there was this list that,I cant remember if it was in a daily or an article got written about it.I just know I saved the decklist.It seems like it's hard to play any extra colors with it though with forcing all the tron lands in it too.
Creatures (23)
2 Conduit of Ruin
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
2 Oblivion Sower
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (13)
4 Expedition Map
3 Dismember
4 Spatial Contortion
2 All Is Dust
Lands (24)
1 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 All Is Dust
How is that a warning lol? With all due respect, it's an on topic discussion. I'm saying heartless summoning could be a very vaible option if our mana base gets hindered.
How is that a warning lol? With all due respect, it's an on topic discussion. I'm saying heartless summoning could be a very vaible option if our mana base gets hindered.
The forum rules are incredibly clear about this. They are especially important today, given all the banlist discussion in the forums right now. We need threads to stay on-topic, which means prohibiting comments about bans within deck strategy threads. If you want to discuss this further, feel free to PM me, replying to the message that informed you of the warning.
So the big question is how is our MU versus the eldrazi aggro? I feel like we have as good a chance as any, being that we aren't hurt terribly by chalice on two, and we have our own tks to take their smashers, etc. Has anyone tested it? (I run b/g heartless btw, for Stirrings, decay, worldbreaker)
I spent some time Saturday and got in a pair of good tests. We've been having good reports against Aggro and I experienced the same against a basic Naya build:
Vs Naya Aggro 2-1 Game 1
I had T2 Chalice vs. Goblin Guide and Eidelon & won easily at 7 life. His Eidelon cost him more damage than it cost me of course.
Game 2
I played a T1 Heartless with my Spirit Guide. He had a Path to Exile for my opening Conduit of Ruin and cast his creatures to swing for lethal as I tried to assemble my fatties in the battlefield.
Game 3
I open with a Temple and he gives me two more with a pair of early Goblin Guides. I cast a T3 Bane of Bala Ged followed by a Void Winnower locking out his two-costing spells.
I win again with 7 life.
I was then defeated by what seemed like a traditional Tron build, 1-2:
Vs Tron 1-2
Game 1
With a opening hand Urborg and Spirit Guide, I cast T1 Heartless. T2, I play The Eye of Ugin netting 6 Eldrazi Mana and get my Conduit of Ruin, fetching out a Bane.
He destroys my mana and I never draw more, but get him to 4 life before he Ulamogs and takes out Conduit and other land.
Game 2
My sideboard plan includes 5 pieces of land destruction here: 1 Tectonic Edge and 4 Ghost Quarters. I also run the Surgical Extraction in place of the Chalice of the Void, to utterly ruin his Tron plan.
This plan works perfectly as I cast T2 Heatless then destroy consecutive pieces of Tron while waiting for my next Temple to appear, cast Conduit and then Ulamog = GG.
Game 3
This was as close as Game 1, I cast Channeler to force him to activate Oblivion Stone which destroys my Heartless Summoning and Channeler. I have enough mana for Artisan of Kozilek which returns the Channeler presenting 15 damage on an empty battlefield . . . but he of course activates his Eye of Ugin during my end phase to bring out big spaghetti and even though I have enough mana to keep casting fat Eldrazi, he has me to 4 cards in deck and I have to concede.
Thoughts on the Eldrazi Meta:
There will obviously be a Backlash against the hasty Eldrazi meta.
Land Destruction will hurt us so we'll need the Crucible of Worlds or other spell (in monoblack) to help us out.
We may have to add Jund colors for better Land Destruction, lifegain & Life from the Loam.
My current plan is to abandon Heartless and join the colorless Eldrazi Blitz meta.
I used to play Vesuva in my early tests when that monoblack processor list appeared. I call that combination of 4 Eye of Ugin + 4 Eldrazi Temple + 4 Vesuva as 12 Temples. Like the Legacy's 12 Posts. I do think Eldrazi Temple works more like Cloudpost than Tron lands. 12 Posts plays Vesuva to copy Cloudpost and generate more mana etc.
I don't play them anymore because I don't have slots in my deck and now I'm playing that crazy colored version with gods but here are some advice. Not really really sure why you are playing Warping Wail. I can see some uses for it but I would cut them (or any other card you want) to play 3 All is Dust. For me besides all the Eldrazi creature cost reduction I think the main reason or at least an advantage to run Vesuva copying an Eldrazi Temple is because It lets you to reduce All is Dust cost. Against fair decks All is dust will will probably clean board in your favor and pay all the time you spent to play tapped lands. Not only this but probably the best way to remove hate like Blood MoonSpreading Seas after they hit the board at the same time you will remove their creatures.
You had some problems against Tron so I would play sideboard 4 Surgical Extraction even against the non synergy with Chalice of The Void. Against Tron I would remove All is Dust some other removals and side 4 Surgical Extraction + 2-3 Crumble to Dust. You can play Crumble to Dust faster if you ramp with Simian Spirit Guide. The main plain will be to Ghost Quarter a tron piece than Surgical Extraction it. If you do that they will not have enough time to gather 7 lands to start playing something relevant. The same thing works against Colorless Eldrazi aggro but unfortunately they are very fast/resilient so besides that you will need a way to stop them. One way is to buy some time with Darkness and play some board removal like Damnation or "flashback" Kozilek's Return. The problem about holding answers is Thought-Knot Seer the only way to stop It is torpor orb.
The list looks a bit all over the place, which is logical since the build is ambitious.
* I remember I had tried Capsule in a Sultai Pod deck, with Ruins as well (getting back Pod, Metamorph and Wurmcoil). Very bad card in my experience. Way too slow and doesn't hit a few key threats. Double-black to cast and use within the same turn is unlikely.
* Crucible doesn't look like a great MD card. Life from the Loam still looks better to me, and in the SB. Qasali, Decay and Kommand will hurt you badly. You can't search for it with Trinket either. The card is way too reactive.
* Time of Need is bad since you already play Conduit for Uli. I see no single reason to run this card. You better run 2 Kruphix in your main deck.
* If Keranos is in the right colors, I don't think he does anything very useful for you here. If the archetype goes towards a very controlish plan, I may see it as great value though. In terms of ramp, Kruphix is miles above.
* As is, I'm convinced aggros crush your list. Kozilek's Return is the one card that gives you a chance against them. Run 4. In a way your list looks like mine, or like any Jund list I suppose, that's to say we ramp and have a couple silver bullets in our bag. You need disruption against combo and sweepers against aggro. Which means...
*... you need either Thought-Knot Seer or counterspells of some sort (since you run blue).
* Ensnaring Bridge stops your own creatures from attacking, it can be very nonbo at times.
These are of course observations I do without playing your deck myself. Hope it helps.
I'm thinking about dropping Time of Need and probably play one more copy of Kruphix, God of Horizons instead. Not really sure yet because I also think about dropping some Conduit of Ruin and some fatty because I don't like when they stuck in my hand. The problem is that cutting too much high cmc stuff will remove the reason to play too much ramp stuff. I need to do some tests.
I would like to play some Thought-Knot Seer and specially Matter Reshaper but the main reason is slot. Thought-Knot Seer in non heartless lists works like a Thoughtseize + Tarmogoyf but in heartless it will be more like a Thoughtseize + Wild Nacatl. Sure It's not bad and hand disruption are always welcome. Probably if I would play them in my list it would be 2 copies of each.
But I thing I already have in my deck is Havengul Lich. It could sound into another "oh no another colored non eldrazi stuff" but actually it has a interesting synergy without needing to tweak my whole deck. Like the gods costing 5 is bad but It is good for 3. In this deck probably you will have either a Eye of Ugin and Heartless Summoning on the field (soon or later). Havengul Lich will bring back all my army again. For will let me recast Endless One for free or even play some more and bring back Trinket Mage/Oblivion Sower or if I need disruption I can recast Thought-Knot Seer for .
The best thing is that I can respond to a Lightning Bolt with his ability and have an entire turn to cast that target. Other thing is that Havengul Lich's ability will not only work for my stuff I can also steal from opponent's graveyard. Probably that will be the first time someone will cast an Ulamog from the graveyard. One interesting thing is that I can recast an Endless One from my grave paying enough mana to trigger Kozilek's Return from my grave. Other utility is to bring back gods if they were discarded etc.
Talking about gods I would like to suggest you to test at least 1 copy of Xenagos, God of Revels in your jund heartless. Like I said gods are so resilient to remove and Xenagos, God of Revels works at the same turn you cast It. He removes all the drawback from Heartless Summoning and turn anything you play into something lethal. Lets say they had cast an Oblivion Ring in your Xenagos, God of Revels you can play a World Breaker remove Oblivion Ring return Xenagos and attack at the same turn probably with a 8/8 creature.
Anything you play equal or above 7 that triggers Kozilek's Return will turn into a huge damage if you pump and give haste to that creature. Even Endbringer you can give him haste and attack with a 8/8 during your turn and have a blocker during opponent's turn.
there was this list that,I cant remember if it was in a daily or an article got written about it.I just know I saved the decklist.It seems like it's hard to play any extra colors with it though with forcing all the tron lands in it too.
Creatures (23)
2 Conduit of Ruin
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
2 Oblivion Sower
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (13)
4 Expedition Map
3 Dismember
4 Spatial Contortion
2 All Is Dust
Lands (24)
1 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 All Is Dust
Creatures (23)
2 Conduit of Ruin
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
2 Oblivion Sower
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Spells (13)
4 Expedition Map
3 Dismember
4 Spatial Contortion
2 All Is Dust
Lands (24)
1 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 All Is Dust
I feel like using a heartless version with Spellskites and Shriekmaw (maybe SB).
The forum rules are incredibly clear about this. They are especially important today, given all the banlist discussion in the forums right now. We need threads to stay on-topic, which means prohibiting comments about bans within deck strategy threads. If you want to discuss this further, feel free to PM me, replying to the message that informed you of the warning.
I used to play Vesuva in my early tests when that monoblack processor list appeared. I call that combination of 4 Eye of Ugin + 4 Eldrazi Temple + 4 Vesuva as 12 Temples. Like the Legacy's 12 Posts. I do think Eldrazi Temple works more like Cloudpost than Tron lands. 12 Posts plays Vesuva to copy Cloudpost and generate more mana etc.
I don't play them anymore because I don't have slots in my deck and now I'm playing that crazy colored version with gods but here are some advice. Not really really sure why you are playing Warping Wail. I can see some uses for it but I would cut them (or any other card you want) to play 3 All is Dust. For me besides all the Eldrazi creature cost reduction I think the main reason or at least an advantage to run Vesuva copying an Eldrazi Temple is because It lets you to reduce All is Dust cost. Against fair decks All is dust will will probably clean board in your favor and pay all the time you spent to play tapped lands. Not only this but probably the best way to remove hate like Blood Moon Spreading Seas after they hit the board at the same time you will remove their creatures.
Not really sure why you play Underground River maybe for Spellskite? I would play main 4 Ghost Quarter or Sulfurous Springs if you want to play more global removal like Kozilek's Return. Main board Ghost Quarter gives you more game against tron and even other eldrazi.
You had some problems against Tron so I would play sideboard 4 Surgical Extraction even against the non synergy with Chalice of The Void. Against Tron I would remove All is Dust some other removals and side 4 Surgical Extraction + 2-3 Crumble to Dust. You can play Crumble to Dust faster if you ramp with Simian Spirit Guide. The main plain will be to Ghost Quarter a tron piece than Surgical Extraction it. If you do that they will not have enough time to gather 7 lands to start playing something relevant. The same thing works against Colorless Eldrazi aggro but unfortunately they are very fast/resilient so besides that you will need a way to stop them. One way is to buy some time with Darkness and play some board removal like Damnation or "flashback" Kozilek's Return. The problem about holding answers is Thought-Knot Seer the only way to stop It is torpor orb.
I'm thinking about dropping Time of Need and probably play one more copy of Kruphix, God of Horizons instead. Not really sure yet because I also think about dropping some Conduit of Ruin and some fatty because I don't like when they stuck in my hand. The problem is that cutting too much high cmc stuff will remove the reason to play too much ramp stuff. I need to do some tests.
I would like to play some Thought-Knot Seer and specially Matter Reshaper but the main reason is slot. Thought-Knot Seer in non heartless lists works like a Thoughtseize + Tarmogoyf but in heartless it will be more like a Thoughtseize + Wild Nacatl. Sure It's not bad and hand disruption are always welcome. Probably if I would play them in my list it would be 2 copies of each.
I will probably move Crucible of Worlds to sideboard. Some silver bullets of Trinket Mage I need to revisit because I would like to include a Basilisk Collar because it not only helps me recovering some life but turns a useless 1/1 Trinket Mage or even a Matter Reshaper into a better blocker. Basilisk Collar also combines with Endbringer if I decide to cut some fatty and play it.
I thought about playing Matter Reshaper instead of Oblivion Sower but actually I think Oblivion Sower will always be a better 6 drop. I thing I also thought is maybe running few Thought-Knot Seer/Matter Reshaper and complete those gaps with something more versatile like Phyrexian Metamorph. Phyrexian Metamorph under Heartless summoning costs 1 generic and -2 life (if i have 2 heartless it will be only -2 life). The thing is that he can enters as another copy of Thought-Knot Seer/Matter Reshaper/Trinket Mage or even becoming another Pithing Needle etc. At least It's an idea need some tests and slot.
But I thing I already have in my deck is Havengul Lich. It could sound into another "oh no another colored non eldrazi stuff" but actually it has a interesting synergy without needing to tweak my whole deck. Like the gods costing 5 is bad but It is good for 3. In this deck probably you will have either a Eye of Ugin and Heartless Summoning on the field (soon or later). Havengul Lich will bring back all my army again. For will let me recast Endless One for free or even play some more and bring back Trinket Mage/Oblivion Sower or if I need disruption I can recast Thought-Knot Seer for .
The best thing is that I can respond to a Lightning Bolt with his ability and have an entire turn to cast that target. Other thing is that Havengul Lich's ability will not only work for my stuff I can also steal from opponent's graveyard. Probably that will be the first time someone will cast an Ulamog from the graveyard. One interesting thing is that I can recast an Endless One from my grave paying enough mana to trigger Kozilek's Return from my grave. Other utility is to bring back gods if they were discarded etc.
Talking about gods I would like to suggest you to test at least 1 copy of Xenagos, God of Revels in your jund heartless. Like I said gods are so resilient to remove and Xenagos, God of Revels works at the same turn you cast It. He removes all the drawback from Heartless Summoning and turn anything you play into something lethal. Lets say they had cast an Oblivion Ring in your Xenagos, God of Revels you can play a World Breaker remove Oblivion Ring return Xenagos and attack at the same turn probably with a 8/8 creature.
Anything you play equal or above 7 that triggers Kozilek's Return will turn into a huge damage if you pump and give haste to that creature. Even Endbringer you can give him haste and attack with a 8/8 during your turn and have a blocker during opponent's turn.
Have you tried this Tron land deck list.
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Sunken Ruins
2 Wastes
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Underground River
4 Heartless Summoning
Creatures (32)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Mulldrifter
4 Clever Impersonator
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Matter Reshaper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkoUw-ts-w4
vs Mono Blue Tron: