This is very interesting. I'd like to note that this reaffirms to me that these decks are essentially Jund and Junk but in different form. The Red version was probably better suited for most of the meta decks but the white version would beat the red version. The best part (for us that bought in while it was cheap or cheap enough) is that we didn't have to sell the farm for Goyfs, Liliana, Bob and AD (Oh and now fetch lands which many of us are cutting because the Pain lands give us colorless now as well). Sadly I think this is another reason the deck is getting a lot of heat. In speaking with 2 of the local Jund players in my community, they both express frustration that this deck cropped up because of how bad of a matchup it is for them and overall might have ramifications on the value of their respective decks which they didn't think would shrink by all that much. It's interesting to me that he seems to side with the Red Version as being better for those with experience with the deck but I think White has the better cards and with the same amount of experience is better suited for the task ahead. I did like his note that adding Lingering Souls increased his winning percentage from 34% to 70%. Lingering Souls is my favorite card in Modern and I can attest that it has won me WAY too many games. It's just another threat your opponent has to answer and unlike Junk or Esper Gifts or Tokens, we really don't care about flashing them back immediately. Other decks that use them don't want to walk into getting them swept but for us, who cares. If you sweep them, you wont have answers to Blight Herders and Oblivion Sowers. There have been a couple games where I thoughtseized my opponents hand and left them with Path to Exiles and then instead of playing credible threats, I just kept swinging in with Souls until they were forced to kill them. Anyway thanks for the share LordGrimpow it was an interesting read.
After a lot of analysis i still feel like mono black is a beter build than any colored version. More stable and you can do almost everything you need with a good sideboard.
We'll see what happens after OGW but I'm a strong believer in B/R and Mono B going forward, especially as we start getting the mana bases worked out. In my testing with Mono B, Burn doesn't seem to be unwinnable but Affinity is probably just going to be a punt. I also wouldn't rule out Elves making a comeback as it's only bad matchup is going to be Tron as I have not had great results against them.
Also, I agree with his assessment of Infect... my deck hasn't even had all the cards arrive yet and it has been pretty one sided so far. That is a great matchup for Surgical Extraction as you can pretty often 4-for-1 them if you hit Agent with discard or GQ their Inkmoth... that is usually GG. The nut draw is still hard beat but if they don't have it I have had no problems. The salt has been glorious because everyone still thinks it is Tron 2.0 and I've said this a lot now but if you play us like Tron you're gonna have a bad time.
Edit: The reason I think BR could be really good if someone figures out a solid mana base is that it does have access to Kommand and Terminate along with Bolts if you really want to get crazy. In one of these threads, someone posted what was essentially Jund+Eldrazi with Lily, Kommand, Terminate, and Smashers that I thought had a ton of potential. For that matter, I think Lily would be a great addition to all of these builds.
There is a return trigger with, say, Finks in the graveyard, though, using Persist. What is the relevant rule?
[EDIT]: Looks like it is these:
112.3b Activated abilities have a cost and an effect. They are written as “[Cost]: [Effect.] [Activation instructions (if any).]” A player may activate such an ability whenever he or she has priority. Doing so puts it on the stack, where it remains until it’s countered, it resolves, or it otherwise leaves the stack. See rule 602, “Activating Activated Abilities.”
112.3c Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as “[Trigger condition], [effect],” and include (and usually begin with) the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” Whenever the trigger event occurs, the ability is put on the stack the next time a player would receive priority and stays there until it’s countered, it resolves, or it otherwise leaves the stack. See rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities.”
So it's the "then" in Displacer instead of a "when that card enters exile" that makes the difference, if I understand. Damn. How cool would that have been.
Yes since the effect doesn't use "when" it is just an effect, eldrazi displacer does not create a trigger (that would go on the stack and to which you could respond to). The effect only flickers and thats it. I'm pretty sure wizards worded it carefully to avoid such interaction with processors in standard.
To compound on this.. against Merfolk, please do every Eldrazi player a favor and not blink Master of Waves. You will make us all cry.
Ha ha, good point. Also, don't take any Islands exiled with Oblivion Sower .
Wait, have we officially christened Eldrazi Displacer as Mr. Blinky? He totally deserves a good nick name.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Do I really have to be running 4x Eye of Ugin to win tournaments??? In testing online and goldfishing, Eye of Ugin starts to clog up your hand uselessly starting at 3x. I can see maybe a playset of Urborg, but I'm not getting why we wouldn't want to keep drawing lands and doing things with them when its late game.
Do I really have to be running 4x Eye of Ugin to win tournaments??? In testing online and goldfishing, Eye of Ugin starts to clog up your hand uselessly starting at 3x. I can see maybe a playset of Urborg, but I'm not getting why we wouldn't want to keep drawing lands and doing things with them when its late game.
Nothing is set in stone - I run 3x Eye and 2x Urborg and I don't run into any problems. It all depends on how many maps/mindstones you run and which version you're in.
Been testing all colors and so far it has been VERY interesting.
All I can say is if you play a second color it is a complete meta decision.
Green is because of the diverse removal, life gain, and effects against enchantments/artifacts but on creatures aka 187s.
Blue is more of the counterspells and card draw
Red is because of cheap removal, LD, artifact removal.
White is the same as green but comes mostly from spells/enchantments and also add library restrictions like Mindcensor/Arbiter.
Green has been ... better than good. Helps a ton vs the bad matchups.
The God draw so far is t1 Urborg into Thoughtseize, t2 T-Mire into Explore, Drop an Eye and then play another discard spell, t3 E-Temple into Garruk, Untap the Temple and whatever and play a TKS. So you are ending turn 3 with a Garruk, TKS, and played 3 discard spells. B/G has had the most powerful draws so far in testing. You could theoretically play a t4 E-Temple and then use Garruk to cast an Ulamog/Kozilek for the ultimate god draw. /shrug
There are so many ways to go about how to build this deck but I highly suggest you take a look at B/G if your meta is really aggressive. Playing Feed the Clans after a TKS or Reality Smasher is just the best feeling vs burn Trying to test Oath of Nissa because of the relevance of using any mana to cast a planeswalker and the fact all we really want are creatures or lands...
Taking black out of the deck is interesting. The issue with Kozilek's return is that presumably a RG version would be more aggressive than the B/x versions, and wiping out your TKS's and Reality Smashers feels pretty bad. I think losing Strangler, discard spells, and Urborg is not what this deck wants
So I played my Mono-Black Eldrazi for the first time last Tuesday at my LGS' Modern night. I did pretty well, going 2-1, but that 1 losses has had me thinking about our sideboard. I was playing against GW Aura and the guy stomped me handily. I just had no way to interact with his hexproof'd and flying creature. Do we have any good answers in mono-B for dealing with a deck like GW Aura?
True, these both work and are good; but a good Bogles player will play a second creature or hold back a fetch for Dryad Arbor to get around Lili, and All is Dust can be too slow. Skite demands removal from Bogles decks or they can't win, and it comes out super early.
Disruption (IoK, Thoughtseize) is also very good because they often keep one-creature hands, especially if they mull. And don't forget that Daybreak Coronet falls off if there is only one Aura under it, and that gets removed.
Engineered Explosives can also do some work against Bogles. Oblivion Sower can block for a while and is good against Rancor, if they haven't landed protection yet. I feel pretty good about the Bogles matchup actually.
What I'm thinking of running come Friday. Haven't dont much paper testing, just gold fishing and theory crafting based off games I've already played with the older version pre OTG
I have one less Black source than I would like, but I want to keep a little bit of land destruction and also highly value Sea Gate Wreckage in conjunction with lilly and earlier drops. Maybe I can drop a Sea Gate, possibly a waste, but I like having access to two colorless sources if I get Blood Mooned.
With all the new cards and meta choices and moving away from the 8 to 12 Relic. I really just don't like Wasteland Strangler and I think he is too slow in some of the Merfolk, Zoo and Burn matchups cause they tend to play less Fetch lands and if they lead with double creature it is hard to find card to exile if you didn't lead with relic/Hand disruption. I think Thoughtknot seer and matter reshaper are better because they come down earlier, with less requirement both color and processor wise and they have great enter/leave the battlefield effects.
As I promised to post something about my "aggro" Eldrazi deck, here it is. So far, deck has been working out extremely good. Yesterday I've played online trough Xmage about 20+ games. I've played against other Eldrazi decks, some burn, goblin aggro, control, blood moon decks etc.. Against control is really easy, 1st turn Mimic, 2nd turn Thought-Knot Seer. Also against burn, Reshaper does a lot of work, they burn him, i get lucky and reveal another Reshaper
Against Tron is really painful, you just need to have ghost quarter in your opening hand.
Together I've won about +10 games. It's extremely fun to play with this deck. I'll post more in the future days.
langoly
This might be a stupid question, but does your deck have any processors in it?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm currently putting together a somewhat bizarre BGC Heartless Summoning build with Ancient Stirrings, single copies of World Breaker and Oath of Nissa, and possibly even a From Beyond. There is no processing (which sort of disqualifies the deck from this thread, but oh well), so Heartless provides the ramp. With TKS, Llanowar Wastes is often a viable target for Expedition Map. A playset of these untapped tri-lands are an auto-include, I think. The real reason to play green though is certainly Ancient Stirrings. Digging for the Eye or Urborg means we can play 3 and 2 of these lands respectively (as opposed to the playsets many mono-black lists seem to favor). But Stirrings is even better than that--digging for something like All is Dust or Flaying Tendrils out of the board is incredible.
My reasoning for this build is that the mono-black version--though more explosive--sometimes just doesn't draw threats. Ancient Stirrings helps smooth that process, and to make up for the loss of explosiveness we run Heartless Summoning.
Once I finalize the list and pilot it for a few FNMs I'll have to report back!
So how many exile-enablers is the bare minimum? I'm running 5 right now, and planning to go to 6 for the next set of games.
Playing mono black:
I think 4 Relics, 3-4 Thoughtknot-seers and 2 to 3 Warping Wails seems like a good number. Keep you at the 10 exile effects while also making sure 6 to 7 of them actual do something.
If you splash white, 2-3 Relics, 2/3 Thoughtknot-seers and 4 Paths seems like more than enough.
I'm currently putting together a somewhat bizarre BGC Heartless Summoning build with Ancient Stirrings, single copies of World Breaker and Oath of Nissa, and possibly even a From Beyond. There is no processing (which sort of disqualifies the deck from this thread, but oh well), so Heartless provides the ramp. With TKS, Llanowar Wastes is often a viable target for Expedition Map. A playset of these untapped tri-lands are an auto-include, I think. The real reason to play green though is certainly Ancient Stirrings. Digging for the Eye or Urborg means we can play 3 and 2 of these lands respectively (as opposed to the playsets many mono-black lists seem to favor). But Stirrings is even better than that--digging for something like All is Dust or Flaying Tendrils out of the board is incredible.
My reasoning for this build is that the mono-black version--though more explosive--sometimes just doesn't draw threats. Ancient Stirrings helps smooth that process, and to make up for the loss of explosiveness we run Heartless Summoning.
Once I finalize the list and pilot it for a few FNMs I'll have to report back!
Sounds like my deck. That being said I hated Heartless Summoning. Garruk was a far better ramp enabler and provided very fast game close outs with his ult. Can easily Play Garruk, +1, untap 2 lands, play Blight Herder get 3 tokens and then threaten 19 damage the next turn with Garruk's Overrun. That kind of pressure allows the deck to ignore most "late game" big threats besides Ulamog.
You need a correct number of Oath and Stirrings. Too many and you waste turns playing irrelevant spells that impact your opponents hand/clock.
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http://manadeprived.com/return-eldrazi-new-era-modern/
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
This is very interesting. I'd like to note that this reaffirms to me that these decks are essentially Jund and Junk but in different form. The Red version was probably better suited for most of the meta decks but the white version would beat the red version. The best part (for us that bought in while it was cheap or cheap enough) is that we didn't have to sell the farm for Goyfs, Liliana, Bob and AD (Oh and now fetch lands which many of us are cutting because the Pain lands give us colorless now as well). Sadly I think this is another reason the deck is getting a lot of heat. In speaking with 2 of the local Jund players in my community, they both express frustration that this deck cropped up because of how bad of a matchup it is for them and overall might have ramifications on the value of their respective decks which they didn't think would shrink by all that much. It's interesting to me that he seems to side with the Red Version as being better for those with experience with the deck but I think White has the better cards and with the same amount of experience is better suited for the task ahead. I did like his note that adding Lingering Souls increased his winning percentage from 34% to 70%. Lingering Souls is my favorite card in Modern and I can attest that it has won me WAY too many games. It's just another threat your opponent has to answer and unlike Junk or Esper Gifts or Tokens, we really don't care about flashing them back immediately. Other decks that use them don't want to walk into getting them swept but for us, who cares. If you sweep them, you wont have answers to Blight Herders and Oblivion Sowers. There have been a couple games where I thoughtseized my opponents hand and left them with Path to Exiles and then instead of playing credible threats, I just kept swinging in with Souls until they were forced to kill them. Anyway thanks for the share LordGrimpow it was an interesting read.
Why it's bad? We only have 1 legendary creature and we don't care if they chump it.
Also, I agree with his assessment of Infect... my deck hasn't even had all the cards arrive yet and it has been pretty one sided so far. That is a great matchup for Surgical Extraction as you can pretty often 4-for-1 them if you hit Agent with discard or GQ their Inkmoth... that is usually GG. The nut draw is still hard beat but if they don't have it I have had no problems. The salt has been glorious because everyone still thinks it is Tron 2.0 and I've said this a lot now but if you play us like Tron you're gonna have a bad time.
Edit: The reason I think BR could be really good if someone figures out a solid mana base is that it does have access to Kommand and Terminate along with Bolts if you really want to get crazy. In one of these threads, someone posted what was essentially Jund+Eldrazi with Lily, Kommand, Terminate, and Smashers that I thought had a ton of potential. For that matter, I think Lily would be a great addition to all of these builds.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Nothing is set in stone - I run 3x Eye and 2x Urborg and I don't run into any problems. It all depends on how many maps/mindstones you run and which version you're in.
All I can say is if you play a second color it is a complete meta decision.
Green is because of the diverse removal, life gain, and effects against enchantments/artifacts but on creatures aka 187s.
Blue is more of the counterspells and card draw
Red is because of cheap removal, LD, artifact removal.
White is the same as green but comes mostly from spells/enchantments and also add library restrictions like Mindcensor/Arbiter.
Green has been ... better than good. Helps a ton vs the bad matchups.
The God draw so far is t1 Urborg into Thoughtseize, t2 T-Mire into Explore, Drop an Eye and then play another discard spell, t3 E-Temple into Garruk, Untap the Temple and whatever and play a TKS. So you are ending turn 3 with a Garruk, TKS, and played 3 discard spells. B/G has had the most powerful draws so far in testing. You could theoretically play a t4 E-Temple and then use Garruk to cast an Ulamog/Kozilek for the ultimate god draw. /shrug
There are so many ways to go about how to build this deck but I highly suggest you take a look at B/G if your meta is really aggressive. Playing Feed the Clans after a TKS or Reality Smasher is just the best feeling vs burn Trying to test Oath of Nissa because of the relevance of using any mana to cast a planeswalker and the fact all we really want are creatures or lands...
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
Disruption (IoK, Thoughtseize) is also very good because they often keep one-creature hands, especially if they mull. And don't forget that Daybreak Coronet falls off if there is only one Aura under it, and that gets removed.
Engineered Explosives can also do some work against Bogles. Oblivion Sower can block for a while and is good against Rancor, if they haven't landed protection yet. I feel pretty good about the Bogles matchup actually.
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
2 Wastes
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Sea Gate Wreckage
Creature: 17
3 Matter Reshaper
3 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
4 Blight Herder
3 Oblivion Sower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, The Great Distortion
2 Liliana of the Veil
Artifact: 7
4 Relic of Progenitus
3 Expedition Map
Instant: 5
3 Warping Wail
2 Dismember
Sorcery: 5
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
2 Disfigure
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Dragon's Claw
1 Spellskite
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Memoricide
1 Ruin Processor
1 All is Dust
What I'm thinking of running come Friday. Haven't dont much paper testing, just gold fishing and theory crafting based off games I've already played with the older version pre OTG
I have one less Black source than I would like, but I want to keep a little bit of land destruction and also highly value Sea Gate Wreckage in conjunction with lilly and earlier drops. Maybe I can drop a Sea Gate, possibly a waste, but I like having access to two colorless sources if I get Blood Mooned.
With all the new cards and meta choices and moving away from the 8 to 12 Relic. I really just don't like Wasteland Strangler and I think he is too slow in some of the Merfolk, Zoo and Burn matchups cause they tend to play less Fetch lands and if they lead with double creature it is hard to find card to exile if you didn't lead with relic/Hand disruption. I think Thoughtknot seer and matter reshaper are better because they come down earlier, with less requirement both color and processor wise and they have great enter/leave the battlefield effects.
4 delay
4 Syncopate
4 Reality Shift
4 serum visions
4 blight herder
4 oblivion sower
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
1 ulamog, the infinite gyre
3 expedition map
3 relic of progenitus
1 perilous vault
4 eldrazi temple
2 scrying sheets
16 snow-covered island
This might be a stupid question, but does your deck have any processors in it?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
My reasoning for this build is that the mono-black version--though more explosive--sometimes just doesn't draw threats. Ancient Stirrings helps smooth that process, and to make up for the loss of explosiveness we run Heartless Summoning.
Once I finalize the list and pilot it for a few FNMs I'll have to report back!
Modern:
Bant Eldrazi
Merfolk
Abzan Company
EDH:
Mono-Green Omnath
Mono-White Odric Soup
Mono-Blue Muzzio
Mono-Red Feldon
Playing mono black:
I think 4 Relics, 3-4 Thoughtknot-seers and 2 to 3 Warping Wails seems like a good number. Keep you at the 10 exile effects while also making sure 6 to 7 of them actual do something.
If you splash white, 2-3 Relics, 2/3 Thoughtknot-seers and 4 Paths seems like more than enough.
Sounds like my deck. That being said I hated Heartless Summoning. Garruk was a far better ramp enabler and provided very fast game close outs with his ult. Can easily Play Garruk, +1, untap 2 lands, play Blight Herder get 3 tokens and then threaten 19 damage the next turn with Garruk's Overrun. That kind of pressure allows the deck to ignore most "late game" big threats besides Ulamog.
You need a correct number of Oath and Stirrings. Too many and you waste turns playing irrelevant spells that impact your opponents hand/clock.