Yeah I would think if you are going to include it, you build around it. It DID work as a finisher in that Goblins deck, but then I remember 'oh right I'm playing goblins' and I get dumpstered by a good deck.
I dont know, I'm feeling pretty lost in the format right now, no deck is really fun for me to grind at the moment as there is just so much nonsense going on.
Yeah I would think if you are going to include it, you build around it. It DID work as a finisher in that Goblins deck, but then I remember 'oh right I'm playing goblins' and I get dumpstered by a good deck.
I dont know, I'm feeling pretty lost in the format right now, no deck is really fun for me to grind at the moment as there is just so much nonsense going on.
Im in a similar situation. The format keeps getting more refined and the decks I enjoy playing have fallen out of favor. So now im waiting on unbans, a radical meta shift or new cards to help out my decks, so I can justify playing fnm and mtgo. I just can't keep hemorrhaging tickets to play the few decks I enjoy playing. I could play and learn a new deck but have already had to do that multiple times because of meta shifts and bannings, now its just not worth it given that the competitive decks on average dont give the best play experience. The incentives just arent there.
Yeah I would think if you are going to include it, you build around it. It DID work as a finisher in that Goblins deck, but then I remember 'oh right I'm playing goblins' and I get dumpstered by a good deck.
I dont know, I'm feeling pretty lost in the format right now, no deck is really fun for me to grind at the moment as there is just so much nonsense going on.
I've been playing it as a 3 of in both Affinity and Jund. I think 3 is correct, 4 could be better but to me it all comes down to the math of keeping your Frenzy going and 4's seriously disrupt how many cards in you can go. 3 is a little odd for a build around number, but I think it's correct in this instance. I have tried 4 a couple times but didn't like it as much.
It's the best rate draw spell in the format, and it's in a color that isn't supposed to get card advantage. Even if the game only goes until T5 and you cast it on T4 it's 4 mana for a sorcery speed draw 4.
I really hate arguments like this when applied to Modern for a multitude of reasons, but namely;
1) If the color doesn't give card advantage, Modern doesn't restrict you from aggressively playing the best cards that do. Eg. See Burn splashing for Treasure Cruise
2) But my Midrange Bomb, beats other Midrange decks! So does Thragtusk, Obstinate Baloth, Huntmaster of the Fells, some weird dragon of the week, some unplayable Planeswalker or some awkward removal spell with card advantage attached to it.
When your argument contains one or more uses the conjunction if, your argument should be automatically scrutinized.
Yeah I would think if you are going to include it, you build around it. It DID work as a finisher in that Goblins deck, but then I remember 'oh right I'm playing goblins' and I get dumpstered by a good deck.
I dont know, I'm feeling pretty lost in the format right now, no deck is really fun for me to grind at the moment as there is just so much nonsense going on.
Im in a similar situation. The format keeps getting more refined and the decks I enjoy playing have fallen out of favor. So now im waiting on unbans, a radical meta shift or new cards to help out my decks, so I can justify playing fnm and mtgo. I just can't keep hemorrhaging tickets to play the few decks I enjoy playing. I could play and learn a new deck but have already had to do that multiple times because of meta shifts and bannings, now its just not worth it given that the competitive decks on average dont give the best play experience. The incentives just arent there.
Yeah, I burnt up over the last 4 days far more tickets than I want to admit. Its pretty gross honestly, just chasing that feeling of a deck you actually enjoy, switching it up, switching it up, switching it up, and then you look and do the math...and you've just thrown away a fair bit of 'money'.
It's the best rate draw spell in the format, and it's in a color that isn't supposed to get card advantage. Even if the game only goes until T5 and you cast it on T4 it's 4 mana for a sorcery speed draw 4.
I really hate arguments like this when applied to Modern for a multitude of reasons, but namely;
1) If the color doesn't give card advantage, Modern doesn't restrict you from aggressively playing the best cards that do. Eg. See Burn splashing for Treasure Cruise
2) But my Midrange Bomb, beats other Midrange decks! So does Thragtusk, Obstinate Baloth, Huntmaster of the Fells, some weird dragon of the week, some unplayable Planeswalker or some awkward removal spell with card advantage attached to it.
When your argument contains one or more uses the conjunction if, your argument should be automatically scrutinized.
#1 doesn't always apply because sometimes your decks mana constraints don't let you just add another color. Adding colors isn't free, sometimes it requires just switching a color out entirely, at which point you wind up with a totally different deck.
As for #2, it's stronger than all those others. The effect is stronger than most PW ultimates. I hate restating cards by rewording them, but while Frenzy is on the field every card you play for the rest of the game effectively has "draw a card" stapled onto it.
Yeah I would think if you are going to include it, you build around it. It DID work as a finisher in that Goblins deck, but then I remember 'oh right I'm playing goblins' and I get dumpstered by a good deck.
I dont know, I'm feeling pretty lost in the format right now, no deck is really fun for me to grind at the moment as there is just so much nonsense going on.
Im in a similar situation. The format keeps getting more refined and the decks I enjoy playing have fallen out of favor. So now im waiting on unbans, a radical meta shift or new cards to help out my decks, so I can justify playing fnm and mtgo. I just can't keep hemorrhaging tickets to play the few decks I enjoy playing. I could play and learn a new deck but have already had to do that multiple times because of meta shifts and bannings, now its just not worth it given that the competitive decks on average dont give the best play experience. The incentives just arent there.
Yeah, I burnt up over the last 4 days far more tickets than I want to admit. Its pretty gross honestly, just chasing that feeling of a deck you actually enjoy, switching it up, switching it up, switching it up, and then you look and do the math...and you've just thrown away a fair bit of 'money'.
Feels really bad right now.
I guess that's one of the nice things about only playing in paper is my "chase" is only about once or twice a week,.so it takes me longer to burn out on things. Still hopped up on UW at the moment, and based on my schedule the next few weeks, it'll hold till at least November lol. But I also have a big warm fuzzy motivator to keep playing it...
Yeah no, when I am grinding out games daily...always always always chasing that fix that I know, deep down, I'll never get...its expensive. I'm still pissed about it, have been all day. lol
Yeah no, when I am grinding out games daily...always always always chasing that fix that I know, deep down, I'll never get...its expensive. I'm still pissed about it, have been all day. lol
I know the ship has sailed on this concept for most, but Since 2012 I've steadily built a collection of format staples. I'm never more than a few playsets of cards away from building anything new that comes out, at which point it's just a decision of whether or not I want to. I just need 2 Teferi and I have UW. I just need the new Human and new tri-color land and I have humans. I just need Trophy and I have Jund again. I have Burn, Storm, and a few others.
Things keep changing but if you have a playset of the fetches and 2 each of the shocks you're already well on your way.
I'm at the point I may just trade in my Snaps and Tarns. I just know that if I do, Twin will be unbanned though.
Wouldn‘t that be a fair prize to pay?
Please also trade in your Batterskulls, while your at it.
I'm actually debating it all morning. The batterskulls I sent in weeks ago, hoping to trigger that unban but alas SFM is simply TOO POWERFUL for Modern. If I (MTGO) trade in my Snaps, Tarns, and Jace, thats over 200 tickets. Then I can get whatever I want really with what I already have.
It would indeed be worth it, to martyr my wallet on the altar of Twin.
I've had trouble figuring out what I like in the format for awhile. Experimental Frenzy has had me brewing a lot though. There's a lot of decks in the format that I like but none that I really want to play week in and week out. I haven't really felt that way since Twin and Pod.
That said, the format is more popular than ever and diversity is at an all time high. Modern is in a really great spot right now.
Yeah I don't have issue with Modern itself, the archetype variance I've seen in a week is more than I will type on my phone.
It's a personal issue of what I want to grind with.
I think though, 3 years is long enough to 'hold out' for. When I get back to my PC I'll sell out of UR and just wait till Twin is returned.
Although I have long since given up on them doing the right thing and returning Twin, I will not be selling out of my foil paper copies, or my dirt cheap pile of spares. If the day ever comes, it will be a glorious one at that.
I've had trouble figuring out what I like in the format for awhile. Experimental Frenzy has had me brewing a lot though. There's a lot of decks in the format that I like but none that I really want to play week in and week out. I haven't really felt that way since Twin and Pod.
That's what I feel as well. Also, many other Modern players I talk to have the same feeling. There is diversity though, but Wizards artificially removing most tempo decks(what I like playing) and most toolbox decks has left two big gaps on Modern, and this has an impact. On the other hand, many more categories have been filled and keep filling with many, new decks.
Hopefully, we will keep getting cards like Knight of Autumn and Crackling Drake for those two categories.
there is deck diversity but how much overlap in strategic diversity is there. I mean how different are hollow one, bridgevine and dredge really? how different are spirits and humans really?
I've had trouble figuring out what I like in the format for awhile. Experimental Frenzy has had me brewing a lot though. There's a lot of decks in the format that I like but none that I really want to play week in and week out. I haven't really felt that way since Twin and Pod.
That's what I feel as well. Also, many other Modern players I talk to have the same feeling. There is diversity though, but Wizards artificially removing most tempo decks(what I like playing) and most toolbox decks has left two big gaps on Modern, and this has an impact. On the other hand, many more categories have been filled and keep filling with many, new decks.
Hopefully, we will keep getting cards like Knight of Autumn and Crackling Drake for those two categories.
there is deck diversity but how much overlap in strategic diversity is there. I mean how different are hollow one, bridgevine and dredge really? how different are spirits and humans really?
I think there is enough variation between even those 3, to reflect different parts of a spectrum. I get where you are coming from on this, but I think even the minor differences are meaningful.
Either way, if Twin is unbanned in a few weeks, I would like a thank you for tempting fate by selling out (online anyway) of any UR staples.
I've had trouble figuring out what I like in the format for awhile. Experimental Frenzy has had me brewing a lot though. There's a lot of decks in the format that I like but none that I really want to play week in and week out. I haven't really felt that way since Twin and Pod.
That's what I feel as well. Also, many other Modern players I talk to have the same feeling. There is diversity though, but Wizards artificially removing most tempo decks(what I like playing) and most toolbox decks has left two big gaps on Modern, and this has an impact. On the other hand, many more categories have been filled and keep filling with many, new decks.
Hopefully, we will keep getting cards like Knight of Autumn and Crackling Drake for those two categories.
there is deck diversity but how much overlap in strategic diversity is there. I mean how different are hollow one, bridgevine and dredge really? how different are spirits and humans really?
Cannot speak about the graveyard decks. But about Spirits and Humans... both are aggro, but they fight in a different way. Humans are a problem when most of my removal are stripped by Freebooter or neutered by Meddling Mage. My main problem with Spirits are almost all of them fly, and the hexproof creatures.
There are even differences between UW Spirits, and Bant Spirits. In fact to say there is no Tempo, when Spirits clearly fill the space of Tempo, seems misleading.
I dont know, to me there are very very few true gaps in Modern's field. I dont think any of them will be filled any time soon, and I think (note, think) that the format is mostly healthy, but I believe we will need to see if Creeping Chill for example pushes GY strat's into too much of the pie.
There are even differences between UW Spirits, and Bant Spirits. In fact to say there is no Tempo, when Spirits clearly fill the space of Tempo, seems misleading.
I don't think I'm alone in thinking that it's very hard to reconcile the fact that the best tempo deck runs 28-32 creatures and none of their cards are Snapcaster Mage or Lightning Bolt.
There are even differences between UW Spirits, and Bant Spirits. In fact to say there is no Tempo, when Spirits clearly fill the space of Tempo, seems misleading.
I don't think I'm alone in thinking that it's very hard to reconcile the fact that the best tempo deck runs 28-32 creatures and none of their cards are Snapcaster Mage or Lightning Bolt.
Then what is tempo? Simply because its not Delver of Secrets?
There are two main types of Tempo decks: Fish decks and Grow decks. Fish decks are like Humans, Spirits, Merfolk, Slivers, etc. Decks that have mostly creature-based disruption. Grow decks usually play a few cheap threats that get bigger and a lot of spell-based disruption. So that's like Delver, UR Wizards, and kinda GDS as well. Notably, people who like Grow Tempo decks often don't like Fish Tempo, so when they say there aren't good Tempo decks and people suggest something like Humans or Merfolk, that's not really a satisfactory answer for them.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
So basically Go Wide or Go Tall. Where the Wide Decks are all about a critical mass of useful creatures and the Tall decks are all about protecting and buffing a few big threats. Makes sense good explanation, Wraithpk.
There are even differences between UW Spirits, and Bant Spirits. In fact to say there is no Tempo, when Spirits clearly fill the space of Tempo, seems misleading.
I dont know, to me there are very very few true gaps in Modern's field. I dont think any of them will be filled any time soon, and I think (note, think) that the format is mostly healthy, but I believe we will need to see if Creeping Chill for example pushes GY strat's into too much of the pie.
Agreed on what you said about tempo.
Anyway, I'm wondering if this is their christmas land hand or normal hand of Bant Spirits? Turn 1 noble hierarch into turn 2 Geist of Saint Traft is seven damage on turn 3 if I don't have anyone to block Traft. If I fetch shocked on turn 1, that's already half life gone. Deck is brutal..
There are two main types of Tempo decks: Fish decks and Grow decks. Fish decks are like Humans, Spirits, Merfolk, Slivers, etc. Decks that have mostly creature-based disruption. Grow decks usually play a few cheap threats that get bigger and a lot of spell-based disruption. So that's like Delver, UR Wizards, and kinda GDS as well. Notably, people who like Grow Tempo decks often don't like Fish Tempo, so when they say there aren't good Tempo decks and people suggest something like Humans or Merfolk, that's not really a satisfactory answer for them.
Tempo is totally viable. There are currently two top-tier Fish decks in Humans and Spirits. If you want to get technical, we could expand that to three viable options as there are two viable and different types of Spirits decks (UW and Bant). As for Grow, the top-tier player remains GDS. It's a consistent T8 finisher in MTGO Challenges and has three GP T8s in 2018. It also has numerous SCG successes. It's undeniably top-tier and is clearly the Delver successor. I also don't think anyone should be either lamenting the loss of Probe or sympathizing with those who are lamenting its loss. The card was extremely broken and created format issues. It's in the same category as the other dual Modern/Legacy bans, which is a ban category I suspect that Wizards will never touch again.
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I dont know, I'm feeling pretty lost in the format right now, no deck is really fun for me to grind at the moment as there is just so much nonsense going on.
Spirits
Im in a similar situation. The format keeps getting more refined and the decks I enjoy playing have fallen out of favor. So now im waiting on unbans, a radical meta shift or new cards to help out my decks, so I can justify playing fnm and mtgo. I just can't keep hemorrhaging tickets to play the few decks I enjoy playing. I could play and learn a new deck but have already had to do that multiple times because of meta shifts and bannings, now its just not worth it given that the competitive decks on average dont give the best play experience. The incentives just arent there.
I've been playing it as a 3 of in both Affinity and Jund. I think 3 is correct, 4 could be better but to me it all comes down to the math of keeping your Frenzy going and 4's seriously disrupt how many cards in you can go. 3 is a little odd for a build around number, but I think it's correct in this instance. I have tried 4 a couple times but didn't like it as much.
I really hate arguments like this when applied to Modern for a multitude of reasons, but namely;
1) If the color doesn't give card advantage, Modern doesn't restrict you from aggressively playing the best cards that do. Eg. See Burn splashing for Treasure Cruise
2) But my Midrange Bomb, beats other Midrange decks! So does Thragtusk, Obstinate Baloth, Huntmaster of the Fells, some weird dragon of the week, some unplayable Planeswalker or some awkward removal spell with card advantage attached to it.
When your argument contains one or more uses the conjunction if, your argument should be automatically scrutinized.
Yeah, I burnt up over the last 4 days far more tickets than I want to admit. Its pretty gross honestly, just chasing that feeling of a deck you actually enjoy, switching it up, switching it up, switching it up, and then you look and do the math...and you've just thrown away a fair bit of 'money'.
Feels really bad right now.
Spirits
#1 doesn't always apply because sometimes your decks mana constraints don't let you just add another color. Adding colors isn't free, sometimes it requires just switching a color out entirely, at which point you wind up with a totally different deck.
As for #2, it's stronger than all those others. The effect is stronger than most PW ultimates. I hate restating cards by rewording them, but while Frenzy is on the field every card you play for the rest of the game effectively has "draw a card" stapled onto it.
I guess that's one of the nice things about only playing in paper is my "chase" is only about once or twice a week,.so it takes me longer to burn out on things. Still hopped up on UW at the moment, and based on my schedule the next few weeks, it'll hold till at least November lol. But I also have a big warm fuzzy motivator to keep playing it...
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
Things keep changing but if you have a playset of the fetches and 2 each of the shocks you're already well on your way.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
In paper the only meaningful staples I didn't have was Nobles, and Goyf.
In digital however, I sold out on most and so to jump from deck to deck still has costs.
I'm at the point I may just trade in my Snaps and Tarns. I just know that if I do, Twin will be unbanned though.
Spirits
Wouldn‘t that be a fair prize to pay?
Please also trade in your Batterskulls, while you’re at it.
Legacy: Death&Taxes (almost there)
EDH: Squee, Goblin Nabob / Phelddagrif
I'm actually debating it all morning. The batterskulls I sent in weeks ago, hoping to trigger that unban but alas SFM is simply TOO POWERFUL for Modern. If I (MTGO) trade in my Snaps, Tarns, and Jace, thats over 200 tickets. Then I can get whatever I want really with what I already have.
It would indeed be worth it, to martyr my wallet on the altar of Twin.
You can all thank me later.
Spirits
That said, the format is more popular than ever and diversity is at an all time high. Modern is in a really great spot right now.
It's a personal issue of what I want to grind with.
I think though, 3 years is long enough to 'hold out' for. When I get back to my PC I'll sell out of UR and just wait till Twin is returned.
Spirits
Although I have long since given up on them doing the right thing and returning Twin, I will not be selling out of my foil paper copies, or my dirt cheap pile of spares. If the day ever comes, it will be a glorious one at that.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
there is deck diversity but how much overlap in strategic diversity is there. I mean how different are hollow one, bridgevine and dredge really? how different are spirits and humans really?
I think there is enough variation between even those 3, to reflect different parts of a spectrum. I get where you are coming from on this, but I think even the minor differences are meaningful.
Either way, if Twin is unbanned in a few weeks, I would like a thank you for tempting fate by selling out (online anyway) of any UR staples.
Spirits
Cannot speak about the graveyard decks. But about Spirits and Humans... both are aggro, but they fight in a different way. Humans are a problem when most of my removal are stripped by Freebooter or neutered by Meddling Mage. My main problem with Spirits are almost all of them fly, and the hexproof creatures.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I dont know, to me there are very very few true gaps in Modern's field. I dont think any of them will be filled any time soon, and I think (note, think) that the format is mostly healthy, but I believe we will need to see if Creeping Chill for example pushes GY strat's into too much of the pie.
Spirits
I don't think I'm alone in thinking that it's very hard to reconcile the fact that the best tempo deck runs 28-32 creatures and none of their cards are Snapcaster Mage or Lightning Bolt.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Then what is tempo? Simply because its not Delver of Secrets?
Spirits
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
So basically Go Wide or Go Tall. Where the Wide Decks are all about a critical mass of useful creatures and the Tall decks are all about protecting and buffing a few big threats. Makes sense good explanation, Wraithpk.
Agreed on what you said about tempo.
Anyway, I'm wondering if this is their christmas land hand or normal hand of Bant Spirits? Turn 1 noble hierarch into turn 2 Geist of Saint Traft is seven damage on turn 3 if I don't have anyone to block Traft. If I fetch shocked on turn 1, that's already half life gone. Deck is brutal..
Nice explanation.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread