totally crazy idea, but could Ormendahl, Profane Prince (flipped Westvale Abbey) be a hint of griselbrand ban?
text: "With Griselbrand gone, the Skirsdag eagerly awaited another demon to claim their devotion. Ormendahl did not make them wait long."
The ban mania has reached new lows.
I mean, maybe we see a Grishoalbrand by the end of 2016. It's possible, especially if Wizards goes all scorched earth with fast mana like Mox and SSG. But reading into the flavor text of a card designed months ago, when that flavor is totally aligned with the story independently of the Modern banlist? That's really wacky.
Come on that's not totally wacky?! Just look at Lava Axe. It's flavor text is "Catch!". That must mean that Lightning Bolt is going to "catch" a ban right?! Can I not use this same theory and say that Werebear's right to bear arms gives us premonition that he is going to be reprinted in Eldritch Moon?! (I know they don't want threshold back but I'd love Werebear in Modern.. the good budget Goyf instead of Fungoyf)
Been lurking this thread for the past few weeks. Didint feel like arguing ideals about what the format should or shouldnt look like. So with the announcement a few days away and a weekend of pre-release upon us, my prediction for Mondays announcement.
Ban- Temple and Mimic.
The reason, By banning Temple and Mimic there is no more explosive starts like a couple mimics into a turn 2 TKS and remove answer and get beat down by turn 3 or 4. Those 2 things are what is making those who dislike the current meta bad. If they leave Temple we still have the chance of getting turn 2 TKS which in its own right can a huge play. Still have the ability to drop Mimics turn 1. Eye is less powerful by itself then paired with Temple. So banning Temple also weakens Eye. I know Wotc doesnt look at price per say when banning, but Temple is the cheaper of the 2 also. A lot of data leans me to think Temple is the play here, not Eye. I mean you have to play Urborg to even get Eye to tap for mana.
Banning both Temple and Eye would kill the deck and I am going by what AF said about not totally killing the deck. I know things could have changed, but we have not heard anymore since so I am going with it.
Unbans- nothing. I think Wotc and the player base needs to see a Twinless format without the invasion of the Eldrazi to see what is safe and what is not. Its possible we see AV come off, but I dont think Wotc will unban anything unless its to sooth hurt feelings which is possible.
Banning both Temple and Eye would kill the deck and I am going by what AF said about not totally killing the deck. I know things could have changed, but we have not heard anymore since so I am going with it.
What possible justification do you have for taking anything a Wizards PR rep has to say? They are famous for purposely misleading players through half-truths and technicalities, giving pieces of information carefully crafted to make people believe one thing and actually mean something completely different. I really don't give a **** what Forsythe has to say. The deck is worse and more oppressive than any other banned deck in Modern's history. It does not deserve half the sympathy people are giving it and should not be allowed to continue without a severe hit (both lands).
Been lurking this thread for the past few weeks. Didint feel like arguing ideals about what the format should or shouldnt look like. So with the announcement a few days away and a weekend of pre-release upon us, my prediction for Mondays announcement.
Ban- Temple and Mimic.
The reason, By banning Temple and Mimic there is no more explosive starts like a couple mimics into a turn 2 TKS and remove answer and get beat down by turn 3 or 4. Those 2 things are what is making those who dislike the current meta bad. If they leave Temple we still have the chance of getting turn 2 TKS which in its own right can a huge play. Still have the ability to drop Mimics turn 1. Eye is less powerful by itself then paired with Temple. So banning Temple also weakens Eye. I know Wotc doesnt look at price per say when banning, but Temple is the cheaper of the 2 also. A lot of data leans me to think Temple is the play here, not Eye. I mean you have to play Urborg to even get Eye to tap for mana.
This is false though. First thing is that having just eye still lets you dump Endless ones out for free. You can still drop TKS on turn 2 (with SSG) and do insane lines of play. Secondly, if you have Temple you can still do Mimic->TKS but it's just that Mimic.. not mimics. It also requires 2 out of 4 Temples and a Mimic and a TKS. What did you get for christmas? Oh a nut draw? Cool deal. Infect and affinity can get those as well and lethal turn 3 as well (bear in mind that a single Mimic into TKS into Reality Smasher for christmas sake is still only 18 damage combined and with 0 interaction or protection from interaction from the opponent. Can it happen? Sure.. but it won't be very common. If you are that worried about Mimic still being a threat to the point of banning it at all.. Ban it and Eye. Now your Turn 2 TKS is still a strong play like it was before the PT but there are still plenty of answers for it.
I think they just ban both lands (and I don't agree with that but I understand it). There is too much risk that the format will stay broken (or at least the complaints as much) if they only hit one. Essentially if the Eldrazi deck survives at Tier 1... I think people will still be frustrated that it didn't get harder. They got overdosed on the deck over the last 3 months and want it axed. Send it down to Tier 2/3 or unplayable according to most people. I don't blame them either. I still hate playing against Delver and it's been more than a year since TC.
They almost never kill a deck. Eggs is still there, it just sucks. Storm is still there, its just Tier 3, Twin is still there, its KikiMite. Bloom is still there, and Hive Mind is as annoying as ever.
What Wizards think of the power levels of Modern decks and what is 'killed' is delightfully out of touch. They do not have the nuance or understanding to make an appropriate communication in this regard. They do not know the format well enough.
Nearly 50% share.
Nearly swept 3 GP's at the same time.
A plague on the format online.
Both lands, or the mistake of having them be 'just' 20% will be realized.
Banning both Temple and Eye would kill the deck and I am going by what AF said about not totally killing the deck. I know things could have changed, but we have not heard anymore since so I am going with it.
What possible justification do you have for taking anything a Wizards PR rep has to say? They are famous for purposely misleading players through half-truths and technicalities, giving pieces of information carefully crafted to make people believe one thing and actually mean something completely different. I really don't give a **** what Forsythe has to say. The deck is worse and more oppressive than any other banned deck in Modern's history. It does not deserve half the sympathy people are giving it and should not be allowed to continue without a severe hit (both lands).
I disagree with your thinking. They have to be cryptic. I understand that. They can not tell people 6 months in advance what they are thinking or it will screw the meta up and change what needs to be done. I understand you are hurt and your anger skews your perception of things.
Quote from Exatraz »
This is false though. First thing is that having just eye still lets you dump Endless ones out for free. You can still drop TKS on turn 2 (with SSG) and do insane lines of play. Secondly, if you have Temple you can still do Mimic->TKS but it's just that Mimic.. not mimics. It also requires 2 out of 4 Temples and a Mimic and a TKS. What did you get for christmas? Oh a nut draw? Cool deal. Infect and affinity can get those as well and lethal turn 3 as well (bear in mind that a single Mimic into TKS into Reality Smasher for christmas sake is still only 18 damage combined and with 0 interaction or protection from interaction from the opponent. Can it happen? Sure.. but it won't be very common. If you are that worried about Mimic still being a threat to the point of banning it at all.. Ban it and Eye. Now your Turn 2 TKS is still a strong play like it was before the PT but there are still plenty of answers for it.
I think they just ban both lands (and I don't agree with that but I understand it). There is too much risk that the format will stay broken (or at least the complaints as much) if they only hit one. Essentially if the Eldrazi deck survives at Tier 1... I think people will still be frustrated that it didn't get harder. They got overdosed on the deck over the last 3 months and want it axed. Send it down to Tier 2/3 or unplayable according to most people. I don't blame them either. I still hate playing against Delver and it's been more than a year since TC.
You are talking about having a very specific set of cards in your hand or drawing into to pull that off without Temples. Wotc has never banned due to Magical Christmas land scenarios.
I dont think both lands get hit this ban announcement. They hit one (thinking Temple) and see what happens.
Having 2 of the same land in hand for Turn 2 is also Christmas. They will ban Eye. It IS the problem and they may also hit temple out of sheer precaution. What they absolutely won't do is just hit Temple. That would be dumb and short sighted.
Having 2 of the same land in hand for Turn 2 is also Christmas. They will ban Eye. It IS the problem and they may also hit temple out of sheer precaution. What they absolutely won't do is just hit Temple. That would be dumb and short sighted.
well i wouldn't say wizards is incapable of making dumb and shortsighted mistakes....
Having 2 of the same land in hand for Turn 2 is also Christmas. They will ban Eye. It IS the problem and they may also hit temple out of sheer precaution. What they absolutely won't do is just hit Temple. That would be dumb and short sighted.
well i wouldn't say wizards is incapable of making dumb and shortsighted mistakes....
I wouldn't say they are incapable but after as much backlash as these last 3 months have been, so much so they were actually forced to look into it and test to see what should be banned. I am sure they will make the correct decision.
They'll ban temple before they ban eye. Eye is legendary, useless in multiples, and as such the least likely to be touched. Been playing eldrazi for a few months, it isn't infallible. Temple banned makes a turn 3 tks possible, not turn 2. By far... less valuable as infect and grishoalbrand kills on turn 2.
Been playing since alpha, wotc is far more conservative about bannings now than they were then. Of course they'd also unban when they banned.
I'm still in the corner of unbanning everything, reprinting a real counterspell, wasteland, etc.... artifact lands? Stony Silence, hurkyl's recall at end of their turn, turn 3 fracturing gust, turn 2 shatterstorm... jitte? No big deal to handle. 12 post? While urzatron is slightly more difficult to assemble, 12 post is slower and with decent land destruction it's not a big deal.
Instead of doing bans, they could get what works in legacy in modern. Torpor Orb stops eldrazi cold. Painter servant slows it down. Leyline protects from tks. Blood Moon can halt eldrazi long enough to win. Blood Moon hurts 12 post. Wrath effects work against creature based strategy builds. Hell, a good daze effect stops tks on turn 2. Pithing Needle and Stony Silence prevents a counterbalance lock.
My drazi deck haz lost to scapeshift, infect, living end, grishoalbrand, elves, and more. Twin vs drazi is a coin flip. Turn 2 remand, turn 3 exarch, turn 4 win. Affinity dropping their hand on turn 1 and playing day's undoing is quite devastating, they almost always win from doing something like that. They refill their hand, have a major board presence, and screwed your entire hand. It's almost as nasty as a pair of hymn to tourachs on turn 1. Junk collected chord has many ways to beat drazi and other decks. While not as effective as pod, it has many favorable matches. My point is that there's answers everywhere but people continue to whine and cry for no real reason. They can't win? Adapt. Even my gw tron has a 50 50 match against eldrazi, of course, been playing tron since 12 post was banned. So I know how the deck runs and I adapt to the meta. It's quite easy to do after all.
They'll ban temple before they ban eye. Eye is legendary, useless in multiples, and as such the least likely to be touched. Been playing eldrazi for a few months, it isn't infallible. Temple banned makes a turn 3 tks possible, not turn 2. By far... less valuable as infect and grishoalbrand kills on turn 2.
Been playing since alpha, wotc is far more conservative about bannings now than they were then. Of course they'd also unban when they banned.
I'm still in the corner of unbanning everything, reprinting a real counterspell, wasteland, etc.... artifact lands? Stony Silence, hurkyl's recall at end of their turn, turn 3 fracturing gust, turn 2 shatterstorm... jitte? No big deal to handle. 12 post? While urzatron is slightly more difficult to assemble, 12 post is slower and with decent land destruction it's not a big deal.
Instead of doing bans, they could get what works in legacy in modern. Torpor Orb stops eldrazi cold. Painter servant slows it down. Leyline protects from tks. Blood Moon can halt eldrazi long enough to win. Blood Moon hurts 12 post. Wrath effects work against creature based strategy builds. Hell, a good daze effect stops tks on turn 2. Pithing Needle and Stony Silence prevents a counterbalance lock.
My drazi deck haz lost to scapeshift, infect, living end, grishoalbrand, elves, and more. Twin vs drazi is a coin flip. Turn 2 remand, turn 3 exarch, turn 4 win. Affinity dropping their hand on turn 1 and playing day's undoing is quite devastating, they almost always win from doing something like that. They refill their hand, have a major board presence, and screwed your entire hand. It's almost as nasty as a pair of hymn to tourachs on turn 1. Junk collected chord has many ways to beat drazi and other decks. While not as effective as pod, it has many favorable matches. My point is that there's answers everywhere but people continue to whine and cry for no real reason. They can't win? Adapt. Even my gw tron has a 50 50 match against eldrazi, of course, been playing tron since 12 post was banned. So I know how the deck runs and I adapt to the meta. It's quite easy to do after all.
By the way everyone, I'm planning to lock the poll tonight (I want it closed before the update comes out, and the possibility of a leak makes me want to end it earlier), so if you've put off voting this is your last chance.
Adapt to one deck you mean. One format warping deck. Makes total sense...
Orb deals with more than one deck archetype.
What I find funny is people qq over things and wants wotc to solve their problems for them. The answers are there, but people refuse to find it themselves. Just as blood moon shuts down so many decks. And you didn't even read my post. Just as djphan even goes close the thread didn't even read the post either and makes an assumption. Sadly though, it's the people who are crying that are going to get what they want. Because they are too lazy to do anything, butt hurt over stupid bans like pod and twin, or just uninformed about anything. I like orb, it shuts off titan, fish, curio, drazi, finks, and such...?
I personally believe they should have left nothing on a modern ban list when modern was created. Only ban after a while when there were real problem cards. One thing I hate about the bans is that they don't like to unban anything, I hate Jace, but I don't think that he is an issue in Modern, there's too many answers. They figured out bitterblossom wasn't broken and they finally decided to unban it. Same with artifact lands. Same with Top. Needle, stony, and revoker deals with it. What I like about legacy os people adapt to problems. Why eldrazi isn't as good in legacy? People see the weaknesses and exploit them. Plus they have wasteland. Which should be in modern too. In modern, people cry and qq and doesn't do anything to solve their problems. When Pod was legal I played torpor orb. When summer bloom was legal I played tron. I'd win by killing their chances for a win condition. Nature's Claim works on many things. It even works on Jitte. Shattering Spree plays around chalice... shattering spree is nice against affinity.
But people keep talking like they're pro players. Right.... My hive mind deck was under 100 bucks before it became popular. Because it was an off the wall deck, a pile of cards... twin though? I don't get it. I never played Twin and I always had a good time playing against it. But to ban both these lands? Please... give me a break.
That's what annoys me, people are too lazy. Eldrazi is too good, well... not with torpor orbs, board wipes, etc... But they can do x and y on this turn if they have land a and b or two land a's. Because land b is free mana is too good, sorry.. don't buy it.
Torpor orb screws up many things, an eldrazi deck folds to a turn 2 blood moon.
I see we have come back to the "people are too lazy" excuse... after 3 months and several major events.
The outright dismissal of all relevant statistics over this period of time is truly incredible. I don't know how to even begin to address such a logical, well supported statement.
I feel like there's no good way to get rid of the problem without killing the deck. When they came out with good eldrazi that cost less than the usual 6-10+ they made a mistake. Eye and temple were fine reducing the cost of expensive eldrazi because they would still cost a reasonable amount. Reducing the cost by 2 when it only costs 2 3 4 or 5 is way more significant than when it costs 10. So really the creatures were the mistake. But yeah there's no way to really balance the deck out at this point. Either kill it or its gonna still be too good.
Blood moon does not shut down eldrazi... It slows it down a by two turns. You have to have a solid clock of your own to beat it as well, same as against tron. T3 blood moon on the draw is not very impressive when they went mimic -> tks -> smasher. This is also requiring you play red just to be able to slow the deck down a turn or two and water down your main deck with a 3 mana enchantment that does very little against a lot of the meta
I personally believe they should have left nothing on a modern ban list when modern was created. Only ban after a while when there were real problem cards. One thing I hate about the bans is that they don't like to unban anything, I hate Jace, but I don't think that he is an issue in Modern, there's too many answers. They figured out bitterblossom wasn't broken and they finally decided to unban it. Same with artifact lands. Same with Top. Needle, stony, and revoker deals with it. What I like about legacy os people adapt to problems. Why eldrazi isn't as good in legacy? People see the weaknesses and exploit them. Plus they have wasteland. Which should be in modern too. In modern, people cry and qq and doesn't do anything to solve their problems. When Pod was legal I played torpor orb. When summer bloom was legal I played tron. I'd win by killing their chances for a win condition. Nature's Claim works on many things. It even works on Jitte. Shattering Spree plays around chalice... shattering spree is nice against affinity.
But people keep talking like they're pro players. Right.... My hive mind deck was under 100 bucks before it became popular. Because it was an off the wall deck, a pile of cards... twin though? I don't get it. I never played Twin and I always had a good time playing against it. But to ban both these lands? Please... give me a break.
That's what annoys me, people are too lazy. Eldrazi is too good, well... not with torpor orbs, board wipes, etc... But they can do x and y on this turn if they have land a and b or two land a's. Because land b is free mana is too good, sorry.. don't buy it.
Torpor orb screws up many things, an eldrazi deck folds to a turn 2 blood moon.
That's just lazy logic though. Sure there are answers but nobody wants a format full of eldrazi and anti eldrazi decks. That's stupid.
Eye of Ugin isn't really a problem because it's "restricted" by its legendary type. If part of Eldrazi is indeed banned on Monday it should be Eldrazi Temple. That would keep some of the explosiveness of the build intact, while slowing it down enough so that T2 TKS is no longer a thing.
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Come on that's not totally wacky?! Just look at Lava Axe. It's flavor text is "Catch!". That must mean that Lightning Bolt is going to "catch" a ban right?! Can I not use this same theory and say that Werebear's right to bear arms gives us premonition that he is going to be reprinted in Eldritch Moon?! (I know they don't want threshold back but I'd love Werebear in Modern.. the good budget Goyf instead of Fungoyf)
Ban- Temple and Mimic.
The reason, By banning Temple and Mimic there is no more explosive starts like a couple mimics into a turn 2 TKS and remove answer and get beat down by turn 3 or 4. Those 2 things are what is making those who dislike the current meta bad. If they leave Temple we still have the chance of getting turn 2 TKS which in its own right can a huge play. Still have the ability to drop Mimics turn 1. Eye is less powerful by itself then paired with Temple. So banning Temple also weakens Eye. I know Wotc doesnt look at price per say when banning, but Temple is the cheaper of the 2 also. A lot of data leans me to think Temple is the play here, not Eye. I mean you have to play Urborg to even get Eye to tap for mana.
Banning both Temple and Eye would kill the deck and I am going by what AF said about not totally killing the deck. I know things could have changed, but we have not heard anymore since so I am going with it.
Unbans- nothing. I think Wotc and the player base needs to see a Twinless format without the invasion of the Eldrazi to see what is safe and what is not. Its possible we see AV come off, but I dont think Wotc will unban anything unless its to sooth hurt feelings which is possible.
What possible justification do you have for taking anything a Wizards PR rep has to say? They are famous for purposely misleading players through half-truths and technicalities, giving pieces of information carefully crafted to make people believe one thing and actually mean something completely different. I really don't give a **** what Forsythe has to say. The deck is worse and more oppressive than any other banned deck in Modern's history. It does not deserve half the sympathy people are giving it and should not be allowed to continue without a severe hit (both lands).
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
This is false though. First thing is that having just eye still lets you dump Endless ones out for free. You can still drop TKS on turn 2 (with SSG) and do insane lines of play. Secondly, if you have Temple you can still do Mimic->TKS but it's just that Mimic.. not mimics. It also requires 2 out of 4 Temples and a Mimic and a TKS. What did you get for christmas? Oh a nut draw? Cool deal. Infect and affinity can get those as well and lethal turn 3 as well (bear in mind that a single Mimic into TKS into Reality Smasher for christmas sake is still only 18 damage combined and with 0 interaction or protection from interaction from the opponent. Can it happen? Sure.. but it won't be very common. If you are that worried about Mimic still being a threat to the point of banning it at all.. Ban it and Eye. Now your Turn 2 TKS is still a strong play like it was before the PT but there are still plenty of answers for it.
I think they just ban both lands (and I don't agree with that but I understand it). There is too much risk that the format will stay broken (or at least the complaints as much) if they only hit one. Essentially if the Eldrazi deck survives at Tier 1... I think people will still be frustrated that it didn't get harder. They got overdosed on the deck over the last 3 months and want it axed. Send it down to Tier 2/3 or unplayable according to most people. I don't blame them either. I still hate playing against Delver and it's been more than a year since TC.
They almost never kill a deck. Eggs is still there, it just sucks. Storm is still there, its just Tier 3, Twin is still there, its KikiMite. Bloom is still there, and Hive Mind is as annoying as ever.
What Wizards think of the power levels of Modern decks and what is 'killed' is delightfully out of touch. They do not have the nuance or understanding to make an appropriate communication in this regard. They do not know the format well enough.
Nearly 50% share.
Nearly swept 3 GP's at the same time.
A plague on the format online.
Both lands, or the mistake of having them be 'just' 20% will be realized.
Spirits
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
I disagree with your thinking. They have to be cryptic. I understand that. They can not tell people 6 months in advance what they are thinking or it will screw the meta up and change what needs to be done. I understand you are hurt and your anger skews your perception of things.
You are talking about having a very specific set of cards in your hand or drawing into to pull that off without Temples. Wotc has never banned due to Magical Christmas land scenarios.
I dont think both lands get hit this ban announcement. They hit one (thinking Temple) and see what happens.
well i wouldn't say wizards is incapable of making dumb and shortsighted mistakes....
I wouldn't say they are incapable but after as much backlash as these last 3 months have been, so much so they were actually forced to look into it and test to see what should be banned. I am sure they will make the correct decision.
What's better for that, ketchup or mustard?
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Spirits
Jokes on us.. he'll just eat a "Fun"goyf.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Been playing since alpha, wotc is far more conservative about bannings now than they were then. Of course they'd also unban when they banned.
I'm still in the corner of unbanning everything, reprinting a real counterspell, wasteland, etc.... artifact lands? Stony Silence, hurkyl's recall at end of their turn, turn 3 fracturing gust, turn 2 shatterstorm... jitte? No big deal to handle. 12 post? While urzatron is slightly more difficult to assemble, 12 post is slower and with decent land destruction it's not a big deal.
Instead of doing bans, they could get what works in legacy in modern. Torpor Orb stops eldrazi cold. Painter servant slows it down. Leyline protects from tks. Blood Moon can halt eldrazi long enough to win. Blood Moon hurts 12 post. Wrath effects work against creature based strategy builds. Hell, a good daze effect stops tks on turn 2. Pithing Needle and Stony Silence prevents a counterbalance lock.
My drazi deck haz lost to scapeshift, infect, living end, grishoalbrand, elves, and more. Twin vs drazi is a coin flip. Turn 2 remand, turn 3 exarch, turn 4 win. Affinity dropping their hand on turn 1 and playing day's undoing is quite devastating, they almost always win from doing something like that. They refill their hand, have a major board presence, and screwed your entire hand. It's almost as nasty as a pair of hymn to tourachs on turn 1. Junk collected chord has many ways to beat drazi and other decks. While not as effective as pod, it has many favorable matches. My point is that there's answers everywhere but people continue to whine and cry for no real reason. They can't win? Adapt. Even my gw tron has a 50 50 match against eldrazi, of course, been playing tron since 12 post was banned. So I know how the deck runs and I adapt to the meta. It's quite easy to do after all.
Spirits
close the thread... this guy figured it out...
Here's the link again:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/679806-what-cards-do-you-think-should-be-banned-or
Orb deals with more than one deck archetype.
What I find funny is people qq over things and wants wotc to solve their problems for them. The answers are there, but people refuse to find it themselves. Just as blood moon shuts down so many decks. And you didn't even read my post. Just as djphan even goes close the thread didn't even read the post either and makes an assumption. Sadly though, it's the people who are crying that are going to get what they want. Because they are too lazy to do anything, butt hurt over stupid bans like pod and twin, or just uninformed about anything. I like orb, it shuts off titan, fish, curio, drazi, finks, and such...?
But people keep talking like they're pro players. Right.... My hive mind deck was under 100 bucks before it became popular. Because it was an off the wall deck, a pile of cards... twin though? I don't get it. I never played Twin and I always had a good time playing against it. But to ban both these lands? Please... give me a break.
That's what annoys me, people are too lazy. Eldrazi is too good, well... not with torpor orbs, board wipes, etc... But they can do x and y on this turn if they have land a and b or two land a's. Because land b is free mana is too good, sorry.. don't buy it.
Torpor orb screws up many things, an eldrazi deck folds to a turn 2 blood moon.
The outright dismissal of all relevant statistics over this period of time is truly incredible. I don't know how to even begin to address such a logical, well supported statement.
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
That's just lazy logic though. Sure there are answers but nobody wants a format full of eldrazi and anti eldrazi decks. That's stupid.