I did my rant already in the Twin forum and I'm not even a Twin deck player. This is just idiotic. Does wizards only have this one section of time in January to ban cards or can they do it at any point of the year? With a void of sane reasoning being found in the explanation for why they banned twin, the only reason I can think of for banning it is they got something in the future design space that would basically break splinter twin if it was left in the format. I.e, something they have in R&D for Shadows over Innistrad.
They ban/unban cards quarterly. And two things argue against your conspiracy theory, one WotC hardly tests eternal formats during new set development and two Splinter Twin is already an infinite combo, how much more busted could it be?
The banning caused the unexpected death of my first modern deck = UR twin, had the deck for years and now it has ended.
Well, I'm not angry anymore.. other decks can have a chance now that twin is banned - maybe something else would fill the empty spot, another strong deck that can be a "police" in the format.
One thing I do tonight before sleeping.. is remove 3 cards in the sideboard of my Affinity deck for twin - and replace it with 3 cards that do something against Tron. Just in case Tron does become one of the more dominant decks in Modern.
I'm shocked they banned Twin without unbanning anything to help draw-go or midrange strategies. This is probably an overly fatalistic conclusion but it feels like Wizards just said "We really like a diverse metagame as long as you're playing creature based ramp or linear aggro that's T1.5 or below." Realistically the Twin banning will probably give rise to some sweet decks. Hopefully SoI will be filled to bursting with sweet mid-range and control cards/reprints. But as of right now the bannings feel pretty bad and they seem to set the precedent that decks which large meta shares will always have a huge target on their backs.
i am serious because i read it quite clearly this morning just search it up pls, if not i'll ask my pal to give me the link again
'sword will make lantern control deck more obnoxious than it already is' that's the exact tweet
imo it's just an excuse to keep unfun decks as fringe as possible
I know you're serious. I'm laughing at the Tweet myself because Lantern is a deck we all should be afraid of, right? I've know a few really good players who tried Lantern. Even Sam Black was on the deck for a while. Sure, it hasn't gotten the same percentage of play as other Tier 2 decks, but I don't honestly feel like it is something to be afraid of, although someone recently told me about the ability to stall games. I haven't seen it yet myself.
(I should clarify that I read the Tweet yesterday evening after coming back from FNM. Now, it's 9 in the morning on Sat.) I also want to say that when Zac Elsik won the GP with Lantern, he seemed to be the best player in that tournament at that time. He also had some good luck and was running extremely, some would say Scalding, hot. This is just my impression and someone who actually was there physically can clear up these views of mine if they need to.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Wizards wants people to play Standard. This is not happening right now.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. This is the worst ban they've made in years. I thought I was playing Magic: the Gathering, not Rise of the Robots. You now can choose between big colorless robots (Tron), little colorless robots (Affinity), or big colorless Lovecraftian alien monstrosities (Eldrazi), maybe with one or two dudes playing some Scapeshift on the side. This format sounds about as much fun as chugging a gallon of Clorox and I can actively believe that Wizards did this to make Modern worse to encourage lackluster Standard numbers.
Blue is dead and the five colors of Magic now are red, green, black, white, and colorless. Sell your Islands, folks, you can only use them in Legacy now.
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
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As a Lantern player, I'm saddened by the Twin ban. Why? Not because Tron and linear aggro (Affinity, Infect, Bogles, Burn) just got a whole lot better, which they did, but because I assume Tron and Affinity are next on the chopping block. Why do I care that Tron and Affinity will be on the chopping block? Because the natural bans for those decks are Ancient Stirrings and Mox Opal... and Lantern needs those two cards.
Honestly, if you're a Tron player, how are you not terrified that you're next? Because you are. Tron is next.
And WOTC is worried Sword of the Meek would slot into Lantern? What are they smoking? Why would we waste 8 slots on a win-con for a deck that already has enough (Lantern of Insight + mill rock + Ensnaring Bridge)?
Finally, when WOTC says "diversity", do they mean deck diversity or archetype diversity? I think archetype diversity is far more important. The way I see it, Infect and Bogles, for example, are basically the same deck: make tiny dudes, buff 'em, swing. Getting rid of Twin allows for more deck diversity, but greatly narrows archetype diversity.
It SCREAMS of being a marketing ploy to get people to play Standard. Right now many Modern players will play Standard since it is the only other format that we can actively play (Legacy is just too darn hard to find). I do feel like there will be some unbans or reprints that will attract Modern players once again. They are going to suck in Blue players again some day soon, but only after people start playing more Standard. More singles means more packs opened.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Is anyone else looking at their format staples and wanting to sell out of the format? I used to love the format, but I am terrified that all my hard work in brewing and my investment is all for nothing. We are just going to ban everything until we are swinging bears at on another, and that will one day be deemed to powerful.
I'm not even a Twin player, nor have I ever been. But we've seen a pillar of the format take an unnecessary hit. First BBE, and now Twin. Pod deserved what it got, but it still wasn't good for the format. What now? Do we go after Inkmoth to hit both Infect and Affinity? Are we going to start banning tier two decks just because? There is no longer any stability in what was called an eternal format. Wizards is seeking to turn Modern into the next Extended, by putting it in it's grave.
Sure I play fast because I have a lot of games under my belt, but honestly it's more than just that. I'm playing fast because the game is already over... it was over the moment I played that third mill rock with an Ensnaring Bridge in play. There's only one thing in the entirety of the rest of the game that I care about, and that's what my opponent is drawing next. As long as it's a card that won't get them out of the lock then I don't care what they draw. There aren't anymore decisions I have to make. I can simply draw any card, play it, and pass the turn.
P.S. that Twitter thread also has Zac Elsik saying "doubt it but maybe" regarding Thopter Sword in Lantern.
I agree that the Twin ban was out of the blue, but hey at least you Twin players still have a bunch of expensive, extremely good cards. I, as an Amulet Bloom player, now have a giant pile of cards that will never, ever see play in any other deck. Half of them foiled out too. I'm not that upset though. I bought into the deck before the price spike after Pro Tour Fate Reforged. So I didn't lose any value, but I don't think I'll be playing as much Modern. I have Ad Nauseam, but if Infect and Affinity are running wild, I don't have much of a chance with that.
Amidst all of the SFM talk, a lot of people would throw out "well that would go against everything they've ever done in the past." From this point on we can't use anything in the past as precedent.
It just seems crazy that Splinter Twin was released in MM2015. NINE MONTHS AGO!!!!
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GP Singapore Coverage:What did you have for breakfast this morning?
And WOTC is worried Sword of the Meek would slot into Lantern? What are they smoking? Why would we waste 8 slots on a win-con for a deck that already has enough (Lantern of Insight + mill rock + Ensnaring Bridge)?
lol!
Just posted about that on the Lantern thread. The head of R&D thinks Lantern would slot in Sword of the Meek. Lmao! How is this guy in charge of R&D? Hes either not doing his job (Researching) or just plain loosing it. The Twin ban makes the latter one debatable.
To be fair though, and I'm pretty sure I'll get jumped on for this, the Twin ban does not send a "if your deck is top tier and hits a streak, it will eat a ban". I read the announcement again and it looks like there are 2 factors into it.
1. The Pod factor: The deck was dominant, winning or top 8ing a lot.
2. The GSZ/DRS factor: The deck homogenized the field too much. Too many decks were slotting Twin into their shells, reducing diversity.
I agree that the Twin ban was out of the blue, but hey at least you Twin players still have a bunch of expensive, extremely good cards. I, as an Amulet Bloom player, now have a giant pile of cards that will never, ever see play in any other deck. Half of them foiled out too. I'm not that upset though. I bought into the deck before the price spike after Pro Tour Fate Reforged. So I didn't lose any value, but I don't think I'll be playing as much Modern. I have Ad Nauseam, but if Infect and Affinity are running wild, I don't have much of a chance with that.
I feel badly because I am a Combo player myself. I bought into Bloom when it started for around $150. I have had the deck for around 2 years now, only playing it at FNM for 1 month total for around $40-60 in store credit. I think the strong message here is if your Combo deck is Tier 1 or unfun to play against, then it will get banned.
Summer Bloom and Splinter Twin join my collection of ripped cards. Right now I have Seething Song and Birthing Pod in that collection. People love seeing my ripped cards, but it is nothing like how many cards of others that have been ripped by Wizards.
Play Standard folks. Watch the Modern Pro Tour, if only to see what will get banned next. Right now I am PLEADING with Seth Mansfield not to run Bogles. I am very scared of a Bogles ban. :shiver:
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Is anyone else looking at their format staples and wanting to sell out of the format? I used to love the format, but I am terrified that all my hard work in brewing and my investment is all for nothing. We are just going to ban everything until we are swinging bears at on another, and that will one day be deemed to powerful.
I'm not even a Twin player, nor have I ever been. But we've seen a pillar of the format take an unnecessary hit. First BBE, and now Twin. Pod deserved what it got, but it still wasn't good for the format. What now? Do we go after Inkmoth to hit both Infect and Affinity? Are we going to start banning tier two decks just because? There is no longer any stability in what was called an eternal format. Wizards is seeking to turn Modern into the next Extended, by putting it in it's grave.
You're overreacting. Jund is still tier 1 after two bans. They printed Collected Company to help Pod pick up the pieces (Zoo and Elves too, I might add - both of which have had cards banned at some point).
Twin just loses the combo pieces. The rest of the deck is made up of staples that go into a wide variety of other decks. And UWR Kiki is a valid contender that plays out mildly similar to Twin (about as much as CC is to Pod or Glimpse of Nature).
This ban announcement has really made everyone lose their minds. Normally people are calm and will tell you to wait until the next big event before drawing conclusions...now they're running around, flailing their arms, asserting that Modern is ruined forever. Allow me to be the voice of reason: there's a PT in 3 weeks, so let's wait until the results are in, shall we? If it turns out banning Twin was a bad move you'll have my full support.
I think it's appropriate to adapt Harvey Dent's famous line to Modern: you either lose with a Tier 2 pile, or win enough top 8s to see your deck become the next banned "villain".
I dont know. I am not a fan of instability, I may just play Legacy instead.
Regardless of the impact of the ban, it wasnt needed. It just wasnt. If the players cannot divine if something is fine or not, in a community as huge as MTG has, then the controlling company needs to do a better job communicating.
There should not be shock when something is banned.
I did my rant already in the Twin forum and I'm not even a Twin deck player. This is just idiotic. Does wizards only have this one section of time in January to ban cards or can they do it at any point of the year? With a void of sane reasoning being found in the explanation for why they banned twin, the only reason I can think of for banning it is they got something in the future design space that would basically break splinter twin if it was left in the format. I.e, something they have in R&D for Shadows over Innistrad.
Banned lists are updated with the release of each main set.
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They ban/unban cards quarterly. And two things argue against your conspiracy theory, one WotC hardly tests eternal formats during new set development and two Splinter Twin is already an infinite combo, how much more busted could it be?
It seems you like my signature haha
Well, I'm not angry anymore.. other decks can have a chance now that twin is banned - maybe something else would fill the empty spot, another strong deck that can be a "police" in the format.
One thing I do tonight before sleeping.. is remove 3 cards in the sideboard of my Affinity deck for twin - and replace it with 3 cards that do something against Tron. Just in case Tron does become one of the more dominant decks in Modern.
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That statement says it all.
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
Fish
0 Affinity 0
Blue Moon
I know you're serious. I'm laughing at the Tweet myself because Lantern is a deck we all should be afraid of, right? I've know a few really good players who tried Lantern. Even Sam Black was on the deck for a while. Sure, it hasn't gotten the same percentage of play as other Tier 2 decks, but I don't honestly feel like it is something to be afraid of, although someone recently told me about the ability to stall games. I haven't seen it yet myself.
(I should clarify that I read the Tweet yesterday evening after coming back from FNM. Now, it's 9 in the morning on Sat.) I also want to say that when Zac Elsik won the GP with Lantern, he seemed to be the best player in that tournament at that time. He also had some good luck and was running extremely, some would say Scalding, hot. This is just my impression and someone who actually was there physically can clear up these views of mine if they need to.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Blue is dead and the five colors of Magic now are red, green, black, white, and colorless. Sell your Islands, folks, you can only use them in Legacy now.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Honestly, if you're a Tron player, how are you not terrified that you're next? Because you are. Tron is next.
And WOTC is worried Sword of the Meek would slot into Lantern? What are they smoking? Why would we waste 8 slots on a win-con for a deck that already has enough (Lantern of Insight + mill rock + Ensnaring Bridge)?
Finally, when WOTC says "diversity", do they mean deck diversity or archetype diversity? I think archetype diversity is far more important. The way I see it, Infect and Bogles, for example, are basically the same deck: make tiny dudes, buff 'em, swing. Getting rid of Twin allows for more deck diversity, but greatly narrows archetype diversity.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I'm not even a Twin player, nor have I ever been. But we've seen a pillar of the format take an unnecessary hit. First BBE, and now Twin. Pod deserved what it got, but it still wasn't good for the format. What now? Do we go after Inkmoth to hit both Infect and Affinity? Are we going to start banning tier two decks just because? There is no longer any stability in what was called an eternal format. Wizards is seeking to turn Modern into the next Extended, by putting it in it's grave.
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http://themeadery.org/b/zacelsik/read/why-is-lantern-control-a-real-deck/
P.S. that Twitter thread also has Zac Elsik saying "doubt it but maybe" regarding Thopter Sword in Lantern.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Big papa Tron will never let that happen. Control decks are just out of the picture.
Unbelievable.
Junk
Naya Burn
Naya Zoo
8-Whack
Fish (ON)
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
It just seems crazy that Splinter Twin was released in MM2015. NINE MONTHS AGO!!!!
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
lol!
Just posted about that on the Lantern thread. The head of R&D thinks Lantern would slot in Sword of the Meek. Lmao! How is this guy in charge of R&D? Hes either not doing his job (Researching) or just plain loosing it. The Twin ban makes the latter one debatable.
To be fair though, and I'm pretty sure I'll get jumped on for this, the Twin ban does not send a "if your deck is top tier and hits a streak, it will eat a ban". I read the announcement again and it looks like there are 2 factors into it.
1. The Pod factor: The deck was dominant, winning or top 8ing a lot.
2. The GSZ/DRS factor: The deck homogenized the field too much. Too many decks were slotting Twin into their shells, reducing diversity.
"When you get your opponent down to 0 sanity, you win the game!"
Good luck with the new meta
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
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I feel badly because I am a Combo player myself. I bought into Bloom when it started for around $150. I have had the deck for around 2 years now, only playing it at FNM for 1 month total for around $40-60 in store credit. I think the strong message here is if your Combo deck is Tier 1 or unfun to play against, then it will get banned.
Summer Bloom and Splinter Twin join my collection of ripped cards. Right now I have Seething Song and Birthing Pod in that collection. People love seeing my ripped cards, but it is nothing like how many cards of others that have been ripped by Wizards.
Play Standard folks. Watch the Modern Pro Tour, if only to see what will get banned next. Right now I am PLEADING with Seth Mansfield not to run Bogles. I am very scared of a Bogles ban. :shiver:
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Twin just loses the combo pieces. The rest of the deck is made up of staples that go into a wide variety of other decks. And UWR Kiki is a valid contender that plays out mildly similar to Twin (about as much as CC is to Pod or Glimpse of Nature).
This ban announcement has really made everyone lose their minds. Normally people are calm and will tell you to wait until the next big event before drawing conclusions...now they're running around, flailing their arms, asserting that Modern is ruined forever. Allow me to be the voice of reason: there's a PT in 3 weeks, so let's wait until the results are in, shall we? If it turns out banning Twin was a bad move you'll have my full support.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Regardless of the impact of the ban, it wasnt needed. It just wasnt. If the players cannot divine if something is fine or not, in a community as huge as MTG has, then the controlling company needs to do a better job communicating.
There should not be shock when something is banned.
Spirits
Banned lists are updated with the release of each main set.