All I know is I am looking forward to playing a Jace behind a protective Ensnaring Bridge and then making sure I can empty my hand by Brainstorming away anything I can't cast for the turn. Maybe I'll draw a Mishra's Bauble or Mox Opal to get my hand size to 0
What's awesome is that I hate that idea.
What else is awesome? That more people will do it. Haha! Awesome
Basically new definition of 'distinct decklists' now 20 cards different instead of 10
All 5-0 distinct decklists lists get published
Seems good twice a week for modern and standard, once a week for the other formats.
Still has the problem of 0.003% decks getting the same metagame representation as a 10% deck. Utterly useless for metagame data, but definitely cool to see all sorts of new and successful lists. Tracking will have to be updated accordingly.
I think they chose Jace over SFM as they were looking for 4 mana main fase cards, requiring you to tap 4 lands unlike TKS. Also, M25 is a huge incentive to unban him. After the last Masters set they need something to create a hype. Don't forget they are a company, and companies need to make money.
Myself I don't like the unban at all. There already was a recent rise in blue control, so I don't feel it needed such help. I think it would actually reduce diversity. Also, people were already complaining about Lantern, and now they can enjoy being fatesealed. Anyway, we will see...
Don't get it twisted. Jace got unbanned for 1 reason. Hasbro told wizards 'Jump'. Wotc replied 'How High?' and Hasbro said Jace TMS please. And thus a card unbanning was born.
I think they chose Jace over SFM as they were looking for 4 mana main fase cards, requiring you to tap 4 lands unlike TKS. Also, M25 is a huge incentive to unban him. After the last Masters set they need something to create a hype. Don't forget they are a company, and companies need to make money.
Myself I don't like the unban at all. There already was a recent rise in blue control, so I don't feel it needed such help. I think it would actually reduce diversity. Also, people were already complaining about Lantern, and now they can enjoy being fatesealed. Anyway, we will see...
Don't get it twisted. Jace got unbanned for 1 reason. Hasbro told wizards 'Jump'. Wotc replied 'How High?' and Hasbro said Jace TMS please. And thus a card unbanning was born.
I think people are over-estimating the power of Jace.
It has nothing to do with M25.
Basically new definition of 'distinct decklists' now 20 cards different instead of 10
All 5-0 distinct decklists lists get published
Seems good twice a week for modern and standard, once a week for the other formats.
Still has the problem of 0.003% decks getting the same metagame representation as a 10% deck. Utterly useless for metagame data, but definitely cool to see all sorts of new and successful lists. Tracking will have to be updated accordingly.
True, still a curated list, but would hope that with all 5-0 lists (with the caveat) over time it might start to assemble a better picture than the nothing we currently have. I would suspect this will help us quickly identify at least which broad archetypes are doing well at a given time.
(Or maybe I'm just giddy from the unbans)
lol following Twitter, I feel a huge desire to build a deck that simply spits in Jace's face. It can be done, and I think it can be done cheap.
It's called Bogles. ;-)
Seriously though, people are overhyping him a bit. After the period where everyone is jamming Jace in everything, I think most players will finally get what his impact on the format is. He gives Blue decks a way to grind card advantage in the late game. With modern level interaction, his Fateseal isn't as good Codex Shredder's. U/W and Jeskai will play him, for sure. Death's Shadow doesn't want him. Storm doesn't want him. Lantern sure as heck doesn't want him. U/R combo moon decks would probably rather run more combo pieces in the main, but might side him in against midrange. Out of the tier 3 nonsense, Grixis and Esper tap out control will likely be the big winners. Mono U Tron might be interested as well. That said, unless something new crops up in the next set, I don't foresee him utterly wrecking the Meta.
On another note, it's nice to BBE off the list as well. I think she's a great card for Modern. It always baffled me why Bloodbraid got the axe over Deathrite, especially considering how slow BBE is. Once Stoneforge and (The Card That Shall Not Be Named) come off, we'll have a reasonable ban list.
lol following Twitter, I feel a huge desire to build a deck that simply spits in Jace's face. It can be done, and I think it can be done cheap.
