I'm not terribly surprised that some blue mages continue to complain about a perceived lack of cards, but let's get some perspective. UW is Tier 1 in overwhelming part due to not one, not two, but THREE new cards: Opt, Search, and Teferi. Not to mention Field, although I admit that wasn't necessarily designed for blue decks. Not to mention the JTMS unban. Blue has PLENTY of targeted, incidental, and returned tools. Meanwhile, BGx continues to struggle despite Push and the released BBE. They get a powerful new answer and some blue shift the sctipt towards blue's perceived issues. These kinds of complaints really should stop.
I'm not complaining about Blue in general. In fact, I'm not complaining at all. The word is probably closer to begging, for something I dont need, but want?
Ionize reminds me of Undermine, If I recall correctly most of you were wishing for an Absorb/Undermine reprint a few months ago. A few of those bad boys with a Snapcaster in the midst can get the job done pretty quickly.
Particularly since it's now in red which can allow for just straight UR builds or UWR instead of Grixis. Bolt, Helix, Snapcaster, Wizard's Lightning, Ionize. Not saying it's going to be the best ever, but it seems like a pretty solid deck outright.
-Incoming Dimir Tempo Mage Comment, Ignore at your pleasure-
Perspective? Yeah, UW is good, I own the deck. Not looking for Miracles to get better, there are other blue decks you know. This "blue mages" crusade you are on doesnt need to be rehashed. You dont want to read the concerns? You can ignore the comments. But Dimir has been overcosted or absolute trash the previous two times we have been to ravnica, so no you cant hush me up or keep me from expecting better cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
Just find it interesting that GB gets one of best removal spells ever printed, while UR gets a spell arguably worse than multiple other similar spells. It's just an observation.
I mean honestly, its hard to complain for anyone right now with how the Modern meta has shaped up. We are down to complaint's about niche decks at this point.
Just find it interesting that GB gets one of best removal spells ever printed, while UR gets a spell arguably worse than multiple other similar spells. It's just an observation.
but blue should not look allways to the best card in a set. Compare it with RW sometimes as an example. Did they become anythink good since long time?
Izzet is another major guild this set next to Golgari, story wise and they get one of the worst 3 CMC counters ever. Along with a mechanic that eh WOTC seems awfully careful not to overpower leading to an over correction.
Just find it interesting that GB gets one of best removal spells ever printed, while UR gets a spell arguably worse than multiple other similar spells. It's just an observation.
but blue should not look allways to the best card in a set. Compare it with RW sometimes as an example. Did they become anythink good since long time?
Then let the RW players step up and voice their concerns?
We are all just shouting into the void anyway, so its pretty irrelevant.
Speak for yourself I have complained plenty about RW getting the shaft. Why does RW never get removal as good as GB?
Also Boros got a 3 CMC Board Wipe with worthless lifelink because most of their creatures have 3 or less toughness and thus instantly die without ever getting to use said lifelink. Talk About a NonBo.
Just find it interesting that GB gets one of best removal spells ever printed, while UR gets a spell arguably worse than multiple other similar spells. It's just an observation.
The same kind of observation could have been made when Teferi, one of the best planeswalkers ever printed, was released. Why didn't my colors get a busted planeswalker?
I actually believe Assassin's Trophy is being a bit overhyped for the current modern meta. It's an instant speed catch all but it doesn't solve most of BGx problem MUs which revolve either around recursive threats ala Dredge or against UW, where you still get 3 for 1'd if you hit a Teferi. Against Tron (if you go after the lands) it's a 2 mana Ghost Quarter which may still not be enough if it's not backed up by some kind of fast clock, it's definitely a maindeck improvement for that particular MU though.
Red had Chandra TOD at 4 CMC, Blue had Jace TMS 4 CMC, Black has two Lilis 3 CMC, Colorless has Karn and Ugin....Green has nothing. Granted I say Teferi got a good card because he is an oldschool character who joined the Gatewatch. No excuse for Nissa's being weak I guess. But I should note for the record that most at release thought Teferi was not all that strong so I dispute the notion that WOTC went out of their way to push Teferi. Most thought Karn was the better of the pair.
The main point that I agree with is that cheap 1-for-1 removal is plenty and dime a dozen. Granted, the ability to hit an Inkmoth nexus or a man land is good but overall this isn't a game changer.
RW is the king combination of sweepers and prison cards, it has much more potential than what it is given.
The bottom line is that Ionize is embarrassing from a design standpoint. It's a glorified Uncommon-level card being propped up at the face-card of Izzet. It's a symptom of more than a decade of powering down things that interact with the stack and another example of endless sea of frustration from UR players.
Just find it interesting that GB gets one of best removal spells ever printed, while UR gets a spell arguably worse than multiple other similar spells. It's just an observation.
Pick one.
Pick one what? They design design bad counterspells, and have for at least a decade. These are not statements at odds with each other.
Edit: and mostly what I mean by this is the trend of making removal towards cheap + relatively meaningless downside and counters to expensive with usually-not-worth-it upside.
Imagine if instead of Ionize, we got: "UR: Counter target spell, its controller searches for a basic land."
Imagine if instead of Counterflux we got: "UR: Counter target spell CMC3 or less. This can't be countered."
And then wonder why UR players are salty about the new BG spell and their terrible countershock.
When it comes to multi-color answers (or cards in general really) BG and UW are so far ahead of everyone else it's hysterical. WoTC seems to have a problem with balancing power with other guilds. I love UR and UB, and while UR has Electrolyze, UB has nothing (I don't really count a color "shifted" negate that tacks on 2 life loss as something unique...). I do think WoTC should not be so one minded when it comes to guilds. Stuff like Lightning Helix / Searing Meditation / etc. would be nice to see more of from Boros instead of just a bunch of bad weenies. At least this time UB isn't just mill.
I feel like UB and UG are the two color pairings in MTG modernity that almost universally their multi-color cards are garbage. Every other color pairing have good cards. So far it doesn't look like anything is changing in that regard.
Would this be too good?
Good UB Card UB
Instant - R
Choose one or both -
Destroy target creature with power 2 or more.
Return target instant or sorcery other than <card name> from your graveyard to your hand.
BG gets stuff like Abrupt Decay, Pulse, Trophy, etc. UW has D. Sphere / Verdict / Teferi / etc., RW has Helix / Nahiri / etc., GW/RG have a bunch of under-costed good value / disruptive creatures and stuff like A. Command/Ancient Grudge, UR has Electrolyze, Keranos, (technically Mantis Rider), Staticaster, WB has Lingering Souls, Unburial Rites, Sin Collector, etc.
UG and UB have *****. This was a good time for WoTC to give some of the guilds on the short end of the stick some love, but instead they seem to be continuing the status quo. BG and UW will get the good stuff.
At least Dimir can fall back and being historically the two strongest colors in its pair. That plays out more in EDH, Legacy and I would think Vintage although I know zilch about that format.
UG though yeah they get nothing outside of EDH by Design.
I think its a bit early to be complaining about Azorious getting the good stuff though this time in Ravnica. Yeah Teferi is great but how many actual UW cards does the standard UW control deck actually play besides Teferi? Celestial Colonnade? Detention Sphere. That is not really an example of a color pair or guild itself being favored.
The average RG, BG, BR or RW deck plays more cards using actual cards with both mana symbols.
Weird thinking about it Red has a lot a good multi color cards except Izzet funnily enough.
Nahiri and etc. For RW? Lol ...call me this etc please..what is this? Maybe nothing?
Boros Charm, Ajani Vengeant, Reckoner is super niche with Blasphemous Act (feel free not to count this one), Deflecting Palm, Figure of Destiny is super niche like Reckoner, and Wear//Tear. Please, name me some UB cards on par with stuff like Helix, Charm, Wear//Tear, Nahiri, etc.? UB has some fringe stuff like Shadow of Doubt, a literal Negate that tacks on lose 2 life, and Tezz AoB. That's it. Ok, maybe Ashiok is niche and people like playing it, but it's not a good card. Oh, I guess the mill cards....Glimpse and Mind Funeral. That's silly amount of bad compared to every other guild's multi-color cards except UG.
Autumn, while you're right that UB has good mono-colored cards in Legacy (obviously...blue is the best color and black second best in the format), I think it would be less represented without a card like Baleful Strix. That card pushes UBx decks into serious tournament contenders in Legacy. Modern has nothing even remotely close to that for UB.
We dont need 35,6 maybe cards...it is More important in face of modern having 1 great card like teferi or now BG will become. Take the Bad Rest away, we dont need it
We dont need 35,6 maybe cards...it is More important in face of modern having 1 great card like teferi or now BG will become. Take the Bad Rest away, we dont need it
I disagree. 'Bad' cards become the glue to put complete decks together. Lantern is a pile of bad cards. UR 'Lock' is a pile of bad cards. I do believe every colour pair should have some good cards in their identity, but the issue is, people dont really agree with Wizards on the identity of some pairs.
UB = Mill, is a pretty obvious one that has caused the colour pair some issues.
We dont need 35,6 maybe cards...it is More important in face of modern having 1 great card like teferi or now BG will become. Take the Bad Rest away, we dont need it
I disagree. 'Bad' cards become the glue to put complete decks together. Lantern is a pile of bad cards. UR 'Lock' is a pile of bad cards. I do believe every colour pair should have some good cards in their identity, but the issue is, people dont really agree with Wizards on the identity of some pairs.
UB = Mill, is a pretty obvious one that has caused the colour pair some issues.
I think the main disagreement is how broad any color pair should be...
For Instance I would expect RW: To Have Aggro Creatures, Great Spot Removal of anything, Great Board Wipes and some good curve topping Angels and Dragons, some burn and life gain spells.... Whereas WOTC believes RW should only ever care about creature combat and extra rounds of combat. It wouldn't be such a problem but again Ravnica warps and defines most two color pairs even when the set is not on Ravnica.
BG though basically has cards that do everything you expect the color do to do...you want graveyard recursion we got that, land ramp yep, big creatures sure, small creatures sure and you want be able to kill everything fine by us.
Basically a color pair can be strong because it has strong dual color cards, strong single color cards or a good mix of both. And some color pairs are crippled cause WOTC doesn't really like key parts of their color pie such as cheap counterspells or boardwipes or strong mill cards, etc. Now they can say that their just following color pie but really what is the best RW removal spell? It should have removal as good as BG or BW based on color pie but its got nothing close.
just goes to show that players are greedy as hell. one good card is spoiled and suddenly people are going full on emo.
magic sets are designed to accomplish a long list of things. pushing a bunch of cards equally across colors/color combos so modern players dont feel jilted just isnt a priority. for one because it might not align with standard and limited, and two because its unfeasible if they ever hope to contain power creep. most decks are a accumulation of cards spanning sets over years and years.
dont get me wrong i sincerely hope that grixis gets something this set, because they have 2 guilds featured. that and the color combo is sorta being propped up by GDS. however GBx has been looking relatively unimpressive, and as an archetype that prides itself on playing longer interactive games, its gains are a net gain for the format (imo). a cause for celebration, not throwing shade.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Izzet is another major guild this set next to Golgari, story wise and they get one of the worst 3 CMC counters ever. Along with a mechanic that eh WOTC seems awfully careful not to overpower leading to an over correction.
I don't know if it's that bad. I think Undermine was decent back in the day. Admittedly, it hit for 3 damage instead of 2 but it also was a little tougher to cast (UUB versus 1UR).
Actually, how about doing something like that? UUR, counter target spell, deal 2 damage to any target. What do you think of that?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm not complaining about Blue in general. In fact, I'm not complaining at all. The word is probably closer to begging, for something I dont need, but want?
Coveting? Maybe?
Spirits
Particularly since it's now in red which can allow for just straight UR builds or UWR instead of Grixis. Bolt, Helix, Snapcaster, Wizard's Lightning, Ionize. Not saying it's going to be the best ever, but it seems like a pretty solid deck outright.
Perspective? Yeah, UW is good, I own the deck. Not looking for Miracles to get better, there are other blue decks you know. This "blue mages" crusade you are on doesnt need to be rehashed. You dont want to read the concerns? You can ignore the comments. But Dimir has been overcosted or absolute trash the previous two times we have been to ravnica, so no you cant hush me up or keep me from expecting better cards.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Spirits
Izzet is another major guild this set next to Golgari, story wise and they get one of the worst 3 CMC counters ever. Along with a mechanic that eh WOTC seems awfully careful not to overpower leading to an over correction.
Then let the RW players step up and voice their concerns?
We are all just shouting into the void anyway, so its pretty irrelevant.
Spirits
Also Boros got a 3 CMC Board Wipe with worthless lifelink because most of their creatures have 3 or less toughness and thus instantly die without ever getting to use said lifelink. Talk About a NonBo.
The same kind of observation could have been made when Teferi, one of the best planeswalkers ever printed, was released. Why didn't my colors get a busted planeswalker?
I actually believe Assassin's Trophy is being a bit overhyped for the current modern meta. It's an instant speed catch all but it doesn't solve most of BGx problem MUs which revolve either around recursive threats ala Dredge or against UW, where you still get 3 for 1'd if you hit a Teferi. Against Tron (if you go after the lands) it's a 2 mana Ghost Quarter which may still not be enough if it's not backed up by some kind of fast clock, it's definitely a maindeck improvement for that particular MU though.
does that rare izzet counterspell blow? yeah sure it does. you know what else blows? 90% of rares and mythics in literally every set.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)RW is the king combination of sweepers and prison cards, it has much more potential than what it is given.
Pick one what? They design design bad counterspells, and have for at least a decade. These are not statements at odds with each other.
Edit: and mostly what I mean by this is the trend of making removal towards cheap + relatively meaningless downside and counters to expensive with usually-not-worth-it upside.
Imagine if instead of Ionize, we got: "UR: Counter target spell, its controller searches for a basic land."
Imagine if instead of Counterflux we got: "UR: Counter target spell CMC3 or less. This can't be countered."
And then wonder why UR players are salty about the new BG spell and their terrible countershock.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I feel like UB and UG are the two color pairings in MTG modernity that almost universally their multi-color cards are garbage. Every other color pairing have good cards. So far it doesn't look like anything is changing in that regard.
Would this be too good?
Good UB Card UB
Instant - R
Choose one or both -
Destroy target creature with power 2 or more.
Return target instant or sorcery other than <card name> from your graveyard to your hand.
BG gets stuff like Abrupt Decay, Pulse, Trophy, etc. UW has D. Sphere / Verdict / Teferi / etc., RW has Helix / Nahiri / etc., GW/RG have a bunch of under-costed good value / disruptive creatures and stuff like A. Command/Ancient Grudge, UR has Electrolyze, Keranos, (technically Mantis Rider), Staticaster, WB has Lingering Souls, Unburial Rites, Sin Collector, etc.
UG and UB have *****. This was a good time for WoTC to give some of the guilds on the short end of the stick some love, but instead they seem to be continuing the status quo. BG and UW will get the good stuff.
Spirits
UG though yeah they get nothing outside of EDH by Design.
I think its a bit early to be complaining about Azorious getting the good stuff though this time in Ravnica. Yeah Teferi is great but how many actual UW cards does the standard UW control deck actually play besides Teferi? Celestial Colonnade? Detention Sphere. That is not really an example of a color pair or guild itself being favored.
The average RG, BG, BR or RW deck plays more cards using actual cards with both mana symbols.
Weird thinking about it Red has a lot a good multi color cards except Izzet funnily enough.
Boros Charm, Ajani Vengeant, Reckoner is super niche with Blasphemous Act (feel free not to count this one), Deflecting Palm, Figure of Destiny is super niche like Reckoner, and Wear//Tear. Please, name me some UB cards on par with stuff like Helix, Charm, Wear//Tear, Nahiri, etc.? UB has some fringe stuff like Shadow of Doubt, a literal Negate that tacks on lose 2 life, and Tezz AoB. That's it. Ok, maybe Ashiok is niche and people like playing it, but it's not a good card. Oh, I guess the mill cards....Glimpse and Mind Funeral. That's silly amount of bad compared to every other guild's multi-color cards except UG.
Autumn, while you're right that UB has good mono-colored cards in Legacy (obviously...blue is the best color and black second best in the format), I think it would be less represented without a card like Baleful Strix. That card pushes UBx decks into serious tournament contenders in Legacy. Modern has nothing even remotely close to that for UB.
I disagree. 'Bad' cards become the glue to put complete decks together. Lantern is a pile of bad cards. UR 'Lock' is a pile of bad cards. I do believe every colour pair should have some good cards in their identity, but the issue is, people dont really agree with Wizards on the identity of some pairs.
UB = Mill, is a pretty obvious one that has caused the colour pair some issues.
Spirits
I think the main disagreement is how broad any color pair should be...
For Instance I would expect RW: To Have Aggro Creatures, Great Spot Removal of anything, Great Board Wipes and some good curve topping Angels and Dragons, some burn and life gain spells.... Whereas WOTC believes RW should only ever care about creature combat and extra rounds of combat. It wouldn't be such a problem but again Ravnica warps and defines most two color pairs even when the set is not on Ravnica.
BG though basically has cards that do everything you expect the color do to do...you want graveyard recursion we got that, land ramp yep, big creatures sure, small creatures sure and you want be able to kill everything fine by us.
Basically a color pair can be strong because it has strong dual color cards, strong single color cards or a good mix of both. And some color pairs are crippled cause WOTC doesn't really like key parts of their color pie such as cheap counterspells or boardwipes or strong mill cards, etc. Now they can say that their just following color pie but really what is the best RW removal spell? It should have removal as good as BG or BW based on color pie but its got nothing close.
magic sets are designed to accomplish a long list of things. pushing a bunch of cards equally across colors/color combos so modern players dont feel jilted just isnt a priority. for one because it might not align with standard and limited, and two because its unfeasible if they ever hope to contain power creep. most decks are a accumulation of cards spanning sets over years and years.
dont get me wrong i sincerely hope that grixis gets something this set, because they have 2 guilds featured. that and the color combo is sorta being propped up by GDS. however GBx has been looking relatively unimpressive, and as an archetype that prides itself on playing longer interactive games, its gains are a net gain for the format (imo). a cause for celebration, not throwing shade.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Actually, how about doing something like that? UUR, counter target spell, deal 2 damage to any target. What do you think of that?