I'm having a hard time following this logic. If Twin stifled control decks, why are control decks struggling so much nearly a year after the ban? Every blue based control deck is worse off now than it was before the ban.
Twin took care of a lot of the linear degeneracy,
which helped control decks narrow their answer suite. And Twin itself was always a positive matchup for control decks and other highly interactive decks. Since the ban, the shift has been extremely clear away from interaction and toward linear/speed,and one of the biggest casualties has been blue-based interactive amd control decks. (which is the OPPOSITE effect that the ban was supposed to produce)
The format is now faster with the new cards that entered from Standard.
Swiftspear, Atarka's Command, Become Immense, Temur battle rage, Blossoming defense... Control is supposed to lose to such aggression.
Twin + untapper/blinker is a combo deck, not a fair control strategy.
If you wanna play control in Modern, ask WOTC to slow the format.
I second mlad_jiraf here
It's not the "control" part of the deck that allowed Twin to win vs linear degeneracy, it was the Combo-Kill that allowed that
Control is supposed to lose to fast aggro, and combo is supposed to outrace non-interactive aggro.
Whatever Burn, Infect or suicide zoo are trying to do, T3 Exarch into T4 Splinter Twin will always do it better because it has access to removal (bolt) and cantrips (serum visions) turn 1 , Remand turn 2 and combo kill turn 3.5
Twin took care of this because it was a degenerate combo not a control deck.
The key difference though is that Twin did this without actually suppressing any of those decks. The ones strong enough to be signature, mainstay, consistent Tier 1 decks (like Burn and Affinity) still did just fine. In fact if you combine Burn and Affinity, those actually got more GP Top 8s last year than Twin, so Twin was definitely beatable and fast aggro was definitely viable.
So that means it was able to deal with those decks SOME times but not ALL times, which is perfect for a policing deck. If it won "all" the time (like Eldrazi), then it would be oppressive. Twin was never oppressive.
Yet the meta was not as diverse when Twin was around, Twin was suppressing decks not by oppressing them but by narrowing the choice : If you want to win you either play twin or a deck that beats twin.
There's no such a deck nowadays.
Except that "beating Twin" meant running simple interaction cards that could be main-decked. Stuff like discard spells, creature removal, and counterspells. Now that there is no looming deck that really requires you to pack interaction, our Tier 1 list is almost entirely fast aggro decks that seek to outrace you. Is that really MORE diverse than when our Tier 1 was made up of aggro, combo, control, ramp, and midrange?
and if you think ponder is too strong then fine; make anticipate a one drop and make it a sorcery or something. i need more than 4 serum visions in a deck
4x Thought Scour with Snapcaster Mage and Kolaghan's Command is pretty good.
Yet the meta was not as diverse when Twin was around, Twin was suppressing decks not by oppressing them but by narrowing the choice : If you want to win you either play twin or a deck that beats twin.
This is not true. Affinity had a bad Twin MU, but it was the second most played deck. Also RG tron was almost always Tier 1 in that period.
RG Tron also wasn't nearly as bad against Twin as people said it was. Their sideboard was essentially 50/50 cards that defeat aggro and cards that wreck Twin. Sometimes they would board the full 4 Rending Volley and 4 Nature's Claim, which made Twin's job a lot harder.
Plus, Newlamog was a nightmare to deal with. The on-cast exile trigger was often back-breaking.
The legends of Twin being this unbeatable monster get more and more exaggerated every day.
And I dont want it to be legacy where you basically have to run brainstorm to find said answer cards.
Junk
Modern design is having a big impact on Legacy. Brainstorm usage is at the lowest point on the format that it's been in 8 years, under 50% of decks. It's SDT usage that's on the increase to compensate. Personally I play a Junk deck in Legacy in Nic Fit (which is tier 2) and my draw suite is so strong, I can easily out draw and out search the blue decks. Blue is still important in that format because of the role FoW plays, but the cantrip package has been falling out of favor.
last i checked brainstorm was nowhere near below 50%, in fact its the most played card according to goldfish
Actually, for control to have a chance, they would probably need to ban Cavern of Souls
I don't mind that control loses to aggro, it's suppose to be that way
But that control has no chances against the #1 midrange deck (eldrazi) because all of its creature are uncounterable? that's kind of ridiculous
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"What's your plan?" Gideon asked.
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
Actually, for control to have a chance, they would probably need to ban Cavern of Souls
I don't mind that control loses to aggro, it's suppose to be that way
But that control has no chances against the #1 midrange deck (eldrazi) because all of its creature are uncounterable? that's kind of ridiculous
If they ban Cavern, expect even more on cast triggers that will make the control players cry in the upcoming standard sets.
So it won't do much.
Abrupt Decay is a bigger problem than Cavern, because it makes enchantments unplayable and there are many that are many that are playable in control style decks. Also any deck can run disenchant type spells or creatures.
How does banning Cavern make more on cast triggers get printed? On cast triggers are mostly on Eldrazi so until they show up again I don't think they're going to print enough cast triggers to cause an even greater problem than exists now. And if they don't ban Cavern those cards are going to be printed anyway.
Banning Cavern would help blue decks a bit so they could actually reliably answer some creatures.
The problem with Cavern and Decay,for me, is that they exist together. They combine to make it just a little harder for blue to interact with creatures and protect low cost permanents. Answering Creatures and playing low cost permanents are two of the big cornerstones of modern and blue has obstacles they must overcome that other colors don't. Part of that is also that blue doesn't have great creature answers to begin with and Cavern just makes it worse.
I don't think Cavern of Souls is such a problem but the whole efficiency of the deck is. It's a midrange deck with good disruption and very fast clock which means it's good against control and against other midrange decks, against these ones mostly because they go bigger and fast enough to beat most aggro and combo decks.
I honestly don't know hot to deal with it without killing it. The easiest way would be Eldrazi Temple deck but this just kills the deck and I don't have feeling Wizards want this.
Honestly i think we deal with it the same way we deal with tron, let infect scare it off then whip our bolts out and slap the infect players off their high horse. Then we of course cry as eldrazi comes back to smash us back to reality, and we have to call our toxic friends back
If anything I think Bant Eldrazi allows proper control deckss like Esper to be even more viable. Hard removal in Path, hard sweepers in Verdict, tap and draw with cryptic command and access to hand disruption like Thoughtseize that ignores cavern of souls and prevents ETB triggers and top this off with raw card adv with draw spells like Sphinx Rev, Esper Charm or AV. It's just the way most of the T1-2 control decks are built to attack aggro strategies with conditional sweepers like Anger and conditional counters and removal that do little to stop Eldrazi. It's really just a glorified midrange deck and modern has more than enough tools to deal with it. Sure they might get their double temple god hand, but so does every other deck. I'm more worried about Eldrazi-Tron tbh, all the nasty Eldrazi plus having to deal with on cast triggers from o sower, worldbreaker and ulamog, ugin and friends with temples and urza lands. That deck is way better against control than the bant version but suffers against strategies that the bant version is better against. Everything has a strength and a weakness.
I don't think Cavern of Souls is such a problem but the whole efficiency of the deck is. It's a midrange deck with good disruption and very fast clock which means it's good against control and against other midrange decks, against these ones mostly because they go bigger and fast enough to beat most aggro and combo decks.
I honestly don't know hot to deal with it without killing it. The easiest way would be Eldrazi Temple deck but this just kills the deck and I don't have feeling Wizards want this.
Well, Mana Leak and Cryptic Command are the best answers against TKS and Reality Smasher. Cavern of Souls would prevent that instantly and would nerf Eldrazi a bit. Eldrazi can stay in that way (the mana can't be used to pay for Leak anyway...). I don't know if anything should be banned, this is just a consideration.
Baleful Strix, Innocent Blood, a cheap counterspell that can hit 3 or less spells, and someway to gain hand advantage that is not overpowered. I would absolutely support Baleful Strix in Modern. It trades with creatures and is a cantrip --incredible road block against aggressive strategies. Grixis can tap out against against infect, zoo and others and not have the weight of the world on their shoulders.
Except that "beating Twin" meant running simple interaction cards that could be main-decked. Stuff like discard spells, creature removal, and counterspells. Now that there is no looming deck that really requires you to pack interaction[...]
What if they printed a cheap counterspell that has a kicker or escalate effect? Like pay 2 mana to counter a 3 drop or less. The additional effect would be like.. kicker for 1 and counter target spell. Or escalate pay 3 life: counter target spell instead.
I don't think Cavern of Souls is such a problem but the whole efficiency of the deck is. It's a midrange deck with good disruption and very fast clock which means it's good against control and against other midrange decks, against these ones mostly because they go bigger and fast enough to beat most aggro and combo decks.
I honestly don't know hot to deal with it without killing it. The easiest way would be Eldrazi Temple deck but this just kills the deck and I don't have feeling Wizards want this.
Well, Mana Leak and Cryptic Command are the best answers against TKS and Reality Smasher. Cavern of Souls would prevent that instantly and would nerf Eldrazi a bit. Eldrazi can stay in that way (the mana can't be used to pay for Leak anyway...). I don't know if anything should be banned, this is just a consideration.
True, but I think Eldrazi is wider problem as it is good against all fair decks not just blue based control and while this would help control it wouldn't help other decks struggling with it.
I'm not sure anything should be banned either but just thinking about problems it causes and its possible solutions but this isn't necessary a ban.
If Blue Control decks would be able to control Eldrazi, that would be an interesting dynamic for sure. Not sure if Eldrazi can survive Leak, Snap, Leak. Not all decks should necessarily be beating Eldrazi, but each deck must have a weakness in order to sustain an interesting metagame dynamic.
[quote from="Aazadan »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/760068-state-of-the-meta-thread-talk-about-modern-as-a?comment=98"]last i checked brainstorm was nowhere near below 50%, in fact its the most played card according to goldfish
Check out the DTB section on the Source. MTG Goldfish is using online data, Source is using paper, they're very different metagames.
As for what that means for Modern, it really seems to me like Modern needs some way to get cards in the format that doesn't come from Standard.
Actually, for control to have a chance, they would probably need to ban Cavern of Souls
I don't mind that control loses to aggro, it's suppose to be that way
But that control has no chances against the #1 midrange deck (eldrazi) because all of its creature are uncounterable? that's kind of ridiculous
I completely disagree with this. Cavern was barely played in the format before the Eldrazi deck, and in the decks where it was played the board control elements to the control decks did just fine. Cavern is completely innocent in all this. The real culprit is Eldrazi Temple. The fact that they didn't ban both Sol Lands is baffling to me, and Bant Eldrazi could easily survive a Temple ban.
Actually, for control to have a chance, they would probably need to ban Cavern of Souls
I don't mind that control loses to aggro, it's suppose to be that way
But that control has no chances against the #1 midrange deck (eldrazi) because all of its creature are uncounterable? that's kind of ridiculous
I completely disagree with this. Cavern was barely played in the format before the Eldrazi deck, and in the decks where it was played the board control elements to the control decks did just fine. Cavern is completely innocent in all this. The real culprit is Eldrazi Temple. The fact that they didn't ban both Sol Lands is baffling to me, and Bant Eldrazi could easily survive a Temple ban.
No way Eldrazi can survive a temple ban. Their power is cheating big creatures 2 turns early. Without it, they're just sitting ducks. Even the Colorless Eldrazi Tron has trouble.
Actually, for control to have a chance, they would probably need to ban Cavern of Souls
I don't mind that control loses to aggro, it's suppose to be that way
But that control has no chances against the #1 midrange deck (eldrazi) because all of its creature are uncounterable? that's kind of ridiculous
I completely disagree with this. Cavern was barely played in the format before the Eldrazi deck, and in the decks where it was played the board control elements to the control decks did just fine. Cavern is completely innocent in all this. The real culprit is Eldrazi Temple. The fact that they didn't ban both Sol Lands is baffling to me, and Bant Eldrazi could easily survive a Temple ban.
No way Eldrazi can survive a temple ban. Their power is cheating big creatures 2 turns early. Without it, they're just sitting ducks. Even the Colorless Eldrazi Tron has trouble.
Yes but don't forget that they play mana dorks as well. They can just up the number of mana dorks and reduce a part of the impact. Sure there will be no way they could T2 TKS then but I don't think that is bad. T2 TKS on the play is one of the strongest things you can do in modern.
Actually, for control to have a chance, they would probably need to ban Cavern of Souls
I don't mind that control loses to aggro, it's suppose to be that way
But that control has no chances against the #1 midrange deck (eldrazi) because all of its creature are uncounterable? that's kind of ridiculous
I completely disagree with this. Cavern was barely played in the format before the Eldrazi deck, and in the decks where it was played the board control elements to the control decks did just fine. Cavern is completely innocent in all this. The real culprit is Eldrazi Temple. The fact that they didn't ban both Sol Lands is baffling to me, and Bant Eldrazi could easily survive a Temple ban.
No way Eldrazi can survive a temple ban. Their power is cheating big creatures 2 turns early. Without it, they're just sitting ducks. Even the Colorless Eldrazi Tron has trouble.
Yes but don't forget that they play mana dorks as well. They can just up the number of mana dorks and reduce a part of the impact. Sure there will be no way they could T2 TKS then but I don't think that is bad. T2 TKS on the play is one of the strongest things you can do in modern.
How many creatures above 2 cmc are played in modern...
Even 3 drops are almost unplayable. Good luck casting 4-5 cmc eldrazi without cheating them.
That is not true, Eldrazi and Taxes plays 4x TKS and even Reality Smasher sometimes and doesn't really cheat them into play unless they wait to vial up to 4 which is definitely beyond T5 so, yeah it might "cheat it" but not in terms of speed that's for sure.
TKS and Reality Smasher are good because they are insane for their mana cost anyway. The fact that Bant Eldrazi plays mana dorks allows it to cast TKS T3 quite often. The problem are the T2 plays of creatures that outvalue your opponent even when played on curve.
Eldrazi Temple does add quite a bit of consistency in the deck but at the end of the day, it is just a 4 of card. Consistency is added because it plays a very powerful 1 mana card draw and because they creatures produce value no matter when you play them. Mana dorks in this deck more or less fulfill the same role as Eldrazi Temple, they are just more fragile.
I don't think Eldrazi will vanish from the face of the earth if there is an Eldrazi Temple ban because the core of the deck is powerful in itself anyway. There will just be a different configuration. Eldrazi Tron has issues because it relies on a high risk engine without the high reward of RG Tron.
I don't think Eldrazi will vanish from the face of the earth if there is an Eldrazi Temple ban because the core of the deck is powerful in itself anyway. There will just be a different configuration. Eldrazi Tron has issues because it relies on a high risk engine without the high reward of RG Tron.
It would. Why would I play a 4 mana 4/4 with the Clique ability, when I can simply cast Vendilion Clique for 1UU at instant speed? Because I can Ancient Stirrings for it? Not a chance.
I completely disagree with this. Cavern was barely played in the format before the Eldrazi deck, and in the decks where it was played the board control elements to the control decks did just fine. Cavern is completely innocent in all this. The real culprit is Eldrazi Temple. The fact that they didn't ban both Sol Lands is baffling to me, and Bant Eldrazi could easily survive a Temple ban.
No way Eldrazi can survive a temple ban. Their power is cheating big creatures 2 turns early. Without it, they're just sitting ducks. Even the Colorless Eldrazi Tron has trouble.
Yes but don't forget that they play mana dorks as well. They can just up the number of mana dorks and reduce a part of the impact. Sure there will be no way they could T2 TKS then but I don't think that is bad. T2 TKS on the play is one of the strongest things you can do in modern.
How many creatures above 2 cmc are played in modern...
Even 3 drops are almost unplayable. Good luck casting 4-5 cmc eldrazi without cheating them.
That is not true, Eldrazi and Taxes plays 4x TKS and even Reality Smasher sometimes and doesn't really cheat them into play unless they wait to vial up to 4 which is definitely beyond T5 so, yeah it might "cheat it" but not in terms of speed that's for sure.
TKS and Reality Smasher are good because they are insane for their mana cost anyway. The fact that Bant Eldrazi plays mana dorks allows it to cast TKS T3 quite often. The problem are the T2 plays of creatures that outvalue your opponent even when played on curve.
Eldrazi Temple does add quite a bit of consistency in the deck but at the end of the day, it is just a 4 of card. Consistency is added because it plays a very powerful 1 mana card draw and because they creatures produce value no matter when you play them. Mana dorks in this deck more or less fulfill the same role as Eldrazi Temple, they are just more fragile.
I don't think Eldrazi will vanish from the face of the earth if there is an Eldrazi Temple ban because the core of the deck is powerful in itself anyway. There will just be a different configuration. Eldrazi Tron has issues because it relies on a high risk engine without the high reward of RG Tron.
ban temple and you ban the reason to play eldrazi, there are better payoffs in modern for running 8x mana dorks in a deck than a t3 tks or a t4 smasher. the fact that eldrazi gets 4 of its dorks in lands that dont have summoning sickness is why the deck is viable, lose the discount on eldrazi and you lose any reason to play the expensive eldrazi creatures
If wizards ban eldrazi temple then they'd also have to ban cards like the urzatron lands and simian spirit guide and that just wrecks fun, viable decks like mono blue tron and ad nauseam. Eldrazi is good for the format and doesnt deserve a ban and this is coming from a die hard fair control player only so take it for what you will.
And even when prepared Its still a difficult matchjp
Turns plays the midrange game better than everything else. You get alive turn 5/6 and you Basically are sure you will win
Its not Perfect, ne needs things that other U decks need.. But even right now without that Its Still in the range of a tier 1.5 deck
Will Always be tier 3 only because if you play turn you are "that guy" Lol
Even though my searing hatred for the neo-eldrazi could fuel a thousand suns and I would love nothing more than BFZ block to be retconned entirely I do not see how severely nerfing one of the only good midrange decks in the format would somehow fix Modern
If wizards ban eldrazi temple then they'd also have to ban cards like the urzatron lands and simian spirit guide
I understand why it's tempting to think this at first glance, but it couldn't be more wrong. Eldrazi Temple is the only card in the Modern format where 1 card in hand = 1 untapped land drop = 2 mana. Urza Tron gets a huge advantage, yes, but it's over 3 or more turns and requires 3 distinct cards and typically many filter or search cards in your opener to get there, often at the expense of needing to draw into the payoff cards. Simian Spirit Guide gets exiled so is only usable a single time. Eldrazi Temple is far more potent than either of those because of the lack of restrictions in the context of the Eldrazi decks. I almost said it's like Sol Ring except on second thought it's actually more powerful than Sol Ring in this context because it doesn't require 2 cards in hand and land drops can't be countered.
Except that "beating Twin" meant running simple interaction cards that could be main-decked. Stuff like discard spells, creature removal, and counterspells. Now that there is no looming deck that really requires you to pack interaction, our Tier 1 list is almost entirely fast aggro decks that seek to outrace you. Is that really MORE diverse than when our Tier 1 was made up of aggro, combo, control, ramp, and midrange?
4x Thought Scour with Snapcaster Mage and Kolaghan's Command is pretty good.
Plus, Newlamog was a nightmare to deal with. The on-cast exile trigger was often back-breaking.
The legends of Twin being this unbeatable monster get more and more exaggerated every day.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
last i checked brainstorm was nowhere near below 50%, in fact its the most played card according to goldfish
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
I don't mind that control loses to aggro, it's suppose to be that way
But that control has no chances against the #1 midrange deck (eldrazi) because all of its creature are uncounterable? that's kind of ridiculous
"Are you serious?" Chandra replied.
How does banning Cavern make more on cast triggers get printed? On cast triggers are mostly on Eldrazi so until they show up again I don't think they're going to print enough cast triggers to cause an even greater problem than exists now. And if they don't ban Cavern those cards are going to be printed anyway.
Banning Cavern would help blue decks a bit so they could actually reliably answer some creatures.
The problem with Cavern and Decay,for me, is that they exist together. They combine to make it just a little harder for blue to interact with creatures and protect low cost permanents. Answering Creatures and playing low cost permanents are two of the big cornerstones of modern and blue has obstacles they must overcome that other colors don't. Part of that is also that blue doesn't have great creature answers to begin with and Cavern just makes it worse.
Honestly i think we deal with it the same way we deal with tron, let infect scare it off then whip our bolts out and slap the infect players off their high horse. Then we of course cry as eldrazi comes back to smash us back to reality, and we have to call our toxic friends back
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Well, Mana Leak and Cryptic Command are the best answers against TKS and Reality Smasher. Cavern of Souls would prevent that instantly and would nerf Eldrazi a bit. Eldrazi can stay in that way (the mana can't be used to pay for Leak anyway...). I don't know if anything should be banned, this is just a consideration.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678Infect?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
If Blue Control decks would be able to control Eldrazi, that would be an interesting dynamic for sure. Not sure if Eldrazi can survive Leak, Snap, Leak. Not all decks should necessarily be beating Eldrazi, but each deck must have a weakness in order to sustain an interesting metagame dynamic.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678Check out the DTB section on the Source. MTG Goldfish is using online data, Source is using paper, they're very different metagames.
As for what that means for Modern, it really seems to me like Modern needs some way to get cards in the format that doesn't come from Standard.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
No way Eldrazi can survive a temple ban. Their power is cheating big creatures 2 turns early. Without it, they're just sitting ducks. Even the Colorless Eldrazi Tron has trouble.
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
It is also a "ops I win" deck
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
TKS and Reality Smasher are good because they are insane for their mana cost anyway. The fact that Bant Eldrazi plays mana dorks allows it to cast TKS T3 quite often. The problem are the T2 plays of creatures that outvalue your opponent even when played on curve.
Eldrazi Temple does add quite a bit of consistency in the deck but at the end of the day, it is just a 4 of card. Consistency is added because it plays a very powerful 1 mana card draw and because they creatures produce value no matter when you play them. Mana dorks in this deck more or less fulfill the same role as Eldrazi Temple, they are just more fragile.
I don't think Eldrazi will vanish from the face of the earth if there is an Eldrazi Temple ban because the core of the deck is powerful in itself anyway. There will just be a different configuration. Eldrazi Tron has issues because it relies on a high risk engine without the high reward of RG Tron.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
It would. Why would I play a 4 mana 4/4 with the Clique ability, when I can simply cast Vendilion Clique for 1UU at instant speed? Because I can Ancient Stirrings for it? Not a chance.
ban temple and you ban the reason to play eldrazi, there are better payoffs in modern for running 8x mana dorks in a deck than a t3 tks or a t4 smasher. the fact that eldrazi gets 4 of its dorks in lands that dont have summoning sickness is why the deck is viable, lose the discount on eldrazi and you lose any reason to play the expensive eldrazi creatures
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
People tend to forget (or completely ignore) this, but it just makes it that much easier to win with Turns when they're not prepared.
Turns plays the midrange game better than everything else. You get alive turn 5/6 and you Basically are sure you will win
Its not Perfect, ne needs things that other U decks need.. But even right now without that Its Still in the range of a tier 1.5 deck
Will Always be tier 3 only because if you play turn you are "that guy" Lol
URW PillowFort Stasis (costruction)
modern:
U Taking Turns combo
pauper:
UB Servitor Control
xenob8 : you know you are going to have a bad time when opponent starts with snow covered island
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero