

So this deck seems to be popping up more often now since the bannings, and I think that Esper Midrange and Esper Control are virtually the same thing.

Here's a decklist I found from MODO:

chepa (3-1)
Modern Daily #5019711 on 02/14/2013

FenrisianWolfX's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Planeswalkers (5) 2 Jace, Architect of Thought 3 Liliana of the Veil Creatures (3) 3 Snapcaster Mage Artifacts (1) 1 Batterskull Instants (16) 1 Disfigure 1 Dismember 3 Esper Charm 3 Mana Leak 3 Path to Exile 2 Remand 1 Spell Pierce 2 Spell Snare Sorceries (10) 2 Damnation 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 3 Lingering Souls 1 Thoughtseize	Lands (25) 1 Celestial Colonnade 3 Creeping Tar Pit 4 Darkslick Shores 1 Godless Shrine 1 Hallowed Fountain 2 Island 4 Marsh Flats 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Plains 1 Swamp 2 Tectonic Edge 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 1 Verdant Catacombs 1 Watery Grave	Sideboard 1 Batterskull 1 Damnation 2 Disenchant 1 Dismember 2 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Path to Exile 2 Shadow of Doubt 1 Tectonic Edge 1 Thoughtseize 2 Timely Reinforcements 1 Wurmcoil Engine

It opts for a a more control, less aggressive approach. I think the inclusion of Jace 4.0 is very interesting and I think it'll become clear in the next short while if he is indeed viable for Modern.

Hmm interesting, the deck operates on a more controlling level. Any idea on how it improves/affects the match-ups?

Quote from Pand3m0nia

Hey all,

So this deck seems to be popping up more often now since the bannings, and I think that Esper Midrange and Esper Control are virtually the same thing.

Here's a decklist I found from MODO:

chepa (3-1)
Modern Daily #5019711 on 02/14/2013

rickster_'s DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Planeswalkers (5) 2 Jace, Architect of Thought 3 Liliana of the Veil Creatures (3) 3 Snapcaster Mage Artifacts (1) 1 Batterskull Instants (16) 1 Disfigure 1 Dismember 3 Esper Charm 3 Mana Leak 3 Path to Exile 2 Remand 1 Spell Pierce 2 Spell Snare Sorceries (10) 2 Damnation 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 3 Lingering Souls 1 Thoughtseize	Lands (25) 1 Celestial Colonnade 3 Creeping Tar Pit 4 Darkslick Shores 1 Godless Shrine 1 Hallowed Fountain 2 Island 4 Marsh Flats 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Plains 1 Swamp 2 Tectonic Edge 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 1 Verdant Catacombs 1 Watery Grave	Sideboard 1 Batterskull 1 Damnation 2 Disenchant 1 Dismember 2 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Path to Exile 2 Shadow of Doubt 1 Tectonic Edge 1 Thoughtseize 2 Timely Reinforcements 1 Wurmcoil Engine

It opts for a a more control, less aggressive approach. I think the inclusion of Jace 4.0 is very interesting and I think it'll become clear in the next short while if he is indeed viable for Modern.

That guy has been playing that deck for a while. It's fine, it's not the best deck, but it's not the worst.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=464813

An updated recent version.

Quote from Eskimo_Rage

Wow i was literally about to post a variant of UWr using esper and i realized it uses elements of jund. Luckily found this thread.

For me i will use restoration angel and a 1/2 of the obzedat ghost council to replace the baneslayer angel/ wurmcoil slot.

But otherwise it's pretty much all here, esper charm, geist, snapcaster, lilly, lingering souls etc.

Need to have a think after seeing this.

Glad to know that this thread could be of some use to you

There are two versions here, one that uses geist which resembles more or UW/UWR, and the Shaman version which resembles more of jund. Both still have more room for refining.

I find obzedat an interesting idea, has it been working out well for you?

True, since modern is a very fast format, it is safer to keep the curve low.

I don't run sculler in my geist version (since it is creature-light), but I do so in the deathrite shaman version. A lot of people say that shaman is a good card, and can be played in any BG deck, IMO that is not true, because people can easily just bolt/disfigure etc. it, IMO it should be played in decks with a lot of creatures that "needs to be dealt with", that way with the limited removal in the opponent's hand, he's gonna have a hard time thinking which to target (instead of easily just shooting a lonely shaman), Sculler helps to meet this objective, let's say there's such a scenario: opponent only has a bolt in hand, you got a liliana in the hand and a shaman and a sculler (that exiled maybe let's say tarmogoyf) on the board, your opponent is gonna be in the position of having to make a choice. Another very common example, is a shaman standing next to dark confidant, if your opponent has only 1 removal/ enough mana to only cast 1 removal then he's gonna have to choose.

Yes truly, T1 shaman/inquistion, T2 Sculler, T3 clique indeed sets up a lot of hand disruption. Cliques are good for also the flying 3/1 body, and sometimes simply taking away just 1 card from the opponent's could be all it takes to totally foil his gameplan.

I think you are coming up with a lot of interesting new ideas, please keep it going, I am sure after some testing and finetuning you can come out with a very solid modern esper deck, please do keep me posted about your new findings then

Quote from Eskimo_Rage

I have to say your lists run a ton of spot removal.

I'd go with this, and i'll see if i can get some games going on MWS.

FenrisianWolfX's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
creature 4 geist of saint traft 2 vendilion clique 4 snapcaster mage 2 restoration angel	instant 3 path to exile 2 makeshift mannequin 3 esper charm 2 go for the throat 2 geth's verdict 2 smother	sorcery 4 inquisition of kozilek 4 lingering souls 2 makeshift mannequin

I borrowed fenrisian's black spot removal suite but i've gone with 2 restoration angels and 2 makeshift mannequin at the top of the curve.

Makeshift mannequin has great synergy with all the creatures with EtB effects and can return a geist to the battlefield at instant speed with no drawback because of hexproof. So in UWr geist can dodge damage all day with restoration angel but they have no out against the legend rule, we can mannequin our geist back in when they both die in a mirror match.

It also opens up the possibility of cutting down on 2 instant speed removal and adding 2 shriekmaw instead as well as a some fulminator mage in the s/b.

The reason being that every modern thread i've been on recently people are commenting on how greedy modern land bases are, so i think mannequin + fulminator could be a legitimate form of disruption to get our geist's through. I'd have to rethink paths though with the lack of synergy.

We'll see if i get the time to test the theory.

Makeshift Mannequin is interesting (anyway I think you repeated them in your sorcery section of your list). Please keep us updated on how its working out for you

Yes, indeed I run a lot of spot removal in this deck. Even more so now, after the nerfing of storm and eggs. Interesting that modern is becoming a creature heavy format And that makes spot removal effective against most of the field (not all though. decks like UWR ajani control, esper teachings etc. dodges all that).

Quote from iamghost

Hi guys. I am a URW geist Player (Ex patriot delver player). I am testing a lot these days since i'll have a GPT next week to afford. I have found that i do very badly against black decks since their discard spells really I talked with an Esper player and a BUG player and they both were URW players before. They told they abandoned it properly because Black is definitely better. Should i try to switch to Esper? i don't own Liliana, but i see lists that just do not carry it. Now my choice is to go back to patriot delver with lynxes, or to try esper. Any advice?

Hi iamghost, welcome to this thread, wolf here I understand the power of black spells, which I have also highlighted in this thread that how black discard seemingly overpowers blue countermagic in modern. There are 2 versions of this deck here, one that works with geist that resembles UWR midrange more, and the shaman version, which resembles BUG/Jund more (but lacking goyfs).

Since you were playing UWR geist, I would presume that you may wanna try the geist version. Should you wish to try the geist version, I would like to highlight to you some notes first
- This deck is slower than UWR geist. It focus more establishing a firm control over the boardstate and then goes into near inevitable beatdown, rather than focusing on lifetotals. Therefore, it is considerably more on the controllish side and cannot steal games away by burning that UWR can. As a result, the difficulty level may be higher. Also, it has a harder matchup against RDW since it has no lightning helix to help mitigate burn.
- This deck simply just walks over goyf, almost any removal in this deck can kill goyf. Therefore, it is more resilient against goyf than UWR.
- I must say that based of my games, this deck has a favorable matchup against UWR. We have so many answers against them.
- This deck relies on recursion and discard (to selectively neg the opponent) to generate it's virtual CA. It has no card draw, the downside is that if you open with a subpar hand, you can't rely on drawing into better cards, on the other hand, due to this inherent drawback, you should seek to fill up this deck with strong independent spells, and so you would topdeck better.
- This deck has a stronger matchup against combo, due to its heavy disruption package that is made up of a combination of discard and counters.
- Creeping tarpits are within boltable range, but their cheaper activation cost and being unblockable, provides very solid inevitability.
- Liliana is a choice in this deck, you may prefer an instant speed sac spell like geth's verdict/devour flesh. I remembered I had a game against a rg tron player and he dropped an emrakul, he thought he was winning, then I responded with an instant speed geth's verdict, and he was just taken by surprise haha.

IMO you would need some practice with this deck, so I wouldn't really suggest it if you do not have much time left for the GPT. Jund Midrange would be a much safer choice but I am not sure if you have the goyfs and bobs. But if you have the cards readily available for this deck now, perhaps try out a few games and see how you feel about it. This deck is still developing, I would surely appreciate more inputs and feedback from you all I would also very appreciate if the esper player that you talked to could share his esper list with us

Quote from /zen

Hi everybody,

I'm currently also working on a version of this deck. When I started with T1.M I first played UR Gifts Storm and Robots. After the ban of Seething Song, I started playing WUR Delver and then turned into a more UWR Control like version.

Playing UWR Control I found myself really grinding out my matchups. Games took really long time because of stare down situations between threads while keeping mana open for counter spells. Well counter magic in modern can't really prevent unfair things from happening. UWR IMHO is a more reactive Deck that is good at staying in the game but has a problem finishing the game in a reasonable amount of time.

Playing Esper Midrange and therefore having access to black I find myself having quicker and more favorable matchups. Using discard, especially Inquisition of Kozilek, which is ridiculously good in Modern, and black removal, it's much easier to setup a situation in which a flipped Delver of Secrets, Geist of Saint Traft or Vendilion Clique wins the game unrivaled.

So here is the list I'm currently playing:

FenrisianWolfX's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
//Creatures (12) 4 Delver of Secrets 3 Snapcaster Mage 3 Geist of Saint Traft 2 Vendilion Clique //Sorcery (13) 4 Serum Visions 3 Lingering Souls 3 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Thoughtseize 1 Night's Whisper	//Instant (12) 4 Path to Exile 3 Mana Leak 2 Spell Snare 2 Dismember 1 Go for the Throat //Lands (23) 4 Scalding Tarn 3 Marsh Flats 2 Tectonic Edge 2 Creeping Tar Pit 2 Island 1 Godless Shrine 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Watery Grave 1 Plains 1 Swamp 1 Darkslick Shores 1 Seachrome Coast 1 Glacial Fortress 1 City of Brass 1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse

I'm really excited about Night's Whisper as a one off. In the early games it's a really cost effective way to refill your hand and with Snapcaster Mage in the late game it's even more ridiculous card advantage. I'm also using Serum Visions. On the one hand because I play Delver and on the other it helps to seal the game when setting up your draws.

A Member of my playtest team suggested Spellstutter Sprite instead of Delver but I'm not convinced because it does not really represent a quick clock.

Im not really happy with Spell Snare right now. I also want to ask you about your expieriences with Lingering Souls because I think they are not that good in the offense without Swords or anything to equip them with.

Greets /zen
*while(true);

Thanks for joining in our work in building an esper deck. If I am not wrong, I see your version as more tempo-oriented, so I would recommend Remand perhaps pover mana leaks. Yup I wouldn't suggest spellstutter sprite either, but what was your team mate's reasoning for suggesting that card? Indeed lingering souls would very much benefit from equipment but in modern, being able to summon up to 4 flying bodies with just 1 card is something that most people find it very hard to deal with other than using sweepers. Plus, it is a sorcery type of threat, which adds to your threat count and adds to the sorcery instant density that you need to flip delver

I am not so sure about far away, how is it going for you? Thoughtseize is definitely IMO a must play, especially when you are playing discard spells, it is good to have at least 6 of such spells in your deck, that gives a good chance for you to cast it T1. Zealous Persecution is very interesting indeed.

Why not dark confidant? For me is the main reason to play black

-2 Restoration Angel
-1 Liliana
-4 Mana leak
+4 Dark confidant
+3 Spell Pierce

Quote from Akoya

Hi,

I'm testing this deck for a while now. Still trying out some changes from time to time. Especially the sideboard isn't set so far. Would be great to get some criticism.

tarrasq's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards

Creatures (17) 4 Deathrite Shaman 4 Snapcaster Mage 4 Geist of Saint Traft 3 Vendilion Clique 2 Restoration Angel Instants (9) 4 Mana Leak 3 Path to Exile 2 Disfigure Sorcery (8) 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 1 Thoughtseize 3 Lingering Souls Planeswalker (4) 4 Liliana of the Veil Lands (22) 4 Marsh Flats 3 Misty Rainforest 2 Verdant Catacombs 1 Watery Grave 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Godless Shrine 1 Overgrown Tomb 1 Swamp 1 Island 1 Plains 1 Eiganjo Castle 1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse 2 Creeping Tar Pit 2 Tectonic Edge

Sideboard (15) 4 Leyline of Sanctity 2 Supreme Verdict 2 Detention Sphere 2 Stony Silence 2 Surgical Extraction 2 Spellskite 1 Pithing Needle

Just to throw in my two cents, here is the list I'm currently running. I love playing 3 of the best creatures available in modern right now in one deck. It holds its own quite well at local tourneys and I've yet to lose a match to UWr. Its matchup against burn doesn't seem great though. Sideboard is still a work in progress, but packs mostly combo and affinity hate.

What do you guys think of Vapor Snag? My build doesn't run any counters othan a pair of spell pierce. I feel that the Snag really helps with tempo. Perhaps I should find room for some remand/mana leak?

Quote from SovietOlga

What do you guys think of Vapor Snag? My build doesn't run any counters othan a pair of spell pierce. I feel that the Snag really helps with tempo. Perhaps I should find room for some remand/mana leak?

Well are we trying for a tempo build or midrange?

I have been following this thread and although I don't play the deck I would like to see it take off well, I'm a big fan of Esper.

The downside I feel with Vapor Snag is there are some modern decks out there, specifically combo, that play little to no creatures making it a dead card and its also card disadvantage. But yes great for tempo. I would say its worth a try with many of those creatures less combo decks on the disadvantage after the banned stuff.

But I have looked at these Esper Delver builds without GoST and I feel whats the point of white? Your better off in red and Grixis, but that's my opinion.

EDIT: Oh sorry that's a DRS in your list! My bad. Although I seen /zen has a delver

Anyone still testing this deck? I really dig midrange decks but Junk and Jund are so stinking expensive! I thought this deck looked sort of interesting.

Quote from /zen

So here we are, after a few iterations I want to share with you my current list. After slowly reducing the number of Geist of Saint Traft, he is now gone completely. With the format IMHO slowly solidifying towards creature based utility and combat tapping out for Geist of Saint Traft on Turn 3 evolves as a problem.

With only Vendilion Clique as a legendary creature, I removed Shizo, Death's Storehouse and Castle Eiganjo and added Ghost Quarter. On the one side because it enhances the Tron matchup and on the other side because it supports the plan of the deck, to take the opponent's options early in the game.

Despite the fact Night's Whisper was very good I have now removed it because I added Dark Confidant and it was absolutely worth it. One does not simply underestimated the influence of Bob Maher :wink:.

The last major change in the Mainboard is Engineered Explosives which handles a lot of problems and is very nice when you have a Insectile Aberration and 2 Lingering Souls token.

A few words about the Sideboard.

Surgical Extraction is IMHO straight the best cards you can pack in your SB right now. It's espacially awesome against Tron, Melira and Decks that pack a bunch of Sphinx's Revelation or Supreme Verdict.

Stony Silence still hoses Robots and it also provides huge advantage against Tron when you slam on the board it on turn 2.

Pithing Needle stops Domri Rade, Ajani Vengeant, Karn Liberated, Birthing Pod, Celestial Colonnade, Oblivion Stone and many more.

Dutch253's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
//Creatures (12) 4 Delver of Secrets 3 Snapcaster Mage 3 Dark Confidant 2 Vendilion Clique //Spells - Instant (12) 4 Path to Exile 2 Dismember 2 Remand 2 Spell Snare 1 Mana Leak 1 Go for the Throat //Spells - Sorcery (12) 4 Serum Visions 3 Lingering Souls 3 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Thoughtseize //Artifact (2) 2 Engineered Explosives	//Lands (22) 4 Scalding Tarn 3 Marsh Flats 2 Tectonic Edge 2 Island 1 Swamp 1 Plains 1 City of Brass 1 Darkslick Shores 1 Seachrome Coast 1 Ghost Quarter 1 Watery Grave 1 Godless Shrine 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Glacial Fortress 1 Drowned Catacomb	//Sideboard 3 Surgical Extraction 2 Spellskite 2 Pithing Needle 2 Stony Silence 2 Supreme Verdict 2 Rest for the Weary 1 Celestial Purge 1 Disenchant

Currently, I would like a little more pressure as well as gain life and think about adding swords to but still can not decide. Maybe someone of you has an idea.

Greets /zen
*while(true);

I'm a bit confused, how are these midrange decks? The top of your curve is...Clique? I'm really looking for a midrange deck thats a wee bit cheaper than Jund or Junk and I was thinking this could be it but it looks more like a control/hand disruption kinda thing?

Quote from Dutch253

I'm a bit confused, how are these midrange decks? The top of your curve is...Clique? I'm really looking for a midrange deck thats a wee bit cheaper than Jund or Junk and I was thinking this could be it but it looks more like a control/hand disruption kinda thing?

You're right, I think that list doesn't exactly fit the "midrange" definition. My list keeps in the Geist. I mean, you don't HAVE to slam it turn 3 if you want cast disruption or keep up counter magic. I also don't think Serum Visions is necessary in a non-combo deck since you shouldn't mind drawing any of your deck.