GSZ is an example of a perfectly fair card that would be perfectly fair and has been forever. Homogenyschmogeny. Every black deck runs discard pretty much because it's the best option. There's really no issue with a card being the best creature tutor.
The ban is like 6 years old and it stuck because Pod was busted. Pod's gone. GSZ should be free.
If there's anything the last 2 years has taught us it's that creature decks in modern are barely passable. Decks that would play GSZ have flirted with tier 1 a few times but never stuck for a long period of time.
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I think wizards would like it if there was a green creature deck that just played bros. But your options are basically "play coco" or "play valakut" or "splash green in your discard midrange deck."
GSZ would actually be sweet in that it would *increase* diversity amongst green decks. Some would play GSZ for a grindier plan with fewer mana dorks, some would play coco and chord because they want to combo with non-green critters, and there would probably even be a green midrange deck that doesn't play any cocos/chords. Maybe GSZ + Discard for a BGx rock deck with some ramp.
You'd likely not see GSZ in most Valakut decks, and doesn't make opponents' lightning bolts/fatal pushes live. But if you did, that forces more interaction which is good.
Green sun's Zenith is the card I would pick from the Banlist, together with SFM to be unbanned.
And I actually think there is a pretty much big chance it could be unbanned during the next year.
On top of that, it would a really fine card to have around.
Going by the logic of every green deck playing GSZ, we should ban Thoughtseize and have it rot in the banlist.
Except Thoughtseize can be a terrible topdeck and GSZ is great at any point in the game in decks that would play it, plus it's a tutor.
I don't see it coming off.
But then again I'm not the brightest tool in the shed.
I don't know if I'd agree with Thoughtseize being a terrible topdeck. It's not ideal if opponent is hellbent but it's often the game winner when you can strip removal or counterspells with it late game, and certainly has won me a lot of games off the top.
Not trying to start a thoughtseize debate or anything but I think most of the arguments for homogeneity for GSZ will apply for thoughtseize, if not moreso.
I'm on the side of no for GSZ. As others have said, it's relevant at every point in the game, and the fact that it shuffles itself back in to the deck ensures that you will continue to find it. Discard is a pretty lousy top deck when you get in to late game scenarios, unless both players are stockpiling cards. It seems to me that there is a 'fixed' version of GSZ in modern: Traverse the Ulvenwald. GSZ is always G+cmc of the creature, and so is Traverse once you have delirium. The fact that it requires delirium is so that you can't abuse it the same way you could GSZ. GSZ sort of feels like eye of ugin in a lot of ways: it gives certain decks inevitability. Granted you can counter or discard GSZ, but it's the same idea that if the game goes long, the one with access to GSZ is inherently at an advantage.
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Modern: UWR Breach, UWB Esper control
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Personally I would much rather talk about possible unbans then theorycraft never to be printed perfect solutions to the current scapegoat of the week decks.
Unbans > Bans > theory-crafting
Granted, I don't think there is that much room for unbans ATM, but at least it is a somewhat more constructive discussion. If anything BBE might get the proverbial nod this time around, even though I think it's unlikely. They could say they are doing to diversify midrange decks (since E-Tron has a choke-hold on that archetype as things are). Alternatively they could go for a Temple ban under the same pretenses (which is more likely but would be less popular). DS should remain safe since if they try and axe it without adressing E-Tron that would be really bad.
SFM might be an interesting unban for the sake of color diversity but still unlikely. Jace is out of the question for all the second-market based reasons. Combo cards and cantrips are a no-go, even Preordain. Modern Nexus did a "testing" of Preordain in Storm but and seems to have deemed it "safe" but I'm all but certain their testing list for Storm was wrong...
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In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out.
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
I realize it's not a straight comparison but Thoughtseize does see vastly more legacy play than GSZ. The only GSZ deck that's ever done anything serious is elves, and that extremely inconsistently.
Information about the GSZ era of modern is somewhat sparse, but did the card ever put up any actual results or was it just one of those "we're gonna ban stuff from every top deck" things?
Note: One of the reasons I am really partial to GSZ is that it provides something sorely lacking in most colors in modern--a high impact, high powered 1 drop. Blue and black have great options, green's only option is extremely vulnerable mana dorks and oath of nissa (which has major deckbuilding constraints). White and Red's only on-curve 1-drop options are aggro creatures for the most part.
In general I think it's extremely underconsidered how big of a deal blue and black decks getting Serum visions (and scour, to a lesser extent) and Thoughtseize/Inquisition respectively defines the midrange spectrum of modern. If you ever want to see more diversity in midrange you're going to need to open up that space in other colors.
White could really use a card like Mother of Runes, who represents power in many phases and angles of the game. Or even Tithe (despite being on the RL) or Land Tax or similar.
I've been playing GBx decks for years, thoughtseize is an extremely awful topdeck. If I'm topdecking it with a blue player gripping a bunch of cards, I've probably already lost and just don't know it. That's not always the case, but it is very likely
Also, GSZ is amazing at every point of the game, and it shuffles itself back on top of it!
Playing Noble/Bird is a completely fine turn 1 play, there's a reason "bolt the bird" is a thing.
I have no interest in making company decks way better, possibly break Titanshift, make blue even worse in the process, and once again make GBx a lot better and have people cry about it and demand thoughtseize to be banned in exchange.
It's not coming off the ban list, nor should it
No changes is most likely, and BBE/SFM is honestly the only likely candidates in the next 6 months.
I have a hard time seeing gsz Being too good for modern. It only gets green creatures so it's worse than chord if you are trying to combo. shuffling back in your library is more of a downside than anything because you won't be able to any eternal witness shenanigans with it. Im also not sold on it seeing play in company decks because you can only play so many non creature spells along side coco and Most coco decks would rather have chord because it can get all the combo pieces. Sure it's good early and it's good late but many cards are like tasigur, lightning bolt, and serum visions. My only reservation is that it makes titan shift decks too good but honestly it's been years since gsz has been legal, so even if it's too good they can just do what they did to grave troll and re ban it.
I do not think GSZ is a sure thing in Titanshift. The deck really cannot afford any more etb-tapped lands and certainly does not want its lands being bolted. Think about how many absolutely garbage hands having even 1 dryad arbor in the deck makes for -- lots of Valakut, Cinder Glade, Dryad Arbor hands and such.
The difference between T4 pact for titan and cast it vs. T5 gsz for a titan is pretty marked as well.
The only sure thing is that a GSZ unban ensures Elves never floats below T2 again, and this is a cool deck to be consistently t1/t2 IMHO.
I'm not sure I see a reason why green needs GSZ. Noble Hierach is an excellent turn 1 play. I do agree with the poster though that said that mother of runes would be nice for modern so white could have a powerful turn 1 play.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
My position is more that the card is not strong enough to justify being on the banlist than that it's something green "deserves." Noble Hierarch is not really a compellingly good midrange card. It's OK in some decks. Nothing like a Thoughtseize or Serum visions from a power level perspective.
GSZ has never been in a metagame dominant deck (it was in Pod for what, 3 months when pod was not that great, and Pod is now banned), has almost no real results, and has been proven in other formats with more powerful cards to be at best decent. To top that off it doesn't automatically slot into any tier 1 decks -- it *might* be in a deck that has bumped in and out of tier 1 and even down to tier 3.
The risks to the metagame of unbanning GSZ are extremely small. The absolute worst case scenario is that we have to ban Valakut, a vastly more unfair card that has been on the banlist before and promotes much more degenerate strategies.
The second worst case scenario is that we see a green based midrange deck take over the format slowly in the same way Pod did, and eventually have to get banned again. Well worth the experiment IMHO.
We can already see that in general green based strategies in modern focus around collected company, so it's not like we can possibly further homogenize them.
There is just no way the card causes an Eye of Ugin style problem, or even a Deathrite Jund style problem. We've got AMPLE evidence of that from legacy (where Deathrite is in half the decks and GSZ is in like 2%).
It was supposed to "destroy the midrange decks", "make Jund unplayable", "warp the format and make you want to be playing either aggro or Tron".
Same with Thoptersword.
I am not entirely sure if GSZ could be the best unban(obviously Jace, The Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic are the best unbans), but a good conversation around it should always be welcomed.
Jace, The Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic still are the top priorities and the only cards that will be unbanned during the next year probably(tbh, JTMS is even more possible)
I absolutely did not say any of that, and I really dislike that you're accussing me of saying that about AV. I had zero opinion on SOTM.
I advocated for AV for it's entire discussion of being unbanned. I'm sure if you somehow can go into my history, you'd find there's way more posts for me agreeing on the unban of AV, despite knowing it could hurt me, as a GBx player. Could there be a post about me being against AV? Possibly, but I'm certain there's more on me saying it shouldn't stay banned and that it was my last opinion before the announcement.
I WAS upset in the first few weeks when it was jammed in every deck and destroying midrange, however, doing that made those decks bad in an open field, and AV was cut back.
So, no, don't put words in my mouth and then discredit every opinion I could have about the unbans and bans
I was very much for the unban
I was frustrated in the first few weeks of it's unban
Totally different.
I have definitely been more right about modern than I've been wrong, in regards to the format
The only major things I can think of that I got wrong was Nahiri being a lasting pillar
I was also laughed at by most of you when I claimed that Push would be better than bolt, including Sheridan and Jordan.
Just took a look on mtggoldfish, Shadow is falling down to the 4th most played deck! Wow!
Everyone agrees, it's a difficult deck to play well. I've been split on playing GBx decks and E-Tron, I feel like it would take serious dedication to become good with Shadow. I'm also not sure I can handle the mirror and blue control matchups.
AD Naus seems to be peaking it's head up and trending. Shouldn't it be ok in this meta? I'm not that familiar with the combo deck; I know it struggles against Abzan, and without Leyline, Shadow just shuts it down...but what about everything else?
I kinda don't know how UW is still so high up, I feel like Jeskai is going to eat it's shares, it has the control element but can turn the corner with burn, and being proactive is always better in this format than a purely reaction deck like UW, but who knows.
Just took a look on mtggoldfish, Shadow is falling down to the 4th most played deck! Wow!
Everyone agrees, it's a difficult deck to play well. I've been split on playing GBx decks and E-Tron, I feel like it would take serious dedication to become good with Shadow. I'm also not sure I can handle the mirror and blue control matchups.
AD Naus seems to be peaking it's head up and trending. Shouldn't it be ok in this meta? I'm not that familiar with the combo deck; I know it struggles against Abzan, and without Leyline, Shadow just shuts it down...but what about everything else?
I kinda don't know how UW is still so high up, I feel like Jeskai is going to eat it's shares, it has the control element but can turn the corner with burn, and being proactive is always better in this format than a purely reaction deck like UW, but who knows.
You must not be aware of where goldfish's data comes from. Shadow is bound to "drop in share" on that site while there aren't any major events; as soon as one rolls around, it'll shoot back up. And that's not because people randomly start playing it for those tournaments. It's because those tournaments provide more accurate data points than Wizards' meticulously released 5-0 lists. Shadow's mostly "dropping" because those lists keep watering down the actual metagame numbers.
tl;dr: Shadow has dipped in popularity since it broke onto the scene, but not as much as goldfish indicates.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
People need to stop comparing GSZ to Chord of Calling.
GSZ is one of the best things green can and could do on turn since pretty much forever: play a mana dork, while not having any of the downsides mana dorks usually have. It does not get worse as the game goes on. You shouldn't ask the question if desks playing tutors will replace them with GSZ, you need to ask if decks that play mana dorks have a reason not to replace them with GSZ.
And I'm not saying there aren't any reasons not to continue to play Noble Hierarchs and Birds. They also fix your mana, CoCO wants a high creature count, exalted is way to good for Indect to pass up on etc.
Reading the last page here just made me feel like people are hugely underselling GSZ. I would like to play with, but I don't think it's time yet. We have a really nice meta right now, several blue decks and strategies are finally viable again. Wizards won't put that on the line with a risky unban like GSZ (and I agree with them here). BBE and SM stay the most likely cards be unbanned and seeing how they have handled unbans in Modern until now, the chances are slim.
Lets be real, Green Sun's Zenith is banned only because it leads to similar deck lists with people playing with same silver bullets in main deck and sideboard. Wizards doesn't like this kind of consistency and ability to tutor things without giving any real commitment to it.
I guess I'm in the minority when I look at the banned list and say to myself "that would be totally fine in modern" as opposed to "such and such deck needs this card".
I think the only card that has even the slightest chance of coming off the banned list right now is Bloodbraid Elf. But honestly, Modern is in such a fantastic place at the moment, I don't see WotC doing anything to upset the apple cart. They've got a format that is fun and diverse. There is no incentive the screw with that.
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I realize it's not a straight comparison but Thoughtseize does see vastly more legacy play than GSZ. The only GSZ deck that's ever done anything serious is elves, and that extremely inconsistently.
Bad analogy because Legacy is a blue format, and green is pretty much nothing in Legacy. The color wheel is much more balanced in Modern (but not perfect).
I look at banlist as a place for cards that are seriously oppressive. If a small banlist is the objective then things that are not oppressive (bbe sfm preordain, maybe jtms and gsz) shouldnt be kept locked up.
However wizards may prefer to only unban when they think a card will solve a metagame problem rather than as soon as it seems safe to do so. This would be annoying but is probably the case. You have to wait for modern to suck before getting back those perfectly reasonable cards of the banlist.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I look at banlist as a place for cards that are seriously oppressive. If a small banlist is the objective then things that are not oppressive (bbe sfm preordain, maybe jtms and gsz) shouldnt be kept locked up.
However wizards may prefer to only unban when they think a card will solve a metagame problem rather than as soon as it seems safe to do so. This would be annoying but is probably the case. You have to wait for modern to suck before getting back those perfectly reasonable cards of the banlist.
While Wizards does seem to want to keep the banlist short, they also want to format to not be too fast. That's why Ponder, Preordain, and [card}Seething Song[/card] are all banned. They speed up and make storm and combo too consistent, thus they're banned.
I think this is why people see BBE and SFM as cards that can be removed. They're both powerful cards, but they shouldn't speed up the format too much, and are overall cards that we have better answers to now.
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Modern Decks: UBG Lantern Control GBU BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
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Jace isn't going to be unbanned for years to come, unless Cheon and Michael Black's testing prove otherwise
There's too many polarizing articles out there saying it's either fine or borderline dangerous, no way does WOTC take that risk. I don't possibly see how SFM and BBE stay banned but Jace doesn't.
Until one of those cards is unbanned first, I'm incredibly skeptical of that outcome.
GSZ is just begging to be a massive silver bullet card, I feel like Jace has a better chance of being unbanned first before this card. Black and Green are already the best colors in modern, I don't see why they should unban this card right now.
Who knows the time table, but I imagine the unban list progression would go
I realize it's not a straight comparison but Thoughtseize does see vastly more legacy play than GSZ. The only GSZ deck that's ever done anything serious is elves, and that extremely inconsistently.
Bad analogy because Legacy is a blue format, and green is pretty much nothing in Legacy. The color wheel is much more balanced in Modern (but not perfect).
According to MTGoldfish the top 12 legacy decks are:
4/12 White
7/12 Blue
8/12 Black
8/12 Red
4/12 Green
1/Colorless
(Note: I didn't count Eldrazi as a colored deck, or death and taxes a black deck, or other decks that are just running 4 or less copies of a splash color they never plan to cast for real. Like Chancellor of Annex in BR Reanimator)
Meanwhile, Modern:
6/13 White
5/13 Blue
4/13 Black
4/13 Red
4/13 Green
2/Colorless
It's not that much worse in Legacy, but it is pretty balanced in Modern.
Just took a look on mtggoldfish, Shadow is falling down to the 4th most played deck! Wow!
Everyone agrees, it's a difficult deck to play well. I've been split on playing GBx decks and E-Tron, I feel like it would take serious dedication to become good with Shadow. I'm also not sure I can handle the mirror and blue control matchups.
AD Naus seems to be peaking it's head up and trending. Shouldn't it be ok in this meta? I'm not that familiar with the combo deck; I know it struggles against Abzan, and without Leyline, Shadow just shuts it down...but what about everything else?
I kinda don't know how UW is still so high up, I feel like Jeskai is going to eat it's shares, it has the control element but can turn the corner with burn, and being proactive is always better in this format than a purely reaction deck like UW, but who knows.
You must not be aware of where goldfish's data comes from. Shadow is bound to "drop in share" on that site while there aren't any major events; as soon as one rolls around, it'll shoot back up. And that's not because people randomly start playing it for those tournaments. It's because those tournaments provide more accurate data points than Wizards' meticulously released 5-0 lists. Shadow's mostly "dropping" because those lists keep watering down the actual metagame numbers.
tl;dr: Shadow has dipped in popularity since it broke onto the scene, but not as much as goldfish indicates.
Yeah, I've been skeptical of that website and kinda knew it was iffy going off of their list.
I don't look at their actual non-paper lists anymore, which is a shame.
Once every few weeks, I think there's a group of guys who release some data on meta-shares and if they're trending up or down, on reddit.
I'm very much not for Shadows ban, but if it's results continue for lets say---another year and a half, does anyone think it'll eat a ban for sure? It's been in nearly every top 8 major tournament.
I'm glad it's not oppressive, but isn't it being in every top 8 a major problem, in WOTC's eyes?
I'm glad it's not oppressive, but isn't it being in every top 8 a major problem, in WOTC's eyes?
I'm pretty sure WotC is fine with it being in every Top 8 provided it isn't 3-4 decks of every Top 8. A deck doing consistently well isn't a problem. It's when it is doing so much more consistently well than every other deck that it's a problem.
Right now if their justification for banning Shadow was that it was appearing in almost every Top 8, then they'd have to ban something from every other deck essentially doing the same, which is just stupid.
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The ban is like 6 years old and it stuck because Pod was busted. Pod's gone. GSZ should be free.
If there's anything the last 2 years has taught us it's that creature decks in modern are barely passable. Decks that would play GSZ have flirted with tier 1 a few times but never stuck for a long period of time.
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I think wizards would like it if there was a green creature deck that just played bros. But your options are basically "play coco" or "play valakut" or "splash green in your discard midrange deck."
GSZ would actually be sweet in that it would *increase* diversity amongst green decks. Some would play GSZ for a grindier plan with fewer mana dorks, some would play coco and chord because they want to combo with non-green critters, and there would probably even be a green midrange deck that doesn't play any cocos/chords. Maybe GSZ + Discard for a BGx rock deck with some ramp.
You'd likely not see GSZ in most Valakut decks, and doesn't make opponents' lightning bolts/fatal pushes live. But if you did, that forces more interaction which is good.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Except Thoughtseize can be a terrible topdeck and GSZ is great at any point in the game in decks that would play it, plus it's a tutor.
I don't see it coming off.
But then again I'm not the brightest tool in the shed.
Not trying to start a thoughtseize debate or anything but I think most of the arguments for homogeneity for GSZ will apply for thoughtseize, if not moreso.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I'm on the side of no for GSZ. As others have said, it's relevant at every point in the game, and the fact that it shuffles itself back in to the deck ensures that you will continue to find it. Discard is a pretty lousy top deck when you get in to late game scenarios, unless both players are stockpiling cards. It seems to me that there is a 'fixed' version of GSZ in modern: Traverse the Ulvenwald. GSZ is always G+cmc of the creature, and so is Traverse once you have delirium. The fact that it requires delirium is so that you can't abuse it the same way you could GSZ. GSZ sort of feels like eye of ugin in a lot of ways: it gives certain decks inevitability. Granted you can counter or discard GSZ, but it's the same idea that if the game goes long, the one with access to GSZ is inherently at an advantage.
Legacy: UW RiP/Helm, UR Sneak and Show
Unbans > Bans > theory-crafting
Granted, I don't think there is that much room for unbans ATM, but at least it is a somewhat more constructive discussion. If anything BBE might get the proverbial nod this time around, even though I think it's unlikely. They could say they are doing to diversify midrange decks (since E-Tron has a choke-hold on that archetype as things are). Alternatively they could go for a Temple ban under the same pretenses (which is more likely but would be less popular). DS should remain safe since if they try and axe it without adressing E-Tron that would be really bad.
SFM might be an interesting unban for the sake of color diversity but still unlikely. Jace is out of the question for all the second-market based reasons. Combo cards and cantrips are a no-go, even Preordain. Modern Nexus did a "testing" of Preordain in Storm but and seems to have deemed it "safe" but I'm all but certain their testing list for Storm was wrong...
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
Information about the GSZ era of modern is somewhat sparse, but did the card ever put up any actual results or was it just one of those "we're gonna ban stuff from every top deck" things?
Note: One of the reasons I am really partial to GSZ is that it provides something sorely lacking in most colors in modern--a high impact, high powered 1 drop. Blue and black have great options, green's only option is extremely vulnerable mana dorks and oath of nissa (which has major deckbuilding constraints). White and Red's only on-curve 1-drop options are aggro creatures for the most part.
In general I think it's extremely underconsidered how big of a deal blue and black decks getting Serum visions (and scour, to a lesser extent) and Thoughtseize/Inquisition respectively defines the midrange spectrum of modern. If you ever want to see more diversity in midrange you're going to need to open up that space in other colors.
White could really use a card like Mother of Runes, who represents power in many phases and angles of the game. Or even Tithe (despite being on the RL) or Land Tax or similar.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Also, GSZ is amazing at every point of the game, and it shuffles itself back on top of it!
Playing Noble/Bird is a completely fine turn 1 play, there's a reason "bolt the bird" is a thing.
I have no interest in making company decks way better, possibly break Titanshift, make blue even worse in the process, and once again make GBx a lot better and have people cry about it and demand thoughtseize to be banned in exchange.
It's not coming off the ban list, nor should it
No changes is most likely, and BBE/SFM is honestly the only likely candidates in the next 6 months.
The difference between T4 pact for titan and cast it vs. T5 gsz for a titan is pretty marked as well.
The only sure thing is that a GSZ unban ensures Elves never floats below T2 again, and this is a cool deck to be consistently t1/t2 IMHO.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I'm not sure I see a reason why green needs GSZ. Noble Hierach is an excellent turn 1 play. I do agree with the poster though that said that mother of runes would be nice for modern so white could have a powerful turn 1 play.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
GSZ has never been in a metagame dominant deck (it was in Pod for what, 3 months when pod was not that great, and Pod is now banned), has almost no real results, and has been proven in other formats with more powerful cards to be at best decent. To top that off it doesn't automatically slot into any tier 1 decks -- it *might* be in a deck that has bumped in and out of tier 1 and even down to tier 3.
The risks to the metagame of unbanning GSZ are extremely small. The absolute worst case scenario is that we have to ban Valakut, a vastly more unfair card that has been on the banlist before and promotes much more degenerate strategies.
The second worst case scenario is that we see a green based midrange deck take over the format slowly in the same way Pod did, and eventually have to get banned again. Well worth the experiment IMHO.
We can already see that in general green based strategies in modern focus around collected company, so it's not like we can possibly further homogenize them.
There is just no way the card causes an Eye of Ugin style problem, or even a Deathrite Jund style problem. We've got AMPLE evidence of that from legacy (where Deathrite is in half the decks and GSZ is in like 2%).
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
I absolutely did not say any of that, and I really dislike that you're accussing me of saying that about AV. I had zero opinion on SOTM.
I advocated for AV for it's entire discussion of being unbanned. I'm sure if you somehow can go into my history, you'd find there's way more posts for me agreeing on the unban of AV, despite knowing it could hurt me, as a GBx player. Could there be a post about me being against AV? Possibly, but I'm certain there's more on me saying it shouldn't stay banned and that it was my last opinion before the announcement.
I WAS upset in the first few weeks when it was jammed in every deck and destroying midrange, however, doing that made those decks bad in an open field, and AV was cut back.
So, no, don't put words in my mouth and then discredit every opinion I could have about the unbans and bans
I was very much for the unban
I was frustrated in the first few weeks of it's unban
Totally different.
I have definitely been more right about modern than I've been wrong, in regards to the format
The only major things I can think of that I got wrong was Nahiri being a lasting pillar
I was also laughed at by most of you when I claimed that Push would be better than bolt, including Sheridan and Jordan.
Everyone agrees, it's a difficult deck to play well. I've been split on playing GBx decks and E-Tron, I feel like it would take serious dedication to become good with Shadow. I'm also not sure I can handle the mirror and blue control matchups.
AD Naus seems to be peaking it's head up and trending. Shouldn't it be ok in this meta? I'm not that familiar with the combo deck; I know it struggles against Abzan, and without Leyline, Shadow just shuts it down...but what about everything else?
I kinda don't know how UW is still so high up, I feel like Jeskai is going to eat it's shares, it has the control element but can turn the corner with burn, and being proactive is always better in this format than a purely reaction deck like UW, but who knows.
tl;dr: Shadow has dipped in popularity since it broke onto the scene, but not as much as goldfish indicates.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
GSZ is one of the best things green can and could do on turn since pretty much forever: play a mana dork, while not having any of the downsides mana dorks usually have. It does not get worse as the game goes on. You shouldn't ask the question if desks playing tutors will replace them with GSZ, you need to ask if decks that play mana dorks have a reason not to replace them with GSZ.
And I'm not saying there aren't any reasons not to continue to play Noble Hierarchs and Birds. They also fix your mana, CoCO wants a high creature count, exalted is way to good for Indect to pass up on etc.
Reading the last page here just made me feel like people are hugely underselling GSZ. I would like to play with, but I don't think it's time yet. We have a really nice meta right now, several blue decks and strategies are finally viable again. Wizards won't put that on the line with a risky unban like GSZ (and I agree with them here). BBE and SM stay the most likely cards be unbanned and seeing how they have handled unbans in Modern until now, the chances are slim.
Modern
WUBRG
Bad analogy because Legacy is a blue format, and green is pretty much nothing in Legacy. The color wheel is much more balanced in Modern (but not perfect).
However wizards may prefer to only unban when they think a card will solve a metagame problem rather than as soon as it seems safe to do so. This would be annoying but is probably the case. You have to wait for modern to suck before getting back those perfectly reasonable cards of the banlist.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
While Wizards does seem to want to keep the banlist short, they also want to format to not be too fast. That's why Ponder, Preordain, and [card}Seething Song[/card] are all banned. They speed up and make storm and combo too consistent, thus they're banned.
I think this is why people see BBE and SFM as cards that can be removed. They're both powerful cards, but they shouldn't speed up the format too much, and are overall cards that we have better answers to now.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
There's too many polarizing articles out there saying it's either fine or borderline dangerous, no way does WOTC take that risk. I don't possibly see how SFM and BBE stay banned but Jace doesn't.
Until one of those cards is unbanned first, I'm incredibly skeptical of that outcome.
GSZ is just begging to be a massive silver bullet card, I feel like Jace has a better chance of being unbanned first before this card. Black and Green are already the best colors in modern, I don't see why they should unban this card right now.
Who knows the time table, but I imagine the unban list progression would go
BBE=SFM>Jace>GSZ
According to MTGoldfish the top 12 legacy decks are:
4/12 White
7/12 Blue
8/12 Black
8/12 Red
4/12 Green
1/Colorless
(Note: I didn't count Eldrazi as a colored deck, or death and taxes a black deck, or other decks that are just running 4 or less copies of a splash color they never plan to cast for real. Like Chancellor of Annex in BR Reanimator)
Meanwhile, Modern:
6/13 White
5/13 Blue
4/13 Black
4/13 Red
4/13 Green
2/Colorless
It's not that much worse in Legacy, but it is pretty balanced in Modern.
Yeah, I've been skeptical of that website and kinda knew it was iffy going off of their list.
I don't look at their actual non-paper lists anymore, which is a shame.
Once every few weeks, I think there's a group of guys who release some data on meta-shares and if they're trending up or down, on reddit.
I'm very much not for Shadows ban, but if it's results continue for lets say---another year and a half, does anyone think it'll eat a ban for sure? It's been in nearly every top 8 major tournament.
I'm glad it's not oppressive, but isn't it being in every top 8 a major problem, in WOTC's eyes?
I'm pretty sure WotC is fine with it being in every Top 8 provided it isn't 3-4 decks of every Top 8. A deck doing consistently well isn't a problem. It's when it is doing so much more consistently well than every other deck that it's a problem.
Right now if their justification for banning Shadow was that it was appearing in almost every Top 8, then they'd have to ban something from every other deck essentially doing the same, which is just stupid.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros