Yes twin has a good matchup against the builds we see at the PT. The builds of eldrazi with a lot of discard is probably more even.
How though? It seems between Cavern, TKS, Reality Smasher, etc. you have a rough game 1 unless you have the turn 4 kill. Post-board doesn't seem to get much better for Twin player either.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I legitimately don't know.
not to sound a noob. Can they mid season ban something. Maybe once this settles will the meta change. I mean I just dont think every one will start playing eldrazi all of sudden
Which nonland card/s is/are shared between all the Eldrazi decks? Surely there will be an unprecedented presence of something (Thought-Knot or Smasher I'm guessing) in terms of representation in top 8 decklists?
no more bans please, they are really more impactful then one can see. they end up breaking the meta, and those with banned decks.... well we dont feel so good about it. i have started to attempt to find a new deck since the bannings, and its hard, nothing feels "right", and my heart just isnt in the game anymore, all i think is wow, this just isnt as fun or wow, what if this gets banned too? give the format the tools to fix itself, dont take away one problem hoping another one wont resurface
We won't know until we see some games, but I'd expect Jund, Delver and Snapcaster decks to have positive matchups against the CFB deck as presently constructed, once they are re-tuned to consider a Chalice of the Void metagame.
But what would it take? Unless you go first, a first turn chalice turns all discard useless, then the eldrazi would drop all its threats just like affinity…
Also, someone should photoshop LSV and Frank into the MGS4 hug between old snake and ocelot…
We certainly need to rethink some things, but long term I don't know that the mono-C Eldrazi deck is that good. The UR version is scarier long tern because the colors give it more powerful options, even if I think it isn't as inherently powerful.
The real bonus of the deck is that WotC currently doesnt have any specific "eldrazi hate" cards.
For most other decks, some form of really ugly hate card exists.
For affinity its Stony Silence and the like (together with the fairly massive banned list on Affinity cards).
Slower multi-color decks are hurt tremendously by Blood Moon and other non-basic hate.
Graveyard based decks are hated tremendously by Relic of Progenitus and its ugly cousins that just clean your ressources away for pretty much no mana costs at all (and ofcourse Rest in Peace).
Chalice of the Void hurts decks that want to play lots and lots of 1 mana cards.
Any form of "protection" is negated by colorless and format staples like Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile dont particularly work well against the Eldrazi cards, which are 4/4 or 5/5.
Ensnaring Bridge does a really good job to beat Eldrazi decks, but in the end, thats just an artifact that you could adapt to beat, and in worst case a swarm of 1/1 Scions has to do the trick (or you go really big with the Eye and search an Ulamog that removes the Bridge, so the deck can adapt against pretty much anything).
The eldrazi lands are a real problem, that fairly obvisiously make the deck as explosive and without the "nut" draws the decks isnt as much of a threat, as the allready undercosted cards become even more undercosted.
Oath didnt print any real Eldrazi hate card, compared to other sets that put up real stupid hate cards (back to nature against a deck full of Enchantments right after Enchantment creatures ? yea nice joke).
The really ugly part of the Eldrazi deck is that it does support so many colors that are more or less interchangeable, that the deck can be adapted to beat itself in other variations, which leads to a pseudo format, in which you have like X different Eldrazi decks that matchup against each other, and any other deck can be hated out by using an Eldrazi deck type that packs the hate to make the matchup favourable (white for the hate enchantments, black for more discard, etc. etc.).
They wanted to push the Eldrazi, and most likely did so too much (in terms of standard its probably fine, but with the old Eldrazi lands, its becomes just stupid to see the deck perform its "nut" draws, feels unfair, is unfair).
Eye of Ugin will spike in price extremly, even more than it allready is and then it will be banned in the upcomming bannings and people will feel stupid to invest money in that card (or they sell it early enough, which probably would be the smart move).
The people of WOTC were successful at showcasing Oath of the Gatewatch In a Modern protour. They have pleased their Overlord Corporate Management, at the cost of "Diversifying" the format. Greatjob, boys and girls of DCI. May you keep your jobs for 20 more years!
If this is how competitive modern is going to be I'm staying away until at least after April.
The Eldrazi deck is just too fast. Lantern put it perfectly when he said its just strong cards with better stats. The land destruction is too weak there's no efficient way to keep them from resolving or for dealing with them once they are out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
As someone mentioned on the other page, the Eldrazi deck can sub in a lot of variety. UR, UB, etc. It's the same core that wins though (with fast mana being the key).
To me, that feels similar to how they tried to explain Grixis Twin, RUG Twin, UR Twin was all the same thing.
The real bonus of the deck is that WotC currently doesnt have any specific "eldrazi hate" cards.
That is really true.
Well you can't fight their mana because they are proactive/fast enough to punish you, and there is no "colorless creature" hate. So...
...damn.
Time to sleeve up decks that go under it!!!
The whole format of this PT comprised just about every deck that could go under it and it still put up 6 decks. The correct choice is probably to go slightly over it with an Eldrazi deck packing some of the bigger eldrazis/titans.
The real bonus of the deck is that WotC currently doesnt have any specific "eldrazi hate" cards.
That is really true.
Well you can't fight their mana because they are proactive/fast enough to punish you, and there is no "colorless creature" hate. So...
...damn.
Time to sleeve up decks that go under it!!!
The whole format of this PT comprised just about every deck that could go under it and it still put up 6 decks. The correct choice is probably to go slightly over it with an Eldrazi deck packing some of the bigger eldrazis/titans.
well..yeah...but i was working on the assumption that "just play a bigger eldrazi deck" wasn't a valid solution to eldrazi decks.
i think what will happen is that the PT showed the leanest/most streamlined aggro version, and as people adapt it will slowly get bigger/more midrangy.
hopefully this will then open the door for other decks to peek their head out and do well.
or i could be wrong and eldrazi just completely dominates until getting smashed with the ban hammer.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
wouldn't cutting your lightning bolt's for doom blade and the like be a good idea vs eldrazi? it seemed their weakness was stopping their early game shenanigans and getting your own clock out, and real removal spells instead of damage based removal seems like a solid way to get there
Thankfully it's not affinity back in the days of yore as much as a meta that was grossly unprepared for the new deck type. On the plus side, I wonder if merfolk is going to get cheaper now as it didn't have a strong showing and I really want to get a merfolk deck built.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Thankfully it's not affinity back in the days of yore as much as a meta that was grossly unprepared for the new deck type. On the plus side, I wonder if merfolk is going to get cheaper now as it didn't have a strong showing and I really want to get a merfolk deck built.
This is a stupid argument that just plain isn't true. Everyone knew Eldrazi was strong. Don't pretend the pros didnt know that or ignored it.
Wow. And here I was expecting some commentary on games, rooting for players and talking about new fun decks.
Instead pages and pages of knee-jerk stupid ban-talk?
Guess I'll be taking my leave. Mtgsalvation always seems to suck the joy out of stuff like this; i really don't know why I expect anything else lol.
I for one will be enjoying the coverage. See you all on the other side.
After slogging thru 30 pages of the aforementioned dross, I can't agree more. As a player that who returned to magic (modern) and does not have an lgs or play group and relies on this site and others and/or big tourney coverage for their development in a vacuum, I can say that there is something worse than all the dooms ayers etc are saying: it's trying to go thru 30 + pages of this to get even a bare mention of anything involving the games, tech, or anything enjoyable/constructive... that's not too much to ask right?
So we're a GP win and handful of t8 away from an Eye of Ugin ban right? Heck might only need a couple t8s considering there is a very good chance the top 4 of the PT is all Eldrazi.
But I think we will also more control decks pupping up in order to fight eldrazi back
What attrition decks can beat the eldrazi deck? Land destruction is too slow, chalice shuts off cheap interaction, Thought Knot seer takes your best card and is probably bigger than your best threat. Reality Smasher is going to be a two for one every time you try to kill it and it comes down really fast.
Also the deck can just get an "oops I win" draw by killing on turn 2-3. So why would you play an attrition deck over this one?
So we're a GP win and handful of t8 away from an Eye of Ugin ban right? Heck might only need a couple t8s considering there is a very good chance the top 4 of the PT is all Eldrazi.
If we are really talking about bans again, no Eye wont get banned because tron uses it. They'd more likely target Temple. At which point Eldrazi is effectively dead since it depends on fast mana to even survive. It needs answers printed, as the meta wasn't prepared for something like this happening at all. If that fails then the ban hammer is coming and there will be more gnashing of teeth just like when bloom and twin got bannings.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
But I think we will also more control decks pupping up in order to fight eldrazi back
What attrition decks can beat the eldrazi deck? Land destruction is too slow, chalice shuts off cheap interaction, Thought Knot seer takes your best card and is probably bigger than your best threat. Reality Smasher is going to be a two for one every time you try to kill it and it comes down really fast.
Also the deck can just get an "oops I win" draw by killing on turn 2-3. So why would you play an attrition deck over this one?
Maybe something like turn 2 counter-turn 3 life gainer/chump block/ turn 4 mass removal. But speaking honestly, I play the processor list and it really has a difficult matchup against aggro and tron. Have anyone seen that Aaron answered to someone asking "how we beat eldrazi?"with " chalice makes this difficult"? It's really this the problem, that one turn play is the problem, not thought knot neither smasher nor the lands, because a normal eldrazi list struggles against many decks we saw at the pro tour. I think they are thinking about that ssg-chalice play
but does it really? or are you mistaking this eldrazi list for the old, clunky, untuned proccesors lists? t1 mimics, t2 4/4, t3 5/5 haste trample is more than enough game to go up against aggro/infect
How though? It seems between Cavern, TKS, Reality Smasher, etc. you have a rough game 1 unless you have the turn 4 kill. Post-board doesn't seem to get much better for Twin player either.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I legitimately don't know.
They won't ban anything until April. This both follows their ban schedule and is suggested by AF's Tweet.
https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/696123691906633728
tks
reality smasher
matter reshaper
eldrazi mimic
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
The real bonus of the deck is that WotC currently doesnt have any specific "eldrazi hate" cards.
For most other decks, some form of really ugly hate card exists.
For affinity its Stony Silence and the like (together with the fairly massive banned list on Affinity cards).
Slower multi-color decks are hurt tremendously by Blood Moon and other non-basic hate.
Graveyard based decks are hated tremendously by Relic of Progenitus and its ugly cousins that just clean your ressources away for pretty much no mana costs at all (and ofcourse Rest in Peace).
Chalice of the Void hurts decks that want to play lots and lots of 1 mana cards.
Any form of "protection" is negated by colorless and format staples like Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile dont particularly work well against the Eldrazi cards, which are 4/4 or 5/5.
Ensnaring Bridge does a really good job to beat Eldrazi decks, but in the end, thats just an artifact that you could adapt to beat, and in worst case a swarm of 1/1 Scions has to do the trick (or you go really big with the Eye and search an Ulamog that removes the Bridge, so the deck can adapt against pretty much anything).
The eldrazi lands are a real problem, that fairly obvisiously make the deck as explosive and without the "nut" draws the decks isnt as much of a threat, as the allready undercosted cards become even more undercosted.
Oath didnt print any real Eldrazi hate card, compared to other sets that put up real stupid hate cards (back to nature against a deck full of Enchantments right after Enchantment creatures ? yea nice joke).
The really ugly part of the Eldrazi deck is that it does support so many colors that are more or less interchangeable, that the deck can be adapted to beat itself in other variations, which leads to a pseudo format, in which you have like X different Eldrazi decks that matchup against each other, and any other deck can be hated out by using an Eldrazi deck type that packs the hate to make the matchup favourable (white for the hate enchantments, black for more discard, etc. etc.).
They wanted to push the Eldrazi, and most likely did so too much (in terms of standard its probably fine, but with the old Eldrazi lands, its becomes just stupid to see the deck perform its "nut" draws, feels unfair, is unfair).
Eye of Ugin will spike in price extremly, even more than it allready is and then it will be banned in the upcomming bannings and people will feel stupid to invest money in that card (or they sell it early enough, which probably would be the smart move).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The Eldrazi deck is just too fast. Lantern put it perfectly when he said its just strong cards with better stats. The land destruction is too weak there's no efficient way to keep them from resolving or for dealing with them once they are out.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
That is really true.
Well you can't fight their mana because they are proactive/fast enough to punish you, and there is no "colorless creature" hate. So...
...damn.
Time to sleeve up decks that go under it!!!
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)To me, that feels similar to how they tried to explain Grixis Twin, RUG Twin, UR Twin was all the same thing.
well..yeah...but i was working on the assumption that "just play a bigger eldrazi deck" wasn't a valid solution to eldrazi decks.
i think what will happen is that the PT showed the leanest/most streamlined aggro version, and as people adapt it will slowly get bigger/more midrangy.
hopefully this will then open the door for other decks to peek their head out and do well.
or i could be wrong and eldrazi just completely dominates until getting smashed with the ban hammer.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This is a stupid argument that just plain isn't true. Everyone knew Eldrazi was strong. Don't pretend the pros didnt know that or ignored it.
At least forscythe admits this.
https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/696127164639367169
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
After slogging thru 30 pages of the aforementioned dross, I can't agree more. As a player that who returned to magic (modern) and does not have an lgs or play group and relies on this site and others and/or big tourney coverage for their development in a vacuum, I can say that there is something worse than all the dooms ayers etc are saying: it's trying to go thru 30 + pages of this to get even a bare mention of anything involving the games, tech, or anything enjoyable/constructive... that's not too much to ask right?
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
What attrition decks can beat the eldrazi deck? Land destruction is too slow, chalice shuts off cheap interaction, Thought Knot seer takes your best card and is probably bigger than your best threat. Reality Smasher is going to be a two for one every time you try to kill it and it comes down really fast.
Also the deck can just get an "oops I win" draw by killing on turn 2-3. So why would you play an attrition deck over this one?
If we are really talking about bans again, no Eye wont get banned because tron uses it. They'd more likely target Temple. At which point Eldrazi is effectively dead since it depends on fast mana to even survive. It needs answers printed, as the meta wasn't prepared for something like this happening at all. If that fails then the ban hammer is coming and there will be more gnashing of teeth just like when bloom and twin got bannings.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I do agree its extremely difficult to make a midrange deck beat Burn, Affinity, Infect etc And Eldrazi.
Just curious about something...
but does it really? or are you mistaking this eldrazi list for the old, clunky, untuned proccesors lists? t1 mimics, t2 4/4, t3 5/5 haste trample is more than enough game to go up against aggro/infect
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR