I did own all of those decks, I also have Jund with DRS. I just can't find a deck that replicates the power level of previous decks that got banned. Modern just doesn't accommodate what I like to do in Magic, win an unreasonable amount of matches with a high power level deck compared to the rest of the field.
Welcome to the real world, where everyone has bad matchups. You should get used to it.
Yup, I've come to accept that I will lose to looser technical players in Modern due to variance the same way Corey Burkhart lost to Skred Red and his loose play in the top 8. I've already come to accept that fact already.
Or just accept that a meta with a 'BEST DECK' is a flawed one. Atm, no deck is the best deck, but again I could not take you serious enough. Rock - paper - scissors metas are how the game works at its best.
I want you to explain me why cant you just play Dredge, Affinity, Infect, Bant Eldrazi, or Jund if you want a really good deck. You are going to have success with either of them, if you are a good player. Losing 2/10 matchups is math. You are going to have another 2 easy matchups and it's up to you to win the remaining 6 matchups out of supposedly 10. You should accept it if you want the meta to be balanced.
So, why not 1 of those 5?
I have been playing Dredge and have been coming across many Infect players winning dice rolls against me and losing because I didn't have the one extra turn to lethal my opponents. When I started playing Affinity, I would steal game 1 very often and get Stony Silenced out of the game and not draw my backup plan to Stony Silence. When I played Infect, I got paired against many 1 mana removal spell decks and lost the die roll every time and never got a threat to stick. When I played Bant Eldrazi, my lack of interaction got me killed against fast decks. When I played Jund, I would always get paired against Tron/Scapeshift and just not pack the land hate or not fortunate enough to dodge it. Maybe I should not impulse ditch decks when I receive bad beats but that's probably something I need to work on is getting familiar with my 6 sided dice.
Sounds like you need to get better at identifying your weaknesses as a player. No strong players I have ever met would blame all of that on bad luck. That's what weak players do.
I've come to the realization after GP Dallas that Modern will never turn out the way I want it to be. WOTC is clearly happy that Modern is a "blazing fast format" and quite frankly I honestly don't think WOTC cares if the format is balanced or not. I think WOTC purposely made Modern the way it is today, simply to frustrate very competitive players to migrate over to Standard (which I have done) and of course it benefits WOTC the more people that play Standard. I've basically come to accept what Modern's goal is as a format (diverse decks), and accept the fact that it won't be a format for me where I can build one deck and crush everything since WOTC actively discourages that by taking action with the banlist on said decks.
This post is so misguided and even incoherent. The reason why Modern is getting faster and faster is because the pool is expanding and decks are just finding better and better options. You want a deck to "crush" everything yet you cannot stand a fast format and then you whine about balance. It's like you slap together all your opinions and don't even know they can contradict each other. Please think before posting. And you sensationalize variety like it's the only thing Modern has and will be defined by. In case you haven't realized, Jund, Infect, and Affinity have ruled Modern for the last several years...
In smaller events the meta seems fine. Building sideboards is almost the same as before, but I have a slight preference for anger of the gods and chalice of the void. Maybe kitchen finks too. So dredge is definitely felt, as well as overall speed going up.
Pod and twin definitely had game against the whole field, especially after sideboarding but I don't think that's a bad thing. I think players hate the feeling of auto losing to bad match-ups. Like with pod, I could search up oh idk, fulminator mage against tron to slow them down. or sin collector against combo. But todays decks don't let you do that. maybe thats what people meant in earlier posts. idk
My question is this.
Whats with the obsession that control has to lose to aggro? In my experience the point of control was to slow down the early game until it can start to take over and win. And control versus aggro have always been idealized matches due to the "can control slow it enough to take over?" aspect of the match.
There is no reason control should auto-lose to aggro.
No it shouldnt dominate everything, but Jund is moderns control deck because it has game versus everything and it can keep aggro decks down until it can grind the win.
Or am i missing something?
My question is this.
Whats with the obsession that control has to lose to aggro? In my experience the point of control was to slow down the early game until it can start to take over and win. And control versus aggro have always been idealized matches due to the "can control slow it enough to take over?" aspect of the match.
There is no reason control should auto-lose to aggro.
No it shouldnt dominate everything, but Jund is moderns control deck because it has game versus everything and it can keep aggro decks down until it can grind the win.
Or am i missing something?
Control losing to aggro is an out-dated idea. The modern control decks all feast on aggro. Control would be played even less than it is without this much aggro. Look at GP Dallas Top 8. Those decks are doing well because they keep facing aggro.
Pod and twin definitely had game against the whole field, especially after sideboarding but I don't think that's a bad thing. I think players hate the feeling of auto losing to bad match-ups. Like with pod, I could search up oh idk, fulminator mage against tron to slow them down. or sin collector against combo. But todays decks don't let you do that. maybe thats what people meant in earlier posts. idk
Honestly, I think it would be nice to have more decks that have a 50/50 game against the field. That way, players can be rewarded for their skill and play decisions within the match, rather than being gifted free wins or given insurmountable odds based solely on the pairings board and the dice roll. I would love to see a format in which you could choose from options of 50/50 decks or 60/40 decks or 70/30 decks or 90/10 decks. Players could have the option to pick high risk high reward style decks or play it safe with skill-intensive 50/50 decks. That option doesn't seem to exist in Modern any more, and the closest option (BGx Midrange) is a $2,000 deck that is still struggling against the incredibly hostile gauntlet of Tier 1 decks. It was nice when there was an option to play these kinds of decks instead of being forced into matchup lottery with whatever you choose. It was showcased at the last GP that you can do incredibly well (like 15-0 the Swiss rounds of a GP) as long as you dodge all your bad matchups. That outcome might have been very different had that particular deck faced bad matchups in multiple rounds.
Pod and twin definitely had game against the whole field, especially after sideboarding but I don't think that's a bad thing. I think players hate the feeling of auto losing to bad match-ups. Like with pod, I could search up oh idk, fulminator mage against tron to slow them down. or sin collector against combo. But todays decks don't let you do that. maybe thats what people meant in earlier posts. idk
Honestly, I think it would be nice to have more decks that have a 50/50 game against the field. That way, players can be rewarded for their skill and play decisions within the match, rather than being gifted free wins or given insurmountable odds based solely on the pairings board and the dice roll. I would love to see a format in which you could choose from options of 50/50 decks or 60/40 decks or 70/30 decks or 90/10 decks. Players could have the option to pick high risk high reward style decks or play it safe with skill-intensive 50/50 decks. That option doesn't seem to exist in Modern any more, and the closest option (BGx Midrange) is a $2,000 deck that is still struggling against the incredibly hostile gauntlet of Tier 1 decks. It was nice when there was an option to play these kinds of decks instead of being forced into matchup lottery with whatever you choose. It was showcased at the last GP that you can do incredibly well (like 15-0 the Swiss rounds of a GP) as long as you dodge all your bad matchups. That outcome might have been very different had that particular deck faced bad matchups in multiple rounds.
I've just learned to embrace Modern as it is, Wild Wild West where people die on turn 4 through interaction. The format exists for people who want anything to be able to win. It's not possible to gain a competitive edge, unless you discover the next Eldrazi deck. You're at the mercy of the pairings board, but that's fine because a majority of Modern players don't aspire to become professional through the Modern GP circuit and are just thrilled to play against a variety of decks. It's not a format where I would want to bank on making a living off of playing competitively. Modern is fine for people who aren't Spike minded which is a majority of the Modern playerbase. It's only not enjoyable for people who have to depend on a tournament for their living.
There's a very simple solution for your problem. Just stop playing modern then. Since you're so competitive and modern is tooo casual and not good enough to meet your 'competitive' needs. Plenty of standard events around for you to play. You can play your fictional 80-20 deck and everyone else can be spared from your incessant whining about modern.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
Pro players also have a lot more freedom in switching decks to whatever they like whenever they like. If there is a strong new deck or a calculated change based on the predicted metas, they can make that call with relative ease. Decks for pros are not investments that they have spent a lot of time and money putting together. They are often borrowed or supported by a sponsorship of some kind (LGS, big name team, or anything in between). Deck choice in Modern is so much more important than being the most skilled player in the room. Pros often do consistently well because most of them consistently change their decks from event to event; carefully selecting the best option. That's a difficult task for common folks when decks are around or above $1,000 and have to acquire the cards ourselves.
Just something else to think about when praising pros for consistency. Yes, many of them are masters of their craft, but deck choice is probably the most important thing in Modern, aside from variance luck.
Irrelevant. A small subset of players having access to all the top decks doesn't mean anything in terms of format health. Besides, Sisicat has already stated he has jumped between a bunch of top tier decks and failed to perform with them.
As you said though, and I agree that deck choice is very important in modern, you still need to put in the hours to practice and be able to play the deck at a high level. Whether it's the 'most' important ? Not by a long shot.
Besides, pros like BBD for example spent countless hours testing and going through different decks before finally settling on Dredge for Dallas, and was rewarded for it with a top 8. It's not right for you to downplay all the effort he put into preparation just because he can play whatever he likes.
Guys please opinions on japanese cards. Lost a 3/3 creature against Japan celestial colonade. This guy played all creatures and spells in english cards, but some cards in his manabase was japanese. I dont registrated this really ( my brain say its all fine and all english to me lets attack his empty board)...and i am sure it is a Kind of legal cheating. It is not ok, but i know legal. I Hate such people. I never forget colonade normally, but with this Tricks it can happen one time in 3 years and such people take advantage of this
If I am a customer spending premium amount of dollars, I expect a premium service. Jund falls into the category of a premium deck costing more dollars than a majority of the rest of the format. I'm not getting the desired performance ratio per dollars spent out of the Jund deck because WOTC decided to make the format more diverse.
I acually like that i can pick a deck and stick with it in modern (sans bans which I am against). I know "pros dont do that" which is fine. Let them spike, I dont care. Its often said in modern doing that is often worse because people who understand their deck will often do better in modern. Skred red guy played skred a ton before the event. Pat cox does well with zoo regardless of practice time. Chapin does well with death and taxes. Even calab dunword, guy who did spirits says in his deck tech, he played alot alot of spirits and thats why he picked it for the event.
Modern should be a home you can live at with one deck and feel fine. If you want more than one and got the cash... feel free. Right now most local metas are still fine... even during the eldrazi winter because people where like "well i like playing fae."
Not to say in the bigger picture the most cut throat enviroments are in great shape. I remember in legacys hayday, before the prices got way higher than modern is right now and most places lost support, people were saying the same thing. Honestly modern is where legacy was years ago. Does it need some balancing in the form of unbans and printings. Yeah totally.
Not to say in the bigger picture the most cut throat enviroments are in great shape. I remember in legacys hayday, before the prices got way higher than modern is right now and most places lost support, people were saying the same thing. Honestly modern is where legacy was years ago. Does it need some balancing in the form of unbans and printings. Yeah totally.
Legacy gets lots of shake ups from new printings in supplemental sets. It would be nice if cards could be introduced into Modern under a similar plan. Having to go through Standard means that all new Modern cards are subject to the downgrade in answer power and upgrade in creature power Standard has seen in New World Order.
I acually like that i can pick a deck and stick with it in modern (sans bans which I am against). I know "pros dont do that" which is fine. Let them spike, I dont care. Its often said in modern doing that is often worse because people who understand their deck will often do better in modern. Skred red guy played skred a ton before the event.
I thought he said in his interview that he built the deck the Friday before the GP?
I acually like that i can pick a deck and stick with it in modern (sans bans which I am against). I know "pros dont do that" which is fine. Let them spike, I dont care. Its often said in modern doing that is often worse because people who understand their deck will often do better in modern. Skred red guy played skred a ton before the event.
I thought he said in his interview that he built the deck the Friday before the GP?
The final version sure, but he was familiar with the archetype and new the lines and how to play against various decks in the meta.
There's a very simple solution for your problem. Just stop playing modern then. Since you're so competitive and modern is tooo casual and not good enough to meet your 'competitive' needs. Plenty of standard events around for you to play. You can play your fictional 80-20 deck and everyone else can be spared from your incessant whining about modern.
I think some people just stick around because of all the attention they get due to their constant complaining.
Public Mod Note
(Lantern):
Infracted for Trolling ~Lantern
Watched Bant Eldrazi ROFLStomp pretty much everything last night. Goodness that deck is good.
Gonna just start packing 3x Blood Moon in all my sideboards I think...
The player was just lucky. The deck has some insanely powerful hands but sometimes there hands are terrible more so than most decks in the format. Also like any deck that is remotely fast just destroys it. Eldrazi is good do not get me wrong but all it is excelling at is being a bigger more aggressive jund with more polarized matchups. Any deck that is remotely competitive looks ridiculous when it runs hot.
I've finally come to an understanding as to why I feel like modern leaves me with such bad feelings. I was watching SCG for a couple rounds today and saw some pretty cool decks. Gw tron, WR prison, Abzan coco with rallies and kiki chord were all pretty refreshing to watch. I thought, you know, maybe modern is doing a good job of self adjusting lately. But then Jadine Klomparens used 9 cards to kill her opponent on turn 3 against a ramp deck who's only interaction was a 3 mana sorcery speed boardwipe that's almost free for infect to play around. Had he lived, she'd have likely die the next turn. Was this my problem? Nope. My problem was the return to the coverage desk where all we heard was "BAN BAN BAN, BAN BECOME IMMENSE; WOW SO OP; LOOK AT THAT TURN 3 KILL'.
Watching Modern tournaments just causes me such anxiety. If anything happens on camera, we're either in for a price spike or a ban conversation. There's no good result. Watching a tournament and hoping for something exciting to happen is asking for a new 20,30 or 50 dollar card (scrying sheets spike after a skred GP win). Otherwise if we're sticking with the same old stuff, we get the "probably should be banned" conversation after the match. It completely sucks out all the enjoyment I have in watching a tournament because I'll either end up with a meta shift I can't afford to jump on or I'm stressed I'll lose one of my remaining modern decks to casters hating the format and using bans to drum up twitch conversations on their incredibly slow moving twitch chats since magic is barely popular enough on stream to get coverage in the first place.
The ever growing banlist as the solution to all just leads every conversation about a potential problem to "well, ban it" as the solution. Dredge puts what, two copies in the top 64 last weekend or something, with one losing in the top 8 and we're talking about bans on Monday on content websites? Infect kills people with a pump spell because people are incentivized to race and tap out, so they're no longer trying to interact and the solution is ban it instead of figuring out why the format is where it is (people not interacting). Like if you keep banning away decks out of modern, something else is going to pop up and take its place and people will be screaming again.
In the rare event something new shakes up a tournament, we end up with reckless speculators preventing the community from actually getting in on the deck early and figuring out if it's actually good.
TL;DR: Watching Modern tournaments causes me anxiety because after the tournament I feel like I always end up with ban anxiety or spike anxiety. This ruins the format for me.
Infect kills people with a pump spell because people are incentivized to race and tap out, so they're no longer trying to interact and the solution is ban it instead of figuring out why the format is where it is (people not interacting). Like if you keep banning away decks out of modern, something else is going to pop up and take its place and people will be screaming again.
If only we had some kind of deck that both incentivized more interaction and discouraged tapping out for racing kills. I think a deck like that could really help the format.
Infect kills people with a pump spell because people are incentivized to race and tap out, so they're no longer trying to interact and the solution is ban it instead of figuring out why the format is where it is (people not interacting). Like if you keep banning away decks out of modern, something else is going to pop up and take its place and people will be screaming again.
If only we had some kind of deck that both incentivized more interaction and discouraged tapping out for racing kills. I think a deck like that could really help the format.
Infect kills people with a pump spell because people are incentivized to race and tap out, so they're no longer trying to interact and the solution is ban it instead of figuring out why the format is where it is (people not interacting). Like if you keep banning away decks out of modern, something else is going to pop up and take its place and people will be screaming again.
If only we had some kind of deck that both incentivized more interaction and discouraged tapping out for racing kills. I think a deck like that could really help the format.
Doesn't Infect do a lot of those things?
Unless they play a Blighted Agent, I can very easily tap out to play a creature against Infect. None of their creatures have haste and the only way they usually profit from the block is to waste a pump spell. Promotes gameplan of damage racing with creatures if I want to completely ignore interaction cards.
Sounds like you need to get better at identifying your weaknesses as a player. No strong players I have ever met would blame all of that on bad luck. That's what weak players do.
This post is so misguided and even incoherent. The reason why Modern is getting faster and faster is because the pool is expanding and decks are just finding better and better options. You want a deck to "crush" everything yet you cannot stand a fast format and then you whine about balance. It's like you slap together all your opinions and don't even know they can contradict each other. Please think before posting. And you sensationalize variety like it's the only thing Modern has and will be defined by. In case you haven't realized, Jund, Infect, and Affinity have ruled Modern for the last several years...
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
A piece will get banned and owners of said decks will whine and cry.
Whats with the obsession that control has to lose to aggro? In my experience the point of control was to slow down the early game until it can start to take over and win. And control versus aggro have always been idealized matches due to the "can control slow it enough to take over?" aspect of the match.
There is no reason control should auto-lose to aggro.
No it shouldnt dominate everything, but Jund is moderns control deck because it has game versus everything and it can keep aggro decks down until it can grind the win.
Or am i missing something?
Control losing to aggro is an out-dated idea. The modern control decks all feast on aggro. Control would be played even less than it is without this much aggro. Look at GP Dallas Top 8. Those decks are doing well because they keep facing aggro.
Honestly, I think it would be nice to have more decks that have a 50/50 game against the field. That way, players can be rewarded for their skill and play decisions within the match, rather than being gifted free wins or given insurmountable odds based solely on the pairings board and the dice roll. I would love to see a format in which you could choose from options of 50/50 decks or 60/40 decks or 70/30 decks or 90/10 decks. Players could have the option to pick high risk high reward style decks or play it safe with skill-intensive 50/50 decks. That option doesn't seem to exist in Modern any more, and the closest option (BGx Midrange) is a $2,000 deck that is still struggling against the incredibly hostile gauntlet of Tier 1 decks. It was nice when there was an option to play these kinds of decks instead of being forced into matchup lottery with whatever you choose. It was showcased at the last GP that you can do incredibly well (like 15-0 the Swiss rounds of a GP) as long as you dodge all your bad matchups. That outcome might have been very different had that particular deck faced bad matchups in multiple rounds.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I've just learned to embrace Modern as it is, Wild Wild West where people die on turn 4 through interaction. The format exists for people who want anything to be able to win. It's not possible to gain a competitive edge, unless you discover the next Eldrazi deck. You're at the mercy of the pairings board, but that's fine because a majority of Modern players don't aspire to become professional through the Modern GP circuit and are just thrilled to play against a variety of decks. It's not a format where I would want to bank on making a living off of playing competitively. Modern is fine for people who aren't Spike minded which is a majority of the Modern playerbase. It's only not enjoyable for people who have to depend on a tournament for their living.
Just something else to think about when praising pros for consistency. Yes, many of them are masters of their craft, but deck choice is probably the most important thing in Modern, aside from variance luck.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
As you said though, and I agree that deck choice is very important in modern, you still need to put in the hours to practice and be able to play the deck at a high level. Whether it's the 'most' important ? Not by a long shot.
Besides, pros like BBD for example spent countless hours testing and going through different decks before finally settling on Dredge for Dallas, and was rewarded for it with a top 8. It's not right for you to downplay all the effort he put into preparation just because he can play whatever he likes.
Modern should be a home you can live at with one deck and feel fine. If you want more than one and got the cash... feel free. Right now most local metas are still fine... even during the eldrazi winter because people where like "well i like playing fae."
Not to say in the bigger picture the most cut throat enviroments are in great shape. I remember in legacys hayday, before the prices got way higher than modern is right now and most places lost support, people were saying the same thing. Honestly modern is where legacy was years ago. Does it need some balancing in the form of unbans and printings. Yeah totally.
RGTron
UGInfect
URStorm
WUBRAd Nauseam
BRGrishoalbrand
URGScapeshift
WBGAbzan Company
WUBRGAmulet Titan
BRGLiving End
WGBogles
Legacy gets lots of shake ups from new printings in supplemental sets. It would be nice if cards could be introduced into Modern under a similar plan. Having to go through Standard means that all new Modern cards are subject to the downgrade in answer power and upgrade in creature power Standard has seen in New World Order.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Gonna just start packing 3x Blood Moon in all my sideboards I think...
I thought he said in his interview that he built the deck the Friday before the GP?
The final version sure, but he was familiar with the archetype and new the lines and how to play against various decks in the meta.
The player was just lucky. The deck has some insanely powerful hands but sometimes there hands are terrible more so than most decks in the format. Also like any deck that is remotely fast just destroys it. Eldrazi is good do not get me wrong but all it is excelling at is being a bigger more aggressive jund with more polarized matchups. Any deck that is remotely competitive looks ridiculous when it runs hot.
Watching Modern tournaments just causes me such anxiety. If anything happens on camera, we're either in for a price spike or a ban conversation. There's no good result. Watching a tournament and hoping for something exciting to happen is asking for a new 20,30 or 50 dollar card (scrying sheets spike after a skred GP win). Otherwise if we're sticking with the same old stuff, we get the "probably should be banned" conversation after the match. It completely sucks out all the enjoyment I have in watching a tournament because I'll either end up with a meta shift I can't afford to jump on or I'm stressed I'll lose one of my remaining modern decks to casters hating the format and using bans to drum up twitch conversations on their incredibly slow moving twitch chats since magic is barely popular enough on stream to get coverage in the first place.
The ever growing banlist as the solution to all just leads every conversation about a potential problem to "well, ban it" as the solution. Dredge puts what, two copies in the top 64 last weekend or something, with one losing in the top 8 and we're talking about bans on Monday on content websites? Infect kills people with a pump spell because people are incentivized to race and tap out, so they're no longer trying to interact and the solution is ban it instead of figuring out why the format is where it is (people not interacting). Like if you keep banning away decks out of modern, something else is going to pop up and take its place and people will be screaming again.
In the rare event something new shakes up a tournament, we end up with reckless speculators preventing the community from actually getting in on the deck early and figuring out if it's actually good.
TL;DR: Watching Modern tournaments causes me anxiety because after the tournament I feel like I always end up with ban anxiety or spike anxiety. This ruins the format for me.
If only we had some kind of deck that both incentivized more interaction and discouraged tapping out for racing kills. I think a deck like that could really help the format.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Doesn't Infect do a lot of those things?
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
Unless they play a Blighted Agent, I can very easily tap out to play a creature against Infect. None of their creatures have haste and the only way they usually profit from the block is to waste a pump spell. Promotes gameplan of damage racing with creatures if I want to completely ignore interaction cards.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)