I quit playing during spoiler season for MH and it appears that all we got from this amazing format saving set was a brand new most broken deck in the format! Wow awesome job guys! I just played my first league in 2 months and even though I went 3/2 I think I'll just go right back to quitting again. This format just keeps getting worse.
According to several people, this is supposed to be "healthy" except for one deck. Your mileage may vary.
Now is a great time to quit magic actually. If one hates the format so much, it is a good time to cash out. If you really feel the format/game has sunk to some irreparable level cashing out and making your voice heard by not buying in is your best way to make your voice heard.
I love the game, whether magic becomes battle cruiser magic or not, i still have my cubes and seriously i just roll with the format, i tend to try to build against the current dominant deck, so no there is no monetary interests when i say i do not support bans based on ban mania
I would encourage wotc to look at actual numbers before pulling the trigger on bans. Bannings from ban mania only reduces their credibility as well as the health of the game.
I support their bannings, in so far as the current state of the meta... tho i would say it would take awhile before we can say hojaak is absolutely fine... again data.
One thing i like, recently, with wotc's strategy is the more generous printing of hate cards. There should be more of these, to the point that the cards's monetory value is minimal as these are the safety valves of the format and should be readily accessible
We have enough variance. The London Mull isn't here for laughs.
Don't get me started on that terrible, terrible mulligan rule.
Wizards can't really (in good faith) surgically cut out that many cards in the meta right now. What they should have done from the beginning is have no card on the ban list. Then they could ban problem cards as they arise. Maybe this would scare away too many players? But the problem is that many cards were pre banned with preconceived notions from formats much different than Modern. As we can see, there were mistakes, like Sword of the Meek being banned. Now that Wizards didn't DO that, we have to live with the consequences. All in all, Modern is still a very solid format. (even if I personally hate it the most right now)
*It would be sweet to me if they unleashed KCI to try to stop the Hogaak menace. Then every sideboard would have 7 artifact cards and 8 graveyard cards. I could finally run some Devoted Devastation or even switch it to Company then without fearing a single sideboard card.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Now is a great time to quit magic actually. If one hates the format so much, it is a good time to cash out. If you really feel the format/game has sunk to some irreparable level cashing out and making your voice heard by not buying in is your best way to make your voice heard.
No it's not. Essentially none of the money I have spent on the game has been to Wizards. It has all been to third party, individual sellers; usually on eBay and TCG Player. Selling them would either be in bulk to an LGS with any large ticket items individually sold on eBay again. Who exactly is hearing that voice? It's just a bunch of trades and transactions between players for product already purchased from WOTC at some point.
I love the game, whether magic becomes battle cruiser magic or not, i still have my cubes and seriously i just roll with the format
Me too. Which is why I stick with it, even though it's awful. But it also means I have spent most of my efforts elsewhere. Namely Commander and D&D.
I would encourage wotc to look at actual numbers before pulling the trigger on bans. Bannings from ban mania only reduces their credibility as well as the health of the game.
Banmania has been in effect ever since they pulled the rug out on Twin, and has been reaffirmed multiple times due to the chaos of KLD Standard. It seems like they are almost purposely going out of their way to not ban things in Modern (and instead allow this ***** show of a format devolve into grave yard abuse and prison decks) in order to avoid the stigma they received after Twin and their multitude of sweeping Standard bans in 2017 and 2018.
And to top it all off, they piss on our legs and tell us it's raining by posting purposely-misleading decklist results of a non-representative meta for a format that doesn't exist in paper.
Onr thing i like recently with wotc's strategy is the more generous printing of hate cards. There should be more of these, to the point that the cards's monetory value is minimal as these are the safety valves of the format and should be readily accessible
I believed that too. All the way up until Teferi, Time Raveler and Narset, Parter of Veils. Both of those cards are abundantly obnoxious and terrible design mistakes. They do nothing but make gameplay worse. Throw in Karn, The Great Creator as well, as his goal is to literally lock players out of playing the game. These are all absolutely awful cards that create nothing but feelbad moments.
hmm how did u manage to register? i tried many times and it doesnt letme
I just registered by clicking on it and then going to my email to finish it. Worked fine for me.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I miss the days when the meta would stew for months , not just days before everyone start talking about bans.
What days? I'll admit I started up in Modern in late 2012 and thus missed the first year or so of the format, but since I've started playing Modern there was basically no time when people didn't jump pretty quickly onto the ban(d)wagon.
At this point, I think that 'option 2' thing people are talking about might mean we just need to split Modern into two formats. One would have a stricter banned list and more rigidly adhere to things like being a 'turn 4' format and balancing within the context of it's own metagame created by that stricter base banned list, while the other would be built off the current format and likely drop some things currently on the banned list off of it as long as the metagame still works and no one deck becomes dominant and there remains some interaction and options possibilities and it isn't just decks racing to finish first.
The one based on the current modern with some unbans and bans would remain called 'Modern', and the new format would have a different name, for now, I'll call it Future.
Future could actually have some cards legal in it that aren't legal in the new modern, because they wouldn't do the same things in both formats without supporting cards. For instance, I could see Manamorphose being potentially fine in some versions of a 'Future' metagame, but horrifically broken in this alternate 'Modern' metagame and needing to be banned in it due to giving a little too much to spells matter decks.
As for where I might start with Future's banned list... I wanna do it for fun, putting it in a spoiler partly to keep people from taking it too seriously, as it would have major issues even existing, due to issues like competition for attention from wizards and players with Modern, causing fears of abandonment of Modern by players, etc.:
Some moons and things that can become basic land hate to minimize color based hate against mana bases in sideboards and encourage more allowance of of various color decks, including in some ways, more mono-color decks, although banning the moons goes against that. Iona got thrown in for similar reasons to the basic land hate on the off-chance that it gets cheated out somehow.
The 10 'fetchlands', this is partially to help differentiate the formats, and partially to increase the effective cost of going heavily multi-color or playing with landfall triggers or the like as part of reigning in on 'free' stuff in the new format.
Removing some of the more flexible/powerful/easy can't be countered stuff, especially more re-useable or mass-effect ones that can make counterspells dead in the hand or fully lock out counterspell based strategies if played. Note that some can't be countered stuff remains, even some single use flexible ones, or some ones with higher mana costs like some of the split-second stuff. It's more along the lines of stuff like Abrupt Decay, Cavern of Souls, or more normally costed sweepers with can't be countered tagged on that get hit, so that decks that defend their strategies with counterspells can exist comfortably in the format.
Some random stuff that is just too strong for various reasons, at least in the situations where it would see play. Gifts isn't there so much as too strong, but more as a color pie violator in the main way it actually sees play (which is choosing less than 4 cards so they all go in the graveyard) and I couldn't think of where else to put it on this list, but it just feels wrong to me on a visceral level, and since this list is just for fun...
The infect mechanic is inherently problematic, I'm probably being overly safe here, I've hit basically anything with anything vaguely resembling evasion or relative low cost and lack of vulnerability, and some extras for various reasons. I seriously considered just saying to ban everything with infect on it, but I don't honestly think it is easy to break things like, say, Blightwidow, even if I consider it a 4/4 with reach, wither, and making players unable to heal once they are hit by it for the rest of the game. Some others could probably come off the list, but I am allowing myself to be overly quick and vicious with a despised mechanic, since I'm just doing this quick and for fun.
Don't take all this too seriously. And I wouldn't want this format at the _cost_ of modern. I also kinda think that a few cards would be needed to round out the format, including something to replace path to exile at 2 cmc, something like: Light's Conversion1W Instant
Exile target creature, it's owner gains life equal to it's converted mana cost.
And something to replace lighting bolt. Chanted FlameR Sorcery
Deal 3 damage to any target.
And something I think Modern needs as well if it can't just get Counterspell. Mana SuppressionUU Instant
Counter target spell if it is converted mana cost 4 or less.
I think that would clean up some empty spots in the format to smooth out the potential metagame created by this oppressive banned list.
I think this format would need a lot of testing and refinement once established, but part of the aim is to make sure more normal deck types aren't able to be hated out of the format and have all their lines of play eliminated by an easy hate card of a weird deck, keep the format from becoming faster than a 'turn 4 format'. Pre-turn-4 wins should be possible, but they should happen in less than 20% of combo deck wins against aggro, and be less than 10% of combo deck wins against control, and should be less than 5% of aggro wins, and there should generally be counter-play options, with the fastest aggro decks never being able to outrace most of the good combo decks if both decks got god hands, and even a god-hand of a combo deck should never be able to win through an above average hand of a control deck pre-turn 4. There should also be the objective of ensuring a metagame including about the following deck percentages:
Decks that are 'strong' against something, or 'weak' against something in the top tiers is generally a 30:70 win ratio at worst, but tends to be closer to 35:65 or 40:60.
For the top tier:
At least 10% of the format 'true' draw-go control that is strong against combo and weak against aggro. At least 10% of the format 'true' low cmc creature based aggro that relies on synergy and not things closer to combo, tempo, or midrange or cheating things out or whatnot, which is strong against the above noted 'true' control, but weak against faster combo, and generally aims for turn 4-5 wins, but has a very small chance of winning around turn 3 with very good hands and the opponent not playing any real disruption/removal, but such would happen far less often than it would for something like a combo deck. At least 10% 'true' combo decks that involve relatively little protection or counter-play, and mostly are just trying to race to the win, which are too vulnerable to disruption to have good odds against a 'true' control deck, but against a 'true' aggro deck it wins by being usually faster and the aggro deck lacking much disruption to reliably answer it as reliably early on like control does, it is the most likely thing in the format to win before turn 4, but only by going all out into the combo win no significant counter-play vs. opponents and when the opponent isn't counter-playing much, like against an aggro deck or a fellow combo deck of this sort, most of it's wins should be turn 4-5 though, after playing through some disruption successfully via redundancy or something even if one or two parts of the combo was dealt with. Thus these three archetypes would create a rock-paper-scissors setup in the upper tiers of the format.
At least some of each color and some of colorless in the top tier, even if not in the form of mono-color or mono-colorless decks, and no leaning towards a certain color excessively, no having more than 50$ of top tier decks include one specific color, like, say, having half the top tier decks in the format include red, or half the top their decks in the format include blue.
There should be mono-color decks in the top two tiers for every color, as well as a colorless. For the top tier, there should be at least one mono-color deck, and at least one multi-color deck, but a pure colorless isn't required.
There should be in the top two tiers at least one deck of each of the following archetypes: Tempo (distinct from midrange), Midrange (distinct from tempo), Tribal (may be in the form of the 'true' aggro decks previously noted, but doesn't have to be), green ramp (distinct from any possible Tron style colorless type ramp), reanimation, spells matter (things like young pyromancer, storm, or prowess type stuff), disruptive combo (combo with control-ish elements along the lines of those from tempo or midrange decks to delay the opponent and/or protect the combo from some degree of disruption), mill (win by opponent running out of cards), burn (win by dealing direct damage rather than combat damage to an opponent primarily with individual burn spells, rather than more combo-like elements of repeatable trigger direct damaging permanents or from combo-ish elements of things like some versions of storm type stuff). Land destruction never reaches past tier 2, nor do harsher forms of prison decks, especially any that require removing non-creature artifacts or enchantments to slip through, so they can't hate any sorts of mono-color true aggro decks out of the format.
Average win turns should be closer to 5-6, turn 4 wins are the 'fast' ones, while turn 7+ tends to be reserved for more control type decks or grindy back-and-forth fairer matchups between opposing aggro-control (midrange or tempo) decks. Because of this 5-6 cmc cards are solidly playable in control as options for win-cons, 4 cmc cards are seen in at least some 'true' aggro decks among the top 2 tiers, even if not necessarily the top tier (which might top out at 3 cmc or maybe even 2 cmc cards). No single deck takes more than 9% of the meta share, top tier decks tend to be in the 3-8% of meta-share, while tier 2 tends to be around 2-1% of the meta share with noticeably worse win-rates than the top tier decks. No color takes up less than 4% of the top two tiers meta share (when including multi-color decks when counting what includes that color).
There are no combo deck that can win turn 1 (before the opponent has had a chance to play lands normally on the draw), no matter how lucky or god-hand they are. Anything must-answer in combo decks is 1 cmc higher than control cards commonly found in top tier control, tempo, and midrange main-boards (not just side-boards) that answers it, so those on the draw can still win through fast combo when it draws a working hand without waiting for sideboards.
New cards of various types may have to be printed to pull all this off, including not as powerful replacements for some things that might need to get banned. Some might have to enter the format urgently, so there should be a way for cards to enter the format besides standard that sees printings at least once a year, like a once-per-year printing of a Modern/Future Horizons type set, one that can be more easily tweaked with less concern for messing up standard plans to include emergency printings to replace banned cards with nerfed versions or add specific types of cards to help fill in blank spots in the metagame or whatnot.
Either the rules that govern Modern matter, or they do not. Based on the negative reaction to bans over the past years, WOTC has decided that when it comes to Modern, rules simply don't matter anymore.
The turn 4 rule doesn't exist and battle of sideboard is a made-up thing to get rid of GGT (which itself was NEVER THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, but instead was printing RIDICULOUSLY POWERFUL new enablers and payoffs, and then FFS, they had to go and add Creeping Chill. I'd rather play against GGT than Creeping Chill any ******* day.).
Your 'Future' list of controls is exactly why while I personally feel Wizards is doing it wrong, the 'Path 1' is the only one that makes sense. Slippery slopes and all that.
In the end, I'm more and more sure that the real rule which govern's Modern is 'is there high enough public outcry to do something'?
I believe the last 3 years prove that they know that was a mistake, it's the only deck that actually died.
Amulet (nerfed due to clips of turn 2 insanity) still around and viable.
Dredge - laughs in Creeping Chill.
Infect - still fine.
Storm - still fine.
KCI - legit too good, with a comical win rate, but it was only banned once SCG grinders (and vocal twitter users that they are) decided to play it instead of the tier 2 stuff they prefer. I believe Nass had an 80% win rate at one point?
Just watch the trends driven by the twitter/SCG/cfb types and you'll have a decent idea of what's going to get hit.
Wizards has even lifted common arguments in their announcement straight up from tweets by those people.
It's not about data and competitive integrity, how could it be when they don't understand the format?
As these forums drift to the internet graveyard, I would like to share a few parting thoughts. I joined this website nearly a decade ago, when Modern was announced. I spent a lot of time reading these forums, and little bit of time posting on these forums. I played through all the bannings and unbannings, each and every one, and I have to say that Modern is fine. It was always fine and it will always be fine. Formats don't last for ten years if they aren't fine. That Origins forward format that no one remembers? Gone. Didn't even last a year. Modern has the ability to correct itself and when it doesn't, Wizards takes action. These forums, at one place, were a veritable hive of real discussion. And to those people, I say;
Modern is fine, and will be fine.
This website is a veritable treasure trove of deck lists, deck musings, deck theory, and it's all nicely categorized for anyone who wanted to seek this information. Mad respect to the people who contributed in a meaningful and the organizers who made the meaningful things easy to find. My hat is off to all of your collective hard work for the past ten years. Sheridan is a goddamn treasure, and his writings here and on modern nexus are real gems in a sea of low effort deck list 'articles' by people who play the game for a living. I have nothing but respect for you Sheridan. You do the good work.
However, the people on these forums, idSurge and cfusionpm and the other handful of the rest of them that drive their agenda down peoples throats and parrot the same tired lines with their free time for the better part of the past ten years saying that Modern is awful and stifling meaningful discussion; You guys won't be missed. You've wasted all of your time, and by extensions a lot of our time with your regurgitated, entitled, petulant crap. The amount of pure garbage that the group of you used to domineer conversations that could have otherwise been productive is staggering, to say the least. Whatever platform you find yourselves on after this ship sinks, know that the lot of you are at least in part responsible for driving participation down and costing the website views purely to satiate your internet egos.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
It's really amazing how users can complain about having to read posts they don't like yet refuse to simply use the ignore function.
Yep. I have chosen to not ever use the ignore function because nobody has bothered me all that much. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion (especially when that opinion coincides with mine *evil laugh)
I spent a LOT of time here on this site, much more than any other site. There was a time where I admittedly spammed as much as I could to get my post count up. I wanted to feel important, lol. (yes, it is pretty immature of me) Nowadays, I haven't been super upset with the Ban decisions as much as I have for the Unban decisions. I actually really don't enjoy the current meta, which I feel is 10 hate cards vs. my busted deck in a London Mulligan rule yard.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
It's really amazing how users can complain about having to read posts they don't like yet refuse to simply use the ignore function.
Yeah. It's equally amazing how people choose to invalidate the opinions of others, just because they aren't always positive or in lock-step with the group-think. And that, rather than simply ignore those dissenting opinions, these masochists seem to continually choose to provoke people which don't want to have the conversations with them anyway. It's a strange cycle for sure. The petty and childish comments know no bounds, and several people could definitely benefit from choosing to use the ignore button, instead of choosing to personally attack other users.
Earthbound, great post. Problem is that those people won't go away. They are just here to degrade the quality of the forums. And they are so vocal that nobody else can speak about nothing. It's all them and "Modern is bad". That's why they will keep getting banned over and over again.
Consider us the Faithless Looting of the forum then. Just ignore all the misery and pretend to tell yourself that everything is fine. You already do that with Modern itself.
I dont know what the drama is anyway? I've made a concerted effort to indicate that objectively, especially when Hogaak didnt wipe out the last weekend, that Modern is OBJECTIVELY fine.
My 'hill to die on' is simply that the ban list is inconsistent, and from a consistency point of view, the logic of the ban list is not applied in an objective manner.
Sure, I had a good long period of complaining about Twin, but we are all passed that at this point are we not? I mean imagine 'knowing' that Twin should be banned in 2019? Thats like thinking SFM would rule the format, in 2019!
1) Keep the discussions on the cards and the format, and DO NOT direct your criticisms at the users or WOTC. There are rules against Trolling, Flaming, and blatant format bashing. If you have problems with a users post(s), then report it rather than trying to address it yourself. No matter how good your intentions, you aren't making the situation any better.
2) The forum isn't shutting down, it was purchased by Magic Find and is operating as normal until they decide to do something with it as per the most recent announcement. Stay on topic, as it's just spam otherwise.
I'll just say this Torpf. I've been personally attacked (as far as being attacked online on a forum goes lol) far more than most, and I've been the one eating the 'warnings'. Hell, one of the admin's on this site even has me blocked on Twitter and I've never spoken to them in my life.
The double standard's and bias is out of control around here, and thats why I've had to just put several people on ignore because they get away with it, and I never do.
Calling me out specifically like Earthbound does, when I dont think I've ever even conversed with him/her, and you just let people like gkourou snipe from the sideline over and over and people like Colt spout absolute NONSENSE for years with no repercussions?
Spirits
According to several people, this is supposed to be "healthy" except for one deck. Your mileage may vary.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I love the game, whether magic becomes battle cruiser magic or not, i still have my cubes and seriously i just roll with the format, i tend to try to build against the current dominant deck, so no there is no monetary interests when i say i do not support bans based on ban mania
I would encourage wotc to look at actual numbers before pulling the trigger on bans. Bannings from ban mania only reduces their credibility as well as the health of the game.
I support their bannings, in so far as the current state of the meta... tho i would say it would take awhile before we can say hojaak is absolutely fine... again data.
One thing i like, recently, with wotc's strategy is the more generous printing of hate cards. There should be more of these, to the point that the cards's monetory value is minimal as these are the safety valves of the format and should be readily accessible
Reality is but a perception of your being --
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881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
Don't get me started on that terrible, terrible mulligan rule.
Wizards can't really (in good faith) surgically cut out that many cards in the meta right now. What they should have done from the beginning is have no card on the ban list. Then they could ban problem cards as they arise. Maybe this would scare away too many players? But the problem is that many cards were pre banned with preconceived notions from formats much different than Modern. As we can see, there were mistakes, like Sword of the Meek being banned. Now that Wizards didn't DO that, we have to live with the consequences. All in all, Modern is still a very solid format. (even if I personally hate it the most right now)
*It would be sweet to me if they unleashed KCI to try to stop the Hogaak menace. Then every sideboard would have 7 artifact cards and 8 graveyard cards. I could finally run some Devoted Devastation or even switch it to Company then without fearing a single sideboard card.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)No it's not. Essentially none of the money I have spent on the game has been to Wizards. It has all been to third party, individual sellers; usually on eBay and TCG Player. Selling them would either be in bulk to an LGS with any large ticket items individually sold on eBay again. Who exactly is hearing that voice? It's just a bunch of trades and transactions between players for product already purchased from WOTC at some point.
Me too. Which is why I stick with it, even though it's awful. But it also means I have spent most of my efforts elsewhere. Namely Commander and D&D.
Banmania has been in effect ever since they pulled the rug out on Twin, and has been reaffirmed multiple times due to the chaos of KLD Standard. It seems like they are almost purposely going out of their way to not ban things in Modern (and instead allow this ***** show of a format devolve into grave yard abuse and prison decks) in order to avoid the stigma they received after Twin and their multitude of sweeping Standard bans in 2017 and 2018.
And to top it all off, they piss on our legs and tell us it's raining by posting purposely-misleading decklist results of a non-representative meta for a format that doesn't exist in paper.
I believed that too. All the way up until Teferi, Time Raveler and Narset, Parter of Veils. Both of those cards are abundantly obnoxious and terrible design mistakes. They do nothing but make gameplay worse. Throw in Karn, The Great Creator as well, as his goal is to literally lock players out of playing the game. These are all absolutely awful cards that create nothing but feelbad moments.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | URPhoenixUR | UWMiraclesUW |GBRJundGBR | UBFaeriesUB | UBWAd NauseumUBW |GBRWBlueless ShadowGBRW |
MTGA
UBRGrixis ControlUBR | UTempoU
I just registered by clicking on it and then going to my email to finish it. Worked fine for me.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)which step of the registration are you stuck on? Anyway, I used an email and it went smoothly.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
The one based on the current modern with some unbans and bans would remain called 'Modern', and the new format would have a different name, for now, I'll call it Future.
Future could actually have some cards legal in it that aren't legal in the new modern, because they wouldn't do the same things in both formats without supporting cards. For instance, I could see Manamorphose being potentially fine in some versions of a 'Future' metagame, but horrifically broken in this alternate 'Modern' metagame and needing to be banned in it due to giving a little too much to spells matter decks.
As for where I might start with Future's banned list... I wanna do it for fun, putting it in a spoiler partly to keep people from taking it too seriously, as it would have major issues even existing, due to issues like competition for attention from wizards and players with Modern, causing fears of abandonment of Modern by players, etc.:
That is the current Modern banned list.
Some phyrexian mana and 0 mana or free-ish stuff.
Some moons and things that can become basic land hate to minimize color based hate against mana bases in sideboards and encourage more allowance of of various color decks, including in some ways, more mono-color decks, although banning the moons goes against that. Iona got thrown in for similar reasons to the basic land hate on the off-chance that it gets cheated out somehow.
The 10 'fetchlands', this is partially to help differentiate the formats, and partially to increase the effective cost of going heavily multi-color or playing with landfall triggers or the like as part of reigning in on 'free' stuff in the new format.
Removing some of the more flexible/powerful/easy can't be countered stuff, especially more re-useable or mass-effect ones that can make counterspells dead in the hand or fully lock out counterspell based strategies if played. Note that some can't be countered stuff remains, even some single use flexible ones, or some ones with higher mana costs like some of the split-second stuff. It's more along the lines of stuff like Abrupt Decay, Cavern of Souls, or more normally costed sweepers with can't be countered tagged on that get hit, so that decks that defend their strategies with counterspells can exist comfortably in the format.
Some of the stronger hate for specific converted mana costs to prevent the hating out of entire hands or bulks of decks too easily.
Some random stuff that is just too strong for various reasons, at least in the situations where it would see play. Gifts isn't there so much as too strong, but more as a color pie violator in the main way it actually sees play (which is choosing less than 4 cards so they all go in the graveyard) and I couldn't think of where else to put it on this list, but it just feels wrong to me on a visceral level, and since this list is just for fun...
No, it shouldn't be that easy to ignore sideboards against you.
The infect mechanic is inherently problematic, I'm probably being overly safe here, I've hit basically anything with anything vaguely resembling evasion or relative low cost and lack of vulnerability, and some extras for various reasons. I seriously considered just saying to ban everything with infect on it, but I don't honestly think it is easy to break things like, say, Blightwidow, even if I consider it a 4/4 with reach, wither, and making players unable to heal once they are hit by it for the rest of the game. Some others could probably come off the list, but I am allowing myself to be overly quick and vicious with a despised mechanic, since I'm just doing this quick and for fun.
Don't take all this too seriously. And I wouldn't want this format at the _cost_ of modern. I also kinda think that a few cards would be needed to round out the format, including something to replace path to exile at 2 cmc, something like:
Light's Conversion 1W
Instant
Exile target creature, it's owner gains life equal to it's converted mana cost.
And something to replace lighting bolt.
Chanted Flame R
Sorcery
Deal 3 damage to any target.
And something I think Modern needs as well if it can't just get Counterspell.
Mana Suppression UU
Instant
Counter target spell if it is converted mana cost 4 or less.
I think that would clean up some empty spots in the format to smooth out the potential metagame created by this oppressive banned list.
I think this format would need a lot of testing and refinement once established, but part of the aim is to make sure more normal deck types aren't able to be hated out of the format and have all their lines of play eliminated by an easy hate card of a weird deck, keep the format from becoming faster than a 'turn 4 format'. Pre-turn-4 wins should be possible, but they should happen in less than 20% of combo deck wins against aggro, and be less than 10% of combo deck wins against control, and should be less than 5% of aggro wins, and there should generally be counter-play options, with the fastest aggro decks never being able to outrace most of the good combo decks if both decks got god hands, and even a god-hand of a combo deck should never be able to win through an above average hand of a control deck pre-turn 4. There should also be the objective of ensuring a metagame including about the following deck percentages:
Decks that are 'strong' against something, or 'weak' against something in the top tiers is generally a 30:70 win ratio at worst, but tends to be closer to 35:65 or 40:60.
For the top tier:
At least 10% of the format 'true' draw-go control that is strong against combo and weak against aggro. At least 10% of the format 'true' low cmc creature based aggro that relies on synergy and not things closer to combo, tempo, or midrange or cheating things out or whatnot, which is strong against the above noted 'true' control, but weak against faster combo, and generally aims for turn 4-5 wins, but has a very small chance of winning around turn 3 with very good hands and the opponent not playing any real disruption/removal, but such would happen far less often than it would for something like a combo deck. At least 10% 'true' combo decks that involve relatively little protection or counter-play, and mostly are just trying to race to the win, which are too vulnerable to disruption to have good odds against a 'true' control deck, but against a 'true' aggro deck it wins by being usually faster and the aggro deck lacking much disruption to reliably answer it as reliably early on like control does, it is the most likely thing in the format to win before turn 4, but only by going all out into the combo win no significant counter-play vs. opponents and when the opponent isn't counter-playing much, like against an aggro deck or a fellow combo deck of this sort, most of it's wins should be turn 4-5 though, after playing through some disruption successfully via redundancy or something even if one or two parts of the combo was dealt with. Thus these three archetypes would create a rock-paper-scissors setup in the upper tiers of the format.
At least some of each color and some of colorless in the top tier, even if not in the form of mono-color or mono-colorless decks, and no leaning towards a certain color excessively, no having more than 50$ of top tier decks include one specific color, like, say, having half the top tier decks in the format include red, or half the top their decks in the format include blue.
There should be mono-color decks in the top two tiers for every color, as well as a colorless. For the top tier, there should be at least one mono-color deck, and at least one multi-color deck, but a pure colorless isn't required.
There should be in the top two tiers at least one deck of each of the following archetypes: Tempo (distinct from midrange), Midrange (distinct from tempo), Tribal (may be in the form of the 'true' aggro decks previously noted, but doesn't have to be), green ramp (distinct from any possible Tron style colorless type ramp), reanimation, spells matter (things like young pyromancer, storm, or prowess type stuff), disruptive combo (combo with control-ish elements along the lines of those from tempo or midrange decks to delay the opponent and/or protect the combo from some degree of disruption), mill (win by opponent running out of cards), burn (win by dealing direct damage rather than combat damage to an opponent primarily with individual burn spells, rather than more combo-like elements of repeatable trigger direct damaging permanents or from combo-ish elements of things like some versions of storm type stuff). Land destruction never reaches past tier 2, nor do harsher forms of prison decks, especially any that require removing non-creature artifacts or enchantments to slip through, so they can't hate any sorts of mono-color true aggro decks out of the format.
Average win turns should be closer to 5-6, turn 4 wins are the 'fast' ones, while turn 7+ tends to be reserved for more control type decks or grindy back-and-forth fairer matchups between opposing aggro-control (midrange or tempo) decks. Because of this 5-6 cmc cards are solidly playable in control as options for win-cons, 4 cmc cards are seen in at least some 'true' aggro decks among the top 2 tiers, even if not necessarily the top tier (which might top out at 3 cmc or maybe even 2 cmc cards). No single deck takes more than 9% of the meta share, top tier decks tend to be in the 3-8% of meta-share, while tier 2 tends to be around 2-1% of the meta share with noticeably worse win-rates than the top tier decks. No color takes up less than 4% of the top two tiers meta share (when including multi-color decks when counting what includes that color).
There are no combo deck that can win turn 1 (before the opponent has had a chance to play lands normally on the draw), no matter how lucky or god-hand they are. Anything must-answer in combo decks is 1 cmc higher than control cards commonly found in top tier control, tempo, and midrange main-boards (not just side-boards) that answers it, so those on the draw can still win through fast combo when it draws a working hand without waiting for sideboards.
New cards of various types may have to be printed to pull all this off, including not as powerful replacements for some things that might need to get banned. Some might have to enter the format urgently, so there should be a way for cards to enter the format besides standard that sees printings at least once a year, like a once-per-year printing of a Modern/Future Horizons type set, one that can be more easily tweaked with less concern for messing up standard plans to include emergency printings to replace banned cards with nerfed versions or add specific types of cards to help fill in blank spots in the metagame or whatnot.
The turn 4 rule doesn't exist and battle of sideboard is a made-up thing to get rid of GGT (which itself was NEVER THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, but instead was printing RIDICULOUSLY POWERFUL new enablers and payoffs, and then FFS, they had to go and add Creeping Chill. I'd rather play against GGT than Creeping Chill any ******* day.).
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
In the end, I'm more and more sure that the real rule which govern's Modern is 'is there high enough public outcry to do something'?
Spirits
I guess that's better than "we need to needlessly ruin people's decks to shake up the PT"?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Amulet (nerfed due to clips of turn 2 insanity) still around and viable.
Dredge - laughs in Creeping Chill.
Infect - still fine.
Storm - still fine.
KCI - legit too good, with a comical win rate, but it was only banned once SCG grinders (and vocal twitter users that they are) decided to play it instead of the tier 2 stuff they prefer. I believe Nass had an 80% win rate at one point?
Just watch the trends driven by the twitter/SCG/cfb types and you'll have a decent idea of what's going to get hit.
Wizards has even lifted common arguments in their announcement straight up from tweets by those people.
It's not about data and competitive integrity, how could it be when they don't understand the format?
Spirits
Modern is fine, and will be fine.
This website is a veritable treasure trove of deck lists, deck musings, deck theory, and it's all nicely categorized for anyone who wanted to seek this information. Mad respect to the people who contributed in a meaningful and the organizers who made the meaningful things easy to find. My hat is off to all of your collective hard work for the past ten years. Sheridan is a goddamn treasure, and his writings here and on modern nexus are real gems in a sea of low effort deck list 'articles' by people who play the game for a living. I have nothing but respect for you Sheridan. You do the good work.
However, the people on these forums, idSurge and cfusionpm and the other handful of the rest of them that drive their agenda down peoples throats and parrot the same tired lines with their free time for the better part of the past ten years saying that Modern is awful and stifling meaningful discussion; You guys won't be missed. You've wasted all of your time, and by extensions a lot of our time with your regurgitated, entitled, petulant crap. The amount of pure garbage that the group of you used to domineer conversations that could have otherwise been productive is staggering, to say the least. Whatever platform you find yourselves on after this ship sinks, know that the lot of you are at least in part responsible for driving participation down and costing the website views purely to satiate your internet egos.
MTGSalvation, goodnight. Sleep well.
Yep. I have chosen to not ever use the ignore function because nobody has bothered me all that much. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion (especially when that opinion coincides with mine *evil laugh)
I spent a LOT of time here on this site, much more than any other site. There was a time where I admittedly spammed as much as I could to get my post count up. I wanted to feel important, lol. (yes, it is pretty immature of me) Nowadays, I haven't been super upset with the Ban decisions as much as I have for the Unban decisions. I actually really don't enjoy the current meta, which I feel is 10 hate cards vs. my busted deck in a London Mulligan rule yard.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yeah. It's equally amazing how people choose to invalidate the opinions of others, just because they aren't always positive or in lock-step with the group-think. And that, rather than simply ignore those dissenting opinions, these masochists seem to continually choose to provoke people which don't want to have the conversations with them anyway. It's a strange cycle for sure. The petty and childish comments know no bounds, and several people could definitely benefit from choosing to use the ignore button, instead of choosing to personally attack other users.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Spirits
Consider us the Faithless Looting of the forum then. Just ignore all the misery and pretend to tell yourself that everything is fine. You already do that with Modern itself.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
My 'hill to die on' is simply that the ban list is inconsistent, and from a consistency point of view, the logic of the ban list is not applied in an objective manner.
Sure, I had a good long period of complaining about Twin, but we are all passed that at this point are we not? I mean imagine 'knowing' that Twin should be banned in 2019? Thats like thinking SFM would rule the format, in 2019!
Spirits
1) Keep the discussions on the cards and the format, and DO NOT direct your criticisms at the users or WOTC. There are rules against Trolling, Flaming, and blatant format bashing. If you have problems with a users post(s), then report it rather than trying to address it yourself. No matter how good your intentions, you aren't making the situation any better.
2) The forum isn't shutting down, it was purchased by Magic Find and is operating as normal until they decide to do something with it as per the most recent announcement. Stay on topic, as it's just spam otherwise.
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
The double standard's and bias is out of control around here, and thats why I've had to just put several people on ignore because they get away with it, and I never do.
Calling me out specifically like Earthbound does, when I dont think I've ever even conversed with him/her, and you just let people like gkourou snipe from the sideline over and over and people like Colt spout absolute NONSENSE for years with no repercussions?
Its unfair, and needed to be said.
Spirits