By the way, why is the announcement next week? I thought they had it so, in addition to the announcements that take effect with the release of a new set, announcements are also several weeks after the Pro Tour? (4 or 5, can't remember which) So why is this just one week after? Or did they change the announcement timing?
They may also be running the modern pro-tour to see if they should unban or ban something. It provides plenty of incentive to play the most broken thing possible and if nothing is broken all the better.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They may also be running the modern pro-tour to see if they should unban or ban something. It provides plenty of incentive to play the most broken thing possible and if nothing is broken all the better.
Hmmm it seems much more likely they are doing it because it's the most popular format and generates lots of viewership. I seriously doubt there's a hidden motive to have pros solve the format and stress test it for bannable cards. Although I will say that if Modern can't be broken at the PT, it's probably not breakable.
There was a bunch of big mana at all phases of the tournament, but its conversions just didn't hold up into the later rounds. This is because, as many have been saying in this thread, the deck just isn't as strong as its critics would have us believe. As for why more didn't show up with it the first day, this is probably for a similar reason. Pros realized it wasn't as well-positioned or unstoppable as the anti-big mana camp always portrays it.
There was a bunch of big mana at all phases of the tournament, but its conversions just didn't hold up into the later rounds. This is because, as many have been saying in this thread, the deck just isn't as strong as its critics would have us believe. As for why more didn't show up with it the first day, this is probably for a similar reason. Pros realized it wasn't as well-positioned or unstoppable as the anti-big mana camp always portrays it.
I guess its similar to the position I've been arguing for a bit, while its good, its not unbeatable and probably doesn't deserve a ban
There's a lot of broken cards in modern as far as being powerful, but unless it is a key author in a deck that meets banning criteria those cards aren't going anywhere. Wizards has been getting better at not printing completely broken and over the top cards lately as the only true offender I can think of that did get banned for being way too strong was all the way back in Return to Ravnica. The strongest things they've printed recently have been "too strong for standard, but not strong enough to ban in standard" like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Collected Company, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Emrakul, the Promised End, etc. The final one did get banned in standard, but more so because of it not being fun to play against. In modern, banning anything like those cards would be laughable.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There's a lot of broken cards in modern as far as being powerful, but unless it is a key author in a deck that meets banning criteria those cards aren't going anywhere. Wizards has been getting better at not printing completely broken and over the top cards lately as the only true offender I can think of that did get banned for being way too strong was all the way back in Return to Ravnica.
Huh? What are you talking about? No cards were banned in RTR Standard. I'd think you were referring to Deathrite Shaman in Modern, but that's contradicted by Treasure Cruise and the various Eldrazi that were printed subsequently and banned.
The strongest things they've printed recently have been "too strong for standard, but not strong enough to ban in standard" like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Collected Company, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Emrakul, the Promised End, etc. The final one did get banned in standard, but more so because of it not being fun to play against. In modern, banning anything like those cards would be laughable.
Huh? There were a bunch of cards banned in Standard after Emrakul; heck, we had mass bannings in Standard about a month ago.
I'm really confused by what you're saying here because it doesn't make sense.
There's a lot of broken cards in modern as far as being powerful, but unless it is a key author in a deck that meets banning criteria those cards aren't going anywhere. Wizards has been getting better at not printing completely broken and over the top cards lately as the only true offender I can think of that did get banned for being way too strong was all the way back in Return to Ravnica.
Huh? What are you talking about? No cards were banned in RTR Standard. I'd think you were referring to Deathrite Shaman in Modern, but that's contradicted by Treasure Cruise and the various Eldrazi that were printed subsequently and banned.
The strongest things they've printed recently have been "too strong for standard, but not strong enough to ban in standard" like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Collected Company, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Emrakul, the Promised End, etc. The final one did get banned in standard, but more so because of it not being fun to play against. In modern, banning anything like those cards would be laughable.
Huh? There were a bunch of cards banned in Standard after Emrakul; heck, we had mass bannings in Standard about a month ago.
I'm really confused by what you're saying here because it doesn't make sense.
I'm not talking about standard bans. I'm talking about modern. Standard is turning into YuGiOh with how they are banning things. I was drawing the comparison that the only things banned recently have been for standard and not modern.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't remember with which guys in this thread we called that lantern is one of (if not the) best deck no one plays...
We were right XD, protour goes to Lantern Control
GK and I had it on the list of secret best Modern decks, and I think someone else thought it was too.
Overall, great tournament and a huge vindication of Modern's strengths.
I'm not advocating for a lantern ban. It does play permanents that are hard to interact with game 1. Tie that with the consistency of ancient stirrings and white of invention and it's questionable
We'll see how Toronto and onward goes before I make a judgment. I surprisingly have a good record against lantern on jeskai surprisingly.
You can try to hate it out all you want, they still prevent you from drawing or dealing with their lock. Welding jars, Grafdiggers cage, Witchbane orb, Pithing needle, Academy Ruins say you can’t stop them. All mainboardable and findable with either stirrings or whir.
Commander GUR Maelstrom Wanderer BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith RRR Feldon of the Third Path WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
I don't remember with which guys in this thread we called that lantern is one of (if not the) best deck no one plays...
We were right XD, protour goes to Lantern Control
Quite a few of us said it
GK, Sheridan, me, maybe Diva, and Foodchain.
I didn't expect a PT win by Lantern, but i'm not surprised by it either.
I don't remember with which guys in this thread we called that lantern is one of (if not the) best deck no one plays...
We were right XD, protour goes to Lantern Control
GK and I had it on the list of secret best Modern decks, and I think someone else thought it was too.
Overall, great tournament and a huge vindication of Modern's strengths.
Me and Foodchain said it was a top 3 secret best deck, too.
Hoping Lanterns result helps fuel that BBE unban.
I am a little worried Lantern can fight through artifact hate by just simply having Whirr as redundancy.
It'll take more people willing to pick the deck up for WOTC to keep an eye on Lantern, though.
You know which deck destroys Lantern? Gx Tron. With all the fair decks running around and Lantern as the PT winner it seems to be a good choice for the upcoming GPs.
While I agree with most of your reasonings, I don't think Whir is the most likely candidate. Lantern is unfun to play against because it can control your hand, field and topdeck at the same time. The only thing Whir does is add consistency; however, it's also the slowest and easier to deal with card. We saw moments where Salvatto couldn't play Whir because he didn't have triple blue on the field (something not trivial for the deck). If they want to hit a consistency engine, Stirrings will take the hit.
However, I think Lantern and Ensnaring Bridge are the real banable cards; without them, Lantern loses a good bit of it's consistency and is forced to run narrow or bad cards to make up for it.
There's a lot of broken cards in modern as far as being powerful, but unless it is a key author in a deck that meets banning criteria those cards aren't going anywhere. Wizards has been getting better at not printing completely broken and over the top cards lately as the only true offender I can think of that did get banned for being way too strong was all the way back in Return to Ravnica.
Huh? What are you talking about? No cards were banned in RTR Standard. I'd think you were referring to Deathrite Shaman in Modern, but that's contradicted by Treasure Cruise and the various Eldrazi that were printed subsequently and banned.
The strongest things they've printed recently have been "too strong for standard, but not strong enough to ban in standard" like Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Collected Company, Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Emrakul, the Promised End, etc. The final one did get banned in standard, but more so because of it not being fun to play against. In modern, banning anything like those cards would be laughable.
Huh? There were a bunch of cards banned in Standard after Emrakul; heck, we had mass bannings in Standard about a month ago.
I'm really confused by what you're saying here because it doesn't make sense.
I'm not talking about standard bans. I'm talking about modern. Standard is turning into YuGiOh with how they are banning things. I was drawing the comparison that the only things banned recently have been for standard and not modern.
But if you're talking about Modern, then your message still doesn't make sense. You claimed that nothing had been banned since RTR in Modern, which is factually wrong; Gitaxian Probe and Golgari Grave-Troll were banned just a year ago! Maybe you're referring specifically to when cards were printed rather than when they were banned (i.e. Gitaxian Probe or Eldrazi Temple, printed before Return to Ravnica, don't count), but I'm not sure how fair of a claim that is because even if the older cards were what were banned, it was more recent cards that broke those cards; for example, no one would've cared about Golgari Grave-Troll if not for Prized Amalgam. But even if we want to insist on that arbitrary definition that we refer only to specific cards that are banned, the claim is still clearly wrong because of Treasure Cruise, which came two years after Return to Ravnica.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Hmmm it seems much more likely they are doing it because it's the most popular format and generates lots of viewership. I seriously doubt there's a hidden motive to have pros solve the format and stress test it for bannable cards. Although I will say that if Modern can't be broken at the PT, it's probably not breakable.
1. The pro's didnt break the format.
2. The main hitters, when accounting for only Modern play, did show up, with a few rogue decks.
Spirits
There was a bunch of big mana at all phases of the tournament, but its conversions just didn't hold up into the later rounds. This is because, as many have been saying in this thread, the deck just isn't as strong as its critics would have us believe. As for why more didn't show up with it the first day, this is probably for a similar reason. Pros realized it wasn't as well-positioned or unstoppable as the anti-big mana camp always portrays it.
I guess its similar to the position I've been arguing for a bit, while its good, its not unbeatable and probably doesn't deserve a ban
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Huh? There were a bunch of cards banned in Standard after Emrakul; heck, we had mass bannings in Standard about a month ago.
I'm really confused by what you're saying here because it doesn't make sense.
I'm not talking about standard bans. I'm talking about modern. Standard is turning into YuGiOh with how they are banning things. I was drawing the comparison that the only things banned recently have been for standard and not modern.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Oh well. I'm still not over how poorly Uxx Control did on day 2
Spirits
GK and I had it on the list of secret best Modern decks, and I think someone else thought it was too.
Overall, great tournament and a huge vindication of Modern's strengths.
We'll see how Toronto and onward goes before I make a judgment. I surprisingly have a good record against lantern on jeskai surprisingly.
GURB Grixis/Jund Shadow
RBG Dredge
xUx U Ballista Tron
Commander
GUR Maelstrom Wanderer
BWU Sydri, Galvanic Genius
BGB Meren of Clan Nel Toth
WGW Nazahn, Revered Bladesmith
RRR Feldon of the Third Path
WWW Heliod, God of the Sun
Quite a few of us said it
GK, Sheridan, me, maybe Diva, and Foodchain.
I didn't expect a PT win by Lantern, but i'm not surprised by it either.
Me and Foodchain said it was a top 3 secret best deck, too.
Hoping Lanterns result helps fuel that BBE unban.
I am a little worried Lantern can fight through artifact hate by just simply having Whirr as redundancy.
It'll take more people willing to pick the deck up for WOTC to keep an eye on Lantern, though.
Legacy: UWR Miracles [https://deckstats.net/decks/44442/1092831-uwr-miracles-2]
However, I think Lantern and Ensnaring Bridge are the real banable cards; without them, Lantern loses a good bit of it's consistency and is forced to run narrow or bad cards to make up for it.
Legacy: UWR Miracles [https://deckstats.net/decks/44442/1092831-uwr-miracles-2]
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
The format would get weird.
Spirits