Disappointed. But the Planeswalker rule change (which we already knew was coming), is a shakeup of sorts. I do expect that change to have some impact on Modern. There's no doubt it makes Planeswalkers a stronger play. Could be very interesting for a deck like R/W Prison, which is already pretty good in this creature-heavy meta.
You can have several PWs with the same PW type on the battlefield on your side as long as they have different card names. For instance, Liliana of the Veil + Liliana, the Last Hope.
Also, all PWs are errated and now are "legendary".
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I feel like this change is going to make Eldrazi Tron better
I was going to play Abzan tonight and then that rule came into effect, I just kinda lost any excitement to play GBx tonight.
How? It's not like there are two Karns or Ugins the deck could play. This change does literally nothing for Eldrazi Tron.
I think he is talking about how Eldrazi Tron has better answers already built into the deck (all is dust, Ugin + Karn) vs GBx which has weaker answers and would have dilute itself to fight planeswalkers.
I think he is talking about how Eldrazi Tron has better answers already built into the deck (all is dust, Ugin + Karn) vs GBx which has weaker answers and would have dilute itself to fight planeswalkers.
But Eldrazi-Tron doesn't get better. That strategy is just worse against Eldrazi-Tron. The original complaint is no different then me singing the praises of me finally being able to have every Jace in play at the same time, but then lamenting the fact that JTMS is still on the banned list. It's literally just complaining for the sake of complaining.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
It blows my mind how they took such a simple intuitive concept with "legendary" and made it completely unintuitive with rules changes.
How is it (thematically or lore wise) that we summon two gideons? Or that our oponent also summons a gideon. Legendary meant unique - cannot be two copies on the battlefield. Then they screwed that up, then they started variations of the same legend with time spiral - altho spiral we could buy because alternate timeline etc. But here we have thalia guardian and thalia heretic that are literally the same unique persona existing on the battlefield at the same time.
And when that seemed to be as dumb as they could be they go and let you do the same thing with their marquee planeswalkers? How am I attacking with three gideons at the same time targetting my opponents gideons?
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
What decks does the legend rule really change? Does this really affect the meta? The only thing I can think of are:
1. GBx can now run both lilis at the same time. So i guess you can run 2 Last hope instead of 1 in certain metas in certain builds? Seems pretty insignificant, as Lili is typically played as a removal spell with upside, and doesn't survive long (if it does, you'll probably win).
2. UW can now run multiple different Gideons without much trouble. I feel like this is a little more important, as UW was more likely to actually protect its Gideon for long enough that gideon 2 was a dead draw.
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Modern UWUW ControlUW UGWSpiritsUGW GHardened ScalesG WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
I don't like the Planeswalker rule change it devalues planewalker uniqueness not to mention it doesn't make sense. I think wizards needs Planeswakers to be a thing because they raise the monetary value of standard sets. This change will likely raise the play of planeswalkers in modern which will allow planeswalker to hold value past rotation.
It blows my mind how they took such a simple intuitive concept with "legendary" and made it completely unintuitive with rules changes.
How is it (thematically or lore wise) that we summon two gideons? Or that our oponent also summons a gideon. Legendary meant unique - cannot be two copies on the battlefield. Then they screwed that up, then they started variations of the same legend with time spiral - altho spiral we could buy because alternate timeline etc. But here we have thalia guardian and thalia heretic that are literally the same unique persona existing on the battlefield at the same time.
And when that seemed to be as dumb as they could be they go and let you do the same thing with their marquee planeswalkers? How am I attacking with three gideons at the same time targetting my opponents gideons?
Thematically it is incredibly dumb and doesn't work. However in terms of game play it quite a bit better just like the last change making it so both player could have a legendary creature or planeswalker. Sometimes we have to give up flavor for function.
It blows my mind how they took such a simple intuitive concept with "legendary" and made it completely unintuitive with rules changes.
How is it (thematically or lore wise) that we summon two gideons? Or that our oponent also summons a gideon. Legendary meant unique - cannot be two copies on the battlefield. Then they screwed that up, then they started variations of the same legend with time spiral - altho spiral we could buy because alternate timeline etc. But here we have thalia guardian and thalia heretic that are literally the same unique persona existing on the battlefield at the same time.
Actually, it goes back even further if you're willing to accept the same character even if the name on the card is different: See Crovax the Cursed and Ascendant Evincar (Nemesis).
It blows my mind how they took such a simple intuitive concept with "legendary" and made it completely unintuitive with rules changes.
How is it (thematically or lore wise) that we summon two gideons? Or that our oponent also summons a gideon. Legendary meant unique - cannot be two copies on the battlefield. Then they screwed that up, then they started variations of the same legend with time spiral - altho spiral we could buy because alternate timeline etc. But here we have thalia guardian and thalia heretic that are literally the same unique persona existing on the battlefield at the same time.
And when that seemed to be as dumb as they could be they go and let you do the same thing with their marquee planeswalkers? How am I attacking with three gideons at the same time targetting my opponents gideons?
Thematically it is incredibly dumb and doesn't work. However in terms of game play it quite a bit better just like the last change making it so both player could have a legendary creature or planeswalker. Sometimes we have to give up flavor for function.
I could be overreacting but...maaan, are they completly nuts? At the moment it could not mean much but let the modern pros two weeks to adapt and you'll see. Gideons will be all over the place...do you like facing Liliana? No? Guess what, you'll face two by turn 4! Do you think you'll be able to navigate your way through them? Don't think so!
This will lead to some broken decks and a loud cry from wizards: "ohhh nooo, Lili is sooo broken, let's ban her!"...
So you wanted some unbans? Guess what? Winter is comming!
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GBR May the Jund'ish side of the Force be with you! GBR
It blows my mind how they took such a simple intuitive concept with "legendary" and made it completely unintuitive with rules changes.
How is it (thematically or lore wise) that we summon two gideons? Or that our oponent also summons a gideon. Legendary meant unique - cannot be two copies on the battlefield. Then they screwed that up, then they started variations of the same legend with time spiral - altho spiral we could buy because alternate timeline etc. But here we have thalia guardian and thalia heretic that are literally the same unique persona existing on the battlefield at the same time.
And when that seemed to be as dumb as they could be they go and let you do the same thing with their marquee planeswalkers? How am I attacking with three gideons at the same time targetting my opponents gideons?
Thematically it is incredibly dumb and doesn't work. However in terms of game play it quite a bit better just like the last change making it so both player could have a legendary creature or planeswalker. Sometimes we have to give up flavor for function.
I could be overreacting but...maaan, are they completly nuts? At the moment it could not mean much but let the modern pros two weeks to adapt and you'll see. Gideons will be all over the place...do you like facing Liliana? No? Guess what, you'll face two by turn 4! Do you think you'll be able to navigate your way through them? Don't think so!
This will lead to some broken decks and a loud cry from wizards: "ohhh nooo, Lili is sooo broken, let's ban her!"...
So you wanted some unbans? Guess what? Winter is comming!
I mean sure having two Liliana's on t4 is pretty solid, but so is winning the game on t4 which is sort of what we do around here.
This change is going to be pretty marginal. Most planeswalkers that see modern play are 3 or 4 mana and you can only play so many expensive sorcery speed things in modern or you risk getting run over by aggro or combo
The question that I keep ruminating on is: who exactly gives a crap about legacy and vintage?
I assume you, guy with a legacy deck in his sig?
There's caring and then caring. These formats just do need the level of attention they've been getting in my opinion. It makes me wonder Why. Maybe Wizards is foreshadowing something?
The amount of attention they're giving Vintage lately is rather odd. The Vintage players don't seem to mind (most of the reaction seems positive, though it does seem a decent number disagree with the restriction of Gush and think Mental Misstep should've gone instead), but it's odd to see this (and the somewhat surprising unrestriction of Yawgmoth's Bargain) and then Modern not having gotten any unbans in nearly one and a half years despite there being several quite safe cards on the banned list. While I can at least see some level of concern for Jace, Stoneforge, or Splinter Twin, there really doesn't seem to be any real argument for not unbanning Bloodbraid Elf.
Most likely they're just waiting until the Pro Tour to shake things up with an unban, as people like those a lot more than a ban...
Was anyone else a little disturbed by Maro's article today saying Revolt was their least popular mechanic in KLD block? I've heard nothing but good things about revolt (mostly due to FP) but maybe i've just been living in a modern bubble. At any rate I don't think we should hold our breath for the easily balanced revolt counterspell I know some of us were hoping for.
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Was anyone else a little disturbed by Maro's article today saying Revolt was their least popular mechanic in KLD block? I've heard nothing but good things about revolt (mostly due to FP) but maybe i've just been living in a modern bubble. At any rate I don't think we should hold our breath for the easily balanced revolt counterspell I know some of us were hoping for.
Because they rely on survey data from random players who respond to their spam emails. Because understanding card impacts, meta flow, and following your own game is apparently too hard?
The amount of attention they're giving Vintage lately is rather odd. The Vintage players don't seem to mind (most of the reaction seems positive, though it does seem a decent number disagree with the restriction of Gush and think Mental Misstep should've gone instead), but it's odd to see this (and the somewhat surprising unrestriction of Yawgmoth's Bargain) and then Modern not having gotten any unbans in nearly one and a half years despite there being several quite safe cards on the banned list. While I can at least see some level of concern for Jace, Stoneforge, or Splinter Twin, there really doesn't seem to be any real argument for not unbanning Bloodbraid Elf.
Most likely they're just waiting until the Pro Tour to shake things up with an unban, as people like those a lot more than a ban...
Modern-wise (not taking price into consideration), Bloodbraid Elf does even less than Jace, the Mind Sculptor. It does create some excitement from players trying new cards and excitement from Spikes like me beating players trying new cards.
These changes that they've done recently are just SO odd to me. Ban Sensei's Top 3 years after players wanted it banned. Start making risky and odd ban choices in Commander and Vintage. Start making some okay choices in Pauper. Make no choices in Modern because Bloodbraid Elf has to be tested for 5 years to see if it's okay (no, let's just not look at the card for 5 years, then we don't have to pretend like our testing is *****). Don't get me started on the Planeswalker/Legendary rules which I didn't read, but am getting an idea from every single person online.
I, for one, don't like Pro Tour unbans any better than doing the correct unban on time or close to it. I may be the only one, but I'm putting that out there...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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Now I can split my Liliana!
Also, Giddeon.Dec
Sweet, sweet stability.
I was going to play Abzan tonight and then that rule came into effect, I just kinda lost any excitement to play GBx tonight.
How? It's not like there are two Karns or Ugins the deck could play. This change does literally nothing for Eldrazi Tron.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
I kinda thought that was obvious...
Also, all PWs are errated and now are "legendary".
I think he is talking about how Eldrazi Tron has better answers already built into the deck (all is dust, Ugin + Karn) vs GBx which has weaker answers and would have dilute itself to fight planeswalkers.
The Uniqueness rule will be going away and they'll all receive errata to become legendary. (So they'll function like Thalias, Akromas, and Avacyns)
But Eldrazi-Tron doesn't get better. That strategy is just worse against Eldrazi-Tron. The original complaint is no different then me singing the praises of me finally being able to have every Jace in play at the same time, but then lamenting the fact that JTMS is still on the banned list. It's literally just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
How is it (thematically or lore wise) that we summon two gideons? Or that our oponent also summons a gideon. Legendary meant unique - cannot be two copies on the battlefield. Then they screwed that up, then they started variations of the same legend with time spiral - altho spiral we could buy because alternate timeline etc. But here we have thalia guardian and thalia heretic that are literally the same unique persona existing on the battlefield at the same time.
And when that seemed to be as dumb as they could be they go and let you do the same thing with their marquee planeswalkers? How am I attacking with three gideons at the same time targetting my opponents gideons?
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
1. GBx can now run both lilis at the same time. So i guess you can run 2 Last hope instead of 1 in certain metas in certain builds? Seems pretty insignificant, as Lili is typically played as a removal spell with upside, and doesn't survive long (if it does, you'll probably win).
2. UW can now run multiple different Gideons without much trouble. I feel like this is a little more important, as UW was more likely to actually protect its Gideon for long enough that gideon 2 was a dead draw.
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
Thematically it is incredibly dumb and doesn't work. However in terms of game play it quite a bit better just like the last change making it so both player could have a legendary creature or planeswalker. Sometimes we have to give up flavor for function.
Actually, it goes back even further if you're willing to accept the same character even if the name on the card is different: See Crovax the Cursed and Ascendant Evincar (Nemesis).
Other cases of "same character, different card" that took place before Time Spiral: Kamahl, Pit Fighter and Kamahl, Fist of Krosa; Jeska, Warrior Adept and Phage the Untouchable; Rorix Bladewing and Bladewing the Risen; Balthor the Stout and Balthor the Defiled;
I could be overreacting but...maaan, are they completly nuts? At the moment it could not mean much but let the modern pros two weeks to adapt and you'll see. Gideons will be all over the place...do you like facing Liliana? No? Guess what, you'll face two by turn 4! Do you think you'll be able to navigate your way through them? Don't think so!
This will lead to some broken decks and a loud cry from wizards: "ohhh nooo, Lili is sooo broken, let's ban her!"...
So you wanted some unbans? Guess what? Winter is comming!
I mean sure having two Liliana's on t4 is pretty solid, but so is winning the game on t4 which is sort of what we do around here.
There's caring and then caring. These formats just do need the level of attention they've been getting in my opinion. It makes me wonder Why. Maybe Wizards is foreshadowing something?
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Most likely they're just waiting until the Pro Tour to shake things up with an unban, as people like those a lot more than a ban...
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Because they rely on survey data from random players who respond to their spam emails. Because understanding card impacts, meta flow, and following your own game is apparently too hard?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Modern-wise (not taking price into consideration), Bloodbraid Elf does even less than Jace, the Mind Sculptor. It does create some excitement from players trying new cards and excitement from Spikes like me beating players trying new cards.
These changes that they've done recently are just SO odd to me. Ban Sensei's Top 3 years after players wanted it banned. Start making risky and odd ban choices in Commander and Vintage. Start making some okay choices in Pauper. Make no choices in Modern because Bloodbraid Elf has to be tested for 5 years to see if it's okay (no, let's just not look at the card for 5 years, then we don't have to pretend like our testing is *****). Don't get me started on the Planeswalker/Legendary rules which I didn't read, but am getting an idea from every single person online.
I, for one, don't like Pro Tour unbans any better than doing the correct unban on time or close to it. I may be the only one, but I'm putting that out there...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)