Can't comment much because haven't encountered the Allosaurus deck here in our store.
However, by reading the comments here.. glad that my main modern deck has 8 discard in the main. The allosaurus combo seems fast, and will happen before turn 4 unless disrupted right away.
I'm in a similar boat as you. Haven't had a chance to see the deck in the wild, but my UW Spirits has a lot of tools to handle that deck. I'm going to a modern tournament this afternoon, but something tells me that this deck isn't nearly as popular in paper as it is on MTGO.
Unless you're playing Thoughtseize or Spell Pierce and you're on the play, you can't beat the Neoform combo. It might lose to itself, but you're not going to beat it with Spell Queller.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Unless you're playing Thoughtseize or Spell Pierce and you're on the play, you can't beat the Neoform combo. It might lose to itself, but you're not going to beat it with Spell Queller.
I was more referring to Mausoleum Wanderer and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, which add additional mana demands to slow the combo down long enough for Queller to be effective. Redundant fast mana can with through those two, of course, but the same can be said for discard and extra copies of other combo pieces.
Unless you're playing Thoughtseize or Spell Pierce and you're on the play, you can't beat the Neoform combo. It might lose to itself, but you're not going to beat it with Spell Queller.
Heck, even Mindbreak Trap can be devastating against that deck, countering the first Shoal is really rough for that deck.
On the more wonky side of the spectrum, there is Runeflare Trap which is (basically) an instant win.
So, yeah, there are cards which interact with that deck on Turn 0, the question is, how playable those are and especially the shell you can play them in.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I've been running some goldfishes with a recent 5-0 League list (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1871192#paper) to try and establish a goldfish baseline for T1, T2, or T3 wins. I'm using the London Mulligan rule. A Reddit poster also did their own N=100 analysis with the Vancouver Mulligan rule and a different list (they didn't specify the list) to calculate T1 and T2 wins. It's not perfect data, but both goldfish sets help us estimate a baseline. The Reddit user found a T1 win in 11% of games and a T2 win in 48% of games. I'm currently at N=50 goldfishes, all on the play, and have found a T1 win of 8% and a T2 win of 16%. I've added T3 wins at 36% for a total pre-T4 win rate of 60% in the current N=50 sample. Note this only represents goldfish rates, so the true pre-T4 win rate will almost necessarily be lower once interaction is added. But it is helpful to see a baseline.
I'll add in N=50 games on the draw to get the sample to N=100 and then do some confidence interval calculations, increasing N if needed depending on how wide the intervals look.
Running bad, narrow cards to fight a horrible, high-variance deck that you might never even see is just asking to feel bad playing Modern.
I think Kathal was referring to Conley Wood's narset control deck naming shoal an commandeer. That decks is such a blast and just wrecks neoform! It seems pretty good against the field too.
About goldfished pre turn 4 wins: it's quite impressive so far. Curious to know the difference on the draw (should even increase thanks to the card drawn).
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Decks played: Modern:
0 Affinity;
URG Delver
URGW Countercats
(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
I think Kathal was referring to Conley Wood's narset control deck naming shoal an commandeer. That decks is such a blast and just wrecks neoform! It seems pretty good against the field too.
About goldfished pre turn 4 wins: it's quite impressive so far. Curious to know the difference on the draw (should even increase thanks to the card drawn).
I wanted to primarily point out, that there IS Turn 0 interaction in modern which can deal with that deck, should it rise in a metagame share. Furthermore, some of those cards saw a lot of play in different time periods, Snapback in the beginning (Blazing Shoal Infect hated that card so much), Disrupting Shoal also had several time periods, where it saw a lot of play, especially back in RUG Delver days (after the Shackles builds btw).
Hence, there were and will be metagames where "trash cards, which are super narrow" are suddenly REALLY good. Just take a look at Surgical Extraction, back in 2015 it would have been idiotic to run that card at all, let alone in the main deck!
Meta changes, decks evolve, those cards can come back (or not), same is true with other super narrow and "garbage" cards
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I really don't think it's acceptable for a deck to win because turn 1 you didn't have a thoughtseize or counter.
I'm not very interested if the deck becomes tier 1 or not, just kill it, there is absolutely nothing for modern to gain from such horrible, feel bad games like that.
Unless you're playing Thoughtseize or Spell Pierce and you're on the play, you can't beat the Neoform combo. It might lose to itself, but you're not going to beat it with Spell Queller.
Heck, even Mindbreak Trap can be devastating against that deck, countering the first Shoal is really rough for that deck.
On the more wonky side of the spectrum, there is Runeflare Trap which is (basically) an instant win.
So, yeah, there are cards which interact with that deck on Turn 0, the question is, how playable those are and especially the shell you can play them in.
Greetings,
Kathal
I mean, I play 4x Disrupting Shoal in RUG Delver. I just didn't even mention it because no one plays or likes* that card. Among popularly-played cards, it's discard or a 1 mana soft counter or bust, I think.
*They howl about how bad the card disadvantage is, and how you can't counter stuff like Gurmag Angler very easily. Yes. But the card disadvantage doesn't matter if you're dead and this is the thing that stops the thing that kills you. And 35/50 top cards in Modern, ie 70%, cost either 1 or 2 mana, and several of the ones that don't require 1 or 2 mana cards to set them up (Karn, Phoenix, etc), and thus are vulnerable to Disrupting Shoal. It's bad against decks that grind, but it counters so much of the format, especially now, that I think it's never been better. Obviously I'm super biased here.
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
You have G-Tron, and then you have World Creator and a sideboard package.
Fine upgrade, but take out 4 main deck cards, and its nothing but G-Tron that we have endured since Newlamog.
It's pretty damn good. My teammate for Team Trios today had that version and it was pretty gassy.
I read here that GKourou is interested in Tron now and after seeing it in action Friday a bit and today, I am down as well. I am going to the dark side! (if I can muster enough money up, freaking Mycosynth Lattice...$30 card)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
You have G-Tron, and then you have World Creator and a sideboard package.
Fine upgrade, but take out 4 main deck cards, and its nothing but G-Tron that we have endured since Newlamog.
It's pretty damn good. My teammate for Team Trios today had that version and it was pretty gassy.
I read here that GKourou is interested in Tron now and after seeing it in action Friday a bit and today, I am down as well. I am going to the dark side! (if I can muster enough money up, freaking Mycosynth Lattice...$30 card)
Oh I'm not saying it cannot be legit, but its not as if its something new. Its Tron, with now a flexible 'wish package' because you know, Tron needs to be flexible as well as obnoxious gameplay.
with the 2 customary teferi, hero of dominaria. full on teferi tribal
I've been staring into the distance thinking about this deck a lot lately but I do really wonder why you would play this over, say, Devoted Druid combo. You really need to be able to leverage the UW control part of your deck to have any reason to run this other than the yank factor. If such a list exists (ie one that can play control with a combo finish without just being worse than straight combo decks) we have ourselves a nice new twinlike deck with a much slower and less absolute wincon.
You have G-Tron, and then you have World Creator and a sideboard package.
Fine upgrade, but take out 4 main deck cards, and its nothing but G-Tron that we have endured since Newlamog.
It's pretty damn good. My teammate for Team Trios today had that version and it was pretty gassy.
I read here that GKourou is interested in Tron now and after seeing it in action Friday a bit and today, I am down as well. I am going to the dark side! (if I can muster enough money up, freaking Mycosynth Lattice...$30 card)
Still have my darksteel copy in my binder lol. I might sleeve up burn tonight just due to this surge.
I wonder if God-Pharaoh's Statue would be good in Tron. I feel like Tron got a lot of tools and can see a huge upsurge in Tron since the new Karn seems really good
with the 2 customary teferi, hero of dominaria. full on teferi tribal
Yeah a pretty cool deck lol.
Yep. I actually don't … get how it won so many matches. It seems like the perfect recipe for something for me to play this FNM if it weren't for the card, Neoform.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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I'm in a similar boat as you. Haven't had a chance to see the deck in the wild, but my UW Spirits has a lot of tools to handle that deck. I'm going to a modern tournament this afternoon, but something tells me that this deck isn't nearly as popular in paper as it is on MTGO.
If ever you encounter that new combo deck. I hope you share a short report on what happened. Thanks.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I was more referring to Mausoleum Wanderer and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, which add additional mana demands to slow the combo down long enough for Queller to be effective. Redundant fast mana can with through those two, of course, but the same can be said for discard and extra copies of other combo pieces.
Karn is definitely a card we can see being built around. Blast Zone could have some large implications as lists become more defined
*cough* Disrupting Shoal, Snapback, Comandeer *cough*
Heck, even Mindbreak Trap can be devastating against that deck, countering the first Shoal is really rough for that deck.
On the more wonky side of the spectrum, there is Runeflare Trap which is (basically) an instant win.
So, yeah, there are cards which interact with that deck on Turn 0, the question is, how playable those are and especially the shell you can play them in.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I'll add in N=50 games on the draw to get the sample to N=100 and then do some confidence interval calculations, increasing N if needed depending on how wide the intervals look.
I think Kathal was referring to Conley Wood's narset control deck naming shoal an commandeer. That decks is such a blast and just wrecks neoform! It seems pretty good against the field too.
About goldfished pre turn 4 wins: it's quite impressive so far. Curious to know the difference on the draw (should even increase thanks to the card drawn).
Modern:
I wanted to primarily point out, that there IS Turn 0 interaction in modern which can deal with that deck, should it rise in a metagame share. Furthermore, some of those cards saw a lot of play in different time periods, Snapback in the beginning (Blazing Shoal Infect hated that card so much), Disrupting Shoal also had several time periods, where it saw a lot of play, especially back in RUG Delver days (after the Shackles builds btw).
Hence, there were and will be metagames where "trash cards, which are super narrow" are suddenly REALLY good. Just take a look at Surgical Extraction, back in 2015 it would have been idiotic to run that card at all, let alone in the main deck!
Meta changes, decks evolve, those cards can come back (or not), same is true with other super narrow and "garbage" cards
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
I'm not very interested if the deck becomes tier 1 or not, just kill it, there is absolutely nothing for modern to gain from such horrible, feel bad games like that.
I mean, I play 4x Disrupting Shoal in RUG Delver. I just didn't even mention it because no one plays or likes* that card. Among popularly-played cards, it's discard or a 1 mana soft counter or bust, I think.
*They howl about how bad the card disadvantage is, and how you can't counter stuff like Gurmag Angler very easily. Yes. But the card disadvantage doesn't matter if you're dead and this is the thing that stops the thing that kills you. And 35/50 top cards in Modern, ie 70%, cost either 1 or 2 mana, and several of the ones that don't require 1 or 2 mana cards to set them up (Karn, Phoenix, etc), and thus are vulnerable to Disrupting Shoal. It's bad against decks that grind, but it counters so much of the format, especially now, that I think it's never been better. Obviously I'm super biased here.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/Star_City_Games_Classic/2019-05-05_modern_Richmond_VA_US/1/
1. Humans
2. Phoenix
3. Phoenix
4. G-Tron
5. Phoenix
6. R-Prison
7. Hollow One
8. Amulet
2 More Phoenix in Top 16 (1 Mono Red)
Spirits
Modern: Decks I'm playing right now:
G Mono Green Tron (34-10-3 paper record, only SCG/Regionals/PPTQ record)
C Eldrazi Tron (9-5)
UG Infect
RW Burn
You have G-Tron, and then you have World Creator and a sideboard package.
Fine upgrade, but take out 4 main deck cards, and its nothing but G-Tron that we have endured since Newlamog.
Spirits
It's pretty damn good. My teammate for Team Trios today had that version and it was pretty gassy.
I read here that GKourou is interested in Tron now and after seeing it in action Friday a bit and today, I am down as well. I am going to the dark side! (if I can muster enough money up, freaking Mycosynth Lattice...$30 card)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)4x teferi, time raveler
2x teferi, mage of zhalfir
4x knowledge pool
with the 2 customary teferi, hero of dominaria. full on teferi tribal
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Oh I'm not saying it cannot be legit, but its not as if its something new. Its Tron, with now a flexible 'wish package' because you know, Tron needs to be flexible as well as obnoxious gameplay.
Cool, fine.
Spirits
I've been staring into the distance thinking about this deck a lot lately but I do really wonder why you would play this over, say, Devoted Druid combo. You really need to be able to leverage the UW control part of your deck to have any reason to run this other than the yank factor. If such a list exists (ie one that can play control with a combo finish without just being worse than straight combo decks) we have ourselves a nice new twinlike deck with a much slower and less absolute wincon.
That being said, Wish Tron looks fun, I would need the 2x KCG and the sideboard wish cards.
Also, Izzet Phoenix continues to be one of the best things to be doing right now. Humans still looking strong as hell, too.
Still have my darksteel copy in my binder lol. I might sleeve up burn tonight just due to this surge.
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Yeah a pretty cool deck lol.
Yep. I actually don't … get how it won so many matches. It seems like the perfect recipe for something for me to play this FNM if it weren't for the card, Neoform.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)