oh yeah for sure. i think counters company would see way more play if you didnt have to manually do everything.
a skill that i consider to be under appreciated in paper magic is how well you handle your cards and organize/track the gamestate. people who are good at it can play considerably faster and give away less information. for instance anyone who has played a snapcaster deck in paper should know how damning it is to mismanage your graveyard.
"oh my opponent drew a card and is suddenly interested in digging through their graveyard that they have ignored for the past X turns. I wonder what they drew"
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
Was that tweet before of after made a Lantern primer himself?
Yeah I suspect Lantern's skill level if a bit overrated. Getting to the control position does require some maneuvering but once the Bridge is set it gives me the impression the only thing you care are cards that blow Bridge or win through a Bridge, which are a very small subset of cards for most decks. The deck really needs a way to close the game fast though, an opponent used Jace for good effect here.
We truly need a team trio of closest-to-Stasis - Lantern - No win condition UW. Stream would be epic.
We truly need a team trio of closest-to-Stasis - Lantern - No win condition UW. Stream would be epic.
If Wizard's ever reprints Stasis with the awesome MTGO art, I am entirely making a Stasis deck.
As to the event this weekend, I fully admit this was the first time I've ever seen Stain the Mind be used. Interesting bit of kit for the Elves decks that lean black instead of white. I imagine it's quite useful for them via combo.
The MTGO clock and speed of execution is why I gave up on Knightfall
It's a real issue, even for UWR and I assume UW on MTGO.
It's a massive issue and not only for modern decks (enchantress comes to mind). I remember with twin, wise players would force you to do the entire combo until you either won or did a misclick. It was worthwhile because a misclick is dead easy and in either case the clock was ticking against the twin player.
Yeah I suspect Lantern's skill level if a bit overrated. Getting to the control position does require some maneuvering but once the Bridge is set it gives me the impression the only thing you care are cards that blow Bridge or win through a Bridge, which are a very small subset of cards for most decks.
Have you ever proxied the deck and played a few games with it? It's no joke.
yeah there is not much to be done about it other than getting proficient at executing the combo and hoping people concede more often than not.
clock management is definitely something that sets mtgo apart from paper. i do wish that there was some sort of chess clock system in place for paper, but its just impossible. the judge system to manage slow play blows. calls are made without much information, are open to interpretation, and naturally favor the person who called the judge over. its just distasteful all around.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
yeah there is not much to be done about it other than getting proficient at executing the combo and hoping people concede more often than not.
clock management is definitely something that sets mtgo apart from paper. i do wish that there was some sort of chess clock system in place for paper, but its just impossible. the judge system to manage slow play blows. calls are made without much information, are open to interpretation, and naturally favor the person who called the judge over. its just distasteful all around.
If there was a clock in paper like on MTGO, I would never get draws with Lantern. I don't think in the past year of playing it on MTGO I finished a round with less than 10 minutes left on the clock unless it was a suuuuuuper grindy match up like UW Control. My opponents on the other hand, would either time out, or finish the round with just a minute or so left. Lantern isn't slow because of the pilot. Lantern is slow because of the opponent.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I am not biased, I don't play Lantern(although I do like it, because it wins so much), but I am sure Lantern Control is the best Modern deck by far in a metagame that it's not Tron heavy.
If you begin playing Lantern more, you will realize that Ensnaring Bridge is: "Sorcery, 3: Opponent can't win the game" half of the times. Has Modern community understand what does this mean? No, not really. The deck is overpowered. Also, Skitzafreak is kind of right.
Little to none people are properly skilled enough to play Lantern Control(well, maybe Kanister and Sam Black, maybe BBD also), so down to 3 people.
@ktk: I agree with you also. But the reason pros don't pick it up that much, is because of several issues.
1) Time issues. Pros don't want to draw 1-2 times per 15 rounds, because a draw is a loss most of the times.
2) Knowability/style of the deck. When you try to be the best Lantern pilot, you have to think differently. Most pros don't have the experience playing such a deck, because Standard/Draft formats are mainly creatures.dec
3) Time needed to learn the deck's inside outs. You have to invest too much time on it. Like 3 months of full preparation. Are pros willing to do that? Well, on a PT yes.
Those reasons all together are the reasons Lantern is not being played that much, even if it's the clear cut best modern deck at the moment(Hoomans being close).
I used to believe in this idea that Lantern is the best deck, but not after playing it for a while. Maybe it could be a best deck without restrictions like time and drawing in paper events, but not "by far." It has weaknesses like any other deck, even without tron. It has a tough time against aggro and somw times you just cant find your lock in time.
Things like irl restrictions is still a real factor and is a reason we hardly see it in paper events yet see it in online top 8s
As for the current recent meta;
This weekend looked to be a good weekend for Control and confirmed my notion Jeskai Control is top tier in the current meta
Wow! "Unfair" fought back. I was hoping "fair" was the new thing; I wanted to run Amulet or Titanshift in Vegas.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'd be interested in an overall meta breakdown (of course, who wouldnt) for that event, but if the narrative was 'humans is getting trumped by UWR' then the answer is Tron.
A version of this deck gave me my 4th loss in the last Las Vegas Modern GP. Game 1, turn 1 Temple/pass, turn 2 Temple Thought-Knot Seer, turn 3 some land/Thought-Knot Seer. I lose a while later. Game 2, turn 1 Temple/pass, turn 2 Temple Thought-Knot Seer, turn 3 some land/Thought-Knot Seer/saw I had 2 Prime Times and scooped. Game 3 happened like both other games, except turn 4 came a 3rd Thought-Knot Seer. I literally saw no other creatures that mattered in our match. (Yes, I'm salty, ) My friend came to see my 3rd game and saw me laughing in a GP Day 2 match. I was laughing because I knew that no matter how I shuffle his deck, the same thing would happen and it did. Funny times...
I wish I remembered my opponent's name. We were talking afterward and he told me that he had been getting 5-0s online, but I never looked it up. His list was actually really good. He had Dark Confidant and Mirran Crusader at the time. Insane deck, but I've heard the manabase is atrocious.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
yeah those BW versions had crappy mana. not surprising they fell out of favor.
the colorless centric or mono-white versions arent so bad. i played the more traditional build with vials and TKS splashed in, but found i wanted to play the deck less and less until it was just collecting dust.
2 of those 'eldrazi taxes' lists look more like the colorless eldrazi deck with some cat jesus and thalia thrown in instead of serum powder.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
After several events confirming it, the #TronSucks and #FreeCloudpost hashtags will have to wait. Sigh.
What is Eldrazi taxes anyway?
Tron can't stay down, it's got too much power, until UWR finds a way to beat both it, and Humans, it's a cycle.
Eldrazi Taxes is EASILY my most hated deck in the format.
Displacer, Thoughtknot, Thalia, Arbiter and Ghost Quarter, with Smashers sometimes as the curve topper.
It's a personal hell of mine...
Seems tricky Humans you want sweepers and Tron if you cannot counter them on cast, you want spells to take out High Loyalty Walkers and Large Eldrazis... It might be doable theoretically its possible for an Azorius Command. Chose 2: Wrath, Exile Target, Counter, Draw....
yeah that sounds busted AF and wouldnt be remotely printable unless it costed 5+ mana and required UUUWWX.
control either needs a high density of land disruption and or more countermagic with cheap threats to play the tempo game. tron has inevitability as it should.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
yeah that sounds busted AF and wouldnt be remotely printable unless it costed 5+ mana and required UUUWWX.
I think it could reasonably cost UUUWW. It just would be a pretty pushed card. But yeah, I don't think we need something like that lurking in Modern right now, lol.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I didn't balance it lol I just listed the generic abilities. Obviously you are going to tune it.
Wrath CMC 3 or Lower
Place Target CMC 4 or more on the bottom of your opponents Library
Draw 2
Counter Target noncreature Spell unless your opponent pays 2
I have said before card design is not my strength, my point is more technically all those abilities are in the UW wheelhouse. And as Teferi showed any boost is more likely coming from new cards, the ban list is not reliable.
Besides there is always one busted card like Boros Charm or Kolaghan's Command or Fiery Confluence and Cryptic Command...its good to be Red apparently.
And WOTC seems to be pushing the power into a few chase cards these days.
yeah that sounds busted AF and wouldnt be remotely printable unless it costed 5+ mana and required UUUWWX.
control either needs a high density of land disruption and or more countermagic with cheap threats to play the tempo game. tron has inevitability as it should.
Yeah, it should surprise nobody that the runner up on this event was UW control with the full Sea's/Field of Ruin package.
Thats what it takes, and thats simply a bridge too far for me. I wont warp my deck to that degree just to have game against an archetype that SHOULD be beating up on Control.
yeah another block with the guilds should give some nice goodies UR/UW/UB (lets be real UG isnt getting anything). more modal cards is a high possibility.
really interested to see where they take the set, since its the first attempt at a third revisiting of a plane. i believe izzet is in the fall set and azorius in the spring; which is nice cause its not like UW needs much help in standard atm.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
I expect strong Blue cards since I expect Jace to be a central figure. Which can only mean good things for control as I joked somewhere else...Teferi and Jace, Ebony and Ivory together in perfect harmony.
Eh well I wouldn't say that...it is losing Settle the Wreckage right? Everything but DOM and Core Set rotates with GOR?
not entirely sure. i believe kaladesh and amonkhet rotate out, so fall standard should be ixalan, rivals, dom, m19, and guilds of rav.
for UW that means losing access to fumigate, which is big, but another white wrath being in the core set is likely.
as for new walkers. im not sure what they are going to do, especially for the core set. wizards has said that they want to downplay the gatewatch because that is what feedback was telling them. i think ral zarek has the highest chance of being the blue walker in the ravnica block.
a new UR (possibly grixis) walker that was modern playable would be nice.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
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a skill that i consider to be under appreciated in paper magic is how well you handle your cards and organize/track the gamestate. people who are good at it can play considerably faster and give away less information. for instance anyone who has played a snapcaster deck in paper should know how damning it is to mismanage your graveyard.
"oh my opponent drew a card and is suddenly interested in digging through their graveyard that they have ignored for the past X turns. I wonder what they drew"
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Yeah I suspect Lantern's skill level if a bit overrated. Getting to the control position does require some maneuvering but once the Bridge is set it gives me the impression the only thing you care are cards that blow Bridge or win through a Bridge, which are a very small subset of cards for most decks. The deck really needs a way to close the game fast though, an opponent used Jace for good effect here.
We truly need a team trio of closest-to-Stasis - Lantern - No win condition UW. Stream would be epic.
If Wizard's ever reprints Stasis with the awesome MTGO art, I am entirely making a Stasis deck.
As to the event this weekend, I fully admit this was the first time I've ever seen Stain the Mind be used. Interesting bit of kit for the Elves decks that lean black instead of white. I imagine it's quite useful for them via combo.
Modern: Storm
Legacy: ANT
It's a massive issue and not only for modern decks (enchantress comes to mind). I remember with twin, wise players would force you to do the entire combo until you either won or did a misclick. It was worthwhile because a misclick is dead easy and in either case the clock was ticking against the twin player.
Have you ever proxied the deck and played a few games with it? It's no joke.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
clock management is definitely something that sets mtgo apart from paper. i do wish that there was some sort of chess clock system in place for paper, but its just impossible. the judge system to manage slow play blows. calls are made without much information, are open to interpretation, and naturally favor the person who called the judge over. its just distasteful all around.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)If there was a clock in paper like on MTGO, I would never get draws with Lantern. I don't think in the past year of playing it on MTGO I finished a round with less than 10 minutes left on the clock unless it was a suuuuuuper grindy match up like UW Control. My opponents on the other hand, would either time out, or finish the round with just a minute or so left. Lantern isn't slow because of the pilot. Lantern is slow because of the opponent.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I used to believe in this idea that Lantern is the best deck, but not after playing it for a while. Maybe it could be a best deck without restrictions like time and drawing in paper events, but not "by far." It has weaknesses like any other deck, even without tron. It has a tough time against aggro and somw times you just cant find your lock in time.
Things like irl restrictions is still a real factor and is a reason we hardly see it in paper events yet see it in online top 8s
As for the current recent meta;
This weekend looked to be a good weekend for Control and confirmed my notion Jeskai Control is top tier in the current meta
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Top 32 meta:
6 Gx Tron (including 1st)
3 Affinity
3 Eldrazi Taxes
3 Humans
2 Hollow One
2 UW Control
2 Dredge
2 Jeskai Control
1 Bant Company
1 Blue Moon
1 GW Company
1 Titan Shift
1 Mardu Pyromancer
1 Jund
1 Vizier Combo (Evolution)
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Ponza
Spirits
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Spirits
What is Eldrazi taxes anyway?
Tron can't stay down, it's got too much power, until UWR finds a way to beat both it, and Humans, it's a cycle.
Eldrazi Taxes is EASILY my most hated deck in the format.
Displacer, Thoughtknot, Thalia, Arbiter and Ghost Quarter, with Smashers sometimes as the curve topper.
It's a personal hell of mine...
Spirits
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-eldrazi-taxes
A version of this deck gave me my 4th loss in the last Las Vegas Modern GP. Game 1, turn 1 Temple/pass, turn 2 Temple Thought-Knot Seer, turn 3 some land/Thought-Knot Seer. I lose a while later. Game 2, turn 1 Temple/pass, turn 2 Temple Thought-Knot Seer, turn 3 some land/Thought-Knot Seer/saw I had 2 Prime Times and scooped. Game 3 happened like both other games, except turn 4 came a 3rd Thought-Knot Seer. I literally saw no other creatures that mattered in our match. (Yes, I'm salty, ) My friend came to see my 3rd game and saw me laughing in a GP Day 2 match. I was laughing because I knew that no matter how I shuffle his deck, the same thing would happen and it did. Funny times...
I wish I remembered my opponent's name. We were talking afterward and he told me that he had been getting 5-0s online, but I never looked it up. His list was actually really good. He had Dark Confidant and Mirran Crusader at the time. Insane deck, but I've heard the manabase is atrocious.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)the colorless centric or mono-white versions arent so bad. i played the more traditional build with vials and TKS splashed in, but found i wanted to play the deck less and less until it was just collecting dust.
2 of those 'eldrazi taxes' lists look more like the colorless eldrazi deck with some cat jesus and thalia thrown in instead of serum powder.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Seems tricky Humans you want sweepers and Tron if you cannot counter them on cast, you want spells to take out High Loyalty Walkers and Large Eldrazis... It might be doable theoretically its possible for an Azorius Command. Chose 2: Wrath, Exile Target, Counter, Draw....
control either needs a high density of land disruption and or more countermagic with cheap threats to play the tempo game. tron has inevitability as it should.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)I think it could reasonably cost UUUWW. It just would be a pretty pushed card. But yeah, I don't think we need something like that lurking in Modern right now, lol.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Wrath CMC 3 or Lower
Place Target CMC 4 or more on the bottom of your opponents Library
Draw 2
Counter Target noncreature Spell unless your opponent pays 2
I have said before card design is not my strength, my point is more technically all those abilities are in the UW wheelhouse. And as Teferi showed any boost is more likely coming from new cards, the ban list is not reliable.
Besides there is always one busted card like Boros Charm or Kolaghan's Command or Fiery Confluence and Cryptic Command...its good to be Red apparently.
And WOTC seems to be pushing the power into a few chase cards these days.
Yeah, it should surprise nobody that the runner up on this event was UW control with the full Sea's/Field of Ruin package.
Thats what it takes, and thats simply a bridge too far for me. I wont warp my deck to that degree just to have game against an archetype that SHOULD be beating up on Control.
I mean its a feature, not a bug.
Spirits
really interested to see where they take the set, since its the first attempt at a third revisiting of a plane. i believe izzet is in the fall set and azorius in the spring; which is nice cause its not like UW needs much help in standard atm.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)Eh well I wouldn't say that...it is losing Settle the Wreckage right? Everything but DOM and Core Set rotates with GOR?
for UW that means losing access to fumigate, which is big, but another white wrath being in the core set is likely.
as for new walkers. im not sure what they are going to do, especially for the core set. wizards has said that they want to downplay the gatewatch because that is what feedback was telling them. i think ral zarek has the highest chance of being the blue walker in the ravnica block.
a new UR (possibly grixis) walker that was modern playable would be nice.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)