I really don't know if the meta will shake out, but I'd be doing a disservice to the resiliency of the format if I didn't even think we should try to let it shake out, ya know?
Everyone can see that the deck is a huge problem. Why should we let the format suffer for two months until April? Who wants a terrible GP filled with Eldrazi dittos? An emergency ban is the sensible option here for Magic as a spectator sport.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
On a side note, it seems everyone gets pissed EVERY time a new deck hits tier 1. I'm not saying it isn't always justified, but it's definitely a bad characteristic of the modern community as a whole.
It's at least partially because of the constant bans. When you're constantly banning things, players will request bannings more frequently.
I really don't know if the meta will shake out, but I'd be doing a disservice to the resiliency of the format if I didn't even think we should try to let it shake out, ya know?
Everyone can see that the deck is a huge problem. Why should we let the format suffer for two months until April? Who wants a terrible GP filled with Eldrazi dittos? An emergency ban is the sensible option here for Magic as a spectator sport.
I've just been staunchly anti banning. If the next GP is all eldrazi, and all of the scg events are all Eldrazi, then an emergency ban will probably be on the table from WOTC's perspective.
This reminds me of week 1 of Jeskai Ascendancy except that that deck turned out to be beatable.
Still, those blue control players deserve a round of applause. UW Restoration, Esper, UWR Kiki (lmao), Jeskai Black (lmao again) is a lot more pleasing than Twin, Twin, Grixis Twin, Tarmo Twin.
The idea behind going under these Eldarzi decks was the ramp kind. The Oblivion Sower kind into Ulamog. This flood the board and swing for lethal isnt something any of the other linear decks are going to do well against, this goes faster, bigger, sooner. :/
The PT meta was unable to adapt because it's such a new deck and came out of nowhere in force. It is NOT hard to develop a deck that specifically shuts down this Eldrazi deck (I'm NOT speaking to the viability of such a deck in an open metagame) as all it would really take is mana leaks, remands, and Wraths. The PT meta is DRAMATICALLY more inbred than things we will see at GPs, IQs, or local events.
Having played against it with exactly this kind of deck at regionals yesterday, and then tested more against it after I got home, I really very highly doubt it. The deck you're describing is ruined by chalice on 1, and TKS comes down earlier than your wrath effects. Mana leak/Remand was alright but they can play guys much faster than you can counter them. The times wraths did come down, they often got replacement cards from Matter Reshaper and or crashed in with Reality Smasher the turn after. Having to hold up Mana Leak when you are facing down multiple Eldrazi Mimics in the early turns is also very awkward, but not the worst thing if you're keeping them from being larger than 2/1.
As an aside, (this isn't necessarily directed at you) there is not much about this deck that seems like a meta call to me, but I have heard people in various contexts point to Chalice of the Void on this. Chalice of the Void is not a meta call. It is good in all metas due to the curves of modern. The only reason it doesn't see more play is 1) You have to break the symmetry of Chalice on 1 by not playing 1 drops, or make sure Chalice hurts you much less than them (extremely few decks can do this), and 2) It can simply not be enough on the draw when you're not running spirit guide. Every single creature in this deck either demands spot removal, is a 2 for 1, or both, and they all come down ahead of curve. This deck circumvents both of these drawbacks by getting to play it on turn 0/Turn 1 on draw and can live without its 1 drops while its opponent needs another removal spell + a path to kill just 1 reality smasher assuming there is no chalice in play or a TKS didn't already take one of them.
I'd love to be wrong and that there are meta decks against this, but I really don't see what kind of new deck can beat this without simultaneously attesting to how warping of a presence a deck that attacks like this is. We still don't have a ton of evidence of how the deck performs in a wider field but I just don't see how you realistically "hate" on this deck.
Again, as someone who really prefers for bans not to happen, I do not think the format really has tools to hate on what this deck is doing. Hopefully myself and others are wrong and this deck isn't as dominating as its current performances suggest.
I agree that it's necessarily believe it's a "meta call," it's just an extremely powerful deck. 5/5 haste trample on turn 3 is pretty good. Multiple attacking 4/4s on turn 2 is pretty good. Multiple "free" creatures turn 1 with the capability of growing through the game is pretty good. It presents a lot of extremely difficult to deal with threats faster than most decks can deal with effectively. If it's a "meta call" under what circumstances would you NOT want to play the deck? It seems incredibly good against just about everything, barring multiple mulligans and extremely poor draws.
Yes, but then the next GP and SCG events are all ruined. Who wants that? You're basically just saying you want no Magic as a spectator sport for two months. It's exceedingly clear that this deck is out of whack, and a ban is in order. The meta can't adapt in a healthy way: you might be able to get some kind of wacky Ensnaring Bridge deck to be viable but that's not a healthy meta.
I agree that the meta was better off before, but we can't go back to that. Even if we could, we'd just have Bloom stealing turn 2 wins vs. Eldrazi, or Twin pulling it off like 30% of the time when they don't have a Thought-Knot. The deck would still be way too good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
You guys keep calling Eye and Temple Ancient Tomb. Both of those lands are a lot better than Ancient Tomb. Ancient Tomb would make you lose to burn, possibly even with a Chalice@1.
Eye of ugin is city of traitors while temple is ancient tomb. The issue is that we have no good land hate that is efficient enough to combat those cards. One has to go and it's probably eye. It's a matter of when. (emergency ban or wait til SOI)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
On mtgsalvation people don't want to discuss ideas, so I give people something else to discuss: my controversial opinions.
I love the knee jerk reaction to the first large event after the ban announcement. I dont think it means much. The next few weeks will make us understand the meta much more. I am all for bannings when needed, but I dont think these results for 1 event mean there needs to be a ban. Maybe if we see Eldrazi dominate over the next 4-6 weeks, but its yet to be seen. Its just the course correction from the bannings, give the meta a bit to see how it fleshes out.
The end game that eye of ugin provides of repeatedly drawing the best card in your deck every turn combined with the fast mana is the problem.
Eldrazi temple is a fine card independently in the deck, but Eye makes it an aggro deck that can go over the top of control and midrange decks, which is the problem.
Eldrazi temple is a fine card independently in the deck, but Eye makes it an aggro deck that can go over the top of control and midrange decks, which is the problem.
The only argument against banning Eye is that banning it hurts Tron. I would argue that Modern would be a significantly better format if Tron didn't exist and that it would be nice if Wizards sculpted the meta with bans so that it didn't, but you can't call it overpowered right now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I love the knee jerk reaction to the first large event after the ban announcement. I dont think it means much. The next few weeks will make us understand the meta much more. I am all for bannings when needed, but I dont think these results for 1 event mean there needs to be a ban. Maybe if we see Eldrazi dominate over the next 4-6 weeks, but its yet to be seen. Its just the course correction from the bannings, give the meta a bit to see how it fleshes out.
"Move along, everything is fine, don't worry about Eldrazi."
What do you predict happens the next 4-6 weeks? What deck would prey on Eldrazi that doesn't also lose to the rest of the field of aggro and combo?
Thank god there's a pro tour for this set. This has made it abundantly clear that the power level of these decks is insane. But you just know that wizards won't ban till april because the deck is full of OGW cards...
Thank god there's a pro tour for this set. This has made it abundantly clear that the power level of these decks is insane. But you just know that wizards won't ban till april because the deck is full of OGW cards...
The reason they won't ban anything (if they do ban anything) until April is because April is the next banning announcement. It has nothing to do with the deck being full of OGW cards but rather the fact that's the next banning announcement.
These days, some wizards are finding they have a little too much deck left at the end of their $$$.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Thank god there's a pro tour for this set. This has made it abundantly clear that the power level of these decks is insane. But you just know that wizards won't ban till april because the deck is full of OGW cards...
The reason they won't ban anything (if they do ban anything) until April is because April is the next banning announcement. It has nothing to do with the deck being full of OGW cards but rather the fact that's the next banning announcement.
Thank god there's a pro tour for this set. This has made it abundantly clear that the power level of these decks is insane. But you just know that wizards won't ban till april because the deck is full of OGW cards...
The reason they won't ban anything (if they do ban anything) until April is because April is the next banning announcement. It has nothing to do with the deck being full of OGW cards but rather the fact that's the next banning announcement.
Emergency bans have happened before.
Once. And the circumstances that caused that emergency ban aren't present here.
all this was enabled by the bogus bans y'all scream for
keep ruining the format
Twin would get run over by these Eldrazi aggro decks. They were testing it on r/spikes. Eldrazi went 29-11 against Twin, pre and post board games included. Small sample size, but relevant data.
Yeah I dont think anyone that played twin thinks it would have saved the day here. The thing that I as a Twin player am salty about is the bull ***** regarding diversity.
If this is the kind of meta we can expect in a 'exciting diverse meta!!!' then gtfo Wizards and give me back Twin.
This is the disconnect between (parts) of the community and Wizards/Pro's.
They dont care if the format is broken for a tournament, or a certain amount of time. It sells packs, and the pro's dont give a *****, they just move on to the next deck.
Its the people invested in a play style, or deck, or CARD, that suffer for this.
So the commentators are acting like this was normal and cool and the meta will evolve easily, so no biggy, Randy Buehler is just a idiot, because is saying that this modern tournament was one of the best in the last 5 years what a joke lol.
Randy is the primary reason that WOTC Pro Tour coverage is terrible.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Everyone can see that the deck is a huge problem. Why should we let the format suffer for two months until April? Who wants a terrible GP filled with Eldrazi dittos? An emergency ban is the sensible option here for Magic as a spectator sport.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
I've just been staunchly anti banning. If the next GP is all eldrazi, and all of the scg events are all Eldrazi, then an emergency ban will probably be on the table from WOTC's perspective.
This reminds me of week 1 of Jeskai Ascendancy except that that deck turned out to be beatable.
Still, those blue control players deserve a round of applause. UW Restoration, Esper, UWR Kiki (lmao), Jeskai Black (lmao again) is a lot more pleasing than Twin, Twin, Grixis Twin, Tarmo Twin.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I agree that it's necessarily believe it's a "meta call," it's just an extremely powerful deck. 5/5 haste trample on turn 3 is pretty good. Multiple attacking 4/4s on turn 2 is pretty good. Multiple "free" creatures turn 1 with the capability of growing through the game is pretty good. It presents a lot of extremely difficult to deal with threats faster than most decks can deal with effectively. If it's a "meta call" under what circumstances would you NOT want to play the deck? It seems incredibly good against just about everything, barring multiple mulligans and extremely poor draws.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I agree that the meta was better off before, but we can't go back to that. Even if we could, we'd just have Bloom stealing turn 2 wins vs. Eldrazi, or Twin pulling it off like 30% of the time when they don't have a Thought-Knot. The deck would still be way too good.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Eye of ugin is city of traitors while temple is ancient tomb. The issue is that we have no good land hate that is efficient enough to combat those cards. One has to go and it's probably eye. It's a matter of when. (emergency ban or wait til SOI)
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
Eldrazi temple is a fine card independently in the deck, but Eye makes it an aggro deck that can go over the top of control and midrange decks, which is the problem.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
The only argument against banning Eye is that banning it hurts Tron. I would argue that Modern would be a significantly better format if Tron didn't exist and that it would be nice if Wizards sculpted the meta with bans so that it didn't, but you can't call it overpowered right now.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
"Move along, everything is fine, don't worry about Eldrazi."
What do you predict happens the next 4-6 weeks? What deck would prey on Eldrazi that doesn't also lose to the rest of the field of aggro and combo?
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Expect a Temple ban instead of Eye because of the bad PR when little Timmy spends his allowance on packs and opens an expedition Eye that's banned.
MTG finance guy- follow me on Twitter@RichArschmann or RichardArschmann on Reddit
Emergency bans have happened before.
Lol. Seriously WOTC.
#ModernDiversity?
Spirits
keep ruining the format
Twin would get run over by these Eldrazi aggro decks. They were testing it on r/spikes. Eldrazi went 29-11 against Twin, pre and post board games included. Small sample size, but relevant data.
If this is the kind of meta we can expect in a 'exciting diverse meta!!!' then gtfo Wizards and give me back Twin.
Spirits
They dont care if the format is broken for a tournament, or a certain amount of time. It sells packs, and the pro's dont give a *****, they just move on to the next deck.
Its the people invested in a play style, or deck, or CARD, that suffer for this.
Spirits
Randy is the primary reason that WOTC Pro Tour coverage is terrible.