Does anyone ever stop and wonder why this is? Like, why certain cards keep coming up and others don't?
Because the same three or four people won't let it go and post ad nauseam about it. I never hear people talking about it IRL.
I hear it almost weekly at my local store. Usually comments like "why is it still banned?" and "it would be totally fine today" in addition to "I miss that deck." Comments usually sprout up during the Lantern and RW prison matches that stall every round into turns.
But the point remains that the only "complaint" about talking about Twin is the consistency. Nobody seems to dispute that it doesn't belong on the banned list. Or at least do so with any argument planted in reality.
No one in this thread cares about those issues anymore because the overall topic has become so annoying. If you want to make an effective argument, not just have a personal platform, you'd back off for at least 5 months and revisit in December after Twin fatigue has died down. Like I said earlier, you aren't convincing anyone this way. It just annoys many users. This harms your position more than it helps it.
Does anyone ever stop and wonder why this is? Like, why certain cards keep coming up and others don't?
Because the same three or four people won't let it go and post ad nauseam about it. I never hear people talking about it IRL.
I hear it almost weekly at my local store. Usually comments like "why is it still banned?" and "it would be totally fine today" in addition to "I miss that deck." Comments usually sprout up during the Lantern and RW prison matches that stall every round into turns.
But the point remains that the only "complaint" about talking about Twin is the consistency. Nobody seems to dispute that it doesn't belong on the banned list. Or at least do so with any argument planted in reality.
No one in this thread cares about those issues anymore because the overall topic has become so annoying. If you want to make an effective argument, not just have a personal platform, you'd back off for at least 5 months and revisit in December after Twin fatigue has died down. Like I said earlier, you aren't convincing anyone this way. It just annoys many users. This harms your position more than it helps it.
maybe the reason he isn't convincing others is because others weren't convinced in the first place? A year ago... I've heard the same people argue back about twin just as much as I've heard the opposite. Maybe some people on this forum are too stubborn/arrogant to listen and take in good arguments, and see that the other side has some good points. But they don't because they have rose tinted glasses on the format,and Because their linear pet deck is doing fine.
I for one find this format averagely decent atm.
However I still have my qualms about how linear this format is. Or how archtype diversity long term just doesn't seem to be the theme of modern.
Can we seriously just get 24 hours where we don't talk about Twin at all? It's not even about format health anymore, it's mostly about a small group of people's collective grudge towards Wizards because either they feel that they can't play their pet decks or they're still angry after Wizards had the audacity to not ban a deck out of existence after the wake of the Twin ban outrage nor have they banned decks for having the same meta numbers for a few months that Twin held for a year. I don't even want Twin to stay banned and I'm getting sick of it because it's no longer a discussion, it's two sides shouting an opinion at each other, and at this point anyone with a remote interest in unbanning Twin will now be labeled as a radical member of the TDF because of what I don't even think is 3 posters. The worse part is the fact that people are trying to have meaningful discussion about other things in the meta, but they can't go more than a few posts without the Twin topic drowning out the discussion for like the third day in a row now. I know it's unlikely that the mods will infringe that much on our freedom to talk about what we want, but we shouldn't need mods to tell us what should be blatantly apparent to get us to drop the subject, move on, and just ignore someone if they say something you think is incorrect for at least a day.
So I'd like to get some other opinions on what kind of card would be the most beneficial new print for the meta?
For a long time the lack of a decent 1 mana black removal spell was probably the most requested single print. But that's fixed, so what broad category would people like to see enter the card pool?
Personally I would like a better white midrange finisher. Brimaz was so close. Others see sfm as too good. Maybe something in between.
I'd like to see Mother of Runes, Counterspell, Flametongue Kavu, Nimble Mongoose, and innocent blood get reprinted.
I do think it'd be interesting to see Nimble Mongoose to give Green tempo decks a new tool to play with. I think Flametongue Kavu would be too slow, but I think it'd be interesting to see a 3-cost 3/1 version that did 3 damage to a creature. It would make for a nice blinkable threat in UWR Flash/Midrange decks. Actually, I think I just want more 2-3 cost creatures with spells attached to them that could be used in UWR decks (and I'm sure someone wants me shot for having said that I want more creatures with spells tacked on). Bonus points would be added if they were 2-cost creatures to give me an excuse to try and make Ojutai's Command work in Modern
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Decks
Modern: UWUW Control UBRGrixis Shadow URIzzet Phoenix
Does anyone ever stop and wonder why this is? Like, why certain cards keep coming up and others don't?
Because the same three or four people won't let it go and post ad nauseam about it. I never hear people talking about it IRL.
I hear it almost weekly at my local store. Usually comments like "why is it still banned?" and "it would be totally fine today" in addition to "I miss that deck." Comments usually sprout up during the Lantern and RW prison matches that stall every round into turns.
But the point remains that the only "complaint" about talking about Twin is the consistency. Nobody seems to dispute that it doesn't belong on the banned list. Or at least do so with any argument planted in reality.
I know I shouldn't engage but...do you honestly believe that there aren't two sides to this and everyone who disagrees with you isn't "planted in reality"?
I have yet to see a solid foundation or meaningful support to show that A) it was the proper and best decision at the time for the sake of format health and B) it remains the correct decision today. The main reason it was placed on the list to begin with was political image reasons (shake up the PT) and the main reason it's still there is stubborn arrogance on the part of Wizards not wanting to walk back yet another decision after walking back about a half dozen other decisions in the past few years (not to mention having to deal with the garbage fire that Standard was in).
If someone has well-reasoned arguments in support of the original ban or support for continued stay on the ban, we're all ears. But "shut up we're sick of hearing it" isn't exactly a compelling counter argument.
And for reference, this whole argument began because bizzycola keeps making blatantly one-sided, incorrect statements about Twin, it's past, and it's impact on the meta. If you want us annoying "Twin Supporters" to stop, then go bother the posters constantly making baiting comments that are wildly false and divisive. Seems like the "anti Twin" crowd can't seem to let it go either and has to get their jabs in whenever they can.
That's because in your mind a "solid foundation or meaningful support" equates to something that could convince you that you're wrong, and that will simply never happen. Ever since the ban, heck, even before it, there have been multiple good arguments with solid foundations and meaningful support. You just discredit them all because they don't fit your narrative. When someone won't even acknowledge rational, logical points it becomes very clear very quickly the whole discussion is futile.
I just posted about the Modern Challenge and noone bats an eye, because it's all about Splinter Twin.
Hey, I batted an eye! I even gave you a like on it! I just didn't really have any comment, other than "yep, Modern's still in a great place, much better than at any point I've played it since DRS was printed."
I think some form of tribal hate would be good, and would fit into a pirate vs. dinosaur set. Maybe something like engineered plague?
The reason for this is there is a lack of good sideboard options against Eldrazi Tron. They're colorless, so no colored hate works, but they're also not artifacts, so none of that hate works. The land hate in modern does little against the deck as well. The Eldrazi hate printed in standard isn't very strong.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I think the best hate is what, Ceremonious Rejection?? I know if you can get a clock on them, can slow the lands at all, that card becomes a beat down.
I'd like to see Mother of Runes, Counterspell, Flametongue Kavu, Nimble Mongoose, and innocent blood get reprinted.
I do think it'd be interesting to see Nimble Mongoose to give Green tempo decks a new tool to play with. I think Flametongue Kavu would be too slow, but I think it'd be interesting to see a 3-cost 3/1 version that did 3 damage to a creature. It would make for a nice blinkable threat in UWR Flash/Midrange decks. Actually, I think I just want more 2-3 cost creatures with spells attached to them that could be used in UWR decks (and I'm sure someone wants me shot for having said that I want more creatures with spells tacked on). Bonus points would be added if they were 2-cost creatures to give me an excuse to try and make Ojutai's Command work in Modern[/quote]
I think FTK would be a Modern miss. What wants it? Company decks don't want it, bigger midrange decks don't want it, and it's dead in too many matchups (e.g. GDS, Tron, Ad Nauseam, UW Control, Titan Shift, etc.). I think some decks would play it, sure, but it wouldn't be that big.
Mongoose would rock. I'd totally play that card and it would facilitate some nice interactive strategies.
I think the best hate is what, Ceremonious Rejection?? I know if you can get a clock on them, can slow the lands at all, that card becomes a beat down.
Yeah, that's a good answer, but what if you're not playing blue?
Against other decks all colors have access to good SB cards. There are even good colorless hate that any deck can play in engineered explosives, relic of progenitus, graffdigger's cage, pitching needle, spellskite, etc.
Against affinity there is stony silence, creeping corrosion, shatterstorm, hurkly's recall, golgari charm, zealous persecution, pyroclasm, anger of the gods, etc.
Against Grixis DS there is lingering souls, Mirran Crusader, Liliana's defeat, leyline of the void, relic of progenitus, Rest In Peace, dryad militant, chameleon collusus, etc.
Against burn there is kitchen finks, duress, collective brutality, spellskite, feed the clan, auriok champion, redirect, deflecting palm etc.
Against Eldrazi Tron there is ceremonius rejection.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Does anyone ever stop and wonder why this is? Like, why certain cards keep coming up and others don't?
Because the same three or four people won't let it go and post ad nauseam about it. I never hear people talking about it IRL.
I hear it almost weekly at my local store. Usually comments like "why is it still banned?" and "it would be totally fine today" in addition to "I miss that deck." Comments usually sprout up during the Lantern and RW prison matches that stall every round into turns.
But the point remains that the only "complaint" about talking about Twin is the consistency. Nobody seems to dispute that it doesn't belong on the banned list. Or at least do so with any argument planted in reality.
I know I shouldn't engage but...do you honestly believe that there aren't two sides to this and everyone who disagrees with you isn't "planted in reality"?
I have yet to see a solid foundation or meaningful support to show that A) it was the proper and best decision at the time for the sake of format health and B) it remains the correct decision today. The main reason it was placed on the list to begin with was political image reasons (shake up the PT) and the main reason it's still there is stubborn arrogance on the part of Wizards not wanting to walk back yet another decision after walking back about a half dozen other decisions in the past few years (not to mention having to deal with the garbage fire that Standard was in).
If someone has well-reasoned arguments in support of the original ban or support for continued stay on the ban, we're all ears. But "shut up we're sick of hearing it" isn't exactly a compelling counter argument.
And for reference, this whole argument began because bizzycola keeps making blatantly one-sided, incorrect statements about Twin, it's past, and it's impact on the meta. If you want us annoying "Twin Supporters" to stop, then go bother the posters constantly making baiting comments that are wildly false and divisive. Seems like the "anti Twin" crowd can't seem to let it go either and has to get their jabs in whenever they can.
I just posted about the Modern Challenge and noone bats an eye, because it's all about Splinter Twin.
Well living end got good after this last bunch of cyclers! I'm now at the stage of wondering how many copies of Leyline of the Void I'll need to find space for in the sideboard. An insane number of decks rely pretty hard on the graveyard just now.
I do think it'd be interesting to see Nimble Mongoose to give Green tempo decks a new tool to play with. Actually, I think I just want more 2-3 cost creatures with spells attached to them that could be used in UWR decks (and I'm sure someone wants me shot for having said that I want more creatures with spells tacked on). Bonus points would be added if they were 2-cost creatures to give me an excuse to try and make Ojutai's Command work in Modern
As much as I think Nimble Mongoose is an interesting card I really feel like it's just going to make sultai the colour to play in the format. I feel at this point that creatures are waaaay too pushed and we especially don't need more creatures with spells stapled to them, especially not cheap or under-costed ones. I'd like some nice spells printed (Innocent Blood, Fact or Fiction, Counterspell or Vindicate) and some nice creatures printed (like Mother of Runes, Containment Priest or Cloud of Faeries).
Edit - Adding a +1 for a land that sacs and blows up a land without a basic land type, it might curb big mana a bit an make tempo a little bit more of a thing in modern.
PS/Edit: What do you make/think of it? Similar results in the challenge for the thirt consecutive time.
To me it looks like grave hate has managed to keep GDS down while leaving some room for lantern and affinity to squeeze in with the stretched thin sideboards. People have yet to find a way to hate eldrazi away but many decks can contend with it and the meta may have settled a little bit with the cyclical sideboard game mixing things up slightly as time passes. Eldratron may have a bloated share near top tables but it isn't crowding out the plethora of other viable decks and while not perfect I think this is pretty awesome!
I think the best hate is what, Ceremonious Rejection?? I know if you can get a clock on them, can slow the lands at all, that card becomes a beat down.
Yeah, that's a good answer, but what if you're not playing blue?
Against other decks all colors have access to good SB cards. There are even good colorless hate that any deck can play in engineered explosives, relic of progenitus, graffdigger's cage, pitching needle, spellskite, etc.
Against affinity there is stony silence, creeping corrosion, shatterstorm, hurkly's recall, golgari charm, zealous persecution, pyroclasm, anger of the gods, etc.
Against Grixis DS there is lingering souls, Mirran Crusader, Liliana's defeat, leyline of the void, relic of progenitus, Rest In Peace, dryad militant, chameleon collusus, etc.
Against burn there is kitchen finks, duress, collective brutality, spellskite, feed the clan, auriok champion, redirect, deflecting palm etc.
Against Eldrazi Tron there is ceremonius rejection.
I am biased here because I just haven't played against Eldrazi Tron much in the past month (4 times) and I run a deck that has a positive matchup against it (Titan Shift), but I just don't think it's much of a problem, outside of people who despise the downfall of pure BGx strategies.
They have nut draws that just win the game. I don't think Wizards minds that, simply because it's not a Bloom Titan kind of feel. They are all creatures that "can be dealt with" and win via combat damage usually. Wizards wants a deck that a newbie can get, run HOT, and love the feel for Magic. It attracts newer players, while detracting some older ones.
*Yesterday I played against an opponent at a PPTQ who Tron'd on turn 3 all 3 games. It made it tough for me to win, but Titan Shift got it done. Don't get me wrong, it was somewhat frustrating, especially seeing multiple Walking Ballistas in games 1 and 2 and luckily fading them in game 3 (or I lose). I killed one with Beast Within in game 3. But imagine how frustrating it was for him to lose...at a PPTQ no less. Now, I know that W/L doesn't prove anything about E Tron. But I honestly don't see it as a problem until it has a 55% win rate vs. many decks and a high metashare. High meaning 15% or more...
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'm not saying Eldrazi Tron is a problem. A poster asked what would be good cards to be printed in the next set which would be good for the modern metagame, and I said I'd like to see some tribal hate, like engineered plague.
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Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I just posted about the Modern Challenge and noone bats an eye, because it's all about Splinter Twin.
Well living end got good after this last bunch of cyclers! I'm now at the stage of wondering how many copies of Leyline of the Void I'll need to find space for in the sideboard. An insane number of decks rely pretty hard on the graveyard just now.
I do think it'd be interesting to see Nimble Mongoose to give Green tempo decks a new tool to play with. Actually, I think I just want more 2-3 cost creatures with spells attached to them that could be used in UWR decks (and I'm sure someone wants me shot for having said that I want more creatures with spells tacked on). Bonus points would be added if they were 2-cost creatures to give me an excuse to try and make Ojutai's Command work in Modern
As much as I think Nimble Mongoose is an interesting card I really feel like it's just going to make sultai the colour to play in the format. I feel at this point that creatures are waaaay too pushed and we especially don't need more creatures with spells stapled to them, especially not cheap or under-costed ones. I'd like some nice spells printed (Innocent Blood, Fact or Fiction, Counterspell or Vindicate) and some nice creatures printed (like Mother of Runes, Containment Priest or Cloud of Faeries).
Edit - Adding a +1 for a land that sacs and blows up a land without a basic land type, it might curb big mana a bit an make tempo a little bit more of a thing in modern.
I'm not sure what Containment Priest would do in Modern, other than mess up Griselbrand and Dredge decks. The biggest creature problems are almost always cast.
I would also like to see a land that allows you to tap and sacrifice a land to nuke a non-basic with no basic land types. Being able to sac a tapped land would help offset the tempo disadvantage that comes from using lands as lando devices.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I'm not sure what Containment Priest would do in Modern, other than mess up Griselbrand and Dredge decks. The biggest creature problems are almost always cast.
I would also like to see a land that allows you to tap and sacrifice a land to nuke a non-basic with no basic land types. Being able to sac a tapped land would help offset the tempo disadvantage that comes from using lands as lando devices.
I suggested Containment Priest for exactly that reason, it means the player of the Dredge deck would have to respect the card. They can't just dredge it all away and absolutely go for it if their opponent has the mana up. It adds a little more nuance to dredge without someone just playing Rest in Peace and dredge auto-losing and it's potentially even maindeckable as a 1 or 2 of in DnT type decks. I just think it's a really cool card.
I'm not sure what Containment Priest would do in Modern, other than mess up Griselbrand and Dredge decks. The biggest creature problems are almost always cast.
I would also like to see a land that allows you to tap and sacrifice a land to nuke a non-basic with no basic land types. Being able to sac a tapped land would help offset the tempo disadvantage that comes from using lands as lando devices.
I suggested Containment Priest for exactly that reason, it means the player of the Dredge deck would have to respect the card. They can't just dredge it all away and absolutely go for it if their opponent has the mana up. It adds a little more nuance to dredge without someone just playing Rest in Peace and dredge auto-losing and it's potentially even maindeckable as a 1 or 2 of in DnT type decks. I just think it's a really cool card.
Priest is a cool card indeed. It also does work against CoCo...
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Vorthos-y Johnny. All will be One
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
I sort of put all my eggs in one basket and bought into Eldrazi Tron, ordered the pieces on TCG
I think Grixis is so mandatory to hate out, that it leaves E-Tron with very little hate outside of Rejection. I'm not sure most decks can really hate out Grixis and E-Tron while staying reasonable against the field
I think I'm gonna sell off my Goyfs and whatnot on MTGO to buy Eldrazi on mtgo, too, seeing that if you want to play a midrange deck, you're better off playing grixis or E-Tron, guess i'll play those two instead until GBx sees a comeback, which could be a very long time barring surprise bans/unbans.
The only scary thing is that if Shadow eats a ban, E-Tron will either eat a temple ban at the same time or later down the road. Hopefully neither deck is in danger; pleasantly surprised grixis is being regulated in the format.
So I'd like to get some other opinions on what kind of card would be the most beneficial new print for the meta?
For a long time the lack of a decent 1 mana black removal spell was probably the most requested single print. But that's fixed, so what broad category would people like to see enter the card pool?
Personally I would like a better white midrange finisher. Brimaz was so close. Others see sfm as too good. Maybe something in between.
I still want better nonbasic land hate, but it's hard to think of an appropriate templating. I still think the best one, which could also go through Standard, would need some kind of "destroy target nonbasic land with no basic land types" clause. Assuming a Standard environment with shocklands/checklands/cyclelands, this would clear that format while also impacting Modern. There are tons of other template ideas that would do it too, and I'm sure Wizards can figure it out.
This is probably the most unbiased positive the format could get, but I don't quite like your suggestion. I feel it would further homogenize decks into the fetch/shock mana base when I would like there to be more incentive to play check lands, fast lands, and filter lands. None of these are bad at all, they are just roll players to go along with the fetch/shock stranglehold on mama bases.
I'd like to see land hate that can only target lands that have activated abilities that aren't mana abilities, but that doesn't actually address tron lands or temple and I think the wording of "destroy a land that taps for more than one mana or has an activated ability that isn't a mana ability" would just be too clunky. But as you stated, there are a ton of options here and hoping wizards can come up with something better than any of us have here.
Those tournament results look great and diverse and pretty much solidifies the already clear picture that GDS doesn't need a ban at this point.
I'm not saying Eldrazi Tron is a problem. A poster asked what would be good cards to be printed in the next set which would be good for the modern metagame, and I said I'd like to see some tribal hate, like engineered plague.
I imagine we will have to wait until we have another Eldrazi focused block, it will happen unless WotC decides to abandon the current story line which still has 2 of the 3 big Eldrazi running around the multiverse. Hopefully they print a useful "destroy target colorless creature" spell but i would be willing to bet that they would cost it at 3-4 mana
I'm not saying Eldrazi Tron is a problem. A poster asked what would be good cards to be printed in the next set which would be good for the modern metagame, and I said I'd like to see some tribal hate, like engineered plague.
I imagine we will have to wait until we have another Eldrazi focused block, it will happen unless WotC decides to abandon the current story line which still has 2 of the 3 big Eldrazi running around the multiverse. Hopefully they print a useful "destroy target colorless creature" spell but i would be willing to bet that they would cost it at 3-4 mana
Why? Narrow hate cards rarely cost that much. The newest mono-color hate cards are all inexpensive. If the "destroy target colorless creature" is a sorcery, I expect it will cost 1 mana. 2 mana if it's an instant.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
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No one in this thread cares about those issues anymore because the overall topic has become so annoying. If you want to make an effective argument, not just have a personal platform, you'd back off for at least 5 months and revisit in December after Twin fatigue has died down. Like I said earlier, you aren't convincing anyone this way. It just annoys many users. This harms your position more than it helps it.
Spirits
I for one find this format averagely decent atm.
However I still have my qualms about how linear this format is. Or how archtype diversity long term just doesn't seem to be the theme of modern.
decks playing:
none
Going back to a more interesting topic,
I do think it'd be interesting to see Nimble Mongoose to give Green tempo decks a new tool to play with. I think Flametongue Kavu would be too slow, but I think it'd be interesting to see a 3-cost 3/1 version that did 3 damage to a creature. It would make for a nice blinkable threat in UWR Flash/Midrange decks. Actually, I think I just want more 2-3 cost creatures with spells attached to them that could be used in UWR decks (and I'm sure someone wants me shot for having said that I want more creatures with spells tacked on). Bonus points would be added if they were 2-cost creatures to give me an excuse to try and make Ojutai's Command work in Modern
Modern:
UWUW Control
UBRGrixis Shadow
URIzzet Phoenix
I have yet to see a solid foundation or meaningful support to show that A) it was the proper and best decision at the time for the sake of format health and B) it remains the correct decision today. The main reason it was placed on the list to begin with was political image reasons (shake up the PT) and the main reason it's still there is stubborn arrogance on the part of Wizards not wanting to walk back yet another decision after walking back about a half dozen other decisions in the past few years (not to mention having to deal with the garbage fire that Standard was in).
If someone has well-reasoned arguments in support of the original ban or support for continued stay on the ban, we're all ears. But "shut up we're sick of hearing it" isn't exactly a compelling counter argument.
And for reference, this whole argument began because bizzycola keeps making blatantly one-sided, incorrect statements about Twin, it's past, and it's impact on the meta. If you want us annoying "Twin Supporters" to stop, then go bother the posters constantly making baiting comments that are wildly false and divisive. Seems like the "anti Twin" crowd can't seem to let it go either and has to get their jabs in whenever they can.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
You guys should just stick to your guns and stop talking about it, if you can control yourselves. :]
I've sent my Tweet in, so my work for the righteous unbanning of Twin is done for the day.
Spirits
The reason for this is there is a lack of good sideboard options against Eldrazi Tron. They're colorless, so no colored hate works, but they're also not artifacts, so none of that hate works. The land hate in modern does little against the deck as well. The Eldrazi hate printed in standard isn't very strong.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Spirits
I think FTK would be a Modern miss. What wants it? Company decks don't want it, bigger midrange decks don't want it, and it's dead in too many matchups (e.g. GDS, Tron, Ad Nauseam, UW Control, Titan Shift, etc.). I think some decks would play it, sure, but it wouldn't be that big.
Mongoose would rock. I'd totally play that card and it would facilitate some nice interactive strategies.
Yeah, that's a good answer, but what if you're not playing blue?
Against other decks all colors have access to good SB cards. There are even good colorless hate that any deck can play in engineered explosives, relic of progenitus, graffdigger's cage, pitching needle, spellskite, etc.
Against affinity there is stony silence, creeping corrosion, shatterstorm, hurkly's recall, golgari charm, zealous persecution, pyroclasm, anger of the gods, etc.
Against Grixis DS there is lingering souls, Mirran Crusader, Liliana's defeat, leyline of the void, relic of progenitus, Rest In Peace, dryad militant, chameleon collusus, etc.
Against burn there is kitchen finks, duress, collective brutality, spellskite, feed the clan, auriok champion, redirect, deflecting palm etc.
Against Eldrazi Tron there is ceremonius rejection.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
A simple "yes" would have sufficed.
U Merfolk
UB Tezzerator
UB Mill
Well living end got good after this last bunch of cyclers! I'm now at the stage of wondering how many copies of Leyline of the Void I'll need to find space for in the sideboard. An insane number of decks rely pretty hard on the graveyard just now.
As much as I think Nimble Mongoose is an interesting card I really feel like it's just going to make sultai the colour to play in the format. I feel at this point that creatures are waaaay too pushed and we especially don't need more creatures with spells stapled to them, especially not cheap or under-costed ones. I'd like some nice spells printed (Innocent Blood, Fact or Fiction, Counterspell or Vindicate) and some nice creatures printed (like Mother of Runes, Containment Priest or Cloud of Faeries).
I know some of those are unlikely and Cloud of Faeries is completely for my pet deck.
(I'd also like Faerie Squadron)
Edit - Adding a +1 for a land that sacs and blows up a land without a basic land type, it might curb big mana a bit an make tempo a little bit more of a thing in modern.
Legacy - LED Dredge, ANT & WDnT
To me it looks like grave hate has managed to keep GDS down while leaving some room for lantern and affinity to squeeze in with the stretched thin sideboards. People have yet to find a way to hate eldrazi away but many decks can contend with it and the meta may have settled a little bit with the cyclical sideboard game mixing things up slightly as time passes. Eldratron may have a bloated share near top tables but it isn't crowding out the plethora of other viable decks and while not perfect I think this is pretty awesome!
U Merfolk
UB Tezzerator
UB Mill
I am biased here because I just haven't played against Eldrazi Tron much in the past month (4 times) and I run a deck that has a positive matchup against it (Titan Shift), but I just don't think it's much of a problem, outside of people who despise the downfall of pure BGx strategies.
They have nut draws that just win the game. I don't think Wizards minds that, simply because it's not a Bloom Titan kind of feel. They are all creatures that "can be dealt with" and win via combat damage usually. Wizards wants a deck that a newbie can get, run HOT, and love the feel for Magic. It attracts newer players, while detracting some older ones.
*Yesterday I played against an opponent at a PPTQ who Tron'd on turn 3 all 3 games. It made it tough for me to win, but Titan Shift got it done. Don't get me wrong, it was somewhat frustrating, especially seeing multiple Walking Ballistas in games 1 and 2 and luckily fading them in game 3 (or I lose). I killed one with Beast Within in game 3. But imagine how frustrating it was for him to lose...at a PPTQ no less. Now, I know that W/L doesn't prove anything about E Tron. But I honestly don't see it as a problem until it has a 55% win rate vs. many decks and a high metashare. High meaning 15% or more...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I'm not sure what Containment Priest would do in Modern, other than mess up Griselbrand and Dredge decks. The biggest creature problems are almost always cast.
I would also like to see a land that allows you to tap and sacrifice a land to nuke a non-basic with no basic land types. Being able to sac a tapped land would help offset the tempo disadvantage that comes from using lands as lando devices.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I suggested Containment Priest for exactly that reason, it means the player of the Dredge deck would have to respect the card. They can't just dredge it all away and absolutely go for it if their opponent has the mana up. It adds a little more nuance to dredge without someone just playing Rest in Peace and dredge auto-losing and it's potentially even maindeckable as a 1 or 2 of in DnT type decks. I just think it's a really cool card.
Legacy - LED Dredge, ANT & WDnT
Priest is a cool card indeed. It also does work against CoCo...
Modern - Cheeri0s (building), Belcher (building), Lantern (building), UW Control (building)
RIP Magic Duels. Wizards will regret what they did to you.
I think Grixis is so mandatory to hate out, that it leaves E-Tron with very little hate outside of Rejection. I'm not sure most decks can really hate out Grixis and E-Tron while staying reasonable against the field
I think I'm gonna sell off my Goyfs and whatnot on MTGO to buy Eldrazi on mtgo, too, seeing that if you want to play a midrange deck, you're better off playing grixis or E-Tron, guess i'll play those two instead until GBx sees a comeback, which could be a very long time barring surprise bans/unbans.
The only scary thing is that if Shadow eats a ban, E-Tron will either eat a temple ban at the same time or later down the road. Hopefully neither deck is in danger; pleasantly surprised grixis is being regulated in the format.
Great point, I totally blanked on coco for a second there!
Legacy - LED Dredge, ANT & WDnT
This is probably the most unbiased positive the format could get, but I don't quite like your suggestion. I feel it would further homogenize decks into the fetch/shock mana base when I would like there to be more incentive to play check lands, fast lands, and filter lands. None of these are bad at all, they are just roll players to go along with the fetch/shock stranglehold on mama bases.
I'd like to see land hate that can only target lands that have activated abilities that aren't mana abilities, but that doesn't actually address tron lands or temple and I think the wording of "destroy a land that taps for more than one mana or has an activated ability that isn't a mana ability" would just be too clunky. But as you stated, there are a ton of options here and hoping wizards can come up with something better than any of us have here.
Those tournament results look great and diverse and pretty much solidifies the already clear picture that GDS doesn't need a ban at this point.
I imagine we will have to wait until we have another Eldrazi focused block, it will happen unless WotC decides to abandon the current story line which still has 2 of the 3 big Eldrazi running around the multiverse. Hopefully they print a useful "destroy target colorless creature" spell but i would be willing to bet that they would cost it at 3-4 mana
Why? Narrow hate cards rarely cost that much. The newest mono-color hate cards are all inexpensive. If the "destroy target colorless creature" is a sorcery, I expect it will cost 1 mana. 2 mana if it's an instant.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."