You'd think whoever compiles these for CFB, of all places, would know how to tell the difference between Jund and The Rock. I was pleasantly surprised until I wasn't.
Ah my bad. Yeah no bans until after the new London Mulligan Rule and Horizons come out so not until May or June I guess. I am looking more at Horizon to boost Control and Midrange in the face of aggro and grave recursion abuse more then the Mulligan though. I say combo but my impression is WOTC likes combo shackled.
?
I was under the impression that graveyard recursion was a type of combo, at least in most cases, with exceptions being things where the recursion is built into the card and doesn't require other cards to trigger it, like things with undying, unearth, or persist, but that things like Zombify, Arclite Phoenix and Prized Amalgam were essentially combo cards.
You'd think whoever compiles these for CFB, of all places, would know how to tell the difference between Jund and The Rock. I was pleasantly surprised until I wasn't.
You mean like the UW control which is actually an Esper deck?
Also interesting to note that there is only 1 control deck (2 if you count faeries) in the top 32 but also only 1 Dredge deck. These 14 copies in Day 2 didn't really help its conversion rate!
Ah my bad. Yeah no bans until after the new London Mulligan Rule and Horizons come out so not until May or June I guess. I am looking more at Horizon to boost Control and Midrange in the face of aggro and grave recursion abuse more then the Mulligan though. I say combo but my impression is WOTC likes combo shackled.
?
I was under the impression that graveyard recursion was a type of combo, at least in most cases, with exceptions being things where the recursion is built into the card and doesn't require other cards to trigger it, like things with undying, unearth, or persist, but that things like Zombify, Arclite Phoenix and Prized Amalgam were essentially combo cards.
Fair enough but when I say anti combo I mean WOTC is anti combo decks that don't rely upon on Creatures swinging in for Wins.
Few pages back someone said that 'people who think True Name Nemesis is an okay card are absolutely off their rocker'.
Please look at that top 32. There's 6 decks maximum that could give a ***** about True Name Nemesis and those are the black midrange decks like rock and GDS who can easily adapt their deck lists to have more sacrifice effects.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Check out Logan Nettles' 21st place Jund list. 0 Copies of Assassin's Trophy. That's fascinating to see given the amount of hype that card got.
I wouldn't read too much into this. The two T8 Rock decks at Toronto had 3 and 4 Trophies respectively. The 3 Rock decks in the MCQ T8 at Strasbourg had 2-3 MD copies each.
In general, I wouldn't draw a lot of conclusions from this one event. There are too many other proximate events that complicate the picture. The only hard conclusion I would draw is that Izzet Phoenix is resoundingly Tier 1 and is an easy contender for current best Modern deck. See my previous post for the reasons why we will continue to see this deck make big appearances. Other than that, all the other conclusions/fears I've seen don't really make sense when we zoom out past this single event.
what i read into a jund deck reverting back to a leaner build with more bolts is just wanting to get people dead faster. i actually think its perfectly reasonable considering the strength of jund over rock is its closing speed, so you lean into that with 4 bolts and 4 bbe and forego a bunch of 2 cmc interaction that can gum up your curve.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Check out Logan Nettles' 21st place Jund list. 0 Copies of Assassin's Trophy. That's fascinating to see given the amount of hype that card got.
I wouldn't read too much into this. The two T8 Rock decks at Toronto had 3 and 4 Trophies respectively. The 3 Rock decks in the MCQ T8 at Strasbourg had 2-3 MD copies each.
In general, I wouldn't draw a lot of conclusions from this one event. There are too many other proximate events that complicate the picture. The only hard conclusion I would draw is that Izzet Phoenix is resoundingly Tier 1 and is an easy contender for current best Modern deck. See my previous post for the reasons why we will continue to see this deck make big appearances. Other than that, all the other conclusions/fears I've seen don't really make sense when we zoom out past this single event.
Maybe there's a difference needed in Jund? Who knows?
The Assassin's Trophys were better than I expected, as I lost 2 matches in a row at the MCQ in Los Angeles to GB Rock with RG Breach. I mean, I technically was out at 2-1, but I didn't expect to get even more destroyed. FIVE Assassin's Trophy in Games 2 and 3 in Round 4 were a big part of that. Then, SIX Assassin's Trophy in Games 2 and 3 were part of the next match against the same deck. I did not expect to lose to GBx with a Titan deck. Titanshift would have done better, but I'm not sure how much better it would have done in those situations.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
bad beats man. titanshift is decently positioned right (including GR breach)? not a lot of decks running around that are faster. despite how explosive these GY aggro decks may seem they typically arent shipping in for lethal until turn 5.
as for assassin's trophy. the card makes more sense in GB rock since you have the fields to bolster the mana denial plan if it comes up; especially with fulminators out of the side.
for jund though, the deck is all over the place still with minor variations. really id attribute that GP placement to it being logan nettles as much as anything else. /shrug
the field has narrowed a bit and most of GBx's maindeck cards do relevant stuff. thats really how the archetype hangs in there in terms of consistency.
also not surprising to see hardened scales do well since its decently positioned to fight through fairish decks with spot removal. i just cant get behind decks that have such polarizing draws hinging on one card.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
After playing the legacy open in Syracuse this past weekend, I really have no desire to play this format right now. Legacy is just so much more interactive and rewarding of decision making. It's amazing how much of a difference Force of Will, Brainstorm, Daze, and Wasteland make.
Hopefully this changes with Modern Horizons shaking up the format and giving us better interactive tools. Stoneforge still being banned is a joke.
It's kind of sad when the best interaction is: cast 4 cantrips for a free one-sided board wipe, then attack for 7-13 damage.
I think that is great interaction. If you have no grave hate, creature removal or taxing effects that deck will remind you why you should have some of those things. I think it is certainly the #1 deck, but I think it is ok in the same way GDS was the best deck for a while. Good deck building and synergies are good.
Considering how much Wizards hates the dredge mechanic, I am surprised they are allowing the archetype to not only be alive and well but to currently be the #2 most played deck according to MTGO Goldfish.
We'll see though - maybe it will die down again after people load up on graveyard hate again. I am more worried about Arclight Phoenix decks, as they can shrug off graveyard hate pretty easily with Crackling Drake and Thing in the Ice.
I also think that the best interaction of the format is:
Turn 1 thoughtseize, turn 2/3 fatal push+lightning Bolt, play a fast threat, hold up stubborn denial.
Also, if you want interaction there is UWx Control, Jund, and other midrange/control strategies.
1 Jund and 2 BG Rock decks in the top 32, one faeries deck in the top 32, another faerie and some midrange decks in the previous GP.
Modern being uninteractive is a myth. Modern is an interactive format and I think it's at it's best at the moment. Surely, it's not 10/10 interactive but I have a hunch that Modern Horizons will make it more interactive for sure.
Considering how much Wizards hates the dredge mechanic, I am surprised they are allowing the archetype to not only be alive and well but to currently be the #2 most played deck according to MTGO Goldfish.
You wouldn't know it with how they printed Creeping Chill. But they have a habit of breaking decks accidentally all the time.
Do they have a Dredge Lover in Play testing? I think someone told me Cheon is a Dredge Lover but I don't really follow the names enough in the pro scene to know if that is true.
Still the truth will be revealed if Containment Priest doesn't get printed in Horizons.
You would think WOTC would hate Drege but I suppose it still mostly wins by swinging in with creatures.
Hey, remember how there were people who would swear up and down that Jace was so broken that if unbanned, every Blue deck in the format would play him? Yep, he's sure dominating all right. Look at all those Blue decks that are totally running Jace.
Yeah, I know that was a long time ago, but I still want to laugh about it.
Hey, remember how there were people who would swear up and down that Jace was so broken that if unbanned, every Blue deck in the format would play him? Yep, he's sure dominating all right. Look at all those Blue decks that are totally running Jace.
Yeah, I know that was a long time ago, but I still want to laugh about it.
Yes, I remember that. I kind of want to rub it in to those naysayers, especially the ones that play at my local shop, but there's literally no point right now. The proof is in the pudding; the results speak louder than I can.
I kind of want to say more about Stoneforge Mystic, but there are at least 2 players at my LGS who don't believe Stoneforge Mystic will or should get unbanned. LO Freaking L.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I kind of want to say more about Stoneforge Mystic, but there are at least 2 players at my LGS who don't believe Stoneforge Mystic will or should get unbanned. LO Freaking L.
You know...I can barely work up the desire to even care, but what is the actual argument against SFM? Literally someone spell it out for me because I dont get it.
I want to see the decklist of a SFM deck that would actually even dent this formats top players.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
UW Spirits
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You'd think whoever compiles these for CFB, of all places, would know how to tell the difference between Jund and The Rock. I was pleasantly surprised until I wasn't.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
?
I was under the impression that graveyard recursion was a type of combo, at least in most cases, with exceptions being things where the recursion is built into the card and doesn't require other cards to trigger it, like things with undying, unearth, or persist, but that things like Zombify, Arclite Phoenix and Prized Amalgam were essentially combo cards.
Also interesting to note that there is only 1 control deck (2 if you count faeries) in the top 32 but also only 1 Dredge deck. These 14 copies in Day 2 didn't really help its conversion rate!
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Fair enough but when I say anti combo I mean WOTC is anti combo decks that don't rely upon on Creatures swinging in for Wins.
Please look at that top 32. There's 6 decks maximum that could give a ***** about True Name Nemesis and those are the black midrange decks like rock and GDS who can easily adapt their deck lists to have more sacrifice effects.
I wouldn't read too much into this. The two T8 Rock decks at Toronto had 3 and 4 Trophies respectively. The 3 Rock decks in the MCQ T8 at Strasbourg had 2-3 MD copies each.
In general, I wouldn't draw a lot of conclusions from this one event. There are too many other proximate events that complicate the picture. The only hard conclusion I would draw is that Izzet Phoenix is resoundingly Tier 1 and is an easy contender for current best Modern deck. See my previous post for the reasons why we will continue to see this deck make big appearances. Other than that, all the other conclusions/fears I've seen don't really make sense when we zoom out past this single event.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Maybe there's a difference needed in Jund? Who knows?
The Assassin's Trophys were better than I expected, as I lost 2 matches in a row at the MCQ in Los Angeles to GB Rock with RG Breach. I mean, I technically was out at 2-1, but I didn't expect to get even more destroyed. FIVE Assassin's Trophy in Games 2 and 3 in Round 4 were a big part of that. Then, SIX Assassin's Trophy in Games 2 and 3 were part of the next match against the same deck. I did not expect to lose to GBx with a Titan deck. Titanshift would have done better, but I'm not sure how much better it would have done in those situations.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)as for assassin's trophy. the card makes more sense in GB rock since you have the fields to bolster the mana denial plan if it comes up; especially with fulminators out of the side.
for jund though, the deck is all over the place still with minor variations. really id attribute that GP placement to it being logan nettles as much as anything else. /shrug
the field has narrowed a bit and most of GBx's maindeck cards do relevant stuff. thats really how the archetype hangs in there in terms of consistency.
also not surprising to see hardened scales do well since its decently positioned to fight through fairish decks with spot removal. i just cant get behind decks that have such polarizing draws hinging on one card.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Hopefully this changes with Modern Horizons shaking up the format and giving us better interactive tools. Stoneforge still being banned is a joke.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I think that is great interaction. If you have no grave hate, creature removal or taxing effects that deck will remind you why you should have some of those things. I think it is certainly the #1 deck, but I think it is ok in the same way GDS was the best deck for a while. Good deck building and synergies are good.
We'll see though - maybe it will die down again after people load up on graveyard hate again. I am more worried about Arclight Phoenix decks, as they can shrug off graveyard hate pretty easily with Crackling Drake and Thing in the Ice.
Planar Void would be a wonderful addition to the format, acting as an alternative to Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace.
I still think it is possible though that Faithless Looting is not much longer for this world, especially now that Arclight Phoenix and Creeping Chill exist.
You wouldn't know it with how they printed Creeping Chill. But they have a habit of breaking decks accidentally all the time.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Still the truth will be revealed if Containment Priest doesn't get printed in Horizons.
You would think WOTC would hate Drege but I suppose it still mostly wins by swinging in with creatures.
Rule of Law type effects seem particularly powerful against phoenix. Is Ethersworn Canonist starting to see more play? Eidolon of Rhetoric?
I'm curious to see how the meta adapts to the these decks' dominance.
Hey, remember how there were people who would swear up and down that Jace was so broken that if unbanned, every Blue deck in the format would play him? Yep, he's sure dominating all right. Look at all those Blue decks that are totally running Jace.
Yeah, I know that was a long time ago, but I still want to laugh about it.
Well against Recursion in general is what I was targeting.
Rhetoric was in both my Spirits (Bant and UW) and Knightfall, and was great against plenty of current decks.
Very good underrated card.
As to the meta, I saw a good tweet. It's Phoenix, Dredge, and then everyone else. Outside GDS, next to zero stack interaction in the format.
And no, UW is not even good right now when it's RIP, Terminus or bust.
As to Jace? In 2019? Lol
Spirits
Yes, I remember that. I kind of want to rub it in to those naysayers, especially the ones that play at my local shop, but there's literally no point right now. The proof is in the pudding; the results speak louder than I can.
I kind of want to say more about Stoneforge Mystic, but there are at least 2 players at my LGS who don't believe Stoneforge Mystic will or should get unbanned. LO Freaking L.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)You know...I can barely work up the desire to even care, but what is the actual argument against SFM? Literally someone spell it out for me because I dont get it.
I want to see the decklist of a SFM deck that would actually even dent this formats top players.
Spirits