What is the point of this thread? Wizards doesn't care about our opinions, and people never really convince other people of their opinions on here. It's just people stating things, some agreeing, others vehemently and even aggressively disagreeing, to no end. Why even post here?
What is the point of this thread? Wizards doesn't care about our opinions, and people never really convince other people of their opinions on here. It's just people stating things, some agreeing, others vehemently and even aggressively disagreeing, to no end. Why even post here?
Sometimes I DO actually learn interesting things about past metas, and I've certainly learned a few things about card evaluation from this thread.
What is the point of this thread? Wizards doesn't care about our opinions, and people never really convince other people of their opinions on here. It's just people stating things, some agreeing, others vehemently and even aggressively disagreeing, to no end. Why even post here?
Why do you care? If you don't like this thread, don't participate in it.
What is the point of this thread? Wizards doesn't care about our opinions, and people never really convince other people of their opinions on here. It's just people stating things, some agreeing, others vehemently and even aggressively disagreeing, to no end. Why even post here?
Ever since its creation, Modern has had a contentious issue in its banlist. As moderators, we know that people want to talk about bans. They want to criticize those bans or support them, just as much as they want to propose unbans and discourage others. This conversation is always going to happen in this format because of the way it started and the way that many players talk about it. Our job on this site is not to change that conversation or try to stop it. But what we can do is keep it in one place so everyone who wants to talk about it can do so together. Some people find it fun. Others find it engaging. And others still hate it. By having the ban discussion in one thread, those who don't want to talk about it don't have to deal with it, just like how if someone isn't interested in brewing Deadguy Ale or Ad Nauseam they don't have to go over to those threads.
And who knows, maybe some minor peon at Wizards is watching to find community feedback? Probably not, but you never know!
What is the point of this thread? Wizards doesn't care about our opinions, and people never really convince other people of their opinions on here. It's just people stating things, some agreeing, others vehemently and even aggressively disagreeing, to no end. Why even post here?
Tho rare I've seen people been swayed, the biggest one being dread return.
What is the point of this thread? Wizards doesn't care about our opinions, and people never really convince other people of their opinions on here. It's just people stating things, some agreeing, others vehemently and even aggressively disagreeing, to no end. Why even post here?
What is the point of this thread? Wizards doesn't care about our opinions, and people never really convince other people of their opinions on here. It's just people stating things, some agreeing, others vehemently and even aggressively disagreeing, to no end. Why even post here?
Tho rare I've seen people been swayed, the biggest one being dread return.
Agreed. I myself have been convinced in here that GSZ would be safe.
What is the point of this thread? Wizards doesn't care about our opinions, and people never really convince other people of their opinions on here. It's just people stating things, some agreeing, others vehemently and even aggressively disagreeing, to no end. Why even post here?
So I guess you are the type of person who runs around showing everybody the middle finger since what is the point of talking with people, right?
The discussion is totally fine. Nobody on here expects this conversation to actually have any kind of influence anyway.
I may have just missed something here, but how is green sun's safe with Pod already being an amazing deck? So Pod should get chord, zenith, and pod itself?
I may have just missed something here, but how is green sun's safe with Pod already being an amazing deck? So Pod should get chord, zenith, and pod itself?
I'm one to believe Pod wouldn't want it.
GSZ is a strong card but Pod would rather Chord out or Pod up, it doesn't need to run extra virtual copies of all its green critters since it's more concerned with toolboxing through a whole bunch of value critters, not all of which are Green.
Id probably run it in my Pod list. I run a more value based Pod deck and I would like being able to find a Melira, Finks, Noble, or Arbor. I mean I like Chord but most of the time I use it to find a Finks.
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Active Modern Decks
U Tron GW Bogles RG Loam UR Blue Breach RBU Grixis Goryo BRU Grixis Delver GBR Jund GBW Junk
GSZ is another card that for some reason unbeknownst to me people fail to realize its actual power level. In my opinion it is not safe for Modern.
Mostly because its unlikely to be degenerate or produce decks that are super samey. The format has grown enough that there are plenty of decks that wouldn't be likely to use it but still be competitive.
In theory its only added to midrangey green decks, which aren't so much of the format to be samey or degenerate. I already posted what is probably the best deck that's used it before and even if its updated, its unlikely to be so degenerate that it's massively format warping.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
I may have just missed something here, but how is green sun's safe with Pod already being an amazing deck? So Pod should get chord, zenith, and pod itself?
I'm one to believe Pod wouldn't want it.
GSZ is a strong card but Pod would rather Chord out or Pod up, it doesn't need to run extra virtual copies of all its green critters since it's more concerned with toolboxing through a whole bunch of value critters, not all of which are Green.
I feel like it would be used simply for speed. Being able to T1 Arbor or T2 a dork when you don't otherwise happen to have one is fairly significant. Then, later, it can net you random value or bullets.
I may have just missed something here, but how is green sun's safe with Pod already being an amazing deck? So Pod should get chord, zenith, and pod itself?
Pod can only run a limited amount of noncreature spells. if it was going to run GSZ, it would have to cut Chord. And Chord is much better than Zenith in either Pod deck. Some of the best Chord targets are nongreen (Ranger of Eos, Restoration Angel, Shriekmaw, Archangel of Thune, Linvala, and Murderous Redcap being the main ones). GSZ is also a sorcery and does not have synergy with wall of Roots like Chord does.
I have to agree with this. GSZ wouldn't see play in that many decks, and it wouldn't be degenerate.
One card I want to talk about is Mental Misstep. Yeah, it's banned because it's a zero-mana counterspell that every deck can play, but I feel like unbanning it wouldn't be that bad because the only actual threats it counters are Signal Pest and Wild Nacatl, and not many people play Zoo these days. It would do most of its work countering dorks, cantrips, and removal spells, and while it would certainly warp the format, it might warp the format in a good way.
I have to agree with this. GSZ wouldn't see play in that many decks, and it wouldn't be degenerate.
One card I want to talk about is Mental Misstep. Yeah, it's banned because it's a zero-mana counterspell that every deck can play, but I feel like unbanning it wouldn't be that bad because the only actual threats it counters are Signal Pest and Wild Nacatl, and not many people play Zoo these days. It would do most of its work countering dorks, cantrips, and removal spells, and while it would certainly warp the format, it might warp the format in a good way.
It would stop Bolt, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Serum Visions, and Path. Because of this, it would see play in every deck, having the exact same effect on Modern that it had on Legacy.
I think "every deck" is a stretch, but yeah, the card is obscenely good, especially against Seize / IOK. Just about every combo deck would want four copies between the main and board.
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When you peer long enough through the depths, the depths peer also through you.
I think "every deck" is a stretch, but yeah, the card is obscenely good, especially against Seize / IOK. Just about every combo deck would want four copies between the main and board.
Every Control deck would want it to stop those cards too. And every midrange deck would run it to protect their threats and hands. And every aggro and tempo deck would run it to counter opposing Missteps.
Wait, what? People think Pod wouldn't run GSZ? I don't think people saying that have played against pod all that often...
Sometimes, all Pod needs is a BoP or Dryad Arbor when they don't have one, and getting one out for 2/1 mana is way different. It is a toolbox deck, and giving them more tutors is not what the meta wants. Sure, chord is instant speed, but when playing against Pod with Jund/UWR/etc. you are trying to keep their board clear, and GSZ makes that nearly impossible.
I don't think WotC is going to risk making the best deck in the format even better by a GSZ unban...
Wait, what? People think Pod wouldn't run GSZ? I don't think people saying that have played against pod all that often...
Sometimes, all Pod needs is a BoP or Dryad Arbor when they don't have one, and getting one out for 2/1 mana is way different. It is a toolbox deck, and giving them more tutors is not what the meta wants. Sure, chord is instant speed, but when playing against Pod with Jund/UWR/etc. you are trying to keep their board clear, and GSZ makes that nearly impossible.
I don't think WotC is going to risk making the best deck in the format even better by a GSZ unban...
They can only run so many noncreature spells to make Pod consistent and Chord is better than GSZ in Pod. GSZ can't get many of the best Chord targets (Shriekmaw, Ranger of Eos, Murderous Redcap, Restoration Angel, Archangel of Thune0. Chord is an instant. Chord can be abused with Wall of Roots. Chord can be gotten back with Eternl Witness, which I'd say is more relevant than the shuffle on GSZ.
So it looks like GBW Junk is being pretty dominant at GP Boston.Is this gonna lead to another banning down the road? Maybe Lingering Souls? lol.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
While that's true with current lists I think that's being shortsighted. With a powerful card like GSZ being unbanned pod would adapt there's a lot of cards you can get with GSZ that was not as practical with chord. GSZ is a much more powerful card than chord imo.
Being forced to run worse cards to get with GSZ when you could get infinite combos, removal, tutors, and Restoration Angel is not that good.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Sometimes I DO actually learn interesting things about past metas, and I've certainly learned a few things about card evaluation from this thread.
Why do you care? If you don't like this thread, don't participate in it.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Ever since its creation, Modern has had a contentious issue in its banlist. As moderators, we know that people want to talk about bans. They want to criticize those bans or support them, just as much as they want to propose unbans and discourage others. This conversation is always going to happen in this format because of the way it started and the way that many players talk about it. Our job on this site is not to change that conversation or try to stop it. But what we can do is keep it in one place so everyone who wants to talk about it can do so together. Some people find it fun. Others find it engaging. And others still hate it. By having the ban discussion in one thread, those who don't want to talk about it don't have to deal with it, just like how if someone isn't interested in brewing Deadguy Ale or Ad Nauseam they don't have to go over to those threads.
And who knows, maybe some minor peon at Wizards is watching to find community feedback? Probably not, but you never know!
Tho rare I've seen people been swayed, the biggest one being dread return.
Containment.
I did not say this. I am not here.
Agreed. I myself have been convinced in here that GSZ would be safe.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
So I guess you are the type of person who runs around showing everybody the middle finger since what is the point of talking with people, right?
The discussion is totally fine. Nobody on here expects this conversation to actually have any kind of influence anyway.
I'm one to believe Pod wouldn't want it.
GSZ is a strong card but Pod would rather Chord out or Pod up, it doesn't need to run extra virtual copies of all its green critters since it's more concerned with toolboxing through a whole bunch of value critters, not all of which are Green.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
Mostly because its unlikely to be degenerate or produce decks that are super samey. The format has grown enough that there are plenty of decks that wouldn't be likely to use it but still be competitive.
In theory its only added to midrangey green decks, which aren't so much of the format to be samey or degenerate. I already posted what is probably the best deck that's used it before and even if its updated, its unlikely to be so degenerate that it's massively format warping.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
I feel like it would be used simply for speed. Being able to T1 Arbor or T2 a dork when you don't otherwise happen to have one is fairly significant. Then, later, it can net you random value or bullets.
Pod can only run a limited amount of noncreature spells. if it was going to run GSZ, it would have to cut Chord. And Chord is much better than Zenith in either Pod deck. Some of the best Chord targets are nongreen (Ranger of Eos, Restoration Angel, Shriekmaw, Archangel of Thune, Linvala, and Murderous Redcap being the main ones). GSZ is also a sorcery and does not have synergy with wall of Roots like Chord does.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
One card I want to talk about is Mental Misstep. Yeah, it's banned because it's a zero-mana counterspell that every deck can play, but I feel like unbanning it wouldn't be that bad because the only actual threats it counters are Signal Pest and Wild Nacatl, and not many people play Zoo these days. It would do most of its work countering dorks, cantrips, and removal spells, and while it would certainly warp the format, it might warp the format in a good way.
It would stop Bolt, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, Serum Visions, and Path. Because of this, it would see play in every deck, having the exact same effect on Modern that it had on Legacy.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Every Control deck would want it to stop those cards too. And every midrange deck would run it to protect their threats and hands. And every aggro and tempo deck would run it to counter opposing Missteps.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Sometimes, all Pod needs is a BoP or Dryad Arbor when they don't have one, and getting one out for 2/1 mana is way different. It is a toolbox deck, and giving them more tutors is not what the meta wants. Sure, chord is instant speed, but when playing against Pod with Jund/UWR/etc. you are trying to keep their board clear, and GSZ makes that nearly impossible.
I don't think WotC is going to risk making the best deck in the format even better by a GSZ unban...
They can only run so many noncreature spells to make Pod consistent and Chord is better than GSZ in Pod. GSZ can't get many of the best Chord targets (Shriekmaw, Ranger of Eos, Murderous Redcap, Restoration Angel, Archangel of Thune0. Chord is an instant. Chord can be abused with Wall of Roots. Chord can be gotten back with Eternl Witness, which I'd say is more relevant than the shuffle on GSZ.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Being forced to run worse cards to get with GSZ when you could get infinite combos, removal, tutors, and Restoration Angel is not that good.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.