It's called Bogles. ;-)
Seriously though, people are overhyping him a bit. After the period where everyone is jamming Jace in everything, I think most players will finally get what his impact on the format is. He gives Blue decks a way to grind card advantage in the late game. With modern level interaction, his Fateseal isn't as good Codex Shredder's. U/W and Jeskai will play him, for sure. Death's Shadow doesn't want him. Storm doesn't want him. Lantern sure as heck doesn't want him. U/R combo moon decks would probably rather run more combo pieces in the main, but might side him in against midrange. Out of the tier 3 nonsense, Grixis and Esper tap out control will likely be the big winners. Mono U Tron might be interested as well. That said, unless something new crops up in the next set, I don't foresee him utterly wrecking the Meta.
On another note, it's nice to BBE off the list as well. I think she's a great card for Modern. It always baffled me why Bloodbraid got the axe over Deathrite, especially considering how slow BBE is. Once Stoneforge and (The Card That Shall Not Be Named) come off, we'll have a reasonable ban list.
I could see lantern wanting him... but yea. That's on the fence.
So we were never going to see all 3 come off at once, I thought it was gonna be BBE this time, SFM next time, and Jace the time after that.
Is there any reason this would have an impact on SFM coming off in the next announcement or two? I would think if these go well then we will see more agressive unbans, but is there any reason it would be LESS likely?
It makes it nearly certain SFM won't come off in the next announcement or two and probably the next four or five. The format will take awhile to stabilize from this to where we even begin to have an idea of what the meta looks like and what optimized decklists are. That alone makes it less than a 1% chance anything gets unbanned in the next several announcements. In addition, if this does "go well" then there is even less need for unbanning SFM because these help similar archetypes that SFM would. Combine all this with the fact that caw-blade was one of the biggest boogiemen in the history of magic and we are looking at years before we are even seriously discussing SFM again.
lol following Twitter, I feel a huge desire to build a deck that simply spits in Jace's face. It can be done, and I think it can be done cheap.
It's called Bogles. ;-)
Seriously though, people are overhyping him a bit. After the period where everyone is jamming Jace in everything, I think most players will finally get what his impact on the format is. He gives Blue decks a way to grind card advantage in the late game. With modern level interaction, his Fateseal isn't as good Codex Shredder's. U/W and Jeskai will play him, for sure. Death's Shadow doesn't want him. Storm doesn't want him. Lantern sure as heck doesn't want him. U/R combo moon decks would probably rather run more combo pieces in the main, but might side him in against midrange. Out of the tier 3 nonsense, Grixis and Esper tap out control will likely be the big winners. Mono U Tron might be interested as well. That said, unless something new crops up in the next set, I don't foresee him utterly wrecking the Meta.
On another note, it's nice to BBE off the list as well. I think she's a great card for Modern. It always baffled me why Bloodbraid got the axe over Deathrite, especially considering how slow BBE is. Once Stoneforge and (The Card That Shall Not Be Named) come off, we'll have a reasonable ban list.
I could see lantern wanting him... but yea. That's on the fence.
As a 4 mana, sorcery speed activation mill rock? Why? The Brainstorm isn't as valuable in Lantern as it in any other deck archetype. Lantern doesn't need a repeatable bounce spell. The cards on the ban list that Lantern really wants are Chrome Mox, the artifact lands, and Sensei's Diving Top.
So we were never going to see all 3 come off at once, I thought it was gonna be BBE this time, SFM next time, and Jace the time after that.
Is there any reason this would have an impact on SFM coming off in the next announcement or two? I would think if these go well then we will see more agressive unbans, but is there any reason it would be LESS likely?
It makes it nearly certain SFM won't come off in the next announcement or two and probably the next four or five. The format will take awhile to stabilize from this to where we even begin to have an idea of what the meta looks like and what optimized decklists are. That alone makes it less than a 1% chance anything gets unbanned in the next several announcements. In addition, if this does "go well" then there is even less need for unbanning SFM because these help similar archetypes that SFM would. Combine all this with the fact that caw-blade was one of the biggest boogiemen in the history of magic and we are looking at years before we are even seriously discussing SFM again.
I agree with you everything, except for the "Combine all this with the fact that caw-blade was one of the biggest boogiemen in the history of magic".
I would say Eldrazi Winter is a bigger disaster than caw-blade in the history of magic.
Well, this should be interesting... I can't wait to read the salt-filled articles on CFB and SCG about how Jace is going to ruin Modern, lol. I'm pretty excited to see what Jace can do for blue control, though.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
lol following Twitter, I feel a huge desire to build a deck that simply spits in Jace's face. It can be done, and I think it can be done cheap.
It's called Bogles. ;-)
Seriously though, people are overhyping him a bit. After the period where everyone is jamming Jace in everything, I think most players will finally get what his impact on the format is. He gives Blue decks a way to grind card advantage in the late game. With modern level interaction, his Fateseal isn't as good Codex Shredder's. U/W and Jeskai will play him, for sure. Death's Shadow doesn't want him. Storm doesn't want him. Lantern sure as heck doesn't want him. U/R combo moon decks would probably rather run more combo pieces in the main, but might side him in against midrange. Out of the tier 3 nonsense, Grixis and Esper tap out control will likely be the big winners. Mono U Tron might be interested as well. That said, unless something new crops up in the next set, I don't foresee him utterly wrecking the Meta.
On another note, it's nice to BBE off the list as well. I think she's a great card for Modern. It always baffled me why Bloodbraid got the axe over Deathrite, especially considering how slow BBE is. Once Stoneforge and (The Card That Shall Not Be Named) come off, we'll have a reasonable ban list.
I could see lantern wanting him... but yea. That's on the fence.
As a 4 mana, sorcery speed activation mill rock? Why? The Brainstorm isn't as valuable in Lantern as it in any other deck archetype. Lantern doesn't need a repeatable bounce spell. The cards on the ban list that Lantern really wants are Chrome Mox, the artifact lands, and Sensei's Diving Top.
Jace is a way to win the game more "quickly" than just straight mill. Ultimating Jace is faster, and removes the chances of getting strings of answers on top of your opponent's deck. Of course, most people scoop to the lock, so Jace's technical improvement might not be worth putting in a four mana 'walker who doesn't offer as egregious an advantage as UB Tezzeret, who's still a sideboard card.
I doubt it, creature removal decks will be plentiful
I don't like the Jace unban, but lets see where this all goes.
I'm curious to see if Temur and BUG arise as midrange decks.
BG Rock is most assuredly a dead now.
Abzan---I wonder after all the "new" wears off if it'll disappear into a fringe GBx deck or if it can combat Jund and UWx
Tron will eat all this up. If you want to be a party pooper, show up to your FNM with the deck when the cards are unbanned.
SFM is absolutely staying banned for a long time. This Jace unban is actually so huge I'm going to sell off my three foil SFMs today to exchange for over-inflated Jaces.
IF all of this ends up being ok, I think a dual unban of SFM/GSZ is the next realistic targets.
All of this makes me absolutely apathetic to the GP this weekend, none of the decks or meta will matter. I'll watch if it I have nothing better to do but I'm not going to go out of my way to watch it this weekend.
Traverse Shadow was arising as the new Shadow deck---I actually think the influx of control and Jund is going to push all versions of Shadow to tier 2.
Every time someone says this, I imagine playing lantern against an active SDT and my brain starts to hurt.
This.
As a Lantern player i sure as hell do NOT want SDT to be back. It would kill the mill plan completely, Top would just draw a card in response to the Needle, or get an answer to Needle. Bad bad bad bad bad! Jace is fine though.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Abzan---I wonder after all the "new" wears off if it'll disappear into a fringe GBx deck or if it can combat Jund and UWx
SFM is absolutely staying banned for a long time. This Jace unban is actually so huge I'm going to sell off my three foil SFMs today to exchange for over-inflated Jaces.
Makes me wonder if Jund would ever turn into Ajundi again. Souls seems like a great card against JTMS.
Are you going to at least wait until A25 and the hype dies down? The market is in a feeding frenzy right now.
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GP Singapore Coverage:What did you have for breakfast this morning?
SDT is never getting unbanned in Modern. It's on the same list of improbable unbans as Skullclamp I bet, even if for different reasons.
I'm over the moon on this whole update and everything it represents. What a massive turnaround from 12 months ago. It's also a triumph for those that have been trumpeting Modern over the past year (especially the last 4 months) and had to combat those who kept denouncing it as unhealthy despite all the evidence to the contrary. I welcome the unbans, the new open approach to Modern management, and the Wizards stamp of approval on this iteration of the format.
I like the BBE unban but JtMS feels...like a cash grab. WoTC seems to be saying: "Hey you want Jace to be cheaper? Make sure to buy the new set!" I dunno, maybe it'll be good because then spikes can level out more quickly? Regardless, all Jace decks are gonna be money.dec for awhile.
My prediction is he will settle around 20% of the Meta and I'm pretty sure cards have been banned for less metashare. He sees 24% play in legacy where Show and Tell is legal so I don't think the argument "there is a cost for tapping out for a 4 drop" applies.
In other news I think the WoTC transparency has been great and I hope it continues!
SDT is never getting unbanned in Modern. It's on the same list of improbable unbans as Skullclamp I bet, even if for different reasons.
I'm over the moon on this whole update and everything it represents. What a massive turnaround from 12 months ago. It's also a triumph for those that have been trumpeting Modern over the past year (especially the last 4 months) and had to combat those who kept denouncing it as unhealthy despite all the evidence to the contrary. I welcome the unbans, the new open approach to Modern management, and the Wizards stamp of approval on this iteration of the format.
I'm glad you are enthusiastic about this announcement; you are generally level headed about these kind of controversial topics. Really communication is what we need to maintain confidence between wizards and the player base and on that front this was terrific. I am also ecstatic they unbanned cards when by all accounts "no changes" would've been hailed as a success. It shows the application of a new approach to the format other than the "ignore until broken, then ban something" cycle we've been on forever.
On a macro level I appreciate the announcement, but still, personally, I can't help but be more disappointed by this ban announcement than any in recent memory if simply because SFM clearly got skipped for Jace and now has a grave for herself in modern. A "no changes" would've at least given me hope that the best was yet to come but it has come and it wasn't what I was hoping for.
Congrats to all those excited to try out JtMS; she may homogenize midrange and she may push the format a little faster but I doubt she breaks it. I just know I am less excited about modern today than I was yesterday and will be for years because we just are not going to get SFM.
What's awesome is that I hate that idea.
What else is awesome? That more people will do it. Haha! Awesome
Still has the problem of 0.003% decks getting the same metagame representation as a 10% deck. Utterly useless for metagame data, but definitely cool to see all sorts of new and successful lists. Tracking will have to be updated accordingly.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Don't get it twisted. Jace got unbanned for 1 reason. Hasbro told wizards 'Jump'. Wotc replied 'How High?' and Hasbro said Jace TMS please. And thus a card unbanning was born.
Spirits
I think people are over-estimating the power of Jace.
It has nothing to do with M25.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
True, still a curated list, but would hope that with all 5-0 lists (with the caveat) over time it might start to assemble a better picture than the nothing we currently have. I would suspect this will help us quickly identify at least which broad archetypes are doing well at a given time.
(Or maybe I'm just giddy from the unbans)
Legacy - LED Dredge, ANT & WDnT
Exactly 4 cmc is a real cost
It's called Bogles. ;-)
Seriously though, people are overhyping him a bit. After the period where everyone is jamming Jace in everything, I think most players will finally get what his impact on the format is. He gives Blue decks a way to grind card advantage in the late game. With modern level interaction, his Fateseal isn't as good Codex Shredder's. U/W and Jeskai will play him, for sure. Death's Shadow doesn't want him. Storm doesn't want him. Lantern sure as heck doesn't want him. U/R combo moon decks would probably rather run more combo pieces in the main, but might side him in against midrange. Out of the tier 3 nonsense, Grixis and Esper tap out control will likely be the big winners. Mono U Tron might be interested as well. That said, unless something new crops up in the next set, I don't foresee him utterly wrecking the Meta.
On another note, it's nice to BBE off the list as well. I think she's a great card for Modern. It always baffled me why Bloodbraid got the axe over Deathrite, especially considering how slow BBE is. Once Stoneforge and (The Card That Shall Not Be Named) come off, we'll have a reasonable ban list.
I could see lantern wanting him... but yea. That's on the fence.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
It makes it nearly certain SFM won't come off in the next announcement or two and probably the next four or five. The format will take awhile to stabilize from this to where we even begin to have an idea of what the meta looks like and what optimized decklists are. That alone makes it less than a 1% chance anything gets unbanned in the next several announcements. In addition, if this does "go well" then there is even less need for unbanning SFM because these help similar archetypes that SFM would. Combine all this with the fact that caw-blade was one of the biggest boogiemen in the history of magic and we are looking at years before we are even seriously discussing SFM again.
As a 4 mana, sorcery speed activation mill rock? Why? The Brainstorm isn't as valuable in Lantern as it in any other deck archetype. Lantern doesn't need a repeatable bounce spell. The cards on the ban list that Lantern really wants are Chrome Mox, the artifact lands, and Sensei's Diving Top.
