Can I get by without Surgical Extraction in like every sideboard of every deck I want to make? I'm looking at UW control, Blue Moon or Tron for MTGO and about half of the decks cost is the 2-3 copies of surgical. I remember when all the pros didn't even like this card... I quit for over a year and kind of like how things are looking right now, but this auto including surgicals in every deck and how expensive it is now is the one thing that really sticks out to me.
It obviously doesn't work the same, but I ran ravenous trap in paper for awhile until I picked up surgicals. Those or extirpate may help you out, otherwise, yea, surgical is pretty good right now.
It is a concern when Surgical begins to seem like the best answer to a lot of decks. It sort of feels like Modern's version of Force of Will - a free spell that functions to keep degenerate decks in check. I'd say Surgical Extraction can only be a good investment from here on out.
It is a concern when Surgical begins to seem like the best answer to a lot of decks. It sort of feels like Modern's version of Force of Will - a free spell that functions to keep degenerate decks in check. I'd say Surgical Extraction can only be a good investment from here on out.
Ehh, I wouldn't go quite that far. I ran some in the mainboard and some in the side in my budget 8-rack deck back when they were cheap, and their performance was...ok. Sometimes I would be up against a combo deck where they were effective, but other times Nihil Spellbomb and Bojuka Bog did a lot more work. Diversifying threats and answers has been popular for some time now, so, unless you can get spell synergy out of Surgical Extraction, they aren't always the best grave hate option.
^Yeah I never personally liked the card too much. My best results with it were against storm. Many decks just had too many threats for it to be worth it. A lot of times I felt fine just using RIP or even relics. I've only been back in the game for a few days so I don't even know all the graveyard shenanigans I need to be watching out for right now.
just announced that the london mythic championship will be modern. so good news for modern fans.
more interesting though is the new mulligan rule they will be testing: you get to draw 7 each time, but then put cards on the bottom of your deck equal to the number of mulligans taken. so instead of mulling down to 6 random cards, you draw 7 and put 1 on bottom - and so forth. the scry is removed.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
just announced that the london mythic championship will be modern. so good news for modern fans.
more interesting though is the new mulligan rule they will be testing: you get to draw 7 each time, but then put cards on the bottom of your deck equal to the number of mulligans taken. so instead of mulling down to 6 random cards, you draw 7 and put 1 on bottom - and so forth. the scry is removed.
I don't know how I feel about this. I mean I want to think I will love it and it will make for better games, but in formats like this where stupidly powerful sideboard cards rule the rooat, it makes it easier to find and less punishing to mull to Leyline, for example.
This was attempting to do something similar to the scry mulligan we used at Pro Tour Magic Origins, but in a way that was more powerful. Basically, each time you mulligan you draw up to seven, but get rid of cards that you can't use (down to the appropriate smaller hand size per mulligan), thereby increasing the chances that you will have a reasonable hand.
What we liked: This seemed pretty close to right power level for Limited, but had some problems. You generally ended up shuffling your most expensive card back, but if it wasn't obvious, then the decision on which to shuffle back was pretty hard—and made this take a lot longer than a regular mulligan.
What we didn't like: This mulligan was way too strong in Constructed, and encouraged big changes in deck building. Perhaps the most notable thing was in Modern and Eternal formats, where sideboard hate got a lot stronger since you could shuffle extra copies back into your decks. Similarly, combo decks got a huge advantage since they could mulligan away possibly useless cards. In one of our biggest rules violations for changing the mulligan rule, it clearly changed the parameters for deck building, and would have a profound impact on how older formats played out.
at some point you just gotta test things
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
im more worried about the potential bannings with this new rule. I mean, of course bazaar of baghdad will be restricted, but i dont care about vintage. Modern on the other hand... it will be a mess i supose
Sounds good for a lot of specific decks, be it Hardening Affinity, two card combos (Griselbanned e.g.) and some specific Control builds (like the BUG Teachings deck).
However, for many other decks it won't be as good as it may sound, since they are usually quite robust (aka redundant) build. Don't get me wrong, it will be still better than the current one, just not as good as the peak for other decks (compare Tron vs RG Scapeshift, Hardening Affininty vs Traditional Affinity, BUG Teachings vs BGx,...)
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Very pleased they are just trying it out, even if it doesn't work. I'd rather Wizards test out new ideas and find them to be bad then just assume ideas are bad and never try anything new.
Also, great news that Modern will be the second Mythic Champ format of 2019. That's a good endorsement of the format on Wizards' end. I also expect it will influence the B&R timing in a big way, so we should see potential changes in the B&R update after that event.
Do we really think the goal of Standard + or Arena Modern will not be to kill current Modern?
Yes a Modern mythic pro tour is good but I have doubts about Modern being save in the long term. Especially given Maro's vocal dislike of Fetchlands. Though we are supposedly getting an announcment this month that will make us Modern Fans happy. On the other hand WOTC changes their mind all the time.
Do we really think the goal of Standard + or Arena Modern will not be to kill current Modern?
Yes a Modern mythic pro tour is good but I have doubts about Modern being save in the long term. Especially given Maro's vocal dislike of Fetchlands. Though we are supposedly getting an announcment this month that will make us Modern Fans happy. On the other hand WOTC changes their mind all the time.
I am not worried about Modern's future unless Wizards explicitly states they won't code and release all the old Modern sets on Arena. I don't know why they wouldn't release those cards; the rules engine is supposedly very robust and this would only increase player engagement and platform sales. I also don't know why they would deliberately hamstring/torpedo their most popular format. That said, I've seen Wizards make odd decisions in the past, so I wouldn't put it past them to just start a totally new non-rotating format using Arena as the foundation. If they do that, Modern will at best go the way of Legacy with more niche support. At worst, it will die entirely.
Given their continued support of Modern even into 2019, I am still optimistic about Modern's future.
It seriously feels like a lot of the changes they're doing are meant to kill or at least, subdue Magic as we have known it in the past. This saddens me, having played the game for over 20 years now.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Is there anything that putting modern in Arena wouldn't solve? Is there anything in Arena that would make modern worse? Are there any current issues that Arena would further exacerbate in modern? What's the pros and cons list look like here?
I have no idea what the down side could be minus the hassle of getting all the cards to function properly, but go figure.
Do we really think the goal of Standard + or Arena Modern will not be to kill current Modern?
Yes a Modern mythic pro tour is good but I have doubts about Modern being save in the long term. Especially given Maro's vocal dislike of Fetchlands. Though we are supposedly getting an announcment this month that will make us Modern Fans happy. On the other hand WOTC changes their mind all the time.
We've got a Modern PT coming, and a product aimed at Modern players coming at the end of this month.
I'm not worried.
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Modern: UR Gifts Storm URB Grixis Death's Shadow R12 Bolt
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
I would be less concerned if WOTC didn't seem to flip flop all the darn time these days. So its hard to trust anything they say today cause its like they forget the next day.
But you guys have made good points that Modern is still strong.
As for just porting Modern into Arena, I don't think the actual cards would be the issue since apparently they have a scan system that does all the work. I would say the issue is more adding all the bells and whistles that cards with higher rarity currently get in the Modern System. Plus dialogue for all the Walkers and stuff like that. Granted I suppose every walker from the same characters can just use the same lines.
I would be less concerned if WOTC didn't seem to flip flop all the darn time these days. So its hard to trust anything they say today cause its like they forget the next day.
But you guys have made good points that Modern is still strong.
As for just porting Modern into Arena, I don't think the actual cards would be the issue since apparently they have a scan system that does all the work. I would say the issue is more adding all the bells and whistles that cards with higher rarity currently get in the Modern System. Plus dialogue for all the Walkers and stuff like that. Granted I suppose every walker from the same characters can just use the same lines.
I don't think they'll bother porting Modern to Arena. They'll do a Hearthstone style format with all the cards that have rotated out.
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Modern: UR Gifts Storm URB Grixis Death's Shadow R12 Bolt
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
Do we really think the goal of Standard + or Arena Modern will not be to kill current Modern?
Yes a Modern mythic pro tour is good but I have doubts about Modern being save in the long term. Especially given Maro's vocal dislike of Fetchlands. Though we are supposedly getting an announcment this month that will make us Modern Fans happy. On the other hand WOTC changes their mind all the time.
We've got a Modern PT coming, and a product aimed at Modern players coming at the end of this month.
I'm not worried.
Had they mentioned specifically a modern product? Or simply an announcement about modern? Because if it is the latter, then I think the Mythic Championship being modern is the modern related announcement.
A Modern product, something similar as Battlebond as far as I have understood it.
Greetings,
Kathal
Not to mention the fact that they said (iirc) that this was something never tried before, right? I definitely took their statements as a product, not just an event.
I would be less concerned if WOTC didn't seem to flip flop all the darn time these days. So its hard to trust anything they say today cause its like they forget the next day.
But you guys have made good points that Modern is still strong.
As for just porting Modern into Arena, I don't think the actual cards would be the issue since apparently they have a scan system that does all the work. I would say the issue is more adding all the bells and whistles that cards with higher rarity currently get in the Modern System. Plus dialogue for all the Walkers and stuff like that. Granted I suppose every walker from the same characters can just use the same lines.
I don't think they'll bother porting Modern to Arena. They'll do a Hearthstone style format with all the cards that have rotated out.
We know it is extremely likely they will do one or the other. Wizards needs some kind of non-rotating format on Arena to preserve card value and long-term interest. It's just a question of what format, and the choices are realistically:
1. Modern
2. Arena-non-rotating that slowly phases into Modern as more sets are added
3. Arena non-rotating with no new sets added beyond a certain point
Given the apparent success of Arena, it seems unlikely that Wizards wouldn't want to maximize the platform as a one stop shop for all of its Magic experience. Phasing in Modern does just that over the long term. It's already the most popular format by most metrics we have available, and it seems foolish to reinvent the wheel. They failed to do a similar reinvention literally last year with Brawl as an offshoot of Commander and Standard. Brawl seems to have failed so spectacularly they pulled basically all event support. If that is any indicator, the safer bet for Wizards would just be going with the proven non-rotating format of Modern. Then again, Wizards decided to try Brawl in the first place when the community instantly spotted it was a bad idea, so I wouldn't entirely put it past Wizards to make a similar decision/mistake again. Given the Modern upside and the continued 2019 Modern support, however, I'd still lean towards Modern being the final product.
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Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010
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It is a concern when Surgical begins to seem like the best answer to a lot of decks. It sort of feels like Modern's version of Force of Will - a free spell that functions to keep degenerate decks in check. I'd say Surgical Extraction can only be a good investment from here on out.
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
more interesting though is the new mulligan rule they will be testing: you get to draw 7 each time, but then put cards on the bottom of your deck equal to the number of mulligans taken. so instead of mulling down to 6 random cards, you draw 7 and put 1 on bottom - and so forth. the scry is removed.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
at some point you just gotta test things
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
However, for many other decks it won't be as good as it may sound, since they are usually quite robust (aka redundant) build. Don't get me wrong, it will be still better than the current one, just not as good as the peak for other decks (compare Tron vs RG Scapeshift, Hardening Affininty vs Traditional Affinity, BUG Teachings vs BGx,...)
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Spirits
Also, great news that Modern will be the second Mythic Champ format of 2019. That's a good endorsement of the format on Wizards' end. I also expect it will influence the B&R timing in a big way, so we should see potential changes in the B&R update after that event.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Yes a Modern mythic pro tour is good but I have doubts about Modern being save in the long term. Especially given Maro's vocal dislike of Fetchlands. Though we are supposedly getting an announcment this month that will make us Modern Fans happy. On the other hand WOTC changes their mind all the time.
I am not worried about Modern's future unless Wizards explicitly states they won't code and release all the old Modern sets on Arena. I don't know why they wouldn't release those cards; the rules engine is supposedly very robust and this would only increase player engagement and platform sales. I also don't know why they would deliberately hamstring/torpedo their most popular format. That said, I've seen Wizards make odd decisions in the past, so I wouldn't put it past them to just start a totally new non-rotating format using Arena as the foundation. If they do that, Modern will at best go the way of Legacy with more niche support. At worst, it will die entirely.
Given their continued support of Modern even into 2019, I am still optimistic about Modern's future.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I have no idea what the down side could be minus the hassle of getting all the cards to function properly, but go figure.
"Reveal a Dragon"
We've got a Modern PT coming, and a product aimed at Modern players coming at the end of this month.
I'm not worried.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
But you guys have made good points that Modern is still strong.
As for just porting Modern into Arena, I don't think the actual cards would be the issue since apparently they have a scan system that does all the work. I would say the issue is more adding all the bells and whistles that cards with higher rarity currently get in the Modern System. Plus dialogue for all the Walkers and stuff like that. Granted I suppose every walker from the same characters can just use the same lines.
I don't think they'll bother porting Modern to Arena. They'll do a Hearthstone style format with all the cards that have rotated out.
Pauper: UR Puzzle Pieces
EDH: UB Phenax, God of Deception UR The Locust God UR Saheeli the Gifted WBG Anafenza, the Foremost
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Not to mention the fact that they said (iirc) that this was something never tried before, right? I definitely took their statements as a product, not just an event.
We know it is extremely likely they will do one or the other. Wizards needs some kind of non-rotating format on Arena to preserve card value and long-term interest. It's just a question of what format, and the choices are realistically:
1. Modern
2. Arena-non-rotating that slowly phases into Modern as more sets are added
3. Arena non-rotating with no new sets added beyond a certain point
Given the apparent success of Arena, it seems unlikely that Wizards wouldn't want to maximize the platform as a one stop shop for all of its Magic experience. Phasing in Modern does just that over the long term. It's already the most popular format by most metrics we have available, and it seems foolish to reinvent the wheel. They failed to do a similar reinvention literally last year with Brawl as an offshoot of Commander and Standard. Brawl seems to have failed so spectacularly they pulled basically all event support. If that is any indicator, the safer bet for Wizards would just be going with the proven non-rotating format of Modern. Then again, Wizards decided to try Brawl in the first place when the community instantly spotted it was a bad idea, so I wouldn't entirely put it past Wizards to make a similar decision/mistake again. Given the Modern upside and the continued 2019 Modern support, however, I'd still lean towards Modern being the final product.