Yeah, Bant Charm is nuts, it really is. Maybe I'll test Render Silent, there aren't that many scenarios in my play circle where players play multiple spells in one turn though.
I've been play testing my budget variant a lot, it's been very successful. I have few few bad match ups and I find it's a lot of fun to play, I'm still looking for feedback of course. Here's the current build, I made quite a few changes. The land base is still quite budget friendly, but pretty consistent. I still love Gideon Jura, and I feel more people should test him out, he's really an allstar.
I have not much experience in modern. Now looking for a deck that could be proper for me and Eternal Gifts seems to be very interesting.
I'm curious if graveyard hate isn't too big problem for this strategy. I'm afraid of cards like Rest in Peace, Deathrite Shaman, Relic of Progenitus, Scavenging Ooze and more. There is lots of it all oround. And Torpor Orb can be a serious trouble.
Don't you have any problems with them?
Is all of your counterpells and removals enought?
Another question: Is Phantasmal Image necessary? How important role is he playing here?
Honor Basquiat - nice to see that I'm not the only one who has a budget manabase and it can be playable
Graveyard hate is a bit annoying, and IS a small weakness of the deck. With that said, creature-graveyard hate isn't that problematic since you can just kill their creatures with paths, bant charms, wraths, or ousts. Other graveyard hate can be dealt with via cryptic command, counters, bant charm, or repeals.
As for Phantasmal image, I wouldn't say it's "necessary" for this deck to operate, but it's a very strong singleton in here since it has some awesome synergies with Eternal Witness, Sun Titan, Reveillark, Kitchen Finks, and Restoration Angel. It essentially makes any creature-based gifts package more valuable simply by it's inclusion.
For example: The gifts package of Eternal Witness, Sun Titan, Reveillark, and Phantasmal Image is way more powerful when you include image in it, but you can also include any extra value-card if you want to set up something like a Cryptic Command Eternal Witness soft-lock.
Not only does this package form a recursion loop between Titan, Lark, Witness, and Image, but it also allows you to do stupid stuff with Image like copying your lark or sun titan for only 2 cmc.
-If they give you the witness and image package, you then can play witness, then copy witness for only 2 mana and return both titan and lark to your hand.
-If they give you reveillark and image, you then gain an infinitely looping Reveillark since Phantasmal image copying reveillark can trigger itself and return itself to the battlefield upon dying (since image has 0 power in the graveyard).
-If they give you Sun Titan and Image, then you can cast titan returning witness to the battlefield, henceforth returning reveillark, then copy sun titan or witness with image for more shenanigans.
The other great part about Phantasmal image is that it's never all that bad against aggro or fair decks. Most of the time it'll copy one of your opponent's better creatures, and force them to waste a removal spell on it, only for it to come back from the graveyard 1-2 turns later via Witness, Sun Titan, or Reveillark.
The original reason I included image in here was as a way to deal with Geist of Saint Traft. I didn't even realize at the time how powerful it was in a deck with a ton of value-creatures and graveyard recursion, but it turned out to be one of the strongest cards in here.
In the next few days, i think im going to try out a rug variant of this deck. Lightning bolt is super powerful, and while the sun titan stuff is awesome, it may be better to play bolt and electrolyze with all sun's dawn as the late game recursion spell of choice.
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Find me online - I'm on Cockatrice * Tag - Badd B - Or on MTGO - Tag - Cbus05
I have not much experience in modern. Now looking for a deck that could be proper for me and Eternal Gifts seems to be very interesting.
I'm curious if graveyard hate isn't too big problem for this strategy. I'm afraid of cards like Rest in Peace, Deathrite Shaman, Relic of Progenitus, Scavenging Ooze and more. There is lots of it all oround. And Torpor Orb can be a serious trouble.
Don't you have any problems with them?
Is all of your counterpells and removals enought?
Another question: Is Phantasmal Image necessary? How important role is he playing here?
Honor Basquiat - nice to see that I'm not the only one who has a budget manabase and it can be playable
Graveyard hate really hurts, sometimes we can't counter it all, but usually we should be able to (for what it's worth, my build runs less counters than others I'm seeing). I would say if your meta is filled with it, you may want to consider another deck to be honest.
Torpor Orb is less of a problem because we can Bant Charm it. Phantasmal Image is outrageously good not just because it can copy Eternal Witness and Sun Titan, but also because it can mirror cool stuff your opponent plays, like Prime Time, or Blightsteel, or anything. For what it's worth, I think this is possible on a budget, I'm having great success with my build, and I seldom have problems with my mana base.
Green is much more important than red. The whole reason the deck is consistent is because Eternal Witness ensures you always get the answers you need. Green also gives you budget ramp, and Bant Charm which is just amazing. White gives you Path To Exile, along with Condemn and Sun Titan. White also gives you Celestial Colonnade and most importantly board wipes like Day of Judgment (not to mention lifegain).
Red really doesn't bring much here, I can't think of anything I'd even want from red except for Lightning Bolt, and Izzet Charm. Maybe Lightning Helix and Ajani Vengeant but then you'd HAVE to cut green, if you cut green you might as well just play storm gifts.
In the next few days, i think im going to try out a rug variant of this deck. Lightning bolt is super powerful, and while the sun titan stuff is awesome, it may be better to play bolt and electrolyze with all sun's dawn as the late game recursion spell of choice.
Yep sadly red is just far to good in modern for removal, and even though Bant is my fave shard this deck is just too weak to agro AND yard hate. Why give opponents bonuses for killing there early play when you can bolt it or their face if they are combo? Oh and u get acces to a 2 mana day of judgement (exaggerated pyroclasm) What is white realy giving besides value recursion That gifts and Witnes already do or green for that matter? Witness is kinda just a slower harder to cast snap caster.
I love Gifts but sadly is just so bad now as it is either to slow or to disruptable.
Hehe don't forget Mystic Retrieval in red gifts builds!
Yep sadly red is just far to good in modern for removal, and even though Bant is my fave shard this deck is just too weak to agro AND yard hate. Why give opponents bonuses for killing there early play when you can bolt it or their face if they are combo? Oh and u get acces to a 2 mana day of judgement (exaggerated pyroclasm) What is white realy giving besides value recursion That gifts and Witnes already do or green for that matter? Witness is kinda just a slower harder to cast snap caster.
I love Gifts but sadly is just so bad now as it is either to slow or to disruptable.
Hehe don't forget Mystic Retrieval in red gifts builds!
I haven't had a huge problem with graveyard hate, but the biggest issue I've had with this deck is how bad Path to Exile is as your primary removal spell. If lightning bolt were white, this deck would be 10x better than it currently is.
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Yep sadly red is just far to good in modern for removal, and even though Bant is my fave shard this deck is just too weak to agro AND yard hate. Why give opponents bonuses for killing there early play when you can bolt it or their face if they are combo? Oh and u get acces to a 2 mana day of judgement (exaggerated pyroclasm) What is white realy giving besides value recursion That gifts and Witnes already do or green for that matter? Witness is kinda just a slower harder to cast snap caster.
I love Gifts but sadly is just so bad now as it is either to slow or to disruptable.
Hehe don't forget Mystic Retrieval in red gifts builds!
Cutting White really doesn't make sense. Sun Titan and Reveillark are the defacto finishers for this deck (Gideon Jura is also very good). Bant Charm is basically a must run. Path To Exile, Condemn, Oust and Bant Charm are good because unlike Lightning Bolt, they get rid of creatures without triggering die effects (Undying, Wither, etc.), they also get around indestructibility. Pyroclasm is not anywhere near as good as Wrath of God. Revive is basically better than Mystic Retrieval anyway, and I don't even think it's good enough to run.
If someone really wanted to make the mana base even more complicated, they could try 4 colors, but cutting white is just foolish unless you are playing Storm Gifts.
And if you were going for red, Revive is not nearly as good as mystic retrieval - because whether they let you keep it or not't, you still get to use it. And if they let you keep it you get to use it twice.
I've been playing a deck really similar to this (actually more similar to the Gifts deck from worlds) but going more heavy on the black and light on the blue.
Oust is really good, but I'm beginning to think it's overrated. The vast majority of the time the card is especially useful, it's within the first two turns of the game, and Sunlance would have been better anyway. I might test Sunlance.
My play circle (local card shop) is more casual the the majority of the players here, so I'm thinking of cutting Familiar Ruse for another card, if you have any ideas, shoot and I can do some testing for you guys.
As odd as it sounds, I think a one of Oblivion Ring could be interesting. There are a few control match ups I'm losing to planeswalkers, it's also more removal.
Vlor, that's a solid list, I think as tempting as Rewind seems, I don't think my budget mana base can handle it (The same reason I ruled out Voidslime). At the same time, I already am running Dissipate, and Familiar Ruse, so maybe I'm not giving my mana base enough credit. Jace Beleren could be interesting or even Jace, Memory Adept.
Here's a weird suggestion... what about Worship guys? Story Circle also could be cute by the way.
Here you will find the 4cc gift thread. Eternal gifts is a variant using cards the place the grave back on top of you deck or in you hand to gain access to both gift piles.
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I've been play testing my budget variant a lot, it's been very successful. I have few few bad match ups and I find it's a lot of fun to play, I'm still looking for feedback of course. Here's the current build, I made quite a few changes. The land base is still quite budget friendly, but pretty consistent. I still love Gideon Jura, and I feel more people should test him out, he's really an allstar.
4x Eternal Witness
4x Gifts Ungiven
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Wall of Omens
2x Dissipate
2x Mana Leak
2x Spell Snare
1x Familiar Ruse
2x Bant Charm
1x Oust
3x Path to Exile
1x Condemn
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Wrath of God
1x Reveillark
1x Sun Titan
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Gideon Jura
4x Forest
2x Glacial Fortress
6x Island
6x Plains
2x Hinterland Harbor
1x Stirring Wildwood (Alternate Win Condition)
2x Sunpetal Grove
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Graveyard hate is a bit annoying, and IS a small weakness of the deck. With that said, creature-graveyard hate isn't that problematic since you can just kill their creatures with paths, bant charms, wraths, or ousts. Other graveyard hate can be dealt with via cryptic command, counters, bant charm, or repeals.
As for Phantasmal image, I wouldn't say it's "necessary" for this deck to operate, but it's a very strong singleton in here since it has some awesome synergies with Eternal Witness, Sun Titan, Reveillark, Kitchen Finks, and Restoration Angel. It essentially makes any creature-based gifts package more valuable simply by it's inclusion.
For example: The gifts package of Eternal Witness, Sun Titan, Reveillark, and Phantasmal Image is way more powerful when you include image in it, but you can also include any extra value-card if you want to set up something like a Cryptic Command Eternal Witness soft-lock.
Not only does this package form a recursion loop between Titan, Lark, Witness, and Image, but it also allows you to do stupid stuff with Image like copying your lark or sun titan for only 2 cmc.
-If they give you the witness and image package, you then can play witness, then copy witness for only 2 mana and return both titan and lark to your hand.
-If they give you reveillark and image, you then gain an infinitely looping Reveillark since Phantasmal image copying reveillark can trigger itself and return itself to the battlefield upon dying (since image has 0 power in the graveyard).
-If they give you Sun Titan and Image, then you can cast titan returning witness to the battlefield, henceforth returning reveillark, then copy sun titan or witness with image for more shenanigans.
The other great part about Phantasmal image is that it's never all that bad against aggro or fair decks. Most of the time it'll copy one of your opponent's better creatures, and force them to waste a removal spell on it, only for it to come back from the graveyard 1-2 turns later via Witness, Sun Titan, or Reveillark.
The original reason I included image in here was as a way to deal with Geist of Saint Traft. I didn't even realize at the time how powerful it was in a deck with a ton of value-creatures and graveyard recursion, but it turned out to be one of the strongest cards in here.
Graveyard hate really hurts, sometimes we can't counter it all, but usually we should be able to (for what it's worth, my build runs less counters than others I'm seeing). I would say if your meta is filled with it, you may want to consider another deck to be honest.
Torpor Orb is less of a problem because we can Bant Charm it. Phantasmal Image is outrageously good not just because it can copy Eternal Witness and Sun Titan, but also because it can mirror cool stuff your opponent plays, like Prime Time, or Blightsteel, or anything. For what it's worth, I think this is possible on a budget, I'm having great success with my build, and I seldom have problems with my mana base.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Red really doesn't bring much here, I can't think of anything I'd even want from red except for Lightning Bolt, and Izzet Charm. Maybe Lightning Helix and Ajani Vengeant but then you'd HAVE to cut green, if you cut green you might as well just play storm gifts.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Yep sadly red is just far to good in modern for removal, and even though Bant is my fave shard this deck is just too weak to agro AND yard hate. Why give opponents bonuses for killing there early play when you can bolt it or their face if they are combo? Oh and u get acces to a 2 mana day of judgement (exaggerated pyroclasm) What is white realy giving besides value recursion That gifts and Witnes already do or green for that matter? Witness is kinda just a slower harder to cast snap caster.
I love Gifts but sadly is just so bad now as it is either to slow or to disruptable.
Hehe don't forget Mystic Retrieval in red gifts builds!
I haven't had a huge problem with graveyard hate, but the biggest issue I've had with this deck is how bad Path to Exile is as your primary removal spell. If lightning bolt were white, this deck would be 10x better than it currently is.
Cutting White really doesn't make sense. Sun Titan and Reveillark are the defacto finishers for this deck (Gideon Jura is also very good). Bant Charm is basically a must run. Path To Exile, Condemn, Oust and Bant Charm are good because unlike Lightning Bolt, they get rid of creatures without triggering die effects (Undying, Wither, etc.), they also get around indestructibility. Pyroclasm is not anywhere near as good as Wrath of God. Revive is basically better than Mystic Retrieval anyway, and I don't even think it's good enough to run.
If someone really wanted to make the mana base even more complicated, they could try 4 colors, but cutting white is just foolish unless you are playing Storm Gifts.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
But even then, I feel that black is the 4th color this deck needs, not red. Black gives us:
Liliana of the Veil
Unburial Rites
Lingering Souls (this one is huge at helping against aggro)
Abrupt Decay
Deathrite Shaman
Maelstrom Pulse
And if you were going for red, Revive is not nearly as good as mystic retrieval - because whether they let you keep it or not't, you still get to use it. And if they let you keep it you get to use it twice.
I've been playing a deck really similar to this (actually more similar to the Gifts deck from worlds) but going more heavy on the black and light on the blue.
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Spells (20):
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
3 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Raven's Crime
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Unburial Rites
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Watery Grave
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Gavony Township
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Negate
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Dismember
2 Fracturing Gust
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Academy Ruins
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Scavenging Ooze
The most common Gifts pull for me is: Eternal Witness, Sun Titan, Liliana of the Veil, Unburial Rites
This ensures that I will get to use all of the cards I searched for, regardless of which ones they send to my hand/yard.
Draft My Cube!
My play circle (local card shop) is more casual the the majority of the players here, so I'm thinking of cutting Familiar Ruse for another card, if you have any ideas, shoot and I can do some testing for you guys.
As odd as it sounds, I think a one of Oblivion Ring could be interesting. There are a few control match ups I'm losing to planeswalkers, it's also more removal.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Here's a weird suggestion... what about Worship guys? Story Circle also could be cute by the way.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/4-color-gifts-11-08-13-1/
I would post here : http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=456189&page=54
Here you will find the 4cc gift thread. Eternal gifts is a variant using cards the place the grave back on top of you deck or in you hand to gain access to both gift piles.