Give it a rest, people gave you perfectly viable and likely reasons why Eye's getting banned
I'm not surprised it will get banned, but it would be a mistake to base it on (a) tournament evidence of an unadapted meta (b) massively show an unwillingness to try and beat Eldrazi purely because you think it's too strong and you protest against the format.
Most of us agree with you. I am going to adjust and play the meta and just see how it goes. If folks come up with an answer great, if it's too strong, I am prepared (as is WOTC most likely) to address it with bans.
Give it a rest, people gave you perfectly viable and likely reasons why Eye's getting banned
I'm not surprised it will get banned, but it would be a mistake to base it on (a) tournament evidence of an unadapted meta (b) massively show an unwillingness to try and beat Eldrazi purely because you think it's too strong and you protest against the format.
I agree with you, too, WOTC emergency banning the deck would set for an extremely dangerous and detrimental precedence
I think it's insane that some people are calling Mimic the real problem. The card is clearly less good than another famous 2 drop, namely Tarmogoyf. It's the fact that it comes down for free that is the problem. Eye of Ugin needs to go.
Exactly. Mimic, neither TKS or Reality Smasher aren't the problem but fast mana that enables to play them so fast are the problem (Eye of Ugin). Reality Smasher is good but it's big difference if it hits the battlefield on turn 2 or on turn 5, same goes to TKS - definitely a good card in any case but turn 4 TKS is much less problematic than turn 2 TKS is. There's no point in banning Mimic as some people want but if the ban happens the only reasonable choice is Eye of Ugin (possibly along with Eldrazi Temple).
The problem is that you need fast mana to play the larger eldrazi in the set like Ulamog or Kozilek. Otherwise they come out far too late without some kind of ridiculous ramping.
Why should anyone care if big Eldrazi aren't viable? There are hundreds of fringe archetypes that will never be competitive, why are Eldrazi suddenly in need of defending?
I think it's insane that some people are calling Mimic the real problem. The card is clearly less good than another famous 2 drop, namely Tarmogoyf. It's the fact that it comes down for free that is the problem. Eye of Ugin needs to go.
Exactly. Mimic, neither TKS or Reality Smasher aren't the problem but fast mana that enables to play them so fast are the problem (Eye of Ugin). Reality Smasher is good but it's big difference if it hits the battlefield on turn 2 or on turn 5, same goes to TKS - definitely a good card in any case but turn 4 TKS is much less problematic than turn 2 TKS is. There's no point in banning Mimic as some people want but if the ban happens the only reasonable choice is Eye of Ugin (possibly along with Eldrazi Temple).
The problem is that you need fast mana to play the larger eldrazi in the set like Ulamog or Kozilek. Otherwise they come out far too late without some kind of ridiculous ramping.
Why should anyone care if big Eldrazi aren't viable? There are hundreds of fringe archetypes that will never be competitive, why are Eldrazi suddenly in need of defending?
Because being able to play something at that size can be the payoff of an entire deck and be a satisfying conclusion to a game. It feels great to resolve an Ulamog in a modern environment that normally favors nothing but mid-range, control, or rush to the face style decks. That is why it is worth defending big creature decks.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Lands that produce more than 1 mana cause problems. Look at affinity and the artifact lands. The artifact lands were banned from the beginning. Cloudpost? Banned. The Urzatron lands have been able to avoid the ban hammer because you need all three in play before things get crazy. The Eldrazi issue is no different than the artifact lands and cloudpost. One or both of the Eldrazi lands are going to get the ban sooner or later.
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My Modern decks: Death and Taxes, Hatebears, Well Oiled Machine, Merfolk, Nyx Wave, Soul Sisters, Stompy, Matyr Proc, Naya Zoo, Robots (I refuse to call it affinity!), Bogles, Kiki Chord
I think it's insane that some people are calling Mimic the real problem. The card is clearly less good than another famous 2 drop, namely Tarmogoyf. It's the fact that it comes down for free that is the problem. Eye of Ugin needs to go.
Exactly. Mimic, neither TKS or Reality Smasher aren't the problem but fast mana that enables to play them so fast are the problem (Eye of Ugin). Reality Smasher is good but it's big difference if it hits the battlefield on turn 2 or on turn 5, same goes to TKS - definitely a good card in any case but turn 4 TKS is much less problematic than turn 2 TKS is. There's no point in banning Mimic as some people want but if the ban happens the only reasonable choice is Eye of Ugin (possibly along with Eldrazi Temple).
The problem is that you need fast mana to play the larger eldrazi in the set like Ulamog or Kozilek. Otherwise they come out far too late without some kind of ridiculous ramping.
Why should anyone care if big Eldrazi aren't viable? There are hundreds of fringe archetypes that will never be competitive, why are Eldrazi suddenly in need of defending?
Because being able to play something at that size can be the payoff of an entire deck and be a satisfying conclusion to a game. It feels great to resolve an Ulamog in a modern environment that normally favors nothing but mid-range, control, or rush to the face style decks. That is why it is worth defending big creature decks.
If playing modern were about feeling good, then decks like Ad Nauseam, Grishoalbrand, Storm, Lantern, and all the other degenerate nonsense wouldn't exist. It's just a shame that without Twin now, most of these are considered Tier 2 or better, rather than fringe garbage. Modern no longer has anything to do with midrange or control. It has hyper aggro, combo, and that's about it. Banning Twin brought us the Affinity/Infect/Burn hyper aggro T1 with degenerate combo T2. Then Oath of the Gatewatch brought in Eldrazi to simply relegate everything down a notch and establish itself as Tier 0. This is no place for feeling good or having fun, and it's going to be a LOOONG time until the dust settles and the format is anywhere near as diverse as it was three months ago.
I think it's insane that some people are calling Mimic the real problem. The card is clearly less good than another famous 2 drop, namely Tarmogoyf. It's the fact that it comes down for free that is the problem. Eye of Ugin needs to go.
Exactly. Mimic, neither TKS or Reality Smasher aren't the problem but fast mana that enables to play them so fast are the problem (Eye of Ugin). Reality Smasher is good but it's big difference if it hits the battlefield on turn 2 or on turn 5, same goes to TKS - definitely a good card in any case but turn 4 TKS is much less problematic than turn 2 TKS is. There's no point in banning Mimic as some people want but if the ban happens the only reasonable choice is Eye of Ugin (possibly along with Eldrazi Temple).
The problem is that you need fast mana to play the larger eldrazi in the set like Ulamog or Kozilek. Otherwise they come out far too late without some kind of ridiculous ramping.
Why should anyone care if big Eldrazi aren't viable? There are hundreds of fringe archetypes that will never be competitive, why are Eldrazi suddenly in need of defending?
Because being able to play something at that size can be the payoff of an entire deck and be a satisfying conclusion to a game. It feels great to resolve an Ulamog in a modern environment that normally favors nothing but mid-range, control, or rush to the face style decks. That is why it is worth defending big creature decks.
Ok fair enough, I'm not knocking your preferences or what you find fun or satisfying. What I'm saying is what you want to use the lands for and what's actually making them problematic are two different things, and further (and unfortunately) the fact that some minor percentage of people want to use the lands to do fair things like reduce a 10CMC creature to 8CMC won't be considered when they make their ban. That's like me saying all I want to do to in my Amulet Bloom deck is ramp up to as many 2/2 bears as possible in my opening turn because I found it fun. That's irrelevant when other people understand how to maximize its application and get a Primeval Titan into play T2 through a Remand on the draw.
It's possible to make any number of banned cards seem innocuous by saying "I'm only trying to do this cool thing, not break it", but unfortunately the people "Just doing cool things" are in the minority, and most people are just trying to replicate the lists that destroyed PTOGW and make playing fair magic a distinct impossibility.
Big creature decks aren't an issue, if the costs they pay to play the creatures are scaled to the size of the creatures. When a pair of lands can make smaller creatures unfair or heavily under-costed, that's a problem. When something like a T2 TKS is possible, which is a functional Clique except it has +1/+3 and comes down a turn earlier, that's a problem. The same thing goes for an effective 3CMC Thundermaw Hellkite in Reality Smasher. It's also problematic because the Eldrazi ignore the color pie, TKS is essentially a black/blue effect card, while Smasher is effectively a red/green/blue card. It's patently absurd when colorless creatures have all the benefit associated with a certain color and no drawback, in addition to becoming far cheaper than worse equivalents in the actual colors.
I believe it was Brian Braun-Duin that recently said something along the lines of playing this Eldrazi list feels like playing a Legacy deck in Modern. It's bringing a tank to a knife fight.
Most of us agree with you. I am going to adjust and play the meta and just see how it goes. If folks come up with an answer great, if it's too strong, I am prepared (as is WOTC most likely) to address it with bans.
I agree with you, too, WOTC emergency banning the deck would set for an extremely dangerous and detrimental precedence
Why should anyone care if big Eldrazi aren't viable? There are hundreds of fringe archetypes that will never be competitive, why are Eldrazi suddenly in need of defending?
Because being able to play something at that size can be the payoff of an entire deck and be a satisfying conclusion to a game. It feels great to resolve an Ulamog in a modern environment that normally favors nothing but mid-range, control, or rush to the face style decks. That is why it is worth defending big creature decks.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If playing modern were about feeling good, then decks like Ad Nauseam, Grishoalbrand, Storm, Lantern, and all the other degenerate nonsense wouldn't exist. It's just a shame that without Twin now, most of these are considered Tier 2 or better, rather than fringe garbage. Modern no longer has anything to do with midrange or control. It has hyper aggro, combo, and that's about it. Banning Twin brought us the Affinity/Infect/Burn hyper aggro T1 with degenerate combo T2. Then Oath of the Gatewatch brought in Eldrazi to simply relegate everything down a notch and establish itself as Tier 0. This is no place for feeling good or having fun, and it's going to be a LOOONG time until the dust settles and the format is anywhere near as diverse as it was three months ago.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
There; quoted.
Now, proof please?
Want to be a better Magic player? Read the rulings forum and check out the comprehensive rules!
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
Ok fair enough, I'm not knocking your preferences or what you find fun or satisfying. What I'm saying is what you want to use the lands for and what's actually making them problematic are two different things, and further (and unfortunately) the fact that some minor percentage of people want to use the lands to do fair things like reduce a 10CMC creature to 8CMC won't be considered when they make their ban. That's like me saying all I want to do to in my Amulet Bloom deck is ramp up to as many 2/2 bears as possible in my opening turn because I found it fun. That's irrelevant when other people understand how to maximize its application and get a Primeval Titan into play T2 through a Remand on the draw.
It's possible to make any number of banned cards seem innocuous by saying "I'm only trying to do this cool thing, not break it", but unfortunately the people "Just doing cool things" are in the minority, and most people are just trying to replicate the lists that destroyed PTOGW and make playing fair magic a distinct impossibility.
Big creature decks aren't an issue, if the costs they pay to play the creatures are scaled to the size of the creatures. When a pair of lands can make smaller creatures unfair or heavily under-costed, that's a problem. When something like a T2 TKS is possible, which is a functional Clique except it has +1/+3 and comes down a turn earlier, that's a problem. The same thing goes for an effective 3CMC Thundermaw Hellkite in Reality Smasher. It's also problematic because the Eldrazi ignore the color pie, TKS is essentially a black/blue effect card, while Smasher is effectively a red/green/blue card. It's patently absurd when colorless creatures have all the benefit associated with a certain color and no drawback, in addition to becoming far cheaper than worse equivalents in the actual colors.
I believe it was Brian Braun-Duin that recently said something along the lines of playing this Eldrazi list feels like playing a Legacy deck in Modern. It's bringing a tank to a knife fight.