Oblivion Sower is one of the best cards in this deck. I don't think it's correct to run less than 4. If anything, I'd cut Herder before Sower. Sower gives you uncounterable mana ramp regardless of what's in the opponent's graveyard or exile zone. It's unconditional ramp, essentially, with a fat body left over.
I disagree with you there. Herder > Sower IMO, and I have been running 3 Sowers with great success. 4/5 is a smaller body, but with tokens it is a 7/8, which is a massive clock. In addition it can ramp into itself or stall out a board.
That all being said I would be hard pressed to think of a card that would completely drive Sower out of the main. It is an impressive thing when a card like Endbringer is fighting for a spot in the 75 and is not a slam dunk.
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
I have been in 3 sower 4 herder fir a while and its been working for me, but thats as low as im comfortable going. If i play any of the new eldrazi it will be other things coming out
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
I had most of the deck already, so I decided to pick up the few cards I am missing. I only have 1 eye for now. Working on tracking down a 2nd 1. Here is my first pass at a B/W deck.
Stony Silence is the nuts vs. Affinity. EE is great against both. Damnation ($$$) is good vs. Affinity and Merfolk both, but All is Dust only hits the Fish. Languish is a strong option to replace Damnation on the cheap and it leaves our fatties standing while killing most of the format.
Stony Silence is the nuts vs. Affinity. EE is great against both. Damnation ($$$) is good vs. Affinity and Merfolk both, but All is Dust only hits the Fish. Languish is a strong option to replace Damnation on the cheap and it leaves our fatties standing while killing most of the format.
I have 1x stony, really should pick up the 2nd
Is 2x EE, 1x All is dust, AND 1-2x Languish too many sweepers? Or should I drop the Dust for 1-2 x Languish?
What about cards like Vampiric link/Kor firewalker?
Oblivion Sower is one of the best cards in this deck. I don't think it's correct to run less than 4. If anything, I'd cut Herder before Sower. Sower gives you uncounterable mana ramp regardless of what's in the opponent's graveyard or exile zone. It's unconditional ramp, essentially, with a fat body left over.
Thats absolutely false. Ive missed a number of times with sower.
These are the two most obvious adds so far. Kozilek is just broken as hell atm. That being said I think personally I want Ulamog more. You just win games with Ghost Quarter locks and discard far more than resolving a Kozy. ATM Kozy is super powerful but FOR THIS DECK ... SB atm at best. F10drills is just a better Drown in Sorrow since it exiles. Personally I am currently playing 2 Damnation in the SB but they are VERY expensive irl and don't blame you if you can't afford them and just use F10 instead.
So these two are the next in line. So far in testing I have activated Endbringer with Vault active on it. However more often than not it just dies to everything it seems and it's only good once you untap with it ... therefore it's usually just a 5/5 with upside for 3-4 ... meh so far. However Displacer has been insane if they don't have an answer for it. Completely blanks tokens. Taps creatures. Reuses Strangler over and over. He is very good.
As far as Tidehollow Sculler. It's been terrible. The mana can't support him and I would rather just play more Lilianas or Thoughtsieze/Duress. Have never been able to cast him on turn 2 in 20+ games so far with an opening hand on the play.
As far as Tidehollow Sculler. It's been terrible. The mana can't support him and I would rather just play more Lilianas or Thoughtsieze/Duress. Have never been able to cast him on turn 2 in 20+ games so far with an opening hand on the play.
^ This. Sculler puts too much pressure on a mostly C manabase.
I feel like displacer really badly needs an extra point of toughness. I think this deck needs something that works with our cheaty mana base to come down early and block.
I feel like displacer really badly needs an extra point of toughness. I think this deck needs something that works with our cheaty mana base to come down early and block.
Waste land kills something on its way in and then blocks too which is great, but even if stranger gets bolted, most of the time you already got your value. This guy? Has a chance of getting no value. Not saying it's a no go by any stretch, just hoping he isn't sunk in this format because of the bolt test.
Waste land kills something on its way in and then blocks too which is great, but even if stranger gets bolted, most of the time you already got your value. This guy? Has a chance of getting no value. Not saying it's a no go by any stretch, just hoping he isn't sunk in this format because of the bolt test.
Sometimes Strangler would have nothing to process and just come into play as a 3/2, which in turn makes the Displacer outshine Strangler.
Anyways, what do u guys think of the manlands, are they really necessary (2/3 Lifelink is kinda meh and losing a land to removal is pretty ouch) or just acting like another BW source?
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Standard : What is Stand-tart
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Waste land kills something on its way in and then blocks too which is great, but even if stranger gets bolted, most of the time you already got your value. This guy? Has a chance of getting no value. Not saying it's a no go by any stretch, just hoping he isn't sunk in this format because of the bolt test.
Sometimes Strangler would have nothing to process and just come into play as a 3/2, which in turn makes the Displacer outshine Strangler.
Anyways, what do u guys think of the manlands, are they really necessary (2/3 Lifelink is kinda meh and losing a land to removal is pretty ouch) or just acting like another BW source?
This is why most decks I know run 2 Spellskites MD. Most people love 4 Stranglers but ... you can easily make an argument for running 2.
Manlands = bad. Tons of way to remove them and come into play tapped.
With Displacer being printed it makes Endless One crap now MD. Have been testing Endbringer MD and it's been a removal magnet so far. At least with Sower and Herder I get something because of the on cast effect. With EB it's nothing.
With all of the "doesn't pass the bolt test". I would be extremely happy when g1 burn isn't going to my face. Just saying.
All is dust is sweet and has potential to be a cost reduced plague wind but does not hit affinity very well at all. Considering they're a weakish matchup due to some fast draws and dust is slow anyway I've removed from the main and sideboard. Flaying Tendrils isn't perfect either, but comes down quicker against fast decks like affinity, burn, gruul stuff, etc. Against merfolk when they have more than one lord out the card becomes almost totally useless, and in a spot like that damnation would shine. I'm testing two Flaying Tendrils and 2 damnation in my sideboard. Sometimes you just need to blow everything up when you're the slower deck.
Waste land kills something on its way in and then blocks too which is great, but even if stranger gets bolted, most of the time you already got your value. This guy? Has a chance of getting no value. Not saying it's a no go by any stretch, just hoping he isn't sunk in this format because of the bolt test.
Sometimes Strangler would have nothing to process and just come into play as a 3/2, which in turn makes the Displacer outshine Strangler.
Anyways, what do u guys think of the manlands, are they really necessary (2/3 Lifelink is kinda meh and losing a land to removal is pretty ouch) or just acting like another BW source?
So because sometimes strangler comes down and doesn't get immediate value it's somehow worse than something that's always going to come down without producing immediate value? In this format there's little difference between a 3/2 and a 3/3. I agree that displacer is potentially strong if it sticks around but we might not need more late game. We kind of dominate the late game against decks that aren't tron. What the deck needs is another eldrazi to come down early and stop fast decks from eating us up. I'll certainly be testing it but it's not an auto include right now in my opinion.
Also, yes, run the man lands. Always run the man lands. Yeah, our manland kinda sucks when compared to the allied colored ones but it's still worth it.
Planning on adding in Vile Aggregate for a big butt and to help (hopefully) get in some ingest. Think I should replace all of my Stranglers? a Split of 2/2?
As far as Tidehollow Sculler. It's been terrible. The mana can't support him and I would rather just play more Lilianas or Thoughtsieze/Duress. Have never been able to cast him on turn 2 in 20+ games so far with an opening hand on the play.
This surprises me, I've been having great success w/ sculler and have never had a problem casting him on turn 2. It could certainly be a meta issue that's making him seem better for me but would you mind posting your manabase?
Edit: I also feel that if Displacer turns out to be worth a spot Sculler gets even better
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My Decks:
UG Merfolk RG 8-Whack BWG Abzan midrange GRB Living End UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin" RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!" BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Yup, sculler has been horrible for me too. I just tried the white version today and between turning on my opponent's spell snare to not being able to curve him on turn two due to mana, he's been super bad.
I would treat Displacer somewhat like an Dark Confidant. Sure not much value is gained upon it ETB/Casted but if you don't get remove it, It will cause lots of trouble for the opponent's creatures.
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Standard : What is Stand-tart
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
I would treat Displacer somewhat like an Dark Confidant. Sure not much value is gained upon it ETB/Casted but if you don't get remove it, It will cause lots of trouble for the opponent's creatures.
Exactly what I said!
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Current Decks
Modern
No idea because my favorite decks keep getting banned or having the rules changed against them
Oblivion Sower is one of the best cards in this deck. I don't think it's correct to run less than 4. If anything, I'd cut Herder before Sower. Sower gives you uncounterable mana ramp regardless of what's in the opponent's graveyard or exile zone. It's unconditional ramp, essentially, with a fat body left over.
Thats absolutely false. Ive missed a number of times with sower.
^ this, but the time I missed I hit 2 cryptic commands and a few other key cards and it felt so goood...
I disagree with you there. Herder > Sower IMO, and I have been running 3 Sowers with great success. 4/5 is a smaller body, but with tokens it is a 7/8, which is a massive clock. In addition it can ramp into itself or stall out a board.
That all being said I would be hard pressed to think of a card that would completely drive Sower out of the main. It is an impressive thing when a card like Endbringer is fighting for a spot in the 75 and is not a slam dunk.
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
4 Blight Herder
4 Oblivion Sower
2 Spellskite
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Expedition Map
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Godless Shrine
2 Plains
2 Swamp
I bases it on the deck that got 10th this past weekend.
What I am having the most issues with is figuring out a side board. Here is what I have so far:
2 Celestial Purge
2 Disenchant
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Leyline of Sanctity
Locally we have:
Not sure what else to add to the side board to help against decks like affinity and Fish.
I have 1x stony, really should pick up the 2nd
Is 2x EE, 1x All is dust, AND 1-2x Languish too many sweepers? Or should I drop the Dust for 1-2 x Languish?
What about cards like Vampiric link/Kor firewalker?
Thats absolutely false. Ive missed a number of times with sower.
These are the two most obvious adds so far. Kozilek is just broken as hell atm. That being said I think personally I want Ulamog more. You just win games with Ghost Quarter locks and discard far more than resolving a Kozy. ATM Kozy is super powerful but FOR THIS DECK ... SB atm at best. F10drills is just a better Drown in Sorrow since it exiles. Personally I am currently playing 2 Damnation in the SB but they are VERY expensive irl and don't blame you if you can't afford them and just use F10 instead.
So these two are the next in line. So far in testing I have activated Endbringer with Vault active on it. However more often than not it just dies to everything it seems and it's only good once you untap with it ... therefore it's usually just a 5/5 with upside for 3-4 ... meh so far. However Displacer has been insane if they don't have an answer for it. Completely blanks tokens. Taps creatures. Reuses Strangler over and over. He is very good.
As far as Tidehollow Sculler. It's been terrible. The mana can't support him and I would rather just play more Lilianas or Thoughtsieze/Duress. Have never been able to cast him on turn 2 in 20+ games so far with an opening hand on the play.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
DECKS:
MODERN:
BUILT:
WBGJunkWBG
BURGrixis ControlBUR
BUILDING:
BGEldraziBG
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
That doesn't stop people from running Wasteland Strangler =)
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
Displacer will displace?! Endless One from the main.
The question I have is what to do with the board and sweepers. I am going BW, so Flaying Tendrils vs Zealous Persecution vs All is Dust.
Sometimes Strangler would have nothing to process and just come into play as a 3/2, which in turn makes the Displacer outshine Strangler.
Anyways, what do u guys think of the manlands, are they really necessary (2/3 Lifelink is kinda meh and losing a land to removal is pretty ouch) or just acting like another BW source?
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
This is why most decks I know run 2 Spellskites MD. Most people love 4 Stranglers but ... you can easily make an argument for running 2.
Manlands = bad. Tons of way to remove them and come into play tapped.
With Displacer being printed it makes Endless One crap now MD. Have been testing Endbringer MD and it's been a removal magnet so far. At least with Sower and Herder I get something because of the on cast effect. With EB it's nothing.
With all of the "doesn't pass the bolt test". I would be extremely happy when g1 burn isn't going to my face. Just saying.
All is dust is sweet and has potential to be a cost reduced plague wind but does not hit affinity very well at all. Considering they're a weakish matchup due to some fast draws and dust is slow anyway I've removed from the main and sideboard. Flaying Tendrils isn't perfect either, but comes down quicker against fast decks like affinity, burn, gruul stuff, etc. Against merfolk when they have more than one lord out the card becomes almost totally useless, and in a spot like that damnation would shine. I'm testing two Flaying Tendrils and 2 damnation in my sideboard. Sometimes you just need to blow everything up when you're the slower deck.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
So because sometimes strangler comes down and doesn't get immediate value it's somehow worse than something that's always going to come down without producing immediate value? In this format there's little difference between a 3/2 and a 3/3. I agree that displacer is potentially strong if it sticks around but we might not need more late game. We kind of dominate the late game against decks that aren't tron. What the deck needs is another eldrazi to come down early and stop fast decks from eating us up. I'll certainly be testing it but it's not an auto include right now in my opinion.
Also, yes, run the man lands. Always run the man lands. Yeah, our manland kinda sucks when compared to the allied colored ones but it's still worth it.
~Modern~
BGURWhiteless Death's ShadowRUGB
GWRUSaheeli BlinkURWG
RGBUGood Ole' DredgeUBGR
~Commander~
URWNarset, Enlightened Time-TravelerWRU
UBRWBreya, Etherium ArchitectWRBU
A Prolific Loser To Blood Moon
This surprises me, I've been having great success w/ sculler and have never had a problem casting him on turn 2. It could certainly be a meta issue that's making him seem better for me but would you mind posting your manabase?
Edit: I also feel that if Displacer turns out to be worth a spot Sculler gets even better
RG 8-Whack
BWG Abzan midrange
GRB Living End
UWB Spirit Control
GU Kruphix's "Hug Assassin"
RW Kalemne's "Play Fatties and Hope for the Best!"
BUGW Atraxa's "All counters, all the time"
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
Exactly what I said!
^ this, but the time I missed I hit 2 cryptic commands and a few other key cards and it felt so goood...
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU