Lately, Modern community members have expressed interest in talking holistically about the challenges and problems facing Modern. Whether or not Modern has "challenges" or "problems" is up for debate, but what is clear is that people want to talk about all of these issues in one unified setting.
As such, Modern staff are opening this thread as a replacement for the old "Banlist Discussion" thread and the "State of the Meta thread." You can use this thread to talk about any and all of these varied Modern issues and their intersection. This thread will be heavily moderated, so be sure to read the rules before posting; anyone who posts in this thread is assumed to have read and understood these rules.
Allowed topics
Bans, unbans, and all things related to the banlist and banlist policy
Metagame health and diversity
Reprint suggestions and reprint philosophy
New cards and design philosophy
Prices and Modern finance
Archetype definitions
Format health, successes, and challenges
Anything that constructively relates to these different issues
Rules spotlight: No flaming (insulting other users) or trolling (baiting other users into a hostile response). Posts must be civil and respectful.
Rules spotlight: No spamming. Posts must be constructive, on-topic, and supported with evidence and argumentation.
No format bashing. If you don't like Modern, that's fine, but constructively/respectfully explain why and be optimistic.
Similarly, do not use this thread to voice grievances, complaints, and personal gripes without constructive/respectful suggestions.
If you see a user flaming, spamming, trolling, or breaking any other rule, report him/her instead of responding to it.
The mod team will strictly enforce these rules. Please make this a place where people are unafraid to post constructive thoughts.
Due to the history of flaming and trolling in the thread effective immediately any infraction for trolling or flaming will result in a week suspension.
Here are some reasons that cards are banned in Modern:
Some cards enable a top tier deck to consistently win on turn 3 or earlier. Because this violates the "turn 4" rule of the format, the following cards have been banned:
Other cards have been banned because they make certain decks too consistent/reliable and thus stagnate the format. Here are some examples of these cards:
Some cards, currently only one, are banned because they were just mistakes. This card is one of the most broken cards of all time and has been banned in almost every format where it was or is legal:
There are also some cards that were banned for logistical reasons. These cards made tournaments last too long and were banned to make events run smoother. They were not necessarily banned for power reasons.
No changes as expected. With Modern Horizons, the new mulligan rule, and War of the Spark promising to shake up the format it's going to be a loooong time before we see any changes to the B&R list. Nevertheless, feel free to discuss any and all things modern here, and remember to keep the conversations civil!
regardless of what wizards thinks of modern atm, or various bans or unbans, they had a very good reason not to enact any changes. for one they would be screwing over a lot of players on the eve of 3 modern GPs, and two they would be foregoing useful information from said GPs.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
No changes was expected, and I think the right call. They shouldn't make any major changes to Modern until we get Modern Horizons. I've always been a firm unban proponent of SFM and Twin, but I want to wait until we see how the format looks after MH1. We all know that they'll never print an equipment on par with Batterskull into Standard, but they might in MH1. So, let's wait and see. Likewise with bans, things that are maybe too powerful right now very well might not be after MH1.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Hardly a shock. We got War of the Sparks presumably at least one Walker at will be Modern Playable or a few. Then we got Horizons...and London Mulligan to test so nothing until July or August with regards to Modern. Unless something super broken comes in War of the Spark which is possible.
As much as I don't like it, I do agree with Wraithpk. I don't think it makes sense for them to unleash anything on the ban list (as innocuous as something may seem) when Modern Horizons is around the corner. The biggest thing I can think of is that they stated that they had a group of people doing testing for this set to ensure Modern could handle it. While there is no guarantee they didn't miss anything, they likely didn't test anything on the banlist with their testing since none of that is actually in the format now. It only makes sense for them to see how MH shakes up the format first before going back to the banlist.
Also, as a bit of tinfoil hat time: I believe they have only stated that there are no reprints of anything that is already Modern Legal. SFM (and anything else on the banlist) is not Modern Legal. While I don't actually believe this is true, it could be possible they are being a little coy and will reprint SFM in this set (and, unban her at the same time). If so, then it is possible they used this opportunity and used those resources for testing her as if she were a brand new card (which, effectively, she is).
Well I mean Maro did hint they finish the Sword Cycle with the Allied Pairs so for that reason you expect SFM to come off.
Granted the issue is of course there is no place to reprint SFM and I suppose it might be useful to see if any equipment is busted without her.
As far as I can tell SFM cannot be reprinted until the next Core Set? Since Ravnica has no Kors. Even if yes War of the Spark not focusing on traditional guild stuff.
Even if SFM is unbanned there is no way wizards ever reprints her in standard regardless of the power level of the equipment in the format at the time. Her being previously banned in standard is very different than her being banned in a non rotating format like modern
I'm more of the opinion at this point that War of the sparks spoilers and Modern Horizon spoilers can't come fast enough. It's very comparable to childlike anticipation of Christmas.
Well I mean Maro did hint they finish the Sword Cycle with the Allied Pairs so for that reason you expect SFM to come off.
Granted the issue is of course there is no place to reprint SFM and I suppose it might be useful to see if any equipment is busted without her.
As far as I can tell SFM cannot be reprinted until the next Core Set? Since Ravnica has no Kors. Even if yes War of the Spark not focusing on traditional guild stuff.
If they are planning to complete the Sword Cycle that is even more of a reason for them to keep SFM on the banlist exactly because they consider her dangerous (not that I agree, I am just pointing out).
However, why would they have to reprint her? She was printed in rare so there is to shortage of stock. She was also a GP promo. They can also reprint her in a future master set or other complimentary product. How is the core set relevant?
Core Set is simply the earliest I could see them print her that why its relevant. Cause presumably any unban is coming with a reprint. Its not especially relevant I agree.
I'm more of the opinion at this point that War of the sparks spoilers and Modern Horizon spoilers can't come fast enough. It's very comparable to childlike anticipation of Christmas.
I agree. I need to rub it in the faces of my friends if Counterspell is back. Many others online are saying that it's a shoo-in, so I hope they are not letting me down.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'm more of the opinion at this point that War of the sparks spoilers and Modern Horizon spoilers can't come fast enough. It's very comparable to childlike anticipation of Christmas.
I agree. I need to rub it in the faces of my friends if Counterspell is back. Many others online are saying that it's a shoo-in, so I hope they are not letting me down.
I bought a playset of Counterspell from Jace's spellbook. To add to that I also bought a playset of Baleful Strix and Shardless Agents. My body is ready.
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Currently Playing: WUMiracles ControlUW RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
London Mulligan Rule, MH, WAR, this year is the most mindblowing one in my experience of Magic, in terms of announcements. The things they try in such a short amount of time is beyond believable.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Happy with no changes. On top of the obvious things coming down the road - Horizons, potential change to Mulligan rules, and a new Standard set with loads of PWs - I simply don't think any card met a currently-known threshold for bans. I know a large contingent of voices (especially pros) wanted Looting banned but I feel that's a very misguided target.
to be honest I think that the lack of any statement about the health of modern right now is the biggest take away from today. They didn't even say if they were watching anything
I may actually try to foil a deck if Counterspell is printed... What’s the “high value” printing? I’m guessing it’ll either be 7th or the judge promo?
You better get on it. I went to the 'Bay to find some of those exactly. After seeing around $100 EACH, I clicked out of that window suuuper quickly. A bit rich for my blood... (but I guess if you're a "true Control player," or more likely a true Foil Boy...)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
In summary, Looting might be on a watchlist of sorts ("our most talked about Modern card right now"), R&D just made Modern changes and wants the format to settle, Modern is largely self-correcting, and R&D has not yet seen enough to make a change.
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StaffLately, Modern community members have expressed interest in talking holistically about the challenges and problems facing Modern. Whether or not Modern has "challenges" or "problems" is up for debate, but what is clear is that people want to talk about all of these issues in one unified setting.
As such, Modern staff are opening this thread as a replacement for the old "Banlist Discussion" thread and the "State of the Meta thread." You can use this thread to talk about any and all of these varied Modern issues and their intersection. This thread will be heavily moderated, so be sure to read the rules before posting; anyone who posts in this thread is assumed to have read and understood these rules.
Allowed topics
Prohibited topics and behavior
The mod team will strictly enforce these rules. Please make this a place where people are unafraid to post constructive thoughts.
Due to the history of flaming and trolling in the thread effective immediately any infraction for trolling or flaming will result in a week suspension.
Update from the March 11, 2019 B&R Announcement:
No Changes.
Next B&R Announcement:
May 20, 2019
Current DCI Modern Banned List
Here are some reasons that cards are banned in Modern:
Second Sunrise
The following are links to WotC's in-depth explanations as to why cards have or have not gotten banned since the beginning of the format:
Krark-Clan Ironworks is banned
Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Bloodbraid Elf unbanned
October 2017: No changes
March 2017: No changes
Gitaxian Probe and Golgari Grave-Troll are banned
Eye of Ugin banned, Ancestral Vision and Sword of the Meek unbanned
Summer Bloom and Splinter Twin banned
Birthing Pod/Treasure Cruise/Dig Through Time banned, Golgari Grave-Troll unbanned
Bitterblossom/Nacatl unbanned. DRS banned
Addition of Second Sunrise
Addition of Bloodbraid Elf and Seething Song
Removal of Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3rd Banned List change with explanations
2nd Banned List change with explanations
1st Banned List change with explanations
Community Cup Announcement with the Initial Ban List.
Old threads:
21/01/2019 - 11/03/2019
26/11/2018 - 21/01/2019
01/10/2018 - 26/11/2018
08/20/2018 - 01/10/2018
07/02/2018 - 08/20/2018
04/16/2018 - 07/02/2018
02/10/2018 - 04/16/2018
01/15/2017 - 02/10/2018
10/27/2017 - 01/15/2017
7/18/2017 - 10/27/2017
3/23/2017 - 4/24/2017
3/13/2017 - 3/23/2017
1/9/17 Banlist Update
12/8/2016 - 3/13/2017
9/28/2016 - 12/10/2016
7/18/2016 - 9/30/2016
4/4/2016 - 7/18/2016
1/16/2016 - 4/4/2016
7/13/2015 - 1/16/2016
1/19/2015 - 7/13/2015
7/14/2014 - 1/19/2015
2/9/2014 - 7/14/2014
1/20/2014 - 2/10/2014
6/23/2014 - 1/20/2014
4/22/2013 - 6/23/213
1/27/2013 - 4/22/13
9/20/2012 - 1/27/2013
7/19/2012 - 9/20/2012
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
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StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Can't wait to see the 36 walkers that they're gonna give us. At least a few of those should be playable in modern.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Idk about great place and we’ll see how the later works out.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)2/3s agree.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Also, as a bit of tinfoil hat time: I believe they have only stated that there are no reprints of anything that is already Modern Legal. SFM (and anything else on the banlist) is not Modern Legal. While I don't actually believe this is true, it could be possible they are being a little coy and will reprint SFM in this set (and, unban her at the same time). If so, then it is possible they used this opportunity and used those resources for testing her as if she were a brand new card (which, effectively, she is).
Granted the issue is of course there is no place to reprint SFM and I suppose it might be useful to see if any equipment is busted without her.
As far as I can tell SFM cannot be reprinted until the next Core Set? Since Ravnica has no Kors. Even if yes War of the Spark not focusing on traditional guild stuff.
However, why would they have to reprint her? She was printed in rare so there is to shortage of stock. She was also a GP promo. They can also reprint her in a future master set or other complimentary product. How is the core set relevant?
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
I agree. I need to rub it in the faces of my friends if Counterspell is back. Many others online are saying that it's a shoo-in, so I hope they are not letting me down.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)WUMiracles ControlUW
RUBGrixis Death's ShadowBUR
"Reveal a Dragon"
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I am so afraid of that "SHAKE" to be honest
UR Faeries Modern
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StaffYou better get on it. I went to the 'Bay to find some of those exactly. After seeing around $100 EACH, I clicked out of that window suuuper quickly. A bit rich for my blood... (but I guess if you're a "true Control player," or more likely a true Foil Boy...)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/azzi6q/rd_on_why_faithless_looting_wasnt_banned_in_modern/
Twitch clip: https://clips.twitch.tv/IncredulousHilariousPeachAsianGlow
In summary, Looting might be on a watchlist of sorts ("our most talked about Modern card right now"), R&D just made Modern changes and wants the format to settle, Modern is largely self-correcting, and R&D has not yet seen enough to make a change.