If splinter twin were unbanned in the banning announcements,
Do you guys feel UR Twin would still rein supreme, or would fatal push make it the better deck now?
Yeah, I think UR would still be the better version. It was always much more streamlined than the Grixis version, plus it was a way better Blood Moon deck post board. I'm not even sure how many Fatal Pushes a Grixis version could fit in. They only played like 2 Terminates, and you'll still need Terminate for things like Primeval Titan or the delve creatures.
Now if they do what I think they should do, which is unban Splinter Twin and ban Deceiver Exarch, then both the UR and Grixis versions aren't options anymore. In that case, I think Temur becomes the best option.
Honestly, Jace's +2 seems really good against Tron and other big mana decks that rely heavily on topdecks once they get to the midgame, and generally win based on the strength of their topdecks.
Yeah, I had the same thought. If you're able to deal with their first one or two threats and land a Jace, you can lower their chances of drawing another one. While I think Tron would still be favored over Jace control decks, it could reduce the gap by a bit, which is actually something we DO want. One of the problems with blue control is that its good matchups are just a bit favorable, but its bad matchups are abyssmal. If we make Tron just like a 40/60 matchup instead of the ~30/70 matchup it is right now, that would actually be very good for blue control.
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Modern UBR Grixis Shadow UBR UR Izzet Phoenix UR UW UW Control UW GB GB Rock GB
Commander BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
With Jace unbanned you'll just make not 1-2 tron players for league, for example, but 3-4 tron players during league instead. And this all bcs other slower decks will just die to Jace and there will be Aggro decks and tron decks with some Jace control decks.
This makes no sense.
You can make better match up with tron just replacing Serum visions to Preordain.
I can't help but think that perhaps some of us are overstating Umezawa's Jitte powerlevel, I honestly believe it's on par with Punishing Fire, but that was banned pretty quickly. So it' won't be coming off, but most of us have a strong reason to believe it would warp Modern more than what is probably desired. Remember, the only section of cards banned more than Blue cards are Colorless cards.
I probably shouldn't open my big mouth, but what if Deathrite Shaman gets spoiled in MM2017? Does this mean that there will be unban hype?
I imagine yes. I think they said before that they didn't want to print Modern-era cards in MM if they weren't legal. Not sure of source or actual quote.
Any deck playing removal (ie, nearly 100% of modern) can also deal with jitte. Jitte needs to be equipped and have a ready critter to attack, that needs to connect.
Yet despite this abundance of removal people continue to be killed by creature combat. Affinity even does it through artifact hate.
Jitte is a card that's played in a deck that wants to win via creature damage. Without SFM people would run four even though it's legendary. It's that game changing. Duplicates aren't a problem because chances are if you land the first one, you're winning.
One other benefit it has over BS is it only costs two. Making it easy to cast for any deck.
I'm talking dealing with Jitte, not with affinity dumping their entire hand on the table on T1.
I see no world where dsa is more fun to play against than twin. I don't see why people thing getting cards ripped from your hand for 3 turns is better than having them countered. Discard is by far more efficient in modern than counters. Twin even played remands so most of the time you got your spells back. Also whoever said av would need to be banned for twin to come back is crazy. Twin doesn't want to spend time on having 4 av, would they maybe and I mean maybe play 2 somewhere in the 75? People are so scared of cards coming back or being put into the moder pool it's hilarious, this format is already way stronger than people are judging it as.
I see no world where dsa is more fun to play against than twin. I don't see why people thing getting cards ripped from your hand for 3 turns is better than having them countered. Discard is by far more efficient in modern than counters. Twin even played remands so most of the time you got your spells back. Also whoever said av would need to be banned for twin to come back is crazy. Twin doesn't want to spend time on having 4 av, would they maybe and I mean maybe play 2 somewhere in the 75? People are so scared of cards coming back or being put into the moder pool it's hilarious, this format is already way stronger than people are judging it as.
What I liked about Twin as the other police deck is that there was just a bigger variety of disruption in the format. You would run into Thoughtseize one round and Remand another. Now it will be Thoughtseize and Thoughtseize.
And it's too early to say whether DSA is a straight-up better BGx. It's also possible we run into Thoughtseize and Thoughtseize from the same deck!
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Gbx has card advantage now. Look how great Liliana the last hope has been in dsa or how painful truths could fit into that/other builds. Not to menton tasigur. Every top deck has their thing and to let one exist while killing the other seems wrong. Notice gb lived through all of its bans while URx didn't live through 1?
What I have been seeing lately is a problem to try to resolve U problems with enabling other colors. So currently the discussion revolves around Stoneforge Mystic, Jace the Mind Sculptor, Preordain and Splinter Twin to fix issues with blue control decks. However two of these cards are not blue and this means that they don't fix underlying problems, they just introduce decks and decks are easy to beat.
The problem with blue is the lack of consistency in addition to really low impact situational permission. Basically things that blue provides at the moment are not in par with black's and red's removals/threats or with green's card selection and raw stats (poor white).
Allowing Splinter Twin or SFM doesn't fix any of these issues. It MIGHT make a blue deck viable (URx Twin or Esper/Jeskai blade) but 1) we are not certain of their impact and 2) they could fit in other shells as well (mostly SFM). Additionally, blue players will have, once again, to focus on a specific deck and other blue control decks will simply not be viable. You will either play red or white because blue is just there to provide support.
Preordain or JTMS are way more realistic choice, imho, to address the issues of blue controling decks. Preordain fixes consistency issues and JTMS provides a grindy win-con which is actually good. People compared Uxx decks with Jund. Uxx control decks are supposed to be able to out-value Jund in the long game, in theory at least. JTMS will fix that issue quite a bit. It will make blue decks solid for what they do. Sure, they will still lose to Tron and big mana decks, but that is also the nature of things, you don't want to break the format, you just want a SOLID blue deck which has 60-40 and 40-60 MUs much like Jund has.
At this stage I REALLY hope they take the JTMS discussion seriously and give it at least some thought and, who knows, maybe even some testing for once.
Yikes, back to Jitte? No thanks. Modern doesn't need all creature-based strategies to homogenize around Jitte wars. The first step consists of creature vs. creature battles devolving into "who sticks Jitte" battles. The second step consists of the metagame shifting to the 1-2 best Jitte decks, and all the non-creature decks that can beat the Jitte decks. In that regard, Jitte is a diversity reducer. There are much better options for increasing format health and diversity.
No sarcasm or anything of the kind intended here but, so sfm+batterskull is acceptable to a lot of people in this thread, because in modern there's all sort of ways of dealing with it, kcommand, incidental artifact hate, push, etc. But jitte would single handedly demolish the format? So, some people seem able to deal with a batterskull on t3, but not with a jitte on the same turn?
Also, and in regards to the quote, I imagine, since a lot of people have issues with modern turning into a 'creature sideways' format that jitte would then be able to solve that issue to a great extent?
SFM doesn't degenerate all creature decks into SFM mirrors. Jitte does. SFM also helps out two colors that are struggling (white and blue). Jitte just goes into whatever the best creature-based deck is and makes it even better.
Even if we talk about how easy/hard it is to answer a card, SFM is significantly easier to answer than Jitte. The only decks that can reliably answer Jitte with maindeck cards are BGx strategies (Decay, Pulse, K-Command, discard). Any deck playing removal can kill SFM. I don't actually care about how easy/hard something is to answer in a vacuum, but if we want to argue that point, SFM still wins over Jitte.
Any deck playing removal (ie, nearly 100% of modern) can also deal with jitte. Jitte needs to be equipped and have a ready critter to attack, that needs to connect.
And when you say that SFM won't turn things into mirrors, but will help ux, it will also help any colour combination that includes w and can slot it. You will have a ton of sfm mirrors.
You are dramatically overstating the power of Modern removal. Plenty of decks win with creatures connecting and dealing damage. Obviously if these decks are connecting to win pre-Jitte against removal, they are going to keep connecting post-Jitte against removal. No decks play this kind of "remove everything" game well in competitive Modern, which is why creature decks are strong in this format, and why Jitte would disproportionately benefit the decks who are best at this game. That's a diversity reducer and not okay.
The big worries with SFM are Abzan and Bant Eldrazi, two top tier white decks that don't need any help. I suspect Wizards thinks the same way, which is why I wouldn't bet on an SFM unban. At least Preordain and Jace don't go in any top tier decks. But you are incorrect if you think the non-white decks would start playing white just for SFM. The manabase cost is too steep. Moreover, if you are worried about SFM slotting in top tier decks, that worry must necessarily be less than your fears of Jitte slotting into top tier decks. The former is a white card typically occupying 6-7 slots. Jitte is a colorless card occupying just 2-4. Top tier decks would have a much easier time including and benefiting from Jitte than they would SFM.
As much as I think SFM isn't broken, what does her unban accomplish right now? If linear, creature aggro was rampant, we'd be having a serious conversation. But how does this help the format right now? Sure, it's ok if a players Tron deck is crapping on him, but it's not fantastic.
What does SFM unbanning do? It doesn't stop a 7/7 flyer going through his whole deck and killing me, it doesn't stop Eldrazi Tron. All it does is improve Abzan, stifle any blue decks not splashing white, and hurt Jund on top of it.
You could argue that it improves Death and Taxes, which would revitalize the archetype and help fight these ramp decks
Jace absolutely, 100% does NOTHING. Great, blue decks shouldn't be losing against the GBx archetype, so it'll be the king of beating midrange decks while it dies to ramp and combo and fast, linear decks? You're encouraging interactive decks to have more 40/60s-35/75's, if that's the case, why the hell are jund and junk players even going to bother with the archetype, at that point I may as well play a goldfish deck that can provide free wins and have strong matchups elsewhere. Jace literally does nothing but stifle interactive decks, and funny enough, all he may do is power up BUG midrange, and you'd still be left with no control deck.
There's also the doomsday scenario that a far better player than anyone in this thread suggests it could endanger the entire format, according to Cory Burkhart. If anyone has the link and explanation, that'd be fantastic
I am adamantly against Jace, he does absolutely NOTHING for this format
SFM is a little closer to the unban for me, if she can seriously power up death and taxes, white weenies, Eldazi and Taxes, maybe. Although now this could lead to issues about Eldrazi Temple, since so many decks will be running this card.
I'm not sure if you guys can see it, but right now the format is having an issue with breaking the pie chart, look at how many powerful cards are colorless, and look at the success colorless decks are having, I'm pretty certain this wasn't WOTC's intention
I'm for a preordain unban, Sheridan asked for you guys to point out what dangerous deck it could make oppressive and thus far no one has backed up those claims
I think my issue is that preordain does not fix the issue that blue has, although it's certainly the right step. Going into the right step doesn't stop the color from being absolute crap though. The fact that Snapcaster is a 30 dollar card despite almost being at Goyf levels is astounding (Goyfs still better across the board, let's not kid ourselves).
Preordain and SFM unban if you want to improve blue a little
Twin unban if you want blue to stop being a joke in the format
If Twin wins too much again, they can seriously look into banning Exarch without angering players, since as how UR Twin was incredibly powerful due to it's blue moon sideboard control plan
Jeskai Twin is very powerful, but it's definitely clunkier
Alternatively, you could unban Dig Through Time if you want blue to stop being a joke in the format and for there to be more than one possible good blue deck.
I don't like Jace, The Mind Sculptor at all. He is great at winning all of the midrange decks, and can be from mediocre to useless vs decks like Tron, Valakut, Scapeshift, Infect, Affinity, Burn, Dredge, Boggles, Tokens etc.
Yes, some time he will be fatesealing midrange decks out of the game. Will that be a fun element? No. Will Jace make URx decks better at winning vs big mana decks or even aggro decks hitting from different angles? No.
Ktkenshinx said a lot of times already that URx's decks fall reason is not Tron/Valakut/Eldrazi but that URx (or U-based control/attrition decks) are simply not good enough and this is highlighted by the fact that BGx is still doing GREAT despite the fact that Big mana decks and other attrition natural predators exist in the format.
So, can anyone tell me:
How the heck Jace, The Mind Sculptor will help URx control/attrition decks win their bad matchups?
On top of that, how will the card help if a respectable portion of Modern's meta rises to the ocassion and tries to go under him or ignore him? Meaning move away from decks like Jund and play Abzan Midrange(Lingering Souls can still wreck him apart) or play Tron, or RG Valakut/Titanshift variations, or Bant Eldrazi, or Burn, etc?
Blue based control/attrition decks were good only once during Modern's history. With Splinter Twin. Those decks need A kind of FAST(not turn 4 violator) win con button in the vast sea of Modern's linearity. Do you think Splinter Twin is too good? Unban it and ban Deceiver Exarch. But even that is not necessary imo. Just give Splinter Twin.
Honestly, Jace's +2 seems really good against Tron and other big mana decks that rely heavily on topdecks once they get to the midgame, and generally win based on the strength of their topdecks.
True. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would help a lot if I could send Karns to the bottom of their deck.
What I have been seeing lately is a problem to try to resolve U problems with enabling other colors. So currently the discussion revolves around Stoneforge Mystic, Jace the Mind Sculptor, Preordain and Splinter Twin to fix issues with blue control decks. However two of these cards are not blue and this means that they don't fix underlying problems, they just introduce decks and decks are easy to beat.
The problem with blue is the lack of consistency in addition to really low impact situational permission. Basically things that blue provides at the moment are not in par with black's and red's removals/threats or with green's card selection and raw stats (poor white).
Allowing Splinter Twin or SFM doesn't fix any of these issues. It MIGHT make a blue deck viable (URx Twin or Esper/Jeskai blade) but 1) we are not certain of their impact and 2) they could fit in other shells as well (mostly SFM). Additionally, blue players will have, once again, to focus on a specific deck and other blue control decks will simply not be viable. You will either play red or white because blue is just there to provide support.
Preordain or JTMS are way more realistic choice, imho, to address the issues of blue controling decks. Preordain fixes consistency issues and JTMS provides a grindy win-con which is actually good. People compared Uxx decks with Jund. Uxx control decks are supposed to be able to out-value Jund in the long game, in theory at least. JTMS will fix that issue quite a bit. It will make blue decks solid for what they do. Sure, they will still lose to Tron and big mana decks, but that is also the nature of things, you don't want to break the format, you just want a SOLID blue deck which has 60-40 and 40-60 MUs much like Jund has.
At this stage I REALLY hope they take the JTMS discussion seriously and give it at least some thought and, who knows, maybe even some testing for once.
This is why I want to unban Dig Through Time. It is a blue card that is guaranteed to be powerful enough to make an interactive blue deck tier 1.
Dig Through Time. This is locked in the Banlist. This card points to a totally stifled and broken period of time in Modern's history according to Wizards and it's not coming for the same reasons that Eye Of Ugin points to another broken period of time, even if the latter is significantly stronger and metagame warping. Apparently they see this as a Treasure Cruise replacement, even if this is not 100% the case(maybe it is up to a point though).
Splinter Twin. This, I don't know how much WOTC is willing to go with, but they should choose something. This honestly feels the one that I can support the most since it was banned to help URx decks become better and less homogenized, yet we saw no signs of those decks in the near Tier 1 region.
4) Massive bans(things like Eldrazi Temple, etc). Don't want to even think about that and honestly don't even think it's wanted/needed. BGx does compete with the metagame despite Tron, Eldrazi, Valakut, Dredge, Boggles, etc decks being legal.
Bgx competes because they actually have some form of a god hand. Thoughtseize into goyf ends the game while your opponent tries to recover from the discard. I really in the camp where I believe that blue just needs their own proactive if you do not have then I win kind of hands. That is why I prefer a twin unban over anything else. Look how much better bgx got win they found a way to use deaths shadow along with goyf. More proactive and powerful your threats the better chances you have of blowing through stumbling opponents or over decks that are trying to be too fancy.
I dont understand people who wants splinter twin unbanned with deceiver exarch taking it place on the banned list. UR twin was the deck that kept in check the other strategies, not grixis, not rug. A weakened version is just bad. Look at kiki-jiki, same effect but worst, and here we are
I basically think both are OK. Modern needs having proactive threats because of the massive card pool and because of the first legal Modern sets that there exist (7th-8th-9th etc) even if it's in a control or a midrange deck and that's what the new Death's Shadow deck is doing. That's what Splinter Twin was doing as well.
I think you are right here. The cardpool is so massive that you basically need to have something in your deck that, at one point, it will ingnore what the other person is doing(or locking them out) and finish the game. There are no cards that respond every card in the format with the exception of Thoughtseize which is a fantastic card.
I wonder if Jace could bring something new to the table. A mix between a lock, and card advantage pillar and a win-condition.
Dig Through Time. This is locked in the Banlist. This card points to a totally stifled and broken period of time in Modern's history according to Wizards and it's not coming for the same reasons that Eye Of Ugin points to another broken period of time, even if the latter is significantly stronger and metagame warping. Apparently they see this as a Treasure Cruise replacement, even if this is not 100% the case(maybe it is up to a point though).
Splinter Twin. This, I don't know how much WOTC is willing to go with, but they should choose something. This honestly feels the one that I can support the most since it was banned to help URx decks become better and less homogenized, yet we saw no signs of those decks in the near Tier 1 region.
4) Massive bans(things like Eldrazi Temple, etc). Don't want to even think about that and honestly don't even think it's wanted/needed. BGx does compete with the metagame despite Tron, Eldrazi, Valakut, Dredge, Boggles, etc decks being legal.
Bgx competes because they actually have some form of a god hand. Thoughtseize into goyf ends the game while your opponent tries to recover from the discard. I really in the camp where I believe that blue just needs their own proactive if you do not have then I win kind of hands. That is why I prefer a twin unban over anything else. Look how much better bgx got win they found a way to use deaths shadow along with goyf. More proactive and powerful your threats the better chances you have of blowing through stumbling opponents or over decks that are trying to be too fancy.
True, blue needs to be more proactive/competative. twin is most definately the best option in that regard.
Question, why do people keep insisting that we need a good uRx deck? I do get the desire for blue to be stronger in the format, and I agree with it completely, but why Red? Bolt-Snap-Bolt is a great play, but it's not really what Blue is about. I have been working on a uB deck and it's actually quite controlling, just a pile of discard, cantrips, Delvers and counters with Snap, and Bob when i can afford it, keeping the other player helpless until Delver beats them, or I flip Thing in the Ice. People keeping talking about Twin, but Thing is a great, great finisher for blue, if Twin were unbanned, I would keep playing Thing. I do want Blue to have new toys and be represented in the format, same as white, I just don't understand why people insist on Red?
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Question, why do people keep insisting that we need a good uRx deck? I do get the desire for blue to be stronger in the format, and I agree with it completely, but why Red? Bolt-Snap-Bolt is a great play, but it's not really what Blue is about. I have been working on a uB deck and it's actually quite controlling, just a pile of discard, cantrips, Delvers and counters with Snap, and Bob when i can afford it, keeping the other player helpless until Delver beats them, or I flip Thing in the Ice. People keeping talking about Twin, but Thing is a great, great finisher for blue, if Twin were unbanned, I would keep playing Thing. I do want Blue to have new toys and be represented in the format, same as white, I just don't understand why people insist on Red?
If mono-blue, or something of the kind is the target, then you would need something like back to basics in the format.
Question, why do people keep insisting that we need a good uRx deck? I do get the desire for blue to be stronger in the format, and I agree with it completely, but why Red? Bolt-Snap-Bolt is a great play, but it's not really what Blue is about. I have been working on a uB deck and it's actually quite controlling, just a pile of discard, cantrips, Delvers and counters with Snap, and Bob when i can afford it, keeping the other player helpless until Delver beats them, or I flip Thing in the Ice. People keeping talking about Twin, but Thing is a great, great finisher for blue, if Twin were unbanned, I would keep playing Thing. I do want Blue to have new toys and be represented in the format, same as white, I just don't understand why people insist on Red?
Because ultimately, people are still looking at Twin. We can all deny it, but its true.
I've listed to a lot of podcasts and read a lot of content this week following the GP and one thing keeps coming up over and over and over. To paraphrase 'If you do not have a deck that gets free wins, you cannot be top tier competitive'.
That means Turn 3 Exarch, tap your land, turn 4 Twin, GG.
There is nothing in blue that is remotely close to that, and while 'fair' games can be won with Delver for sure, its not going to carry over a tournament that is 10+ rounds, just due to varience. When my delvers dont flip...well internally I flip the table!
Red also offers the Plan be of Tempo/Burn and the beautiful Bolt/Snap/Bolt as you mentioned.
Anyway thats the main thing, people are unquestionably thinking of Twin when they say UR, also UR looks amazing on the table, its one of the most beautiful decks in existence, but thats just a personal thing I get hung up on.
Question, why do people keep insisting that we need a good uRx deck? I do get the desire for blue to be stronger in the format, and I agree with it completely, but why Red? Bolt-Snap-Bolt is a great play, but it's not really what Blue is about. I have been working on a uB deck and it's actually quite controlling, just a pile of discard, cantrips, Delvers and counters with Snap, and Bob when i can afford it, keeping the other player helpless until Delver beats them, or I flip Thing in the Ice. People keeping talking about Twin, but Thing is a great, great finisher for blue, if Twin were unbanned, I would keep playing Thing. I do want Blue to have new toys and be represented in the format, same as white, I just don't understand why people insist on Red?
I personally don't care whether it's URx or UXx. I just want a Tier 1 blue-based reactive deck in the format. This kind of deck is both a good internal safety measure against other less fair strategies, and an important pillar of previous Modern seasons that has been conspicuously absent for 6+ months now.
As for those who want URx strategies, I believe this arises from the Twin ban update itself. There, Wizards talked about how Twin supplanted other Jeskai and Temur strategies, suggesting those other URx strategies would become viable after Twin got banned. That never happened for a sustained period of time and it hasn't been happening at all since late summer 2016, so the Twin ban failed in that regard.
Preordain is still the clear unban target for addressing these issues. JTMS is fine, because it does help reactive blue and not other strategies, but not great, because it doesn't really address the archetype's major weaknesses (inability to find answers, "good" matchups not being as positive as the bad matchups are negative, win conditions that quickly turn the corner, etc.).
If blue's modern card pool gets better, delver is a really good choice. Btter cantrips would help, but i think that wasteland and stifle would make a very potent delver deck, that would help to keep in check a lot of strategies, without the need of unbanning twin or jace or something like that
I basically think both are OK. Modern needs having proactive threats because of the massive card pool and because of the first legal Modern sets that there exist (7th-8th-9th etc) even if it's in a control or a midrange deck and that's what the new Death's Shadow deck is doing. That's what Splinter Twin was doing as well.
I think you are right here. The cardpool is so massive that you basically need to have something in your deck that, at one point, it will ingnore what the other person is doing(or locking them out) and finish the game. There are no cards that respond every card in the format with the exception of Thoughtseize which is a fantastic card.
I wonder if Jace could bring something new to the table. A mix between a lock, and card advantage pillar and a win-condition.
Not even thoughtseize responds to everything. Thoughtseize cannot do anything about top decks which is why bgx has bad matchups against one card combos like scapeshift if they do not kill them fast enough bbut they have a way to to close the game. Discard just pairs better with efficient beats while counterspell decks usually pair better with compact combos or prison elements.
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Yeah, I think UR would still be the better version. It was always much more streamlined than the Grixis version, plus it was a way better Blood Moon deck post board. I'm not even sure how many Fatal Pushes a Grixis version could fit in. They only played like 2 Terminates, and you'll still need Terminate for things like Primeval Titan or the delve creatures.
Now if they do what I think they should do, which is unban Splinter Twin and ban Deceiver Exarch, then both the UR and Grixis versions aren't options anymore. In that case, I think Temur becomes the best option.
Yeah, I had the same thought. If you're able to deal with their first one or two threats and land a Jace, you can lower their chances of drawing another one. While I think Tron would still be favored over Jace control decks, it could reduce the gap by a bit, which is actually something we DO want. One of the problems with blue control is that its good matchups are just a bit favorable, but its bad matchups are abyssmal. If we make Tron just like a 40/60 matchup instead of the ~30/70 matchup it is right now, that would actually be very good for blue control.
UBR Grixis Shadow UBR
UR Izzet Phoenix UR
UW UW Control UW
GB GB Rock GB
Commander
BG Meren of Clan Nel Toth BG
BGUW Atraxa, Praetor's Voice BGUW
This makes no sense.
You can make better match up with tron just replacing Serum visions to Preordain.
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I'm talking dealing with Jitte, not with affinity dumping their entire hand on the table on T1.
And it's too early to say whether DSA is a straight-up better BGx. It's also possible we run into Thoughtseize and Thoughtseize from the same deck!
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The problem with blue is the lack of consistency in addition to really low impact situational permission. Basically things that blue provides at the moment are not in par with black's and red's removals/threats or with green's card selection and raw stats (poor white).
Allowing Splinter Twin or SFM doesn't fix any of these issues. It MIGHT make a blue deck viable (URx Twin or Esper/Jeskai blade) but 1) we are not certain of their impact and 2) they could fit in other shells as well (mostly SFM). Additionally, blue players will have, once again, to focus on a specific deck and other blue control decks will simply not be viable. You will either play red or white because blue is just there to provide support.
Preordain or JTMS are way more realistic choice, imho, to address the issues of blue controling decks. Preordain fixes consistency issues and JTMS provides a grindy win-con which is actually good. People compared Uxx decks with Jund. Uxx control decks are supposed to be able to out-value Jund in the long game, in theory at least. JTMS will fix that issue quite a bit. It will make blue decks solid for what they do. Sure, they will still lose to Tron and big mana decks, but that is also the nature of things, you don't want to break the format, you just want a SOLID blue deck which has 60-40 and 40-60 MUs much like Jund has.
At this stage I REALLY hope they take the JTMS discussion seriously and give it at least some thought and, who knows, maybe even some testing for once.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
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You are dramatically overstating the power of Modern removal. Plenty of decks win with creatures connecting and dealing damage. Obviously if these decks are connecting to win pre-Jitte against removal, they are going to keep connecting post-Jitte against removal. No decks play this kind of "remove everything" game well in competitive Modern, which is why creature decks are strong in this format, and why Jitte would disproportionately benefit the decks who are best at this game. That's a diversity reducer and not okay.
The big worries with SFM are Abzan and Bant Eldrazi, two top tier white decks that don't need any help. I suspect Wizards thinks the same way, which is why I wouldn't bet on an SFM unban. At least Preordain and Jace don't go in any top tier decks. But you are incorrect if you think the non-white decks would start playing white just for SFM. The manabase cost is too steep. Moreover, if you are worried about SFM slotting in top tier decks, that worry must necessarily be less than your fears of Jitte slotting into top tier decks. The former is a white card typically occupying 6-7 slots. Jitte is a colorless card occupying just 2-4. Top tier decks would have a much easier time including and benefiting from Jitte than they would SFM.
Alternatively, you could unban Dig Through Time if you want blue to stop being a joke in the format and for there to be more than one possible good blue deck.
True. It wouldn't be perfect, but it would help a lot if I could send Karns to the bottom of their deck.
It isn't going to happen. BGx still has multiple versions that are tier 1 and DRS was the best card that BGx has ever gotten to play with.
This is why I want to unban Dig Through Time. It is a blue card that is guaranteed to be powerful enough to make an interactive blue deck tier 1.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Bgx competes because they actually have some form of a god hand. Thoughtseize into goyf ends the game while your opponent tries to recover from the discard. I really in the camp where I believe that blue just needs their own proactive if you do not have then I win kind of hands. That is why I prefer a twin unban over anything else. Look how much better bgx got win they found a way to use deaths shadow along with goyf. More proactive and powerful your threats the better chances you have of blowing through stumbling opponents or over decks that are trying to be too fancy.
I think you are right here. The cardpool is so massive that you basically need to have something in your deck that, at one point, it will ingnore what the other person is doing(or locking them out) and finish the game. There are no cards that respond every card in the format with the exception of Thoughtseize which is a fantastic card.
I wonder if Jace could bring something new to the table. A mix between a lock, and card advantage pillar and a win-condition.
True, blue needs to be more proactive/competative. twin is most definately the best option in that regard.
decks playing:
none
1. Boltable.
2. 2RRR, it puts noticeable pressure on the manabase, and is more than just 'wait one more turn'.
I dont know, I agree though, that forcing into 3 colour would knock the deck down considerably.
Spirits
If mono-blue, or something of the kind is the target, then you would need something like back to basics in the format.
Because ultimately, people are still looking at Twin. We can all deny it, but its true.
I've listed to a lot of podcasts and read a lot of content this week following the GP and one thing keeps coming up over and over and over. To paraphrase 'If you do not have a deck that gets free wins, you cannot be top tier competitive'.
That means Turn 3 Exarch, tap your land, turn 4 Twin, GG.
There is nothing in blue that is remotely close to that, and while 'fair' games can be won with Delver for sure, its not going to carry over a tournament that is 10+ rounds, just due to varience. When my delvers dont flip...well internally I flip the table!
Red also offers the Plan be of Tempo/Burn and the beautiful Bolt/Snap/Bolt as you mentioned.
Anyway thats the main thing, people are unquestionably thinking of Twin when they say UR, also UR looks amazing on the table, its one of the most beautiful decks in existence, but thats just a personal thing I get hung up on.
Spirits
I personally don't care whether it's URx or UXx. I just want a Tier 1 blue-based reactive deck in the format. This kind of deck is both a good internal safety measure against other less fair strategies, and an important pillar of previous Modern seasons that has been conspicuously absent for 6+ months now.
As for those who want URx strategies, I believe this arises from the Twin ban update itself. There, Wizards talked about how Twin supplanted other Jeskai and Temur strategies, suggesting those other URx strategies would become viable after Twin got banned. That never happened for a sustained period of time and it hasn't been happening at all since late summer 2016, so the Twin ban failed in that regard.
Preordain is still the clear unban target for addressing these issues. JTMS is fine, because it does help reactive blue and not other strategies, but not great, because it doesn't really address the archetype's major weaknesses (inability to find answers, "good" matchups not being as positive as the bad matchups are negative, win conditions that quickly turn the corner, etc.).
Not even thoughtseize responds to everything. Thoughtseize cannot do anything about top decks which is why bgx has bad matchups against one card combos like scapeshift if they do not kill them fast enough bbut they have a way to to close the game. Discard just pairs better with efficient beats while counterspell decks usually pair better with compact combos or prison elements.