I agree with you everything, except for the "Combine all this with the fact that caw-blade was one of the biggest boogiemen in the history of magic".
I would say Eldrazi Winter is a bigger disaster than caw-blade in the history of magic.
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
Modern:
WUBRGAmulet Titan, WUBRGHuman
WUBRAd Nauseam, WBRGDeath Shadow, UBRGScapeshift, UBRGDredge
WURJeskai Nahiri, WURCheeri0s, WBGCounter Company, WRGBurn, UBRMadcap Moon, BRGJund Midrange
UBTurn,BRGriselbrand Reanimator, WGKnight Company, RGRG Tron, RGRG Ponza, XAffinity, XEldrazi Tron
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
Every time someone says this, I imagine playing lantern against an active SDT and my brain starts to hurt.
Jace is a way to win the game more "quickly" than just straight mill. Ultimating Jace is faster, and removes the chances of getting strings of answers on top of your opponent's deck. Of course, most people scoop to the lock, so Jace's technical improvement might not be worth putting in a four mana 'walker who doesn't offer as egregious an advantage as UB Tezzeret, who's still a sideboard card.
Green @ it's best
I doubt it, creature removal decks will be plentiful
I don't like the Jace unban, but lets see where this all goes.
I'm curious to see if Temur and BUG arise as midrange decks.
BG Rock is most assuredly a dead now.
Abzan---I wonder after all the "new" wears off if it'll disappear into a fringe GBx deck or if it can combat Jund and UWx
Tron will eat all this up. If you want to be a party pooper, show up to your FNM with the deck when the cards are unbanned.
SFM is absolutely staying banned for a long time. This Jace unban is actually so huge I'm going to sell off my three foil SFMs today to exchange for over-inflated Jaces.
IF all of this ends up being ok, I think a dual unban of SFM/GSZ is the next realistic targets.
All of this makes me absolutely apathetic to the GP this weekend, none of the decks or meta will matter. I'll watch if it I have nothing better to do but I'm not going to go out of my way to watch it this weekend.
Traverse Shadow was arising as the new Shadow deck---I actually think the influx of control and Jund is going to push all versions of Shadow to tier 2.
This.
As a Lantern player i sure as hell do NOT want SDT to be back. It would kill the mill plan completely, Top would just draw a card in response to the Needle, or get an answer to Needle. Bad bad bad bad bad! Jace is fine though.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Makes me wonder if Jund would ever turn into Ajundi again. Souls seems like a great card against JTMS.
Are you going to at least wait until A25 and the hype dies down? The market is in a feeding frenzy right now.
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
I'm over the moon on this whole update and everything it represents. What a massive turnaround from 12 months ago. It's also a triumph for those that have been trumpeting Modern over the past year (especially the last 4 months) and had to combat those who kept denouncing it as unhealthy despite all the evidence to the contrary. I welcome the unbans, the new open approach to Modern management, and the Wizards stamp of approval on this iteration of the format.
My prediction is he will settle around 20% of the Meta and I'm pretty sure cards have been banned for less metashare. He sees 24% play in legacy where Show and Tell is legal so I don't think the argument "there is a cost for tapping out for a 4 drop" applies.
In other news I think the WoTC transparency has been great and I hope it continues!
I'm glad you are enthusiastic about this announcement; you are generally level headed about these kind of controversial topics. Really communication is what we need to maintain confidence between wizards and the player base and on that front this was terrific. I am also ecstatic they unbanned cards when by all accounts "no changes" would've been hailed as a success. It shows the application of a new approach to the format other than the "ignore until broken, then ban something" cycle we've been on forever.
On a macro level I appreciate the announcement, but still, personally, I can't help but be more disappointed by this ban announcement than any in recent memory if simply because SFM clearly got skipped for Jace and now has a grave for herself in modern. A "no changes" would've at least given me hope that the best was yet to come but it has come and it wasn't what I was hoping for.
Congrats to all those excited to try out JtMS; she may homogenize midrange and she may push the format a little faster but I doubt she breaks it. I just know I am less excited about modern today than I was yesterday and will be for years because we just are not going to get SFM.
my prediction is Temur aggro. you can BBE into visions with goyf and delver backup. all the worse parts of the bible wrapped up in one.