Didn't affinity just have a poor preformance at the SCGs Open? Does that not warrent a small break in the ban talk for the deck?
The meta looks great right now. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the meta shifts to combat Company. Do we see a return to main deck Anger of the Gods in Jund?
I dont know why theres this conception of fair/unfair Magic.
I mean, fast mana exists from the beggining (Moxes anyone?). Why is fast mana unfair? Because nowadays Standard is going turn 1 one-drop, turn 2 two-drop, etc,etc?.
Please someone explain me where this thoughts began?.
PS: This is not a post defending Mox opal, nor SSG, nor any fast mana.
Just a thought from seeing so much people cry about fast mana.
Affinity can kill you on turn 3 with Mox Opal(s) if you don't have the immediate answer. I know you want to say that Lightning Bolt breaks that up, but honestly Lightning Bolt on Goblin Electromancer in response to a spell usually breaks the turn 3 up as well.
Maybe you were implying this in your post, but in case you weren't, this is purely theoretical. In practice, Affinity's T3 win-rate is significantly lower than that of Bloom and Song Storm. It is also at least as low as Infect's and probably much lower. Again, this is from actual games, not theorycrafted scenarios and goldfishes. Based on this, Affinity will never be banned under the T4 rule. The results just aren't there.
This is the reason that I brought up Affinity. In the beginning of Modern, Affinity was Tier 1. I still have good memories of metagaming my decks toward Affinity, Jund, and Twin in that order. When Ajundi was the deck, Affinity was pretty close to Tier 1. Before Birthing Pod and Treasure Cruise got banned, Affinity was Tier 1. During Eldrazi, Affinity was Tier 1. It was Tier 1 when people were crying about losing to Summer Bloom and Splinter Twin. It was Tier 1 when some people believed that Grishoalbrand should be banned. It is the only deck that has remained Tier 1 ever since the inception of Modern and a big part of this is 2 mana on turn 1 and 3+ mana on turn 2.
Before the PT changes, I would agree that a longstanding Tier 1 deck might get hit with a ban just to shake up its status. After the Pro Tour change, this seems much less likely. We'll have to see if this holds, but going forward, I expect Tier 1 status alone will no longer be enough to get a deck banned like it did for Twin. Shakeup bans should never happen again, which means the only way Affinity gets banned is if it has T8 and metagame shares comparable to, or higher than, Twin's. This seems very unlikely because it has never happened once in previous years and it doesn't look like it's going to happen this year either.
In practice, Affinity's T3 win-rate is significantly lower than that of Bloom
This is not true. Not true at all. They are roughly the same. There is a big difference though. Affinity is easily interactable(Bolt, Clasm, Kolaghan's, even Gut Shot ,etc etc), when Titan or Hive Mind was GG.
I am not defending my Bloom pet deck, just stating the bit of my experience from the deck.
I'm only talking about actual games, not goldfishing. All of my posts have disclaimed that numerous times. I don't care about their goldfish win-rates and Wizards doesn't either. If Affinity isn't winning pre-T4 in actual games because of interaction, that still means it's T3 win-rate is significantly lower than that of Bloom, which was winning a lot pre-T4.
Didn't affinity just have a poor preformance at the SCGs Open? Does that not warrent a small break in the ban talk for the deck?
The meta looks great right now. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the meta shifts to combat Company. Do we see a return to main deck Anger of the Gods in Jund?
It did do poorly there. But I wonder if anyone looked at the SCG Modern States' stats. I was surprised as to how many times an Affinity that was in the top 8 WON States (1st place). I am not advocating a ban of Affinity. But I also am not going to say that I agree with every single other ban.
I would say that for people feeling badly that Affinity hasn't performed, click on the first few States' results on SCG.com under Modern deck lists.
@ktkenshinx - I hope that the article holds water because I personally look forward to a non-ban ideology and the most recent B&R list could be the start of something wonderful.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
So what is the general consensus on this? Is Mox Opal safe or not?
since is a fast mana card, its never safe on the long run.
right now the card is safe, but simian spirit ground, mox opal and other fast mana is never ever safe.
Brian DeMars just put up an article on CFB talking about how CoCo would eventually have to be banned. Really? We finally have a somewhat healthy meta back, do we really have to be talking about banning the new DTB?
This is the kind of thing I was worried about after the Twin banning. Now it seems like the best deck will always have to be on the chopping block, even if it is not oppressive whatsoever and has perfectly reasonable meta %s. Somewhat frustrating.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
Brian DeMars just put up an article on CFB talking about how CoCo would eventually have to be banned. Really? We finally have a somewhat healthy meta back, do we really have to be talking about banning the new DTB?
This is the kind of thing I was worried about after the Twin banning. Now it seems like the best deck will always have to be on the chopping block, even if it is not oppressive whatsoever and has perfectly reasonable meta %s. Somewhat frustrating.
Thanks for the heads-up. Going to drop some knowledge in his comment section. His Modern articles are often so sensationalistic and under-researched. Very frustrating.
Brian DeMars is kind like those Tablod magazines you pick up and read while waiting in the line for grocery shopping. It's fun to read, but it's trashy and you don't take any of it seriously
Brian DeMars is kind like those Tablod magazines you pick up and read while waiting in the line for grocery shopping. It's fun to read, but it's trashy and you don't take any of it seriously
I enjoy the guy, but not for quality articles
I guess I don't even see what his point is in writing the article - "Now I'm not saying it should be banned, but there are some similarities between Splinter Twin and Coco." Real top shelf level analysis there, Brian.
Meta's looking pretty healthy to me, Company isn't even the most played deck in the format, it's not pulling out the turn 3 win
I don't know about you guys, but Abzan Company is so painful to watch on camera. I remember being bored to death watching it win against the Eldrazi decks too. It's a good deck, just so oppressively dull to watch, sitting behind walls and doing nothing until casting EOT Chord/Company for a silver bullet. Michael Majors Grixis v Podwai's Living End game 1 was hands down the best game of the entire tournament.
Besides RG Tron, what are Companys bad matchups?
Also, if Jund and Company start reaching these shares, RG Tron is going to come back swinging into tier 1.5
Meta's looking pretty healthy to me, Company isn't even the most played deck in the format, it's not pulling out the turn 3 win
I don't know about you guys, but Abzan Company is so painful to watch on camera. I remember being bored to death watching it win against the Eldrazi decks too. It's a good deck, just so oppressively dull to watch, sitting behind walls and doing nothing until casting EOT Chord/Company for a silver bullet. Michael Majors Grixis v Podwai's Living End game 1 was hands down the best game of the entire tournament.
Besides RG Tron, what are Companys bad matchups?
Also, if Jund and Company start reaching these shares, RG Tron is going to come back swinging into tier 1.5
Its bad matchups are mostly combo decks because it runs little interaction, the problem is that most of them have been banned.
Meta's looking pretty healthy to me, Company isn't even the most played deck in the format, it's not pulling out the turn 3 win
I don't know about you guys, but Abzan Company is so painful to watch on camera. I remember being bored to death watching it win against the Eldrazi decks too. It's a good deck, just so oppressively dull to watch, sitting behind walls and doing nothing until casting EOT Chord/Company for a silver bullet. Michael Majors Grixis v Podwai's Living End game 1 was hands down the best game of the entire tournament.
Besides RG Tron, what are Companys bad matchups?
Also, if Jund and Company start reaching these shares, RG Tron is going to come back swinging into tier 1.5
Its bad matchups are mostly combo decks because it runs little interaction, the problem is that most of them have been banned.
Merfolk isn't very good and tron is basically unwinnable.
Meta's looking pretty healthy to me, Company isn't even the most played deck in the format, it's not pulling out the turn 3 win
I don't know about you guys, but Abzan Company is so painful to watch on camera. I remember being bored to death watching it win against the Eldrazi decks too. It's a good deck, just so oppressively dull to watch, sitting behind walls and doing nothing until casting EOT Chord/Company for a silver bullet. Michael Majors Grixis v Podwai's Living End game 1 was hands down the best game of the entire tournament.
Besides RG Tron, what are Companys bad matchups?
Also, if Jund and Company start reaching these shares, RG Tron is going to come back swinging into tier 1.5
This post is hilarious.
Tron scapeshift living end grishoalbrand are basically unbeatable as the other combos are while Jund is a hard one and Elves is the really disgusting one.
Control matchups are slightly favourable pre board but anger of the gods can totally annihilate you if they decide to run it as well as dispels.
Cards like bob Olivia etc are as well.
Cage kozileks return torpor orb etc are too.
Kiki chord is a pretty unbeatable matchup also.
This deck being dull is a joke to say.
It's the most entertainijg deck to watch for me and the mirror match was a totally joy!
I was genuinely asking what the bad matchups were, not claiming that outside of RG Tron, it has no bad match-ups
The deck has some big hate cards, like Anger, Torbor Orb, Cage. I'm glad to hear it has a rough time against combo decks, that alone keeps it from ever being oppressively broken good. If it folds to a fairly common archetype, I'm pretty satisfied with that
I'm glad you find the deck a joy, I find it so boring to watch, it just walls off and combo's, or walls off and uses Gavony Township
While I like Brian DeMars and enjoy reading his articles and also he's a great player I wouldn't take his Modern articles too seriously, perhaps even he isn't serious about this one. Abzan CoCo is good deck but not ban worthy. It's not unbeatable beast, there are plenty of decks and tools that beats it. Like already mentioned GR Tron, Living End, Jund, Grishoalbrand and Scapeshift all have good game against it.
Add UWR Control to the equation. If only people considered playing that....
Meta's looking pretty healthy to me, Company isn't even the most played deck in the format, it's not pulling out the turn 3 win
I don't know about you guys, but Abzan Company is so painful to watch on camera. I remember being bored to death watching it win against the Eldrazi decks too. It's a good deck, just so oppressively dull to watch, sitting behind walls and doing nothing until casting EOT Chord/Company for a silver bullet. Michael Majors Grixis v Podwai's Living End game 1 was hands down the best game of the entire tournament.
Besides RG Tron, what are Companys bad matchups?
Also, if Jund and Company start reaching these shares, RG Tron is going to come back swinging into tier 1.5
This post is hilarious.
Tron scapeshift living end grishoalbrand are basically unbeatable as the other combos are while Jund is a hard one and Elves is the really disgusting one.
Control matchups are slightly favourable pre board but anger of the gods can totally annihilate you if they decide to run it as well as dispels.
Cards like bob Olivia etc are as well.
Cage kozileks return torpor orb etc are too.
Kiki chord is a pretty unbeatable matchup also.
This deck being dull is a joke to say.
It's the most entertainijg deck to watch for me and the mirror match was a totally joy!
I was genuinely asking what the bad matchups were, not claiming that outside of RG Tron, it has no bad match-ups
The deck has some big hate cards, like Anger, Torbor Orb, Cage. I'm glad to hear it has a rough time against combo decks, that alone keeps it from ever being oppressively broken good. If it folds to a fairly common archetype, I'm pretty satisfied with that
I'm glad you find the deck a joy, I find it so boring to watch, it just walls off and combo's, or walls off and uses Gavony Township
Agreed! Birthing pod, while more powerful, was more enjoyable to watch on screen (The non-rhino versions, at least).
Brian DeMars just put up an article on CFB talking about how CoCo would eventually have to be banned. Really? We finally have a somewhat healthy meta back, do we really have to be talking about banning the new DTB?
This is the kind of thing I was worried about after the Twin banning. Now it seems like the best deck will always have to be on the chopping block, even if it is not oppressive whatsoever and has perfectly reasonable meta %s. Somewhat frustrating.
Thanks for the heads-up. Going to drop some knowledge in his comment section. His Modern articles are often so sensationalistic and under-researched. Very frustrating.
On an unrelated note, is there going to be a metagame article on Nexus soon? Lots of data to chew on between the banlist update and now, and I was actually planning on using the data to inform my choice of deck for GP LA in 3 weeks.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
Brian DeMars just put up an article on CFB talking about how CoCo would eventually have to be banned. Really? We finally have a somewhat healthy meta back, do we really have to be talking about banning the new DTB?
This is the kind of thing I was worried about after the Twin banning. Now it seems like the best deck will always have to be on the chopping block, even if it is not oppressive whatsoever and has perfectly reasonable meta %s. Somewhat frustrating.
Thanks for the heads-up. Going to drop some knowledge in his comment section. His Modern articles are often so sensationalistic and under-researched. Very frustrating.
On an unrelated note, is there going to be a metagame article on Nexus soon? Lots of data to chew on between the banlist update and now, and I was actually planning on using the data to inform my choice of deck for GP LA in 3 weeks.
Tomorrow! Lots of great stuff. Excited to present it!
I kind of want to build kiki-chord or abzan company, the decks look like the closest to pod that I can get in modern now. The question is, how safe do ya'll think they are from the banhammer? I really don't want to get a third deck banned.
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Legacy
Death and Taxes Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
I kind of want to build kiki-chord or abzan company, the decks look like the closest to pod that I can get in modern now. The question is, how safe do ya'll think they are from the banhammer? I really don't want to get a third deck banned.
Very safe. Seriously. Nothing is getting banned barring an unprecedented breakout performance for a sustained period of time.
I kind of want to build kiki-chord or abzan company, the decks look like the closest to pod that I can get in modern now. The question is, how safe do ya'll think they are from the banhammer? I really don't want to get a third deck banned.
If Wizards listens to some of the posters on here, they'll ban it because it does something other than hardcast creatures and run sorcery speed removal, which means it's totes unfair.
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The meta looks great right now. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the meta shifts to combat Company. Do we see a return to main deck Anger of the Gods in Jund?
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I mean, fast mana exists from the beggining (Moxes anyone?). Why is fast mana unfair? Because nowadays Standard is going turn 1 one-drop, turn 2 two-drop, etc,etc?.
Please someone explain me where this thoughts began?.
PS: This is not a post defending Mox opal, nor SSG, nor any fast mana.
Just a thought from seeing so much people cry about fast mana.
Maybe you were implying this in your post, but in case you weren't, this is purely theoretical. In practice, Affinity's T3 win-rate is significantly lower than that of Bloom and Song Storm. It is also at least as low as Infect's and probably much lower. Again, this is from actual games, not theorycrafted scenarios and goldfishes. Based on this, Affinity will never be banned under the T4 rule. The results just aren't there.
Before the PT changes, I would agree that a longstanding Tier 1 deck might get hit with a ban just to shake up its status. After the Pro Tour change, this seems much less likely. We'll have to see if this holds, but going forward, I expect Tier 1 status alone will no longer be enough to get a deck banned like it did for Twin. Shakeup bans should never happen again, which means the only way Affinity gets banned is if it has T8 and metagame shares comparable to, or higher than, Twin's. This seems very unlikely because it has never happened once in previous years and it doesn't look like it's going to happen this year either.
I'm only talking about actual games, not goldfishing. All of my posts have disclaimed that numerous times. I don't care about their goldfish win-rates and Wizards doesn't either. If Affinity isn't winning pre-T4 in actual games because of interaction, that still means it's T3 win-rate is significantly lower than that of Bloom, which was winning a lot pre-T4.
It did do poorly there. But I wonder if anyone looked at the SCG Modern States' stats. I was surprised as to how many times an Affinity that was in the top 8 WON States (1st place). I am not advocating a ban of Affinity. But I also am not going to say that I agree with every single other ban.
I would say that for people feeling badly that Affinity hasn't performed, click on the first few States' results on SCG.com under Modern deck lists.
@ktkenshinx - I hope that the article holds water because I personally look forward to a non-ban ideology and the most recent B&R list could be the start of something wonderful.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Safe. But it overperformed last weekend, so we need to keep an eye on it.
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678since is a fast mana card, its never safe on the long run.
right now the card is safe, but simian spirit ground, mox opal and other fast mana is never ever safe.
Totally safe. People are just talking about it because they have nothing better to discuss in such an open and healthy format.
This is the kind of thing I was worried about after the Twin banning. Now it seems like the best deck will always have to be on the chopping block, even if it is not oppressive whatsoever and has perfectly reasonable meta %s. Somewhat frustrating.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
Thanks for the heads-up. Going to drop some knowledge in his comment section. His Modern articles are often so sensationalistic and under-researched. Very frustrating.
I enjoy the guy, but not for quality articles
I guess I don't even see what his point is in writing the article - "Now I'm not saying it should be banned, but there are some similarities between Splinter Twin and Coco." Real top shelf level analysis there, Brian.
I don't know about you guys, but Abzan Company is so painful to watch on camera. I remember being bored to death watching it win against the Eldrazi decks too. It's a good deck, just so oppressively dull to watch, sitting behind walls and doing nothing until casting EOT Chord/Company for a silver bullet. Michael Majors Grixis v Podwai's Living End game 1 was hands down the best game of the entire tournament.
Besides RG Tron, what are Companys bad matchups?
Also, if Jund and Company start reaching these shares, RG Tron is going to come back swinging into tier 1.5
Its bad matchups are mostly combo decks because it runs little interaction, the problem is that most of them have been banned.
Merfolk isn't very good and tron is basically unwinnable.
I was genuinely asking what the bad matchups were, not claiming that outside of RG Tron, it has no bad match-ups
The deck has some big hate cards, like Anger, Torbor Orb, Cage. I'm glad to hear it has a rough time against combo decks, that alone keeps it from ever being oppressively broken good. If it folds to a fairly common archetype, I'm pretty satisfied with that
I'm glad you find the deck a joy, I find it so boring to watch, it just walls off and combo's, or walls off and uses Gavony Township
Add UWR Control to the equation. If only people considered playing that....
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678Agreed! Birthing pod, while more powerful, was more enjoyable to watch on screen (The non-rhino versions, at least).
DECKS:
UB Faeries [Midrange/Tempo]
RWUGB Affinity[Aggro]
FAERIES TOO STRONK!!!1111
- Fae Prophecy, 201
5678On an unrelated note, is there going to be a metagame article on Nexus soon? Lots of data to chew on between the banlist update and now, and I was actually planning on using the data to inform my choice of deck for GP LA in 3 weeks.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
Tomorrow! Lots of great stuff. Excited to present it!
Death and Taxes
Pauper
UB Teachings
Tortured Existence
Murasa Tron
Modern
Pod (RIP)
Bloom(RIP)
Merfolk
Very safe. Seriously. Nothing is getting banned barring an unprecedented breakout performance for a sustained period of time.
If Wizards listens to some of the posters on here, they'll ban it because it does something other than hardcast creatures and run sorcery speed removal, which means it's totes unfair.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!