I feel like the only card that would significantly help control right now is Stoneforge Mystic. But, I highly doubt we see it unbanned anytime in the forseeable future.
Really? Do you really think that Jace or Sensei's Divining Top wouldn't help Control?
I feel like the only card that would significantly help control right now is Stoneforge Mystic. But, I highly doubt we see it unbanned anytime in the forseeable future.
Really? Do you really think that Jace or Sensei's Divining Top wouldn't help Control?
It would but we're not getting them. SFM is at least plausible.
Only if Batterskull was banned. Otherwise, SFM is actually less plausible than them.
It would but we're not getting them. SFM is at least plausible.
It's really really not. Sfm is a ridiculously powerful card. Tutor + put into play uncounterably is insanely powerful, AND it still has a relevant body. Just because you have a turn to respond to it does NOT make a powerful effect okay. I've seen the same argument made for DRS and I'm not buying it. Not to mention SFM is such a good stuff card since it can easily be slotted in with a compact equipment package (not even starting on the interaction it had with Batterskull and how it's not at all feasible for those two to be unbanned together)
Unban Sword of the meek ?... pleaseeeeeeeee I wants it. They said the reason it was on there is because it stonewalled aggro surely Burn/delver domination counts as aggro right?
I feel like the only card that would significantly help control right now is Stoneforge Mystic. But, I highly doubt we see it unbanned anytime in the forseeable future.
I think there are a few other more reasonable cards that could help control finish games, and wouldn't force every deck into running white.
Ancestral Vision to generate card advantage, Sword of the Meek to stabilize and grind a win, or even just Dark Depths for an enormous fatty. I'm not sure if giving us both SotM and DD at the same time is a great idea, as that would enable both halves of the old-ish extended list that kind of broke the format. However, it should be noted that part of the reason DD was so powerful was that Chrome Mox speed everything up by a turn (or two).
Aside from those three I think both Golgari Grave-Troll and Cloudpost should seriously be considered for unbanning.
The argument against unbanning GGT is that it either does nothing or propels some unknown Dredge deck into a dominant position. Having played Dredge often in older formats, I can confidently say that another dredger is not what is going to make things start coming up Milhouse for Dredge players. Don't take my word for it though, just look at the results. What percentage of any tournament is dredge, and of those decks, how many even max out on the dredgers that are currently available? And as to the argument that it would do nothing - great! If it doesn't shake up anything, it's still a win to take it off the list because it reduces overhead in regards to the ban list.
Cloudpost I don't see talked about all that much, and I'm a little confused by that. There is already a deck that is tapping its lands for 2 or 3 mana each (Tron), and I don't think adding the Post manabase to the format as an alternate to that would really change anything. You're still restricted by how many and of what variety of lands you're able to get into play, so it seems like six of one, half dozen of the other, to me. I won't make any claims to being an expert Tron or Post player though, so if there is something I'm missing I'm all ears.
Also, recently I've seen talks about having Bloodbraid Elf unbanned. At first I thought this was a joke, but it continued to come up, so I've giving it another thought. What are the positives of unbanning BBE? It helps bring red back into contention as the best color to pair with black and green in the ever present rock decks and it allows some more fringe Naya and Gruul decks to fight the card advantage and late game inevitability that many of the top decks represent. There might be more positives, but they escape me. What are the negatives? Rewards luck over skill, and generates free card advantage that is difficult/frustrating for most decks to deal with. So, if we bring it back, a few decks might get buffed, one of which is already top tier, and we reintroduce more luck and efficient (difficult to efficiently interact with anyway) card advantage. Honestly, I think the negatives don't outweigh the positives of potentially buffing up fringe decks, and with every new excellent four drop (I'm looking at you Siege Rhino) it makes less and less sense for BBE to be stuck on the sidelines.
It would but we're not getting them. SFM is at least plausible.
It's really really not. Sfm is a ridiculously powerful card. Tutor + put into play uncounterably is insanely powerful, AND it still has a relevant body. Just because you have a turn to respond to it does NOT make a powerful effect okay. I've seen the same argument made for DRS and I'm not buying it. Not to mention SFM is such a good stuff card since it can easily be slotted in with a compact equipment package (not even starting on the interaction it had with Batterskull and how it's not at all feasible for those two to be unbanned together)
Trust me, I know how strong SFM is. I think Modern can handle it, though, even with Batterskull legal.
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
It would but we're not getting them. SFM is at least plausible.
It's really really not. Sfm is a ridiculously powerful card. Tutor + put into play uncounterably is insanely powerful, AND it still has a relevant body. Just because you have a turn to respond to it does NOT make a powerful effect okay. I've seen the same argument made for DRS and I'm not buying it. Not to mention SFM is such a good stuff card since it can easily be slotted in with a compact equipment package (not even starting on the interaction it had with Batterskull and how it's not at all feasible for those two to be unbanned together)
Trust me, I know how strong SFM is. I think Modern can handle it, though, even with Batterskull legal.
I agree wholeheartedly with these two last statements. In fact, a huge chunk of the banlist could come off with the current power level we see in Modern.
It would but we're not getting them. SFM is at least plausible.
It's really really not. Sfm is a ridiculously powerful card. Tutor + put into play uncounterably is insanely powerful, AND it still has a relevant body. Just because you have a turn to respond to it does NOT make a powerful effect okay. I've seen the same argument made for DRS and I'm not buying it. Not to mention SFM is such a good stuff card since it can easily be slotted in with a compact equipment package (not even starting on the interaction it had with Batterskull and how it's not at all feasible for those two to be unbanned together)
Trust me, I know how strong SFM is. I think Modern can handle it, though, even with Batterskull legal.
Then explain how the turn 3 4/4 lifelink vigilance creature that always comes back + a 1/2 creature isn't too good.
Cloudpost I don't see talked about all that much, and I'm a little confused by that. There is already a deck that is tapping its lands for 2 or 3 mana each (Tron), and I don't think adding the Post manabase to the format as an alternate to that would really change anything. You're still restricted by how many and of what variety of lands you're able to get into play, so it seems like six of one, half dozen of the other, to me. I won't make any claims to being an expert Tron or Post player though, so if there is something I'm missing I'm all ears.
12-Post is an "alternative" to GR Tron in the same way that Wasteland is an "alternative" to Ghost Quarter. They have some similarities, and the latter can be better in some corner cases, but none of that changes the fact the former is on a completely different level of power.
Also, recently I've seen talks about having Bloodbraid Elf unbanned. At first I thought this was a joke, but it continued to come up, so I've giving it another thought. What are the positives of unbanning BBE? It helps bring red back into contention as the best color to pair with black and green in the ever present rock decks and it allows some more fringe Naya and Gruul decks to fight the card advantage and late game inevitability that many of the top decks represent. There might be more positives, but they escape me.
An advantage is getting a card off the banned list that really wasn't fairly banned. Deathrite Shaman was the actual problem, not Bloodbraid Elf; Bloodbraid Elf was just the scapegoat. That's why they had to ban Deathrite Shaman later. I was against unbanning Bloodbraid Elf for a while because Jund didn't need the help, but it actually could use it now.
What are the negatives? Rewards luck over skill, and generates free card advantage that is difficult/frustrating for most decks to deal with. So, if we bring it back, a few decks might get buffed, one of which is already top tier,
What "top tier" deck would be buffed by Bloodbraid Elf? The deck that would get the most benefit out of it is Jund, which is on a considerable downswing right now.
and we reintroduce more luck and efficient (difficult to efficiently interact with anyway) card advantage. Honestly, I think the negatives don't outweigh the positives of potentially buffing up fringe decks, and with every new excellent four drop (I'm looking at you Siege Rhino) it makes less and less sense for BBE to be stuck on the sidelines.
This last statement confuses me. You claim the negatives outweigh the positives, but then you give a great argument for unbanning it: It makes little sense for Bloodbraid Elf to be banned while cards like Siege Rhino are around. (Siege Rhino was a big impetus for me getting on the "unban Bloodbraid Elf" train, incidentally; I cannot give a good rational for why that is okay but Bloodbraid Elf is not)
Dark Depths actually doesn't look so scary. Why was it banned in the first place? (yes i know about the Hexmage combo that gives you T3 fatty)
Actually, a turn 2 fatty with a strong enough hand (Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth, Dark Depths, and Vampire Hexmage).
But the reason it was banned, along with Sword of the Meek, was because there was a killer Extended deck that ran the ThopterSword and HexDepths combos in it. These combos required completely different answers and thus it was hard to deal with. Of course, I would argue that only banning one of those combos would do the trick; it's amusing to read their rationales for their banning. ThopterSword got banned because it was too good with HexDepths... and HexDepths got banned because it's too good with ThopterSword.
Only one of them really needed to be banned, and HexDepths was the more dangerous one. In fact, it's even more dangerous now thanks to Thespian's Stage making the combo essentially uncounterable.
Sword of the Meek+Thopter Foundry, on the other hand, is of an acceptable power level in my eyes. Like I've said before, if we can have a 2-card combo that instantly wins the game that has redundancy (Splinter Twin), I don't see the problem with a 2-card combo that doesn't instantly win the game, has no redundancy, and is really no faster.
I have played in Legacy against Maverick/Loam decks with Dark Depths and even with Wastelands and StP being the most common removal, is a quite powerful interaction. I don't think this is the kind of card Modern needs (same as Sword of the Meek). They are manageable, but would probably reduce fun and diversity (as not every deck could handle them, and that is not the Modern WotC seems to want). I'm pretty sure they won't be unbanned in the foreseable future.
I still think Sword of the Meek is fine. It's honestly one of the weakest cards on the banlist. I'll agree Dark Depths is crazy powerful, but Sword of the Meek is much slower and easier to deal with.
Ancestral Vision needs to be unbanned, if TC/Dig get banned, it would be a "substitute" and people have been asking for a long time, perfect situation to unban it.
If they dont get banned, then it doesn't make ant sense to have AV banned as it's MUCH less powerful.
I agree that, regardless of what happens to Treasure Cruise, Ancestral Vision should be unbanned.
That said, Ancestral Vision is not a substitute for Treasure Cruise. The decks running Treasure Cruise are not the decks that want to play Ancestral Vision.
I agree with the guy saying control needs a reason to go to the long game. At the moment it doesn't have it, Cryptis is the closest thing, and that's ridiculous.
I like this thinking. I agree with what LordSeth is saying. If Wizards simply bans more cards that have come out, it IS a step back. This would definitely turn me off and I may even go to play the Standard Midrangefest that I hate so much.
If some cards are unbanned to help Modern's power level and help other cards balance out with Cruise, Dig, and even Ascendancy, I'm all for it. I agree with most of these and would LOVE any of these to be unbanned. I do believe however, that Dark Depths is too powerful. I play Jund Depths occasionally in Legacy and the Life from the Loam/Thespian Stage/Dark Depths Engine is very powerful. Yes, Modern lacks an early way to cast Liliana of the Veil and lacks the Punishing Grove interaction, but it would still be too powerful.
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There has been a long since I last played Sword, but even though it wasn't too powerful, it's an "infinite" engine that many decks can't disrupt game one, although I love control decks I think that card would made the format boring to some players. What I mean is that even though it may help control more/the same/less than Visions or Jace, I believe its much more plausible that they unban one of the later, because of WotC vision of the format.
Even if you do count it as "infinite," it's no less infinite than something like Splinter Twin. You might claim Splinter Twin is easier to disrupt, but I'd point out that Splinter Twin also has much better redundancy (Pestermite+Exarch and Kiki-Jiki let you play multiple copies of each combo piece) as well as cards that work better without the other combo piece.
Jace being unbanned isn't going to happen anytime soon. Aaron Forsythe said it, Stoneforge, and Green Sun's Zenith were in a "grave" as far as Modern is concerned. It's true they might change their mind, but that's not going to happen for a while.
EDIT: A spanish website interviewed MaRo during the WMC:
¿Y la Banned list? La próxima lista sale el 21 de enero. ¿Veremos algún cambio?
Veremos, cada carta que está en esa lista desequilibra el formato hacia un claro arquetipo.
He is asked about next announcement and he answers that "We'd see, every card in the list unbalances the metagame in favor of a certain archetype"
Bueno pero hoy en día, el DIG through time y el Cruise están dominado el formato ¿Habrá que hacer algo?
Nosotros queremos que la gente tenga las cartas para jugarlas, no queremos meter más cartas en el la lista. En un principio, nos gustaría ir sacando cartas poco a poco. Hay muchas cartas que ahora podrían combatir bien los cruises como "Cloudpost o BloodBraid elf".
He is asked if they think they should do something with Dig and Cruise and he answers "We want people to have their cards to play with them, and we don't want to add more cards to the list. We'd like to remove cards from time to time. There are many cards that could battle Cruises like Cloudpost and BBE"
Interesting interview, and it does suddenly make me wonder if they'd unban Cloudpost. I'd actually love to play 12-Post, but I do have concerns about its power level. It surprises me that seems to be on the table for an unbanning.
Of course, Mark Rosewater himself isn't the one making banning decisions, so take his statements with a grain of salt.
There's two big differences. With vesuva and thespian's stage only the first cloudpost has to be real, and then you are looking for any of the other 11 copies, so it's a lot easier to assemble than tron and harder to disrupt with ghost quarters.
I don't think 12-Post would run Thespian's Stage; maybe a copy or two, but probably not even that. Thespian's Stage's problem is twofold. First, it requires a mana investment to copy something, so you have to spend time on that (meanwhile, Vesuva copies immediately for no mana investment). Second, it can't gain life when it copies a Glimmerpost. I can't tell you how relevant the ability to gain life by copying a Glimmerpost is. The only reason the Legacy version even plays Thespian's Stage is for the Dark Depths combo.
I'd personally hate to see Cloudpost back again. 12 post is a deck that literally puts a clock on the whole format. It's a deck that was considered top Tier where turn 2-3 kills were the norm and all decks were full powered. It has lost GSZ though so maybe it might be ok, I don't know though, it's still Tron on steroids.
Yeah, it is fair to say that 12-Post wouldn't be as good as it was back in the day even if Cloudpost was unbanned, because there's no Green Sun's Zenith or even Punishing Fire. That said, it still would be good; just not sure if it's too good or not.
I mean control is already underrepresented in Modern and 12-Post would surely not be helping with that. While I have never seen 12-Post in action I heard that it has an even easier time getting fatties like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn out than Tron. I really don't know if that would be such a good idea. Considering what a beating that would be for all the midrange and control decks.
I mean control is already underrepresented in Modern and 12-Post would surely not be helping with that. While I have never seen 12-Post in action I heard that it has an even easier time getting fatties like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn out than Tron. I really don't know if that would be such a good idea. Considering what a beating that would be for all the midrange and control decks.
Hmmmm... that will make for potentially interesting decks...
Jace being unbanned isn't going to happen anytime soon. Aaron Forsythe said it, Stoneforge, and Green Sun's Zenith were in a "grave" as far as Modern is concerned. It's true they might change their mind, but that's not going to happen for a while.
Do you maybe have a source for that? I heard it a few times regarding Stoneforge but never on the topic of Jace or GSZ so it would be nice to read the actual interview or article or where ever AF stated that.
Jace being unbanned isn't going to happen anytime soon. Aaron Forsythe said it, Stoneforge, and Green Sun's Zenith were in a "grave" as far as Modern is concerned. It's true they might change their mind, but that's not going to happen for a while.
Do you maybe have a source for that? I heard it a few times regarding Stoneforge but never on the topic of Jace or GSZ so it would be nice to read the actual interview or article or where ever AF stated that.
He also said at one point that Bitterblossom was not a Modern card: https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/344577864122908673. Then it was unbanned 7 months later and has done nothing so I wouldn't take Aaron Forsythe's opinion as 100% what will happen with the Modern ban list.
Jace being unbanned isn't going to happen anytime soon. Aaron Forsythe said it, Stoneforge, and Green Sun's Zenith were in a "grave" as far as Modern is concerned. It's true they might change their mind, but that's not going to happen for a while.
Do you maybe have a source for that? I heard it a few times regarding Stoneforge but never on the topic of Jace or GSZ so it would be nice to read the actual interview or article or where ever AF stated that.
He also said at one point that Bitterblossom was not a Modern card: https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/344577864122908673. Then it was unbanned 7 months later and has done nothing so I wouldn't take Aaron Forsythe's opinion as 100% what will happen with the Modern ban list.
Uh, his statement that Bitterblossom was not a Modern card has nothing to do with whether or not it would be unbanned or not; it was a statement as to its legality at the time. This was clear if you look at the context.
Or are you claiming that Bitterblossom was actually unbanned at the time of that tweet, which it clearly wasn't?
As mentioned above by skyfalcon5, AF isn't the best source on what will stay banned either as he was adamant about Bitterblossom not being a Modern card up until it was taken off of the ban list. I believe he wrote an article around a month or two before the DRS ban/Nacatl and BB unban specifically stating that Bitterblossom would not be unbanned in the near future as it was "too powerful" for Modern. We saw how that turned out. So I wouldn't take his word on what has "a grave" in Modern. However, that is obviously my opinion on the matter, nothing more.
As mentioned above by skyfalcon5, AF isn't the best source on what will stay banned either as he was adamant about Bitterblossom not being a Modern card up until it was taken off of the ban list.
Again, in context, he was talking about legality. It wasn't a Modern card because it wasn't legal.
People seem determined to, when mentioning what R&D members say, not actually cite what they actually said. It was the same thing with the fetchlands, some noncommittal statements were made by Aaron Forsythe about them (that they were surprised by the spike of the enemy-colored fetchlands and that it takes time to reprint cards), and then people were going on about how he said they wouldn't be coming back soon, when he never said that.
I believe he wrote an article around a month or two before the DRS ban/Nacatl and BB unban specifically stating that Bitterblossom would not be unbanned in the near future as it was "too powerful" for Modern.
All Trons still sees solid representation at my local meta. I don't really think that archetype poorly positioned enough to need the massive upgrade that Cloudpost is.
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All Trons still sees solid representation at my local meta. I don't really think that archetype poorly positioned enough to need the massive upgrade that Cloudpost is.
Pardon my ignorance, but what does Cloudpost do to massively upgrade a manabase that can already generate seven mana on turn three?
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Only if Batterskull was banned. Otherwise, SFM is actually less plausible than them.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
It's really really not. Sfm is a ridiculously powerful card. Tutor + put into play uncounterably is insanely powerful, AND it still has a relevant body. Just because you have a turn to respond to it does NOT make a powerful effect okay. I've seen the same argument made for DRS and I'm not buying it. Not to mention SFM is such a good stuff card since it can easily be slotted in with a compact equipment package (not even starting on the interaction it had with Batterskull and how it's not at all feasible for those two to be unbanned together)
It would help control.
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I think there are a few other more reasonable cards that could help control finish games, and wouldn't force every deck into running white.
Ancestral Vision to generate card advantage, Sword of the Meek to stabilize and grind a win, or even just Dark Depths for an enormous fatty. I'm not sure if giving us both SotM and DD at the same time is a great idea, as that would enable both halves of the old-ish extended list that kind of broke the format. However, it should be noted that part of the reason DD was so powerful was that Chrome Mox speed everything up by a turn (or two).
Aside from those three I think both Golgari Grave-Troll and Cloudpost should seriously be considered for unbanning.
The argument against unbanning GGT is that it either does nothing or propels some unknown Dredge deck into a dominant position. Having played Dredge often in older formats, I can confidently say that another dredger is not what is going to make things start coming up Milhouse for Dredge players. Don't take my word for it though, just look at the results. What percentage of any tournament is dredge, and of those decks, how many even max out on the dredgers that are currently available? And as to the argument that it would do nothing - great! If it doesn't shake up anything, it's still a win to take it off the list because it reduces overhead in regards to the ban list.
Cloudpost I don't see talked about all that much, and I'm a little confused by that. There is already a deck that is tapping its lands for 2 or 3 mana each (Tron), and I don't think adding the Post manabase to the format as an alternate to that would really change anything. You're still restricted by how many and of what variety of lands you're able to get into play, so it seems like six of one, half dozen of the other, to me. I won't make any claims to being an expert Tron or Post player though, so if there is something I'm missing I'm all ears.
Also, recently I've seen talks about having Bloodbraid Elf unbanned. At first I thought this was a joke, but it continued to come up, so I've giving it another thought. What are the positives of unbanning BBE? It helps bring red back into contention as the best color to pair with black and green in the ever present rock decks and it allows some more fringe Naya and Gruul decks to fight the card advantage and late game inevitability that many of the top decks represent. There might be more positives, but they escape me. What are the negatives? Rewards luck over skill, and generates free card advantage that is difficult/frustrating for most decks to deal with. So, if we bring it back, a few decks might get buffed, one of which is already top tier, and we reintroduce more luck and efficient (difficult to efficiently interact with anyway) card advantage. Honestly, I think the negatives don't outweigh the positives of potentially buffing up fringe decks, and with every new excellent four drop (I'm looking at you Siege Rhino) it makes less and less sense for BBE to be stuck on the sidelines.
TL,DR: Bring back
Ancestral Vision
Sword of the Meek or Dark Depths
Golgari Grave-Troll
Cloudpost
Bloodbraid Elf
Trust me, I know how strong SFM is. I think Modern can handle it, though, even with Batterskull legal.
@b07: No way they give us Dark Depth's with Thespian Stage and Vampire Hexmage around.
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I agree wholeheartedly with these two last statements. In fact, a huge chunk of the banlist could come off with the current power level we see in Modern.
Then explain how the turn 3 4/4 lifelink vigilance creature that always comes back + a 1/2 creature isn't too good.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
An advantage is getting a card off the banned list that really wasn't fairly banned. Deathrite Shaman was the actual problem, not Bloodbraid Elf; Bloodbraid Elf was just the scapegoat. That's why they had to ban Deathrite Shaman later. I was against unbanning Bloodbraid Elf for a while because Jund didn't need the help, but it actually could use it now.
What "top tier" deck would be buffed by Bloodbraid Elf? The deck that would get the most benefit out of it is Jund, which is on a considerable downswing right now.
This last statement confuses me. You claim the negatives outweigh the positives, but then you give a great argument for unbanning it: It makes little sense for Bloodbraid Elf to be banned while cards like Siege Rhino are around. (Siege Rhino was a big impetus for me getting on the "unban Bloodbraid Elf" train, incidentally; I cannot give a good rational for why that is okay but Bloodbraid Elf is not)
But the reason it was banned, along with Sword of the Meek, was because there was a killer Extended deck that ran the ThopterSword and HexDepths combos in it. These combos required completely different answers and thus it was hard to deal with. Of course, I would argue that only banning one of those combos would do the trick; it's amusing to read their rationales for their banning. ThopterSword got banned because it was too good with HexDepths... and HexDepths got banned because it's too good with ThopterSword.
Only one of them really needed to be banned, and HexDepths was the more dangerous one. In fact, it's even more dangerous now thanks to Thespian's Stage making the combo essentially uncounterable.
Sword of the Meek+Thopter Foundry, on the other hand, is of an acceptable power level in my eyes. Like I've said before, if we can have a 2-card combo that instantly wins the game that has redundancy (Splinter Twin), I don't see the problem with a 2-card combo that doesn't instantly win the game, has no redundancy, and is really no faster.
I still think Sword of the Meek is fine. It's honestly one of the weakest cards on the banlist. I'll agree Dark Depths is crazy powerful, but Sword of the Meek is much slower and easier to deal with.
I agree that, regardless of what happens to Treasure Cruise, Ancestral Vision should be unbanned.
That said, Ancestral Vision is not a substitute for Treasure Cruise. The decks running Treasure Cruise are not the decks that want to play Ancestral Vision.
Thanks for the agreement!
I like this thinking. I agree with what LordSeth is saying. If Wizards simply bans more cards that have come out, it IS a step back. This would definitely turn me off and I may even go to play the Standard Midrangefest that I hate so much.
If some cards are unbanned to help Modern's power level and help other cards balance out with Cruise, Dig, and even Ascendancy, I'm all for it. I agree with most of these and would LOVE any of these to be unbanned. I do believe however, that Dark Depths is too powerful. I play Jund Depths occasionally in Legacy and the Life from the Loam/Thespian Stage/Dark Depths Engine is very powerful. Yes, Modern lacks an early way to cast Liliana of the Veil and lacks the Punishing Grove interaction, but it would still be too powerful.
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Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Jace being unbanned isn't going to happen anytime soon. Aaron Forsythe said it, Stoneforge, and Green Sun's Zenith were in a "grave" as far as Modern is concerned. It's true they might change their mind, but that's not going to happen for a while.
Interesting interview, and it does suddenly make me wonder if they'd unban Cloudpost. I'd actually love to play 12-Post, but I do have concerns about its power level. It surprises me that seems to be on the table for an unbanning.
Of course, Mark Rosewater himself isn't the one making banning decisions, so take his statements with a grain of salt.
I don't think 12-Post would run Thespian's Stage; maybe a copy or two, but probably not even that. Thespian's Stage's problem is twofold. First, it requires a mana investment to copy something, so you have to spend time on that (meanwhile, Vesuva copies immediately for no mana investment). Second, it can't gain life when it copies a Glimmerpost. I can't tell you how relevant the ability to gain life by copying a Glimmerpost is. The only reason the Legacy version even plays Thespian's Stage is for the Dark Depths combo.
Yeah, it is fair to say that 12-Post wouldn't be as good as it was back in the day even if Cloudpost was unbanned, because there's no Green Sun's Zenith or even Punishing Fire. That said, it still would be good; just not sure if it's too good or not.
I mean control is already underrepresented in Modern and 12-Post would surely not be helping with that. While I have never seen 12-Post in action I heard that it has an even easier time getting fatties like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn out than Tron. I really don't know if that would be such a good idea. Considering what a beating that would be for all the midrange and control decks.
Hmmmm... that will make for potentially interesting decks...
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Modern_Twelvepost_deck
Why not unban artifact lands and ban Cranial Plating?:BI secretly ship Ral x Jace... and Nissa x Chandra... :">Do you maybe have a source for that? I heard it a few times regarding Stoneforge but never on the topic of Jace or GSZ so it would be nice to read the actual interview or article or where ever AF stated that.
He also said at one point that Bitterblossom was not a Modern card: https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/344577864122908673. Then it was unbanned 7 months later and has done nothing so I wouldn't take Aaron Forsythe's opinion as 100% what will happen with the Modern ban list.
I do that in my hypothetical imaginary banned list.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Here
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/567422-i-just-personally-spoke-with-aaron-forsythe-at-pro
Or are you claiming that Bitterblossom was actually unbanned at the time of that tweet, which it clearly wasn't?
People seem determined to, when mentioning what R&D members say, not actually cite what they actually said. It was the same thing with the fetchlands, some noncommittal statements were made by Aaron Forsythe about them (that they were surprised by the spike of the enemy-colored fetchlands and that it takes time to reprint cards), and then people were going on about how he said they wouldn't be coming back soon, when he never said that.
Citation needed!
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I'll see if I can find it for you. Are the old articles archived on the new site, or do I need to go digging in the old one?
Pardon my ignorance, but what does Cloudpost do to massively upgrade a manabase that can already generate seven mana on turn three?