For those of you dipping more significantly into colorless consider Fetid Heath. It's a triland in our deck, and I've had no mana problems since adding them for 2 Matter Reshaper and 4 thought-knot seer[/card].
Slightly off topic... Are there any pieces you guys would recommend picking up now before they spike? The ship has probably already on TKS, the SOI lands, and IoK. I'm thinking about just picking up most of the B/x painlands now (specifically Caves of Koilos and Sulfurous Springs). Is there anything else you guys can think of? I know this isn't the pricing thread, but I feel it relevant to people maybe finishing off the deck.
On Map: It is nice that it can add consistency, but my testing has found that about 95% of the time I would rather draw/use something else. Every map I draw is a land/removal spell I'm not drawing, and the mana I spend to cast and use map could be mana I spend on souls, stranglers, and discard/removal. For this reason I actually really like Deaddrift's idea of having a couple maps in the side so that you can bring them in against decks you feel you need them against. I understand that the utility and constancy map can provide can be very powerful but so far I have never missed it in my builds.
Some caveats: Map may be better now that we are playing more big eldrazi (TKS/Smasher) that require colorless and our eldrazi-mana early so they can come out ahead of curve. Furthermore, with the banning of Twin and summer bloom, two of the decks that can most consistently kill you early if you don't have constant interaction have been slowed down. This may also mean that the map package is better than it was before.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
On Map: It is nice that it can add consistency, but my testing has found that about 95% of the time I would rather draw/use something else. Every map I draw is a land/removal spell I'm not drawing, and the mana I spend to cast and use map could be mana I spend on souls, stranglers, and discard/removal. For this reason I actually really like Deaddrift's idea of having a couple maps in the side so that you can bring them in against decks you feel you need them against. I understand that the utility and constancy map can provide can be very powerful but so far I have never missed it in my builds.
Some caveats: Map may be better now that we are playing more big eldrazi (TKS/Smasher) that require colorless and our eldrazi-mana early so they can come out ahead of curve. Furthermore, with the banning of Twin and summer bloom, two of the decks that can most consistently kill you early if you don't have constant interaction have been slowed down. This may also mean that the map package is better than it was before.
Jeskai still has the kiki/resto combo so I wouldn't take them off the table just yet, but without twin it's much less likely we run into crazy combos that can murder us early on.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Would you mind sharing your decklist? I'd be interested to see how your manabase is put together and how heavily you're into the new colorless cards.
Click the Black White Eldrazi link in my sig to see what I'm currently running. The main disadvantage is I'm down on maindeck ghost quarters but I'm still tweaking.
Is thoughtseize really necessary in our build? I've been tinkering with playing iok/duress instead since ultimately both of those take the cards we care about. The life loss of ts is not insignificant and I'm not sure the card is that much better than painless options for us. With twin and amulet dead, what does ts take that others can't that matters?
The main matchups where Thoughtseize shines are Tron, Scapeshift, and the mirror. It's also nice for taking Ad Nauseam's namesake card. If you wanted to replace it with duress, you would lose some effectiveness against tron and the mirror and gain some effectiveness against burn. Overall, my pick is Thoughtseize. Also, it goes without saying that duress is pretty awful against creature decks.
I'll be honest, the creature decks that are good are basically only zoo. And thought seize is awful against them. At least Duress let's you take bolt /path/boros charm painlessly.
What card do you take in tron with thought seize that Duress cannot take? Wurmcoil? I feel like that's the worse card they have against us.
I just feel like you guys are over rating thought seize.
Slightly off topic... Are there any pieces you guys would recommend picking up now before they spike? The ship has probably already on TKS, the SOI lands, and IoK. I'm thinking about just picking up most of the B/x painlands now (specifically Caves of Koilos and Sulfurous Springs). Is there anything else you guys can think of? I know this isn't the pricing thread, but I feel it relevant to people maybe finishing off the deck.
More off topic... but sol lands are referencing Sol Ring. SOI (Shadows Over Innistrad) is still coming soon.
Honestly, I think the hardest thing to get for the deck will be the IoKs given the recent spike. Other than that I'm guessing we will see a ton of the Oath cards once release happens, which should bomb the price down a bit on the thought-knot seers. Still, we probably wont see the same low price we had when the preorder launched.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'll be honest, the creature decks that are good are basically only zoo. And thought seize is awful against them. At least Duress let's you take bolt /path/boros charm painlessly.
What card do you take in tron with thought seize that Duress cannot take? Wurmcoil? I feel like that's the worse card they have against us.
I just feel like you guys are over rating thought seize.
I think two copies is the max you want to run in any build as long as you have IoK. Just as a catch-all. Obviously against bad matchups it will go to the board for Duress or some other card.
I've been running a 3/3 split on Thoughtseize and Inquisition, but only because the mirror is a very common matchup in my local meta.
I've been running 4 TS and 1 Inquisition because my payday was the day after Inquisition jumped to like $30 and I said screw it. Honestly it's effect has been VERY minor. It may have even helped me in games against Tron, Scapeshift, Twin and Turns... so there is that.
I've been thinking with the continued rise of this deck and the expected increase of Tron that 4/2 TS/IOK split might be warranted.
It makes our Burn matchup worse which sucks but honestly I just side them out after Game 1 anyway for 2x Duress and 2x Timely Reinforcements. I am willing to settle on having bad matchups that we can make mildly better but some that we can shore up we should.
I just jumped in this tread and i want to know why you guys focus on adding white to this deck. I have a fair amount of success with a mono black list. What does white give you that you want to stick with it so much ?
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Honestly Path is fantastic, Lingering Souls helps against a lot of would be bad matchups by slowing them down and it has some of the best SB cards in modern. That is why I play white.
I dunno, I really like the black sweepers and NoSB in Mono B; they are easy to cast without a lot of mana fixing and usually get the job done. There have been many times in my BW testing that the mana was too awkward to cast spells efficiently. Perhaps the lists have changed a bit since then, but IMO it is going to be rough running essentially three colors especially when the colorless requirement goes into effect. At least until WotC prints a colorless fetch or something.
Hey guys, question for people who have been playing the heartless version. Any thought to myr superion? Seems like it would be pretty decent against the aggro matchups...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH:ShatterStax, Only The Strong Survive
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
Modern:
Bant Eldrazi
Merfolk
Abzan Company
EDH:
Mono-Green Omnath
Mono-White Odric Soup
Mono-Blue Muzzio
Mono-Red Feldon
Some caveats: Map may be better now that we are playing more big eldrazi (TKS/Smasher) that require colorless and our eldrazi-mana early so they can come out ahead of curve. Furthermore, with the banning of Twin and summer bloom, two of the decks that can most consistently kill you early if you don't have constant interaction have been slowed down. This may also mean that the map package is better than it was before.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Jeskai still has the kiki/resto combo so I wouldn't take them off the table just yet, but without twin it's much less likely we run into crazy combos that can murder us early on.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
BFZ was opened into oblivion and O Sower is in a duel deck so unlikely it'll ever stray above 10 to any significant degree.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
Click the Black White Eldrazi link in my sig to see what I'm currently running. The main disadvantage is I'm down on maindeck ghost quarters but I'm still tweaking.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
What card do you take in tron with thought seize that Duress cannot take? Wurmcoil? I feel like that's the worse card they have against us.
I just feel like you guys are over rating thought seize.
Haha, I quite enjoyed that pun even though it seems that it was unintentional
More off topic... but sol lands are referencing Sol Ring. SOI (Shadows Over Innistrad) is still coming soon.
It's funny. My Oblivion Sowers are all Duel Deck versions, and I still forgot it was in a Duel Deck.
Modern:
Bant Eldrazi
Merfolk
Abzan Company
EDH:
Mono-Green Omnath
Mono-White Odric Soup
Mono-Blue Muzzio
Mono-Red Feldon
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern
Value Town
Amulet Titan
Legacy
4C Loam
My Peasant Cube
http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/11667
I've been running 4 TS and 1 Inquisition because my payday was the day after Inquisition jumped to like $30 and I said screw it. Honestly it's effect has been VERY minor. It may have even helped me in games against Tron, Scapeshift, Twin and Turns... so there is that.
Modern: Bogles // 8-Whack/Goblins // UW Titan // Hollow One // Affinity // Dredge
EDH: Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Atraxa, Praetor's Voice // Meren of Clan Nel Toth
It makes our Burn matchup worse which sucks but honestly I just side them out after Game 1 anyway for 2x Duress and 2x Timely Reinforcements. I am willing to settle on having bad matchups that we can make mildly better but some that we can shore up we should.
To add to this:
Vault of the Archangel
Leyline of Sanctity
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Stony Silence as well
Honestly Path is fantastic, Lingering Souls helps against a lot of would be bad matchups by slowing them down and it has some of the best SB cards in modern. That is why I play white.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir Mono-U Control
Ob Nixilis of the Black Oath
Sen Triplets
Mizzix of the Izmagnus
Derevi Stax
VolThrun
Marchesa, The Black Rose
Olivia Voldaren, Vampire Tribal
Modern: Fish, JUND/Junk
--------
RIP Twin