Caverns are worth it if you see a lot of blue decks in your meta. Otherwise you can skip it to avoid not having coloured mana. Especially since Kaladesh gave us Blooming Marsh.
As for the Nettle/No Nettle, they're better in Lead builds because they allow you to chain spells one after another. Without the ability to do that and without Heritage Druid on board, they're mostly just 2/2 vanilla creatures. Personally I've taken them out few months back and haven't missed them at all.
So in GB builds, you would do Chord and no Nettles?
Caverns are worth it if you see a lot of blue decks in your meta. Otherwise you can skip it to avoid not having coloured mana. Especially since Kaladesh gave us Blooming Marsh.
As for the Nettle/No Nettle, they're better in Lead builds because they allow you to chain spells one after another. Without the ability to do that and without Heritage Druid on board, they're mostly just 2/2 vanilla creatures. Personally I've taken them out few months back and haven't missed them at all.
So in GB builds, you would do Chord and no Nettles?
That's a rough one. Not because Nettles are not good, but chord + lots of 3 mana creatures (Shaman added) makes it hard to chord more consistently on turn three. It is a bit cluncky, but of course there are many lists that make top 8 with them. I'm just personally not a fan and think that Chord is better in GW builds with lower curve. Although, there seems to be an interesting mix of chord/lack of nettle and abzan builds floating around in Japan. This list went 5-1 for a second place finish in Osaka (near my home town). This may help in deciding if Nettles are worth it for some.
@everyone
I am also not looking forward to Fatal Push for Elves. It won't devastate us, but it would hurt us more than help us. Non-red decks now have a way to slow us down without giving us a land :S I have an Esper Control deck I'm working on, so on the one hand I am ecstatic, but on the other, I am weary.
If the metagame slows down, Lead may be the way to go over Chord. If Infect and Affinity get pushed out and people favor non-red control, it may actually be good news for us. We will tool our deck accordingly, maybe even adding something like Chameleon Colossus main deck. Either way, we will adjust and rise above as we always have done.
@Kizzel Caverns are worth it for blue decks or Chalice decks. I prefer Lead because it allows me to mulligan more aggressively and also allows me to refill my hand after wipes or while going off with Heritage Druid, which also leads to Nettle Sentinel. Nettle is great in the Lead versions for the combo potential. It probably isn't as valuable with Chord.
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@Kizzel Caverns are worth it for blue decks or Chalice decks. I prefer Lead because it allows me to mulligan more aggressively and also allows me to refill my hand after wipes or while going off with Heritage Druid, which also leads to Nettle Sentinel. Nettle is great in the Lead versions for the combo potential. It probably isn't as valuable with Chord.
^^^This.
My overall opinion is that even though Chord Of Calling is a faster card, and modern is a very fast format, the ability to mulligan aggressively is beyond underrated. If you're playing in a large tournament, such as a GP, I want Lead The Stampede maindeck so that I can mulligan aggressively in the blind. Then when I know when I'm up against, the potency of Chord Of Calling increases enough post-board that I make the switch. Mulliganning is the most important aspect of modern because the games end on turn four, if you make the deck better at that it gets so much better than you can imagine.
Same goes for Cavern Of Souls. If you're in a small meta where you know the number of players on control and Chalice Of The Void, then decide whether you want Cavern. But if you're going to a large event, I would rather not straight up lose to a fairly popular sideboard card as well as be prepared for everything.
Nettles rock when you have heritage. They're ok when you have a hand. And they're terrible when topdecking a land.
In short, you mostly want to see them only if you have a heritage Druid and a hand to do stuff with the mana and untap. From both this and real world experience I ended up doing the medium: 2 nettles. The other 2 slots went to Essence warden, which drastically improves match ups where you race.
On caverns:
Very good to have when blue is common place. Chalice as well. Not worth the price tag in my opinion. With so many GB lands to choose from, I hardly feel the necessity in the current meta.
On lead vs chord:
Similar to nettles, I found that chord when played as a 4 of tended to clump my hand in the early game. I don't have the board presence to chord early, so I don't really want to see the card before Turn 3. And with 4 chords,how do u make room for lead, which can be awesome in attrition games? Again, I went for the medium, 2 leads and 3 chords, cutting a Colorless land for my 9th non creature spell. This way i enjoy the turn 2 heritage into elite into lead opener, and also reasonably consistent access to the toolbox.
On fatal push:
Well, we've been dealing with bolts and dismembers and paths. No mistake, this card is really good and makes smother a thing of the past, but I hardly feel like it's the end of the road. Abzan and Esper may make a return and what we need to really look out for is whether their numbers in the meta jump. If it does, we adjust our lists to cater for more attrition battles. More leads, dusk watch recruiters, chameleon colossus main, who knows?
What I'm saying is that we have nothing more to fear from a new 1 mana removal. If we find ourselves fighting spot removal decks more often, just pretend like you're facing an uptick in jund decks. Not much of a difference.
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You can try for the best of both worlds, but it's YOUR list that gets outperformed. G/B and G/W are both outpperforming yours. None of the top performing lists have 3 shamans. So please take your toxicity elsewhere. Besides being wrong, you're being a jerk. I get double shamans about 1 out of 5 times on Co-co because I have 4. You don't, for very good mathematical reasons. It's not that I mind you telling me you disagree, but you've not given any solid reason AND you are telling me I'm wrong. That's unproductive AND rude.
Edit: this is to the Wizard guy who keeps telling me off for suggesting 4 shamans is the better route.
I'm not being a jerk, or rude. I simply pointed out that 4 shamans is not always the way to go, and I proved my point with evidence.
I don't know why this makes you upset, you say u don't mind disagreement with a solid reason, I took the trouble to hyperlink and here you are, upset at... being proven wrong? I was even fair and highlighted 4 shaman lists that do well too, because I don't like cherrypickers.
I frankly feel like a deserve an apology for being called a jerk, because all I had done was disagree and offer evidence that contradicts your statement.
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This conversation about chord and lead have came up so many times. It's about preference. Both have been proven to earn mainboard slots over the other. However I will share that If your playing with 3-4 Shaman of the Pact. Lead the stampede revealing multiple shaman does refill your hand with slow CMC=3 creatures sometimes. Shaman of the Pacts best place to be is in the library or battlefield. I will choose to play Chord over lead as long has fair decks continue to not be favored. I do enjoy playing 3x Chords, 2x Leads for 9 noncreature spells.
Elves are one of the fastest decks in modern right now because of Heritage Druid. Chord allows you to pay 4 mana to pull her out of your deck at instant speed. Nettle Sentinel untaps after cast, so basically making Chord cost 1 less. Keeping that in mind for my first 4 turns of a game is worth knowing. Later Chord sets you up for a kill with EOT Ezuri/Archdruid. Or sometimes just cleans up a game with a Shaman. Game 2/3, determine weather your deck needs to be toolbox to win, or if you feel you won't have an issue casting Chord. Otherwise, side some out. I always keep 1 in unless I have sided out all Shaman of the Pack. Note* I do play 2x Lead in the sideboard.
Also really wanted to comment of Fatal Push. My opinions of Wizards choices to print this card into Standard and at the same time Modern is mixed. I won't go into detail but from a player who loves playing Elves. This is fine. Like Marc said, we already deal with bolts, paths, and dismembers. We can regen through it, redirect with spellskite, or just ignore the 1-for-1 trade and continue playing. Chameleon Colossus is a house as always. I do plan to remove my 1x Dismember in favor of 1x Fatal Push for a while. But I don't feel like I can consistently get a black source before turn 4.
While we're discussing the optimum maindeck, how many of you guys still play Elvish Visionary? I'm kinda hesitant about her since she's great off CoCo and vs grindy decks but really bad when you want to chain elves.
Mimic is definitely worth a look. The problem is more of who to replace rather than whether the card is good or not. It's a 2 mana elf that bolsters everything coming after it. Very valuable, but our other 2 drops aren't slackers either. One of them even works particularly well with Mimic. 1G for a 3/3 and a 2/2, that can't be shrunk by bolting the lord? Also consider that archdruids that hit the board AFTER mimic will be pyroclasm and return of kozilek proofed. 2 mimics will place them out of bolt range.
Really attractive. And yea, visionary looks to be the next possible cut.
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Would you play Heroic Intervention over Selfless Spirit? I wouldn't. Also note that Wrap in Vigor existed before Heroic Intervention, and its effect is pretty close.
Locket of Myths looks too mana-hungry to be of use. Lead the Stampede draws slightly under 3 cards on average for 3 mana. Locket makes you pay 3 up front, and 1 for every subsequent card. You'd need to pay 6 mana total just to match Lead.
Mimic is definitely worth a look. The problem is more of who to replace rather than whether the card is good or not. It's a 2 mana elf that bolsters everything coming after it. Very valuable, but our other 2 drops aren't slackers either. One of them even works particularly well with Mimic. 1G for a 3/3 and a 2/2, that can't be shrunk by bolting the lord? Also consider that archdruids that hit the board AFTER mimic will be pyroclasm and return of kozilek proofed. 2 mimics will place them out of bolt range.
Really attractive. And yea, visionary looks to be the next possible cut.
I agree that mimic needs testing. If we are on the lead version, we will be gaining our card advantage through Lead the Stampede that Visionary, I think, can be replaced. But, I wouldn't put the full four. I will start with two mimic and one Visionary to see.
Would you play Heroic Intervention over Selfless Spirit? I wouldn't. Also note that Wrap in Vigor existed before Heroic Intervention, and its effect is pretty close.
Locket of Myths looks too mana-hungry to be of use. Lead the Stampede draws slightly under 3 cards on average for 3 mana. Locket makes you pay 3 up front, and 1 for every subsequent card. You'd need to pay 6 mana total just to match Lead.
The GB Lead Versions could probably find use for the Heroic Intervention. Locket is intriguing but I agree it may be a little too slow. The scry isn't nothing in a top deck war against control. If Push does increase the viability and amount of control decks in modern, I could definitely find myself trying it as a one of in the board but don't have high expectations.
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I think Locket if anything has value in a lead build then anything. You would want it in addition to lead for grindy matchups, not instead of. It means that every creature you grab off of lead can get you potentially more lands, creatures, or lead/coco. However, I think the Locket is best suited in a curio type of build that kinda wants to combo out and this provides another avenue to use the infinite mana that could be generated to draw your deck and eventually Emrakul or Craterhoof or whatever other win condition you need. I would think that discussion is in the Modern Combo Elves thread.
As for Heroic Intervention, it is probably more beneficial in a Lead/Messenger style deck then a Chord. The above poster that mentioned that it can't be chorded for is correct. Heroic Intervention as another spell is better that needs many copies of sideboard cards to insure that they get them in time. I wouldn't put this as a one of, but a 2-3 of in most boards and that means probably more beneficial in a non-chord sideboard. And I think lead works best in this vein. This could mean that a mono-green forest heavy version of Elves might be super awesome if Fatal Push slows the format down. Fracturing Gust/Reclamation Sage/Natural State/Claim, Heroic Intervention, Essence Warden/Kitchen Finks, and Scavenging Ooze/Loaming Shaman could handle most of the enchantments we would need for white. Mono-green lead/messenger builds are still the most vulnerable to combo like ad nausuem, but you can't have everything.
Chord builds still want creatures to chord for and heroic intervention isn't as good as BFT or Selfless Spirit.
There's a whole bunch of cards from Aether Reovlt that seem like they would fit in Elves, but I'm not convinced.
....Rishkar, Peema Renegade is a 3-drop that can be casted off Heritage Druid mana. In terms of stats it's not too bad - it provides 4 P/T for 3 mana. Its effect is really good with Nettle Sentinel, practicallly the same as Heritage Druid. I don't think it will replace anything in this deck, but the combo versions of Elves (anything with Beck // Call or Cloudstone Curio) should give it a look. In Curio Elves it's an enabler and wincon all in one, granting Nettle Sentinel a mana ability, and when you have infinite mana, you can bounce and replay Rishkar and some other dork repeatedly for infinite +1/+1 counters....
This is VERY likely going to see play in combo elves (as might the new Locket of Myths)...but that discussion is being had on the "Combo Elves" forum:
P.S. I have no issue with the two forum's being combined again; but the community did ask for them to be seperated when I was OP and put it to a "vote". If it helps everyone to have one central "Elves" Thread/Primer, I completely understand. I had planned on continuing to OP the Combo Elves thread (with Kavselj now OP-ing this one) but will do whatever the Elf Community wants most of course.
So, I've been fooling around with Metallic Mimic as a three of (instead of the Visionary). And I can't remember, Mimic puts on counter on the partner elf when both are put into play by CoCo, right? Both enter at the same time, the mimic "checks" that the other entered and gives a counter. Or, am I wrong? I feel this is the same rules as Valakut or mono-green stompy with Experiment One and Avatar of the Resolute. Any rules mages here?
i dont see why we cant have a debate on this card for this deck here...its not specifically and only a combo card..
No one said you couldn't debate the card's inclusion in CoCo Elves. I apologize if it seemed that way. I was literally quoting and discussing Izzetmage's comments about Rishkar, Locket, etc. going into Combo Elves (as he stated with Beck/Call and/or Cloudstone Curio). I was just bringing up the fact that if anyone wanted to discuss Combo Elf lists, potential for Elf Combo decks, etc. that there was a forum for it...but also that we could combine them again if this was the "communities" wish now (as it was voted on in the past to separate them).
So, I've been fooling around with Metallic Mimic as a three of (instead of the Visionary). And I can't remember, Mimic puts on counter on the partner elf when both are put into play by CoCo, right? Both enter at the same time, the mimic "checks" that the other entered and gives a counter. Or, am I wrong? I feel this is the same rules as Valakut or mono-green stompy with Experiment One and Avatar of the Resolute. Any rules mages here?
I think that you are right as it seems similar to Genesis Wave. They all enter at the same time, but you get to choose the order of all of the triggers. So hist ETB trigger would "ask" you to choose elves then each other creature entering "after" that would get the +1/+1 counter. I'm not a judge; but this at minimum seems like a very similar situation.
i dont see why we cant have a debate on this card for this deck here...its not specifically and only a combo card..
No one said you couldn't debate the card's inclusion in CoCo Elves...I was literally quoting and discussing Izzetmage's comments about Rishkar, Locket, etc. going into Combo Elves (as he stated with Beck/Call and/or Cloudstone Curio). I was just bringing up the fact that if anyone wanted to discuss Combo Elf lists, potential for Elf Combo decks, etc. that there was a forum for it...but also that we could combine them again if this was the "communities" wish now (as it was voted on in the past to separate them).
So, I've been fooling around with Metallic Mimic as a three of (instead of the Visionary). And I can't remember, Mimic puts on counter on the partner elf when both are put into play by CoCo, right? Both enter at the same time, the mimic "checks" that the other entered and gives a counter. Or, am I wrong? I feel this is the same rules as Valakut or mono-green stompy with Experiment One and Avatar of the Resolute. Any rules mages here?
I think that you are right as it seems similar to Genesis Wave. They all enter at the same time, but you get to choose the order of all of the triggers. So hist ETB trigger would "ask" you to choose elves then each other creature entering "after" that would get the +1/+1 counter. I'm not a judge; but this at minimum seems like a very similar situation.
If that is true, then Metallic Mimic becomes very much a contender for the two drop slot.
Scenario 1: CoCo – Metallic Mimic + Dwynen’s Elite = Flash/7 power on board for four mana
Scenario 2: CoCo – Metallic Mimic + Archdruid = Flash/5 power/2 mana on board for four mana
Scenario 3: CoCo- Metallic Mimic + Metallic Mimic = Flash/6 power/double lord for future creatures for four mana
Scenario 4: CoCo-Metallic Mimic + Shaman of the Pack = Flash/6 power/2 damage for four mana
Even as tame as Scenerio 5: CoCo-Metallic Mimic + Nettle Sentinel = Flash/5 power for four mana.
The question comes down to, do we want a generic card or at least 1 counter on 1 creature and a power up tick (with the potential of subsequent creatures coming into play much more powerful).
So, I've been fooling around with Metallic Mimic as a three of (instead of the Visionary). And I can't remember, Mimic puts on counter on the partner elf when both are put into play by CoCo, right? Both enter at the same time, the mimic "checks" that the other entered and gives a counter. Or, am I wrong? I feel this is the same rules as Valakut or mono-green stompy with Experiment One and Avatar of the Resolute. Any rules mages here?
If I remember correctly the ruling for Bramblewood Paragon (that is worded the same) they shouldn't get a counter since it's not a triggered ability but a replacement effect and since they enter at the same time then Metallic Mimic isn't yet on the battlefield so it's effect doesn't apply.
So in GB builds, you would do Chord and no Nettles?
That's a rough one. Not because Nettles are not good, but chord + lots of 3 mana creatures (Shaman added) makes it hard to chord more consistently on turn three. It is a bit cluncky, but of course there are many lists that make top 8 with them. I'm just personally not a fan and think that Chord is better in GW builds with lower curve. Although, there seems to be an interesting mix of chord/lack of nettle and abzan builds floating around in Japan. This list went 5-1 for a second place finish in Osaka (near my home town). This may help in deciding if Nettles are worth it for some.
@everyone
I am also not looking forward to Fatal Push for Elves. It won't devastate us, but it would hurt us more than help us. Non-red decks now have a way to slow us down without giving us a land :S I have an Esper Control deck I'm working on, so on the one hand I am ecstatic, but on the other, I am weary.
If the metagame slows down, Lead may be the way to go over Chord. If Infect and Affinity get pushed out and people favor non-red control, it may actually be good news for us. We will tool our deck accordingly, maybe even adding something like Chameleon Colossus main deck. Either way, we will adjust and rise above as we always have done.
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^^^This.
My overall opinion is that even though Chord Of Calling is a faster card, and modern is a very fast format, the ability to mulligan aggressively is beyond underrated. If you're playing in a large tournament, such as a GP, I want Lead The Stampede maindeck so that I can mulligan aggressively in the blind. Then when I know when I'm up against, the potency of Chord Of Calling increases enough post-board that I make the switch. Mulliganning is the most important aspect of modern because the games end on turn four, if you make the deck better at that it gets so much better than you can imagine.
Same goes for Cavern Of Souls. If you're in a small meta where you know the number of players on control and Chalice Of The Void, then decide whether you want Cavern. But if you're going to a large event, I would rather not straight up lose to a fairly popular sideboard card as well as be prepared for everything.
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Nettles rock when you have heritage. They're ok when you have a hand. And they're terrible when topdecking a land.
In short, you mostly want to see them only if you have a heritage Druid and a hand to do stuff with the mana and untap. From both this and real world experience I ended up doing the medium: 2 nettles. The other 2 slots went to Essence warden, which drastically improves match ups where you race.
On caverns:
Very good to have when blue is common place. Chalice as well. Not worth the price tag in my opinion. With so many GB lands to choose from, I hardly feel the necessity in the current meta.
On lead vs chord:
Similar to nettles, I found that chord when played as a 4 of tended to clump my hand in the early game. I don't have the board presence to chord early, so I don't really want to see the card before Turn 3. And with 4 chords,how do u make room for lead, which can be awesome in attrition games? Again, I went for the medium, 2 leads and 3 chords, cutting a Colorless land for my 9th non creature spell. This way i enjoy the turn 2 heritage into elite into lead opener, and also reasonably consistent access to the toolbox.
On fatal push:
Well, we've been dealing with bolts and dismembers and paths. No mistake, this card is really good and makes smother a thing of the past, but I hardly feel like it's the end of the road. Abzan and Esper may make a return and what we need to really look out for is whether their numbers in the meta jump. If it does, we adjust our lists to cater for more attrition battles. More leads, dusk watch recruiters, chameleon colossus main, who knows?
What I'm saying is that we have nothing more to fear from a new 1 mana removal. If we find ourselves fighting spot removal decks more often, just pretend like you're facing an uptick in jund decks. Not much of a difference.
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I'm not being a jerk, or rude. I simply pointed out that 4 shamans is not always the way to go, and I proved my point with evidence.
I don't know why this makes you upset, you say u don't mind disagreement with a solid reason, I took the trouble to hyperlink and here you are, upset at... being proven wrong? I was even fair and highlighted 4 shaman lists that do well too, because I don't like cherrypickers.
I frankly feel like a deserve an apology for being called a jerk, because all I had done was disagree and offer evidence that contradicts your statement.
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Elves are one of the fastest decks in modern right now because of Heritage Druid. Chord allows you to pay 4 mana to pull her out of your deck at instant speed. Nettle Sentinel untaps after cast, so basically making Chord cost 1 less. Keeping that in mind for my first 4 turns of a game is worth knowing. Later Chord sets you up for a kill with EOT Ezuri/Archdruid. Or sometimes just cleans up a game with a Shaman. Game 2/3, determine weather your deck needs to be toolbox to win, or if you feel you won't have an issue casting Chord. Otherwise, side some out. I always keep 1 in unless I have sided out all Shaman of the Pack. Note* I do play 2x Lead in the sideboard.
Also really wanted to comment of Fatal Push. My opinions of Wizards choices to print this card into Standard and at the same time Modern is mixed. I won't go into detail but from a player who loves playing Elves. This is fine. Like Marc said, we already deal with bolts, paths, and dismembers. We can regen through it, redirect with spellskite, or just ignore the 1-for-1 trade and continue playing. Chameleon Colossus is a house as always. I do plan to remove my 1x Dismember in favor of 1x Fatal Push for a while. But I don't feel like I can consistently get a black source before turn 4.
Really attractive. And yea, visionary looks to be the next possible cut.
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Still hoping for an upgrade to our 2 or 3 drops with this set, not having high hopes though. Metallic Mimic seems to be the closest thing so far.
Locket of Myths looks too mana-hungry to be of use. Lead the Stampede draws slightly under 3 cards on average for 3 mana. Locket makes you pay 3 up front, and 1 for every subsequent card. You'd need to pay 6 mana total just to match Lead.
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Big Johnny.
I agree that mimic needs testing. If we are on the lead version, we will be gaining our card advantage through Lead the Stampede that Visionary, I think, can be replaced. But, I wouldn't put the full four. I will start with two mimic and one Visionary to see.
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The GB Lead Versions could probably find use for the Heroic Intervention. Locket is intriguing but I agree it may be a little too slow. The scry isn't nothing in a top deck war against control. If Push does increase the viability and amount of control decks in modern, I could definitely find myself trying it as a one of in the board but don't have high expectations.
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As for Heroic Intervention, it is probably more beneficial in a Lead/Messenger style deck then a Chord. The above poster that mentioned that it can't be chorded for is correct. Heroic Intervention as another spell is better that needs many copies of sideboard cards to insure that they get them in time. I wouldn't put this as a one of, but a 2-3 of in most boards and that means probably more beneficial in a non-chord sideboard. And I think lead works best in this vein. This could mean that a mono-green forest heavy version of Elves might be super awesome if Fatal Push slows the format down. Fracturing Gust/Reclamation Sage/Natural State/Claim, Heroic Intervention, Essence Warden/Kitchen Finks, and Scavenging Ooze/Loaming Shaman could handle most of the enchantments we would need for white. Mono-green lead/messenger builds are still the most vulnerable to combo like ad nausuem, but you can't have everything.
Chord builds still want creatures to chord for and heroic intervention isn't as good as BFT or Selfless Spirit.
This is VERY likely going to see play in combo elves (as might the new Locket of Myths)...but that discussion is being had on the "Combo Elves" forum:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/610634-combo-elves?page=17
P.S. I have no issue with the two forum's being combined again; but the community did ask for them to be seperated when I was OP and put it to a "vote". If it helps everyone to have one central "Elves" Thread/Primer, I completely understand. I had planned on continuing to OP the Combo Elves thread (with Kavselj now OP-ing this one) but will do whatever the Elf Community wants most of course.
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No one said you couldn't debate the card's inclusion in CoCo Elves. I apologize if it seemed that way. I was literally quoting and discussing Izzetmage's comments about Rishkar, Locket, etc. going into Combo Elves (as he stated with Beck/Call and/or Cloudstone Curio). I was just bringing up the fact that if anyone wanted to discuss Combo Elf lists, potential for Elf Combo decks, etc. that there was a forum for it...but also that we could combine them again if this was the "communities" wish now (as it was voted on in the past to separate them).
I think that you are right as it seems similar to Genesis Wave. They all enter at the same time, but you get to choose the order of all of the triggers. So hist ETB trigger would "ask" you to choose elves then each other creature entering "after" that would get the +1/+1 counter. I'm not a judge; but this at minimum seems like a very similar situation.
IMO, the bigger deal is you can hit it off of Lead and CoCo (and it ups your creature count for both), or tutor for it with Chord if you need it now.
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If that is true, then Metallic Mimic becomes very much a contender for the two drop slot.
Scenario 1: CoCo – Metallic Mimic + Dwynen’s Elite = Flash/7 power on board for four mana
Scenario 2: CoCo – Metallic Mimic + Archdruid = Flash/5 power/2 mana on board for four mana
Scenario 3: CoCo- Metallic Mimic + Metallic Mimic = Flash/6 power/double lord for future creatures for four mana
Scenario 4: CoCo-Metallic Mimic + Shaman of the Pack = Flash/6 power/2 damage for four mana
Even as tame as Scenerio 5: CoCo-Metallic Mimic + Nettle Sentinel = Flash/5 power for four mana.
The question comes down to, do we want a generic card or at least 1 counter on 1 creature and a power up tick (with the potential of subsequent creatures coming into play much more powerful).
BGElvesBG and BUGNissa ElvesBUG Faithful Elfer since May 1st, 2015
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If I remember correctly the ruling for Bramblewood Paragon (that is worded the same) they shouldn't get a counter since it's not a triggered ability but a replacement effect and since they enter at the same time then Metallic Mimic isn't yet on the battlefield so it's effect doesn't apply.