How have people been liking Warping Wail in testing? It's been pretty so-so for me in basically every shell I've put it in.
The Exile mode has generally been good, but not as reliable as I thought it would be, particularly against decks that we struggle against the most. It really feels difficult to time it versus Infect, especially on the draw. Versus Affinity, Arcbound Ravager seems to render it useless. And so on. But it is generally pretty good
The counterspell mode has been the most disappointing since we tap out a lot; if we leave 1<> up versus Scapeshift or Bloom, good players just figure out what's going on and just sit back and wait. Scapeshift can wait for counter backup and Bloom can just go for the natural Titan, for example.
Finally, the Scion mode has been good but not great. It's a nice early way to protect against Liliana, and sometimes you're one mana short, and end-step Wail feels like Lotus Petal, which is insane. But spending two mana and a card on a chump blocker when an actual hard removal spell would have been better is a little sad.
I'm starting to feel like it could go either way, and is not the slam dunk include I thought it was before.
I think it's one of the moderately good "charms", in that they are a sideboard card that looks like it could be main board because of the different modes. That and the fact everyone is looking at Bx Eldrazi at the moment means they probably know about and are predicting we are using the card, so it's going to throw some games off due to the decks own popularity.
Really, if a blue player leaves land untapped they could have a number of different things planned during our turn. If a Bx Eldrazi player leaves land untapped we have maybe one or two cards that we actually can play on their turn. I'll have to try Warping Wail in my build since I'm running Funeral Charm, which can also be cast on an opponents turn.
I think it also depends on the variant you are running.. Since I run the BW version, there are many times when I leave open mana for Path or to be able to crack Relic if I need to. There are only a few cards but they have to guess as to which cards it will be. I agree that it doesn't exactly help some of our matchups (like Scapeshift since they always have counter backup anyway) but it's at least an option to interact.
The drownyard seems interesting, actually. But it's really intended for the long game. Was that worth your while?
I don't really think that 1UB is a long game cost. I am not doing it to mill them out for a win, it is in the deck as sort of a relief valve if you don't have Ashiok in play and need processor fuel. In other builds I had points in the game when I had a Relic or a bojuka bog in hand but the opponent had played really tight and the grave was empty. A little mill does the trick. Since I put it in I have only run into such a situation a couple of times and it worked well. Additionally it taps for C which means that when I start testing UBC it will be a colorless source.
[/quote]The conduit feels like it's something you can absolutely cut.[/quote]
If I dropped Conduit it would be for another Ulamog, but another tutor really helps.
I've created a discussion thread for mono black processor variant.
That's what I thought this thread was for. I know that discussion has gone off the rails, but once everything settles and things like color splashes break off, this thread is where mono-black processor talk started.
Serum visions is really helping me alot with the inconsitency of this deck, it sorta brings the whole deck together. It might not belong in the perfect opening sequence, but it helps with everything else.
You hit the nail on the head for me- I really hate having it in my opening hand because often I don't have the U to cast it. That said the Scry has a lot of value for shaping plays. If I felt better about dropping a tapped land I would try out a singleton Temple of Deceit in the land base, but it seems like a lot of the game I don't. Bog comes into play tapped, but it's CIP effect is just not quite potent enough. I might swap Visions back and test them again eventually.
1. Has anyone tried herrald of kozilek? I am a big fan of Nightscape Aprentise back in Invasion/Odesy standar. He passes the bolt test, and he plays nice with the one cost artifacts.
2. Har anyone tryed a rainbow version of the deck, all 5 colours? I am picturing tenzo ice bridge, Chromatic Star, Crumbling Vestige perhaps even Prophetic Prism to give us all all rainbow colours.
Red for Lightning Bolt, White for Path to Exile, Blue for Ashion, Nightmare Weaver, Green for Sylvan scrying and the rest of the deck exile effects, discard and eldrazies.
Any thoughts or experiences?
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
what about to supplement the exile effects of relic of progenitor, instead of the claws theres something like pyxis of pandemonium. its a 1 drop, exiles right away, you might not know what you're returning to graveyard because the cards are face down, but the deck can make a lot of mana and its much in your favour if you use the second ability since you can remove the cards from the other persons pile.
1. Has anyone tried herrald of kozilek? I am a big fan of Nightscape Aprentise back in Invasion/Odesy standar. He passes the bolt test, and he plays nice with the one cost artifacts.
2. Har anyone tryed a rainbow version of the deck, all 5 colours? I am picturing tenzo ice bridge, Chromatic Star, Crumbling Vestige perhaps even Prophetic Prism to give us all all rainbow colours.
Red for Lightning Bolt, White for Path to Exile, Blue for Ashion, Nightmare Weaver, Green for Sylvan scrying and the rest of the deck exile effects, discard and eldrazies.
Any thoughts or experiences?
All 6 colors you mean, especially after Oath. I think getting everything fixed just right will be a huge pain, even with lands like tendo ice bridge, the cycling artifacts and artifact fixers.
I think people are too focused on exiling. This deck only needs to get a couple cards into exile to set up strangler and a herder. Pyxis of Pandemonium exiles, but it does it as a mill effect. Ultimately it gets cards into exile, which is good, but it doesn't control the graveyard which is a common source of resources for many modern decks. It also doesn't cantrip which is another problem. I would rather run more Relics or Spell Bombs personally.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
sure, the lack of cantrip would be missed, although it does replace itself at 7 mana, although yes it could be a win more. But how often does a turn 1 relic not have target (honest question i haven't played enough of the deck) pyxis at least has a target every turn from the get go
what about to supplement the exile effects of relic of progenitor, instead of the claws theres something like pyxis of pandemonium. its a 1 drop, exiles right away, you might not know what you're returning to graveyard because the cards are face down, but the deck can make a lot of mana and its much in your favour if you use the second ability since you can remove the cards from the other persons pile.
Ive been running 4 relivs 2 pyxis and so far my playtesting have been inconclusive. It does a very good job at exiling and i have never ran out of cards to process. In fact I have almost felt it exiles more than we can process which have caused me to be reluctant to crack it against tron for example. The 7 mana have also been an issue as I usually have been able to play Ulamog the turn before then and won. I think its a nice backup though. The non-cantrip have been missed though. Good thing about it is that it dodges leyline of sanctity in game 2 and 3.
Im gonna test it some more, my current thoughts is that Im gonna reduce it to a one of and add another graveyard hate stick that cantrips.
You can stop activating it once you've got enough things to process
So far I'm liking a one of for LOTV against a few decks. When we go into top deck mode, she just helps with the lockdown mode against the opponent. The sacrifice effect has been well against Boggles turning the game into Scrabble and followed with a Yahtzee from me.
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Life is a beautiful engineer, yet a brutal scientist.
Quick question, if you chose to process with Wasteland Strangler and hes the only creature on the field does he kill himself?
I ask because I wonder for cards like Delay when you want to process the spell you countered...
So hey, everybody, how come nobody has suggested playing Crypt Ghast in any of these high-CMC Urborg-intensive decks?
Am I the first person to think of this idea?
My guess is because he costs 4 and dies to bolt. It isn't an eldrazi so we can't ramp him out either. By himself, he does very little and really requires urborg to be in play. But even with a bunch of mana, it doesn't mean much unless you have Eye or Ulamog in hand. It might make more sense in the heartless version since it has a lot more ways to tutor up ulamog, not to mention it plays 3-4 copies of it so it is a lot more likely to have it in hand.
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No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Quick question, if you chose to process with Wasteland Strangler and hes the only creature on the field does he kill himself?
I ask because I wonder for cards like Delay when you want to process the spell you countered...
Yup, if you want really want to process something and strangler is the only creature on the field it will be the only target for its own ability.
Oblivion Sower is actually pretty lame now, and doesn't really help if we're behind, too expensive, gets chumped or killed. When ahead it doesn't seem to do much either.
Reality Smasher is just stupid. He turns your opponent's gameplan into "Immediately kill that thing now, or win in 2 turns." Thought-knot Seer is as fantastic as we all expected. He's pretty beefy and exiling their best card makes it hard for your opponent to recover when you've already either disrupted his hand, his creatures, or his graveyard synergies. Blight Herder Is still strong, though he doesn't seem as good next to the two guys posted above. Herder still goes wide and turns your opponent's attention at him. I haven't casted him yet without processing, never wanted a vanilla 4/5. Warping Wail Has been fine as a 2 of. It's killed Jaces, Dark Confidants, Splinter Twin targets, Monastery Mentor, Glistener Elf...It's also countered Thoughtseize efects, a Damnation, Serum Visions & Unburial Rites.
Went down to 1 Wasteland Strangler because he's too often left without any processing. With no Path to Exile's, and TKS comes down late, I just turned Strangler into removal spells. Might hurt aggro matchup, but I don't think clunky draws are helped when you're going the extra step to get a process for him. He was often a vanilla 3/2.
1 of Endless One has been fine. Guy is so huge for whatever your mana is on the board, often ends up as a 5/5 or 6/6 and is just filler on the curve. Hard for opponent to predict him, but easy for us to shove him in when we miss processing for Blight Herders, or just want a random on curve threat.
I've yet to cast Kozilek, sure he's good but I just haven't had a game get there yet.
Certainly wouldn't mind adding some lifegain. Thought about Whip of Erebos in the board over a Ruin Processor.
All I want to do with this deck is cast the 4 & 5 drops. The processing sure is extra work and I'm not sure it's worth it for like 4 Blight Herders, but that main deck graveyard hate is backbreaking for the Blue decks and Tarmogoyf decks. Discard + removal into stupid 4/5 drops has been good enough to win most games. Long games are lacking Lingering Souls but still have a bunch of mid range power drops.
I would really like to test Matter Reshaper because he's a cheap proactive threat that can provide card advantage.
I know we're not the Heartless Summoning variant, or big on Mind Stones yet, but something that fits the turn 2-3 curve and can cycle later on, as well as provide colorless mana seems kinda sweet. Maybe in Sower's spot.
Haven't tested Liliana, and she might just be the card to help the burn/infect matches, not really sure.
Quick question, if you chose to process with Wasteland Strangler and hes the only creature on the field does he kill himself?
I ask because I wonder for cards like Delay when you want to process the spell you countered...
Actually when you put the ability on the stack you have to choose a target already. It's just that the "may" clause lets you choose whether or not you want to process. But if it's the only, one, you'll need to target your strangler anyway even if you don't want to process.
I want to share the list I've been testing with on Xmage, where the spoiled cards are now available to be played.
This new B/<> version has been very strong.
Oblivion Sower is actually pretty lame now, and doesn't really help if we're behind, too expensive, gets chumped or killed. When ahead it doesn't seem to do much either.
Reality Smasher is just stupid. He turns your opponent's gameplan into "Immediately kill that thing now, or win in 2 turns." Thought-knot Seer is as fantastic as we all expected. He's pretty beefy and exiling their best card makes it hard for your opponent to recover when you've already either disrupted his hand, his creatures, or his graveyard synergies. Blight Herder Is still strong, though he doesn't seem as good next to the two guys posted above. Herder still goes wide and turns your opponent's attention at him. I haven't casted him yet without processing, never wanted a vanilla 4/5. Warping Wail Has been fine as a 2 of. It's killed Jaces, Dark Confidants, Splinter Twin targets, Monastery Mentor, Glistener Elf...It's also countered Thoughtseize efects, a Damnation, Serum Visions & Unburial Rites.
Went down to 1 Wasteland Strangler because he's too often left without any processing. With no Path to Exile's, and TKS comes down late, I just turned Strangler into removal spells. Might hurt aggro matchup, but I don't think clunky draws are helped when you're going the extra step to get a process for him. He was often a vanilla 3/2.
1 of Endless One has been fine. Guy is so huge for whatever your mana is on the board, often ends up as a 5/5 or 6/6 and is just filler on the curve. Hard for opponent to predict him, but easy for us to shove him in when we miss processing for Blight Herders, or just want a random on curve threat.
I've yet to cast Kozilek, sure he's good but I just haven't had a game get there yet.
Certainly wouldn't mind adding some lifegain. Thought about Whip of Erebos in the board over a Ruin Processor.
All I want to do with this deck is cast the 4 & 5 drops. The processing sure is extra work and I'm not sure it's worth it for like 4 Blight Herders, but that main deck graveyard hate is backbreaking for the Blue decks and Tarmogoyf decks. Discard + removal into stupid 4/5 drops has been good enough to win most games. Long games are lacking Lingering Souls but still have a bunch of mid range power drops.
I would really like to test Matter Reshaper because he's a cheap proactive threat that can provide card advantage.
I know we're not the Heartless Summoning variant, or big on Mind Stones yet, but something that fits the turn 2-3 curve and can cycle later on, as well as provide colorless mana seems kinda sweet. Maybe in Sower's spot.
Haven't tested Liliana, and she might just be the card to help the burn/infect matches, not really sure.
Great info. Souls is a card I would like to see in the list if possible. It might be a recent trend, but they have won me so many games and are a main way to get around Lily. I find it interesting that you think Sower felt so much worse. Is that against a general variety of deck? Against the mirror I have found first sower wins ~75% of the time, and it is the first card I name with memoricide. Or do you feel that TKS and Smasher just make the deck move so much faster?
If we take souls out of the deck, do you think it would still be worth running path? for a white splash and to make the SB better? Just some thoughts.
Have people given up on BR<>? I don't see an individual thread for it but it seems to me that it could end up being the best version. For one it has one of the best removal spells in the game with Bolt and it can run the best sweepers in Wrath/Pyroclasm. If the build is moving away from heavy processing and more towards just discard/aggro and some GY hate with Ulamog as "plan B" would that not solve some of the aggro issues while also keeping our good BGx/midrange matchup intact? Plus Blood Moon would do even less as we could go over the top with Bolts.
I haven't done any testing on this at all but with the proper manabase (see the BW thread for some ideas) it seems that it could keep up with aggro lists while still providing headaches for our plus matchups.
...As i understand it you can pay for the 'kicker' of bearer with silence with eldrazi temple (say play him eldrazi temple and 2 swamps) but eye of ugin just gives discount on his own body, not the 'kicker'. Still that usually makes him a gatekeeper of malakir for 3 lands tapped, not a bad deal.
Unfortunately not, his ability is not "kicker". Its a triggered ability that neither Eye of Ugin nor Eldrazi Temple (atleast the second ability) can pay for.
I think it also depends on the variant you are running.. Since I run the BW version, there are many times when I leave open mana for Path or to be able to crack Relic if I need to. There are only a few cards but they have to guess as to which cards it will be. I agree that it doesn't exactly help some of our matchups (like Scapeshift since they always have counter backup anyway) but it's at least an option to interact.
I don't really think that 1UB is a long game cost. I am not doing it to mill them out for a win, it is in the deck as sort of a relief valve if you don't have Ashiok in play and need processor fuel. In other builds I had points in the game when I had a Relic or a bojuka bog in hand but the opponent had played really tight and the grave was empty. A little mill does the trick. Since I put it in I have only run into such a situation a couple of times and it worked well. Additionally it taps for C which means that when I start testing UBC it will be a colorless source.
[/quote]The conduit feels like it's something you can absolutely cut.[/quote]
If I dropped Conduit it would be for another Ulamog, but another tutor really helps.
That's what I thought this thread was for. I know that discussion has gone off the rails, but once everything settles and things like color splashes break off, this thread is where mono-black processor talk started.
You hit the nail on the head for me- I really hate having it in my opening hand because often I don't have the U to cast it. That said the Scry has a lot of value for shaping plays. If I felt better about dropping a tapped land I would try out a singleton Temple of Deceit in the land base, but it seems like a lot of the game I don't. Bog comes into play tapped, but it's CIP effect is just not quite potent enough. I might swap Visions back and test them again eventually.
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1. Has anyone tried herrald of kozilek? I am a big fan of Nightscape Aprentise back in Invasion/Odesy standar. He passes the bolt test, and he plays nice with the one cost artifacts.
2. Har anyone tryed a rainbow version of the deck, all 5 colours? I am picturing tenzo ice bridge, Chromatic Star, Crumbling Vestige perhaps even Prophetic Prism to give us all all rainbow colours.
Red for Lightning Bolt, White for Path to Exile, Blue for Ashion, Nightmare Weaver, Green for Sylvan scrying and the rest of the deck exile effects, discard and eldrazies.
Any thoughts or experiences?
All 6 colors you mean, especially after Oath. I think getting everything fixed just right will be a huge pain, even with lands like tendo ice bridge, the cycling artifacts and artifact fixers.
I think people are too focused on exiling. This deck only needs to get a couple cards into exile to set up strangler and a herder. Pyxis of Pandemonium exiles, but it does it as a mill effect. Ultimately it gets cards into exile, which is good, but it doesn't control the graveyard which is a common source of resources for many modern decks. It also doesn't cantrip which is another problem. I would rather run more Relics or Spell Bombs personally.
You can stop activating it once you've got enough things to process
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
I ask because I wonder for cards like Delay when you want to process the spell you countered...
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Am I the first person to think of this idea?
My guess is because he costs 4 and dies to bolt. It isn't an eldrazi so we can't ramp him out either. By himself, he does very little and really requires urborg to be in play. But even with a bunch of mana, it doesn't mean much unless you have Eye or Ulamog in hand. It might make more sense in the heartless version since it has a lot more ways to tutor up ulamog, not to mention it plays 3-4 copies of it so it is a lot more likely to have it in hand.
Awesome user name btw.
Thank you. I get that a lot actually
Yup, if you want really want to process something and strangler is the only creature on the field it will be the only target for its own ability.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/361790#online
2x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Eye of Ugin
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Radiant Fountain
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
6x Swamp
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creature (18)
4x Blight Herder
1x Endless One
1x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2x Oblivion Sower
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1x Wasteland Strangler
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Thoughtseize
1x Dismember
2x Go for the Throat
1x Slaughter Pact
2x Warping Wail
Processing/Cantrips (6)
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Scrabbling Claws
1x All Is Dust
2x Disfigure
2x Dismember
1x Duress
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Ruin Processor
2x Spellskite
2x Surgical Extraction
This was my previous deck (BW Eldrazi) http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/orzhov-eldrazi-modern/
This new B/<> version has been very strong.
Oblivion Sower is actually pretty lame now, and doesn't really help if we're behind, too expensive, gets chumped or killed. When ahead it doesn't seem to do much either.
Reality Smasher is just stupid. He turns your opponent's gameplan into "Immediately kill that thing now, or win in 2 turns."
Thought-knot Seer is as fantastic as we all expected. He's pretty beefy and exiling their best card makes it hard for your opponent to recover when you've already either disrupted his hand, his creatures, or his graveyard synergies.
Blight Herder Is still strong, though he doesn't seem as good next to the two guys posted above. Herder still goes wide and turns your opponent's attention at him. I haven't casted him yet without processing, never wanted a vanilla 4/5.
Warping Wail Has been fine as a 2 of. It's killed Jaces, Dark Confidants, Splinter Twin targets, Monastery Mentor, Glistener Elf...It's also countered Thoughtseize efects, a Damnation, Serum Visions & Unburial Rites.
Went down to 1 Wasteland Strangler because he's too often left without any processing. With no Path to Exile's, and TKS comes down late, I just turned Strangler into removal spells. Might hurt aggro matchup, but I don't think clunky draws are helped when you're going the extra step to get a process for him. He was often a vanilla 3/2.
1 of Endless One has been fine. Guy is so huge for whatever your mana is on the board, often ends up as a 5/5 or 6/6 and is just filler on the curve. Hard for opponent to predict him, but easy for us to shove him in when we miss processing for Blight Herders, or just want a random on curve threat.
I've yet to cast Kozilek, sure he's good but I just haven't had a game get there yet.
Certainly wouldn't mind adding some lifegain. Thought about Whip of Erebos in the board over a Ruin Processor.
All I want to do with this deck is cast the 4 & 5 drops. The processing sure is extra work and I'm not sure it's worth it for like 4 Blight Herders, but that main deck graveyard hate is backbreaking for the Blue decks and Tarmogoyf decks. Discard + removal into stupid 4/5 drops has been good enough to win most games. Long games are lacking Lingering Souls but still have a bunch of mid range power drops.
I would really like to test Matter Reshaper because he's a cheap proactive threat that can provide card advantage.
I know we're not the Heartless Summoning variant, or big on Mind Stones yet, but something that fits the turn 2-3 curve and can cycle later on, as well as provide colorless mana seems kinda sweet. Maybe in Sower's spot.
Haven't tested Liliana, and she might just be the card to help the burn/infect matches, not really sure.
Actually when you put the ability on the stack you have to choose a target already. It's just that the "may" clause lets you choose whether or not you want to process. But if it's the only, one, you'll need to target your strangler anyway even if you don't want to process.
Great info. Souls is a card I would like to see in the list if possible. It might be a recent trend, but they have won me so many games and are a main way to get around Lily. I find it interesting that you think Sower felt so much worse. Is that against a general variety of deck? Against the mirror I have found first sower wins ~75% of the time, and it is the first card I name with memoricide. Or do you feel that TKS and Smasher just make the deck move so much faster?
If we take souls out of the deck, do you think it would still be worth running path? for a white splash and to make the SB better? Just some thoughts.
Cavern of Souls, Tendo Ice Bridge. Hopefully in future sets they will flesh out colorless mana sources.
I haven't done any testing on this at all but with the proper manabase (see the BW thread for some ideas) it seems that it could keep up with aggro lists while still providing headaches for our plus matchups.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant