Jeskai Nahiri beats Esper Control (Ali Aintrazi, former Invitational winner) on camera. Although the match doesn't matter much or have too many Modern implications, I feel that it's a sign that essentially "Counterburn" with 4 PWs can beat a "pure control deck." I should say as pure as it gets right now. I was considering playing an Esper list next FNM that I saw great Control player Guillaume Wafo-Tapa go 5-0 on an online league, but this kind of scares me away.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Matthias Hunt and Ryan Overturf seems to not really have a clue about modern. Their comments are waaaay off most of the time, they don't really know the metagame outside of standard expected comments and their play by play is kind of meeeh; not always mentioning the best plays, questioning correct plays based on bad assumptions etc.
Jeskai Nahiri beats Esper Control (Ali Aintrazi, former Invitational winner) on camera. Although the match doesn't matter much or have too many Modern implications, I feel that it's a sign that essentially "Counterburn" with 4 PWs can beat a "pure control deck." I should say as pure as it gets right now. I was considering playing an Esper list next FNM that I saw great Control player Guillaume Wafo-Tapa go 5-0 on an online league, but this kind of scares me away.
It played out exactly as my experience was. Long, drawn out, and no time for a game 3. Even Emrakul didn't win the game on the spot.
The following match of Bogles vs Dredge was wonderfully bland as two players play at each other rather than with each other.
I like their commentary. I've not seen any announcers that are able to avoid errors in their on-the-fly analysis to a notable degree more than Ryan and Matthias. They are entertaining enough.
Kinda disappointed to see Eli Kassis move away from his build of Knightfall that won the SCG classic ~3 weeks ago.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
The following match of Bogles vs Dredge was wonderfully bland as two players play at each other rather than with each other.
What a "healthy" format.
I admit it's not the most fun, but I actually enjoyed finally seeing Bogles on camera. I think it was only the 2nd Bogles deck on camera since Reid Duke in Worlds? or Pro Tour?
I think Todd Anderson hoped to dodge 4 Rancor/3 Spirit Mantle in the first game, but it's a tough task when there is a Kor Spiritdancer in play. I have literally had some disgusting Kor Spiritdancers in my time, mostly when I know my opponent doesn't have Path to Exile or Vapor Snag/Cryptic Command.
Dredge is so boring to watch and they show us match of Dredge vs Bogles... Only control mirror is more boring.
It's subjective. I actually find the Control mirror very fun to watch in person, but less fun on screen because you can't really see all the nuances of the players. I will admit that Bogles vs. Dredge is really "2 ships passing in the night," but I like to watch it regardless. It's nice to see other Boglers out there. I like how the Bogle player changed the order of what he was going to play in the last game by doing the Bogle first, then the Aura. It's not a big deal and most players would probably do the same, but it was still nice to see careful playing in a game in which he probably was 99% to win regardless of the play. I know I can get a little sloppy if I am miles ahead of my opponent and their out is literally my misplay and 3 top decks in a row.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Jeskai Nahiri beats Esper Control (Ali Aintrazi, former Invitational winner) on camera. Although the match doesn't matter much or have too many Modern implications, I feel that it's a sign that essentially "Counterburn" with 4 PWs can beat a "pure control deck." I should say as pure as it gets right now. I was considering playing an Esper list next FNM that I saw great Control player Guillaume Wafo-Tapa go 5-0 on an online league, but this kind of scares me away.
It played out exactly as my experience was. Long, drawn out, and no time for a game 3. Even Emrakul didn't win the game on the spot.
The following match of Bogles vs Dredge was wonderfully bland as two players play at each other rather than with each other.
What a "healthy" format.
I don't understand posts like this. You don't like control vs. control, you dont like fast matchups, you don't like certain kind of control decks, and you don't seem to like the format. It's just not a very constructive way too discuss an event or Modern. If you really dislike all those aspects, and I really don't mean this in an aggressive way, I'm really not sure this is the format for you or that there is any format which would fit your preferences.
Jeskai Nahiri beats Esper Control (Ali Aintrazi, former Invitational winner) on camera. Although the match doesn't matter much or have too many Modern implications, I feel that it's a sign that essentially "Counterburn" with 4 PWs can beat a "pure control deck." I should say as pure as it gets right now. I was considering playing an Esper list next FNM that I saw great Control player Guillaume Wafo-Tapa go 5-0 on an online league, but this kind of scares me away.
It played out exactly as my experience was. Long, drawn out, and no time for a game 3. Even Emrakul didn't win the game on the spot.
The following match of Bogles vs Dredge was wonderfully bland as two players play at each other rather than with each other.
What a "healthy" format.
I don't understand posts like this. You don't like control vs. control, you dont like fast matchups, you don't like certain kind of control decks, and you don't seem to like the format. It's just not a very constructive way too discuss an event or Modern. If you really dislike all those aspects, and I really don't mean this in an aggressive way, I'm really not sure this is the format for you or that there is any format which would fit your preferences.
I love control decks, so long as they can actually win games in a timely manner. The reason why "control" decks in Modern are terrible is the lack of ability to close out games. That match perfectly illustrated that even with a massive advantage, Jeskai barely completed 2 games within 50 minutes, even with resolved and ultimated Nahiris. The reason I liked Twin was it was a control deck that can win (or lose) on the spot. You take soft control and you win. Not take control, durdle around for another 10-20 turns and then maybe, most likely win, but then have no time left for a proper game 3.
I don't mind fast matchups, I'm just drawing attention to the observation everyone has about "two ships passing in the night," a quote even used by the commentators during that match. 75% of Tier 1 currently comprises of decks that "pass each other in the night." If that's the format Wizards wants, then they must be thrilled. I personally want games where players have to acknowledge their opponents' existence.
It's true that this may not be the format for me, but I don't have the money (nor does the format have enough support locally) to play Legacy Grixis Delver, and Standard has been pretty awful for more than a year. Format seems better now, but we're also <2 mo. away from a rotation, resetting everything. Kind of a bad time to buy in and play. Modern is all I can play in terms of investing in without fear of rotation (lol just fear of bans), and it has massive local support with multiple FNM style events a week at multiple locations. And for the most part, I like and enjoy the decks I play. But in the last several months, Modern has taken a back seat to Commander, which is currently my favorite format by a considerable margin.
Jeskai Nahiri beats Esper Control (Ali Aintrazi, former Invitational winner) on camera. Although the match doesn't matter much or have too many Modern implications, I feel that it's a sign that essentially "Counterburn" with 4 PWs can beat a "pure control deck." I should say as pure as it gets right now. I was considering playing an Esper list next FNM that I saw great Control player Guillaume Wafo-Tapa go 5-0 on an online league, but this kind of scares me away.
It played out exactly as my experience was. Long, drawn out, and no time for a game 3. Even Emrakul didn't win the game on the spot.
The following match of Bogles vs Dredge was wonderfully bland as two players play at each other rather than with each other.
What a "healthy" format.
I don't understand posts like this. You don't like control vs. control, you dont like fast matchups, you don't like certain kind of control decks, and you don't seem to like the format. It's just not a very constructive way too discuss an event or Modern. If you really dislike all those aspects, and I really don't mean this in an aggressive way, I'm really not sure this is the format for you or that there is any format which would fit your preferences.
C'mon ktkenshinx don't you enjoy the gripping and insightful commentary cfusionpm provides that is totally not just constant salt and grump over Splinter Twin?
I personally want games where players have to acknowledge their opponents' existence.
You're so off-base it's not even funny. I've seen them all shake hands!
I agree Dredge vs. Bogles is kind of crappy. It's like Belcher vs. Dredge in Legacy, and that's not a matchup I want to see. My major gripe is that we get to see a legit control deck mirror on camera with one established Tier 1 deck against a rising upstart and cfusion still complains about something. At that point, it's hard for me to take the post seriously and it starts to stray into the unconstructive, non-argument territory we've seen in other threads (Where people just complain about Modern issues and aren't contributing to the talk). It's not quite there but it's very borderline.
My only complaint is that I think Ryan is too negative about a lot of people and their deck choice.
I want to second this, he's overly critical and often does not consider that the players playing their decks might take something into consideration that he might have missed. Kind of condescending, not in a mean way, but too confident in his own evaluations. If that makes sense. It gets on my nerves as I've been on the receiving end of that treatment - getting my plays regarded as "incorrect" or "mistakes" by coverage when I know exactly what I'm doing and would do the same again. It's an easy mistake to make when watching someone play, they shouldn't be expected to be experts on every deck, but there is an easy solution to this: Evaluate people's plays less, don't focus as much on whether they're playing "correct" by your views.
Edit: I should add that apart from this, he's doing an excellent job.
Oh well, turn 0 Leyline of the Void is not enough to beat Dredge... lol.
Cage is still the stronger card I believe. It hits Dredge a bit better (prevents Narcomoebas while Leyline doesn't) while also hitting Snapcaster, Nahiri, Chord, CoCo, and more.
Dredge can still beat Cage by hardcasting Golgari Grave-Troll. Honestly I'd rather face Cage than Leyline, but that's because I don't play Steam Vents, which is essential for hardcasting Narcomoeba and Amalgam.
I love those games where Dredge beats a SB hate card. There's something magical about winning with Insolent Neonate beats and hardcasted Grave-Trolls.
Dredge can still beat Cage by hardcasting Golgari Grave-Troll. Honestly I'd rather face Cage than Leyline, but that's because I don't play Steam Vents, which is essential for hardcasting Narcomoeba and Amalgam.
I love those games where Dredge beats a SB hate card. There's something magical about winning with Insolent Neonate beats and hardcasted Grave-Trolls.
Oh certainly. I'm not saying Cage is unbeatable. And I'm sure a Dredge deck packs removal for either option in the side for games 2 and 3. But given all the applications in the meta, and the slight differences in how Cage and Leyline operate against Dredge, I'd prefer Cage overall.
Dredge can still beat Cage by hardcasting Golgari Grave-Troll. Honestly I'd rather face Cage than Leyline, but that's because I don't play Steam Vents, which is essential for hardcasting Narcomoeba and Amalgam.
I love those games where Dredge beats a SB hate card. There's something magical about winning with Insolent Neonate beats and hardcasted Grave-Trolls.
I'd rather see Dredge casting a huge fatty fair and on the stack rather than doing dumb recursive things that may or may not include BfB-Gargadon chicanery.
Thanks. This information is very helpful, even though I'm not sure where you get it from. I'm guessing you know someone at the tournament? Chris Anderson is on Jund. I believe that I heard the commentators saying so.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Thanks. This information is very helpful, even though I'm not sure where you get it from. I'm guessing you know someone at the tournament? Chris Anderson is on Jund. I believe that I heard the commentators saying so.
Watch coverage and match the decks to the names.
Also, check Twitter for the hashtag of the event. Some players will reveal the deck they're playing if someone asks them. Also, you can match opponents' decks to their names if a player tweets that he played against X deck - just check pairings to get the opponent's name.
Here's to rooting for Eli Kassis on Bant Retreat, Dorman on Bogles, and Dennison on Humans. Is it too bad to root for "less than Tier 2 decks?"
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)It getting really annoying.
UB Faeries (15-6-0)
UWR Control (10-5-1)/Kiki Control/Midrange/Harbinger
UBR Cruel Control (6-4-0)/Grixis Control/Delver/Blue Jund
UWB Control/Mentor
UW Miracles/Control (currently active, 14-2-0)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
RW Burn (9-1-0)
I do (academic) research on video games and archaeology! You can check out my open access book here: https://www.sidestone.com/books/the-interactive-past
It played out exactly as my experience was. Long, drawn out, and no time for a game 3. Even Emrakul didn't win the game on the spot.
The following match of Bogles vs Dredge was wonderfully bland as two players play at each other rather than with each other.
What a "healthy" format.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Kinda disappointed to see Eli Kassis move away from his build of Knightfall that won the SCG classic ~3 weeks ago.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
I admit it's not the most fun, but I actually enjoyed finally seeing Bogles on camera. I think it was only the 2nd Bogles deck on camera since Reid Duke in Worlds? or Pro Tour?
I think Todd Anderson hoped to dodge 4 Rancor/3 Spirit Mantle in the first game, but it's a tough task when there is a Kor Spiritdancer in play. I have literally had some disgusting Kor Spiritdancers in my time, mostly when I know my opponent doesn't have Path to Exile or Vapor Snag/Cryptic Command.
It's subjective. I actually find the Control mirror very fun to watch in person, but less fun on screen because you can't really see all the nuances of the players. I will admit that Bogles vs. Dredge is really "2 ships passing in the night," but I like to watch it regardless. It's nice to see other Boglers out there. I like how the Bogle player changed the order of what he was going to play in the last game by doing the Bogle first, then the Aura. It's not a big deal and most players would probably do the same, but it was still nice to see careful playing in a game in which he probably was 99% to win regardless of the play. I know I can get a little sloppy if I am miles ahead of my opponent and their out is literally my misplay and 3 top decks in a row.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I don't understand posts like this. You don't like control vs. control, you dont like fast matchups, you don't like certain kind of control decks, and you don't seem to like the format. It's just not a very constructive way too discuss an event or Modern. If you really dislike all those aspects, and I really don't mean this in an aggressive way, I'm really not sure this is the format for you or that there is any format which would fit your preferences.
I love control decks, so long as they can actually win games in a timely manner. The reason why "control" decks in Modern are terrible is the lack of ability to close out games. That match perfectly illustrated that even with a massive advantage, Jeskai barely completed 2 games within 50 minutes, even with resolved and ultimated Nahiris. The reason I liked Twin was it was a control deck that can win (or lose) on the spot. You take soft control and you win. Not take control, durdle around for another 10-20 turns and then maybe, most likely win, but then have no time left for a proper game 3.
I don't mind fast matchups, I'm just drawing attention to the observation everyone has about "two ships passing in the night," a quote even used by the commentators during that match. 75% of Tier 1 currently comprises of decks that "pass each other in the night." If that's the format Wizards wants, then they must be thrilled. I personally want games where players have to acknowledge their opponents' existence.
It's true that this may not be the format for me, but I don't have the money (nor does the format have enough support locally) to play Legacy Grixis Delver, and Standard has been pretty awful for more than a year. Format seems better now, but we're also <2 mo. away from a rotation, resetting everything. Kind of a bad time to buy in and play. Modern is all I can play in terms of investing in without fear of rotation (lol just fear of bans), and it has massive local support with multiple FNM style events a week at multiple locations. And for the most part, I like and enjoy the decks I play. But in the last several months, Modern has taken a back seat to Commander, which is currently my favorite format by a considerable margin.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
C'mon ktkenshinx don't you enjoy the gripping and insightful commentary cfusionpm provides that is totally not just constant salt and grump over Splinter Twin?
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I agree Dredge vs. Bogles is kind of crappy. It's like Belcher vs. Dredge in Legacy, and that's not a matchup I want to see. My major gripe is that we get to see a legit control deck mirror on camera with one established Tier 1 deck against a rising upstart and cfusion still complains about something. At that point, it's hard for me to take the post seriously and it starts to stray into the unconstructive, non-argument territory we've seen in other threads (Where people just complain about Modern issues and aren't contributing to the talk). It's not quite there but it's very borderline.
Edit: I should add that apart from this, he's doing an excellent job.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
1 Watson 27 Burn
3 Andersen 24 probably Affinity
5 Dorman 24 Bogles
6 Merriam 24 Gargadon Dredge
8 Fournier 24 Jeskai Geist
9 Boswell 24 probably Jund
15 Housman 22 UW Control
17 Candee 21 Suicide Zoo
18 Wong 21 Bant Eldrazi
20 Scherer 21 probably Affinity
21 Maine 21 Abzan Company
22 Davis 21 Jeskai Nahiri
23 Wood 21 Mono-blue Tron
25 Calcano 21 Bant Eldrazi
27 Harrod 21 Jeskai Nahiri
28 Klomparens 21 Jund
30 Ross 21 Dredge, probably Gargadon
39 Dennison 21 4C Humans
43 Jessup (Andrew) 21 probably Infect
47 Kassis 21 Bant Retreat
60 Jones 19 Grixis Delver
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Dredge can still beat Cage by hardcasting Golgari Grave-Troll. Honestly I'd rather face Cage than Leyline, but that's because I don't play Steam Vents, which is essential for hardcasting Narcomoeba and Amalgam.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
I'd rather see Dredge casting a huge fatty fair and on the stack rather than doing dumb recursive things that may or may not include BfB-Gargadon chicanery.
But that's just my sentiment.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Also, check Twitter for the hashtag of the event. Some players will reveal the deck they're playing if someone asks them. Also, you can match opponents' decks to their names if a player tweets that he played against X deck - just check pairings to get the opponent's name.
P.S. Andersen is on Jund, yes.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Here's to rooting for Eli Kassis on Bant Retreat, Dorman on Bogles, and Dennison on Humans. Is it too bad to root for "less than Tier 2 decks?"
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)