He's a 2-of in the deck I play, I've seen some as 3-ofs, but even with a 2-of I've had more than a few hands where I have two rotting away or one I can't play. I can regenerate maybe 1-2 others, if I have the mana up, you're right. Not bad but not a complete answer, although I'm not sure there is one.
I'm currently play testing Safe Haven as a way to combat removal and exploit ETB effects. Tried it out for the first time tonight and the impression I got is that its too slow and clunky for games with turn 3 or 4 wipes unless you're going off on turn 2 getting some damage in and saving some creatures at the same time. But in the grindy matchup I had against jund it really shined, block goyf with Elvish Visionary and Eternal Witness on back to back turns sending them both to Safe Haven can create a serious swing in momentum once its sac'd. Still haven't had the opportunity to try to exploit Shaman of the Pack.
Definitely too small a sample size to come to any conclusions, but it definitely showed some potential. Unlike Mirrorpool which I tried out a while back with Warping Wail.
I am in the process of building this deck and feel like I need the punch that Shaman of the Pack provides.
Previously I was attempting a Green/White build similar to the OP of this primer.
My problem with Green/Black is that I only own a single copy of Gilt-Leaf Palace and only one Cavern of Souls.
I am here seeking advice on correcting the manabase with this handicap in mind.
Hey guys, I've been playing Elves in modern since I got into modern almost a year ago. My main focus is usually Standard, so it took me awhile to finalize the decklist. Especially the manabase and sideboard. I've gone to FNMs and averaged about 50%. Now that the deck is pretty much complete, I'm super excited to bring it to the Face2Face 3K this Sunday. I have a few questions and internal debates, and hope you can help me resolve them. This is the current decklist:
18 lands or 19? I'm liking 18 right now... I only rarely get stuck on a 1-lander, and even then, its not always that bad. Makes my CoCos better to have 18 as well.
CoCo/CoCa/LtS split... So I'm debating between (respectively) 4/3/0, 4/3/2, 4/0/4, 4/0/3
Why I'm 4/3/0 now: I like the maindeck Chords because it allows me to go up to a full 15 sideboard cards, as well as 'cheat' with 2 additional SB cards in the main (Scooze and Rec Sage, as together they do a great job of battling a huge array of decks). I'm debating the 4/3/2 split. It may sound like too much, but 9 'go off' cards is about where I want to be.
Boreal Druid 1 of: its not there right now, but I'm thinking of adding it, subbing out either a Visionary or Nettle. This is probably simply a good move.
Nettle Sentinel: Reid Duke had an article after Pro Tour Oath where he discussed his deck choice, and made some arguments against Nettle Sentinel. (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/modern-elves/) This article is messing with my head. Thoughts on taking out Nettles for more mana dorks, or Imperius Prefect, or Joraga Warbler.
Finally, thoughts on my toolkit sideboard?
THANKS GUYS! I'll take down the 3K for the elvish horde!
Hey guys, I've been playing Elves in modern since I got into modern almost a year ago. My main focus is usually Standard, so it took me awhile to finalize the decklist. Especially the manabase and sideboard. I've gone to FNMs and averaged about 50%. Now that the deck is pretty much complete, I'm super excited to bring it to the Face2Face 3K this Sunday. I have a few questions and internal debates, and hope you can help me resolve them. This is the current decklist:
18 lands or 19? I'm liking 18 right now... I only rarely get stuck on a 1-lander, and even then, its not always that bad. Makes my CoCos better to have 18 as well.
CoCo/CoCa/LtS split... So I'm debating between (respectively) 4/3/0, 4/3/2, 4/0/4, 4/0/3
Why I'm 4/3/0 now: I like the maindeck Chords because it allows me to go up to a full 15 sideboard cards, as well as 'cheat' with 2 additional SB cards in the main (Scooze and Rec Sage, as together they do a great job of battling a huge array of decks). I'm debating the 4/3/2 split. It may sound like too much, but 9 'go off' cards is about where I want to be.
Boreal Druid 1 of: its not there right now, but I'm thinking of adding it, subbing out either a Visionary or Nettle. This is probably simply a good move.
Nettle Sentinel: Reid Duke had an article after Pro Tour Oath where he discussed his deck choice, and made some arguments against Nettle Sentinel. (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/modern-elves/) This article is messing with my head. Thoughts on taking out Nettles for more mana dorks, or Imperius Prefect, or Joraga Warbler.
Finally, thoughts on my toolkit sideboard?
THANKS GUYS! I'll take down the 3K for the elvish horde!
I'd probably change the sideboard around alot. Too many bullets, not enough actual cards. 1 Kitchen Finks isn't enough for most things (and I generally bring in my 3 in all grindy matchups and Burn). Main deck changes are up to you - I'd say play what you're most comfortable with, as changes this close to a tournament that vary the deck significantly (Chord v. Lead, dorks v Nettle.) Just be confident in the main deck.
RE: Cavern -
Cavern is key to a lot of matchups, and lets you cheat on mana. Would not advise cutting them, and would advise those without them to splash for them if they can because they make a large difference.
RE: Golgari Charm + Skite -
Personally, I haven't been impressed with either card since the loss of Twin. Easiest sideboard cuts of my life. Not sure I particularly like playing Magus of the Moon either because we play so many non basics, and its generally too slow vs Tron but perhaps it has some merit.
RE: Fresh blood -
Lots of fresh blood recently, which is good.
I could be talked into going -2 Essence Warden, +2 Finks. I've also been considering fitting in 2 Stony Silence in there somehow. Maybe -1 Dwynen, -1 Gust, +2 Stony Silence.
I am going to Tales of Adventure in Allentown, PA with this list. I tried Recruiter, but I was underwhelmed. I played this last year and I am going to try it again this year with a tweaked sideboard.
I'm currently play testing Safe Haven as a way to combat removal and exploit ETB effects. Tried it out for the first time tonight and the impression I got is that its too slow and clunky for games with turn 3 or 4 wipes unless you're going off on turn 2 getting some damage in and saving some creatures at the same time. But in the grindy matchup I had against jund it really shined, block goyf with Elvish Visionary and Eternal Witness on back to back turns sending them both to Safe Haven can create a serious swing in momentum once its sac'd. Still haven't had the opportunity to try to exploit Shaman of the Pack.
Definitely too small a sample size to come to any conclusions, but it definitely showed some potential. Unlike Mirrorpool which I tried out a while back with Warping Wail.
First I've seen this card and it looks good. Maybe a land sideboard package vs jund/grixis as Westvale abbey is also very strong in the matchup. I'll test it out!
We're still Tier 2 as per http://modernnexus.com/topdecks/ (and this thread, of course). Do you think this is wrong? I feel like every time I get into a deck it gets downgraded, heh. I'm still having fun, but recently got destroyed by Scapeshift, Jeskai Control, and Jeskai Ascendency storm/combo. Basically things running Anger of the Gods. I'd love some way to dodge that besides Chording for a Burrenton Forge-Tender.
The overwhelming presence of sweepers right now is one reason I'm wondering how BG Elves can still be considered amongst Tier 2 decks.
If you run black, Duress effects, Golgari Charm. If you run white, Interlude (additional applications VS LE, Tron), Escort, Mark of Asylum. Ezuri and Mirror Entity pull some weight.
The good part of non-creature spells is those cards stay in your hand. A silver bullet that you have on the board prior to a sweeper can be dealt with a spot removal first. This is one reason I like Spellskite as insurance in builds that run silver bullets over non-creature spells.
I run Setessan Tactics x2 in my SB right now, and for those who encounter LE, I bring it in to let my creatures fight against eachother in resp to the LE. The card is very efficient in many MUs :
- interacts with Affinity while being able to protect your team from Whipflare,
- breaks the mirror,
- stop Melira's and Kiki's combos,
- decent against Infect and Zoo.
I easily figure it's better than the weaker Dromoka's Command or Golgari Charm for creature MUs, less narrow than Viscera Seer, and on top of that some lists performed with the card in their SBs.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I'm currently play testing Safe Haven as a way to combat removal and exploit ETB effects. Tried it out for the first time tonight and the impression I got is that its too slow and clunky for games with turn 3 or 4 wipes unless you're going off on turn 2 getting some damage in and saving some creatures at the same time. But in the grindy matchup I had against jund it really shined, block goyf with Elvish Visionary and Eternal Witness on back to back turns sending them both to Safe Haven can create a serious swing in momentum once its sac'd. Still haven't had the opportunity to try to exploit Shaman of the Pack.
Definitely too small a sample size to come to any conclusions, but it definitely showed some potential. Unlike Mirrorpool which I tried out a while back with Warping Wail.
First I've seen this card and it looks good. Maybe a land sideboard package vs jund/grixis as Westvale abbey is also very strong in the matchup. I'll test it out!
Why the hell would you play a land that doesn't even provide colorless mana? If you are looking for those kinds of effects I'd rather play Ghostway
Because it's reusable. I wouldnt slot it in in place of a land, I'd treat it like an enchantment or spell, probably replace a nettle with it.
I also don't have to leave 3 mana up, one of which is my third color with only a handful of sources main deck. 2 colorless is easy enough and land destruction isnt prevalent enough for me to worry about it much.
Besides fogging a few blocks, and double dipping on etbs is nice and the obviously powerful synergy with dumping 5 dudes and flipping Westvale during upkeep to crawl back into the game after you hit like 4-5 lands and go 9+ turns into a game (which happens a lot when I play against Jund).
I think it's worth considering at the very least. The effect can't be countered by spells that target spells, and that's just another angel for the deck to win with.
Ezuri pump, elf beats, shaman drains, Westvale flip, one shot effect to gas up on ETB triggers again. Heck if there was a reliable way to get a glistner elf through on Abzan coco I'd probably give it a whirl too; I'm always down to try new things.
Because it's reusable. I wouldnt slot it in in place of a land, I'd treat it like an enchantment or spell, probably replace a nettle with it.
I also don't have to leave 3 mana up, one of which is my third color with only a handful of sources main deck. 2 colorless is easy enough and land destruction isnt prevalent enough for me to worry about it much.
Besides fogging a few blocks, and double dipping on etbs is nice and the obviously powerful synergy with dumping 5 dudes and flipping Westvale during upkeep to crawl back into the game after you hit like 4-5 lands and go 9+ turns into a game (which happens a lot when I play against Jund).
I think it's worth considering at the very least. The effect can't be countered by spells that target spells, and that's just another angel for the deck to win with.
Ezuri pump, elf beats, shaman drains, Westvale flip, one shot effect to gas up on ETB triggers again. Heck if there was a reliable way to get a glistner elf through on Abzan coco I'd probably give it a whirl too; I'm always down to try new things.
No, it isn't reusable, sack and gone...
You can exile more than one creature? Yeah the return is one shot but it's up to the user to fire it off at a good time. I certainly don't feel like ghostway or eerie interlude offer the same ease of access or control of when you pull the trigger. They're purely reactionary.
I think it's viable to at least test it out before making judgment, especially for low impact cards against certain matchups.
Not at all taken personal! If it wasn't for people pointing out bad interactions and subpar cards to me before and to come I'd be a far worse magic player lol.
I do agree with you that it's clunky, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of our options are clunky. Kind of how I looked at it was a this quick list:
1. Chord for forge tender is 4 open mana.
2. Coco after the wipe resolves is 4 open mana.
3. Chord for ezuri is 6 open mana, plus regen mana.
4. Chord for dauntless escort is 6 mana
5. Playing forge tender takes a white mana.
7. Warping wail is two mana and one is colorless.
8. Westvale flip is 5 mana AND 5 dudes (ugh).
9. Golgari charm is 2 open mana but it's color intensive.
10. Safe haven is two mana of any color and a time walk.
11. There's other stuff like stetssan tactics that I've yet to try, but I see similar issues here as well in just leaving mana open. Heck I tried fresh meat for these matches before flaying tendrils was printed to find a way to stay aggressive after non anger wipes. My opponents were able to interact with it too easily unfortunately and I scrapped it.
None of these are particularly exciting tbh and they all feel very ineffective at dealing with the decks biggest hurdles (breaking past 2 or 3 toughness to survive relevant wipes). Soft wipes are the pits but the deck would feel pretty bonkers if we didn't have to fight through them.
The sooner I can apply pressure the better, the less mana I have to leave up the better, and the bigger the effect the better. Honestly hitting dauntless escort off of coco is probably the most gravy for the above options imp but he's expensive and not something you want to draw and I don't see mana people put him in the 75.
Why the hell would you play a land that doesn't even provide colorless mana? If you are looking for those kinds of effects I'd rather play Ghostway
My Safe Havens are the 19th and 20th lands in my deck, but I consider them to be 0 cmc enchantments. Most CoCo Elf decks run 18 lands and because of that they often miss their land drop turn 3 or 4, so why not take advantage of that. Not to mention it can't be countered, although you'll want nothing to do with it when you see a Ghost Quarter. It also saves you from adding another color to your mana base if you want the effect and you're not already playing white.
Cards like Ghostway and Eerie Interlude are better suited to deal with board wipes while exploiting ETB effects and due to their instant speed you shouldn't run into the same summoning sickness issues as you would with Safe Haven. In the matchups that you're against a lot of single target removal or need blockers is where it really shines as straight card advantage. If you have two mana to spare why just let a Elvish Visionary go to the graveyard after chump blocking or Ezuri, Renegade Leader get exiled after its Path to Exiled.
I'm still in the early stages of play testing the card, but its already proven to be extremely powerful in the right situation. Had it out for two turns put 4 mana into it and got back two free blocks, 2 creatures, drew a card, and put a card from my graveyard to my hand. That being said its going to have to show some consistency to creep into my 75 that I would take to a major tournament.
I run only 2 Caverns. Was trying 4 but i had to mulligan hands wthout green mana for coco/lead very often.
I'd be curious to see your deck list. With all the mana dorks in our deck this hasn't been an issue for me in the past. Elvish Visionary really helps when you have 1 land in your opening hand so you may want to run 4 if you're not already. How many of your lands produce green mana?
I've been a lurker in this thread for a long time now, and finally decided to come out and join the conversation.
I've been playing Magic for about 3 years now, I started with casual EDH, got into Modern with U-Tron, and grew, until I stumbled across a video of someone playing elves. I was instantly in love, and began acquiring the pieces. I started with CoCo/Chord elves, and I really loved it. But I decided I wanted to try the Curio Combo version, and I love it so much more. It feels a lot more flexible, a lot more forgiving, and a lot sturdier than when I played CoCo/Chord. It has an easier time surviving boardwipes, and reliably kills turns 4-5, but has the capability to win on turn 3. The best I've ever done was a turn 2 kill though. I don't think it can get any better than that.
I've been playing this build for... probably 5 months now, and it's always treated me very well.
Anyway, here's my list. It's also in my signature as well.
EDH RGURiku of Two ReflectionsRGU (Combo / Creature Toolbox) BWKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWB (Control / Aggro) GWSelvala, Explorer ReturnedWG (Goodstuff) RUWNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR (Superfriends)
Well there is the mono-green stand buy, Wrap in Vigor. It only requires 2 mana, but it requires keeping mana open and in your hand. I still think it might be better for mono-green lists or mono-green Abzan lists. It isn't the best card like the multi-puropose Golgari Charm, but it sill preserves the boardwipe recovery function.
I looked, but didn't see another thread for Elves... Well, sorry about that. I'll meander on over and see if I can locate it.
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MODERN GBCombo ElvesBG UExtra TurnsU UWCheeriosWU
EDH RGURiku of Two ReflectionsRGU (Combo / Creature Toolbox) BWKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWB (Control / Aggro) GWSelvala, Explorer ReturnedWG (Goodstuff) RUWNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR (Superfriends)
EDH RGURiku of Two ReflectionsRGU (Combo / Creature Toolbox) BWKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWB (Control / Aggro) GWSelvala, Explorer ReturnedWG (Goodstuff) RUWNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR (Superfriends)
No problem! We aren't trying to drive you away per se, it's just that this version (with Collected Company) has had more success, and more people are working on improving it. It diverges quite a bit from the combo strategy, so it helps to have two different threads.
I'm a bit iffy on the land choices; I'm not sure if it's right to have the fetches or to just run 4 Forest, 1 Swamp, 2 Overgrown Tomb or something like that. Otherwise I like how the deck is playing, at least on XMage! I had a great play where I Chorded in Ezuri in response to an Oblivion Stone, protected most of my Elves, so that the next turn I could come in and swing with the team for the win. Felt good.
I don't feel driven away at all, haha. I can definitely attest to the builds working differently - I've played both version a LOT, I just happen to prefer the Curio version.
Though, I do admit, I love having a bunch of 1-of silver bullets in the side to Chord for... I just like the faster wins of combo - less time to get Wrath'd, Pyroclasm'd, and Ugin'd. I haven't played in anything like a PPTQ or PTQ or anything like that, my experience has only been at FNM, and people there are pretty afraid of elves since I stomp most people flat.
My meta is pretty diverse, but there's a lot of Zoo (Midrange with Knight of the Reliquary, as well as Little Zoo), Abzan CoCo, we've got a few Tron players, both U-Tron and GR-Tron, we have an Eggs player, a Merfolk player, several Jund decks, one or two Eldrazi, a Bogles or two, an Infect or two, some budget Red Deck Wins... You get the point. I'm just saying I'm definitely not a "top teir" competitive player, but I've got a lot of local experience.
Your list looks good, I don't have many complaints with it. How does the white splash treat you? I found I preferred just G/B for consistency reasons. Also, why not 4 Caverns? I see absolutely 0 reasons to not go any less than four, unless budget is a thing. You have Horizon Canopy there too, so I assume it's not. I preferred Craterhoof over Mirror Entity myself, but I can see how it works there. Do you like it?
Also, have you ever considered Umbral Mantle to combo out with Archdruid? It might be a little more on the expensive side CMC-wise, but it equips for 0, and if you have 4 or more elves on board, gives you infinite mana to work with.
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MODERN GBCombo ElvesBG UExtra TurnsU UWCheeriosWU
EDH RGURiku of Two ReflectionsRGU (Combo / Creature Toolbox) BWKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWB (Control / Aggro) GWSelvala, Explorer ReturnedWG (Goodstuff) RUWNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR (Superfriends)
Reasons not to have 4 Caverns: can't pay green for CoCo/Lead the Stampede/Ezuri, Blood Moon (or my own Magus of the Moon), Ghost Quarter, etc. Horizon Canopy can cantrip before a Blood Moon / Magus resolves and can pay green.
I don't like adding anything that isn't a creature or the 7-8 spells because it increases the chance of a failed CoCo or Lead the Stampede. Which is why all my silver bullets are creatures, too, even though Golgari Charm, Beast Within, Choke, and the like are really great. It may be the wrong choice, though, and I'm open to hearing other opinions about it.
I'm not really splashing white maindeck, since Mirror Entity counts as an elf. The only two 'difficult' creatures I have sideboarded are the Forge-Tender and Magus of the Moon. I can either Chord or CoCo into them, or (worst choice) I can name them with Cavern.
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
BG Collected Company Elves
Legacy
W Death and Taxes
EDH
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons
GW Saffi Eriksdotter
Definitely too small a sample size to come to any conclusions, but it definitely showed some potential. Unlike Mirrorpool which I tried out a while back with Warping Wail.
I am in the process of building this deck and feel like I need the punch that Shaman of the Pack provides.
Previously I was attempting a Green/White build similar to the OP of this primer.
My problem with Green/Black is that I only own a single copy of Gilt-Leaf Palace and only one Cavern of Souls.
I am here seeking advice on correcting the manabase with this handicap in mind.
My only thought was to go the "fetch into Overgrown Tombs" route - however I don't own any Verdant Catacombs and likely never will until their mythical reprint.
I do own a playset of:
Windswept Heath and Wooded Foothills.
Perhaps I can craft a manabase of x3 Overgrown Tomb with x4 Windswept Heath to fetch them? Supplemented with x1 Cavern of Souls and x1 Gilt-Leaf Palace?
Any help here would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Do you mean x8 Fetch (such as x4 Windswept Heath and x4 Wooded Foothills)
Or do you mean x4 Windswept Heath and x4 Overgrown Tomb?
I'm actually trying to build a Warrior build with Æther Vial and Lush Growth (for Forestwalk) to play a bit like Merfolk.
Any feedback is welcome.
Here it is:
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Bramblewood Paragon
4x Dwynen's Elite
4x Talara's Battalion
4x Wren's Run Vanquisher
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Elvish Champion
2x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3x Imperious Perfect
4x Lush Growth
Artifact (4)
4x Æther Vial
Land (19)
13x Forest
4x Mutavault
2x Cavern of Souls
2x Beast Within
2x Essence Warden
3x Reclamation Sage
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Wrap in Vigor
3x Dismember
I wonder if Scattershot Archer and Chameleon Colossus can be relevant as sideboard cards
and whether or not Hurricane can be a finisher option.
4x Elvish Archdruid
4x Llanowar Elves
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Dwynen's Elite
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Heritage Druid
4x Elvish Visionary
3x Shaman of the Pack
2x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
Spells:
4x Collected Company
3x Chord of Calling
Lands (18):
4x Cavern of Souls
2x Razorverge Thicket
2x Gilt-Leaf Palace
2x Horizon Canopy
3x Forest
2x Windswept Heath
1x Pendlehaven
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Temple Garden
1x Spellskite
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Burrenton Forge Tender
2x Essence Warden
1x Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Dwen
1x Elvish Champion
1x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Scagenging Ooze
1x Dauntless Escort
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
2x Fracturing Gust
Here are my questions / debates:
18 lands or 19? I'm liking 18 right now... I only rarely get stuck on a 1-lander, and even then, its not always that bad. Makes my CoCos better to have 18 as well.
CoCo/CoCa/LtS split... So I'm debating between (respectively) 4/3/0, 4/3/2, 4/0/4, 4/0/3
Why I'm 4/3/0 now: I like the maindeck Chords because it allows me to go up to a full 15 sideboard cards, as well as 'cheat' with 2 additional SB cards in the main (Scooze and Rec Sage, as together they do a great job of battling a huge array of decks). I'm debating the 4/3/2 split. It may sound like too much, but 9 'go off' cards is about where I want to be.
Boreal Druid 1 of: its not there right now, but I'm thinking of adding it, subbing out either a Visionary or Nettle. This is probably simply a good move.
Nettle Sentinel: Reid Duke had an article after Pro Tour Oath where he discussed his deck choice, and made some arguments against Nettle Sentinel. (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/modern-elves/) This article is messing with my head. Thoughts on taking out Nettles for more mana dorks, or Imperius Prefect, or Joraga Warbler.
Finally, thoughts on my toolkit sideboard?
THANKS GUYS! I'll take down the 3K for the elvish horde!
I'd probably change the sideboard around alot. Too many bullets, not enough actual cards. 1 Kitchen Finks isn't enough for most things (and I generally bring in my 3 in all grindy matchups and Burn). Main deck changes are up to you - I'd say play what you're most comfortable with, as changes this close to a tournament that vary the deck significantly (Chord v. Lead, dorks v Nettle.) Just be confident in the main deck.
RE: Cavern -
Cavern is key to a lot of matchups, and lets you cheat on mana. Would not advise cutting them, and would advise those without them to splash for them if they can because they make a large difference.
RE: Golgari Charm + Skite -
Personally, I haven't been impressed with either card since the loss of Twin. Easiest sideboard cuts of my life. Not sure I particularly like playing Magus of the Moon either because we play so many non basics, and its generally too slow vs Tron but perhaps it has some merit.
RE: Fresh blood -
Lots of fresh blood recently, which is good.
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Temple Garden
1 Westvale Abbey
1 Pendelhaven
4 Forest
Creatures
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Mirror Entity
4 Sylvan Messenger
1 Chord of Calling
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Pay No Heed
2 Path to Exile
Or I was planning something more traditional
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Mirror Entity
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Sylvan Messenger
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Collected Company
First I've seen this card and it looks good. Maybe a land sideboard package vs jund/grixis as Westvale abbey is also very strong in the matchup. I'll test it out!
The overwhelming presence of sweepers right now is one reason I'm wondering how BG Elves can still be considered amongst Tier 2 decks.
If you run black, Duress effects, Golgari Charm. If you run white, Interlude (additional applications VS LE, Tron), Escort, Mark of Asylum. Ezuri and Mirror Entity pull some weight.
The good part of non-creature spells is those cards stay in your hand. A silver bullet that you have on the board prior to a sweeper can be dealt with a spot removal first. This is one reason I like Spellskite as insurance in builds that run silver bullets over non-creature spells.
I run Setessan Tactics x2 in my SB right now, and for those who encounter LE, I bring it in to let my creatures fight against eachother in resp to the LE. The card is very efficient in many MUs :
- interacts with Affinity while being able to protect your team from Whipflare,
- breaks the mirror,
- stop Melira's and Kiki's combos,
- decent against Infect and Zoo.
I easily figure it's better than the weaker Dromoka's Command or Golgari Charm for creature MUs, less narrow than Viscera Seer, and on top of that some lists performed with the card in their SBs.
Because it's reusable. I wouldnt slot it in in place of a land, I'd treat it like an enchantment or spell, probably replace a nettle with it.
I also don't have to leave 3 mana up, one of which is my third color with only a handful of sources main deck. 2 colorless is easy enough and land destruction isnt prevalent enough for me to worry about it much.
Besides fogging a few blocks, and double dipping on etbs is nice and the obviously powerful synergy with dumping 5 dudes and flipping Westvale during upkeep to crawl back into the game after you hit like 4-5 lands and go 9+ turns into a game (which happens a lot when I play against Jund).
I think it's worth considering at the very least. The effect can't be countered by spells that target spells, and that's just another angel for the deck to win with.
Ezuri pump, elf beats, shaman drains, Westvale flip, one shot effect to gas up on ETB triggers again. Heck if there was a reliable way to get a glistner elf through on Abzan coco I'd probably give it a whirl too; I'm always down to try new things.
You can exile more than one creature? Yeah the return is one shot but it's up to the user to fire it off at a good time. I certainly don't feel like ghostway or eerie interlude offer the same ease of access or control of when you pull the trigger. They're purely reactionary.
I think it's viable to at least test it out before making judgment, especially for low impact cards against certain matchups.
I do agree with you that it's clunky, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of our options are clunky. Kind of how I looked at it was a this quick list:
1. Chord for forge tender is 4 open mana.
2. Coco after the wipe resolves is 4 open mana.
3. Chord for ezuri is 6 open mana, plus regen mana.
4. Chord for dauntless escort is 6 mana
5. Playing forge tender takes a white mana.
7. Warping wail is two mana and one is colorless.
8. Westvale flip is 5 mana AND 5 dudes (ugh).
9. Golgari charm is 2 open mana but it's color intensive.
10. Safe haven is two mana of any color and a time walk.
11. There's other stuff like stetssan tactics that I've yet to try, but I see similar issues here as well in just leaving mana open. Heck I tried fresh meat for these matches before flaying tendrils was printed to find a way to stay aggressive after non anger wipes. My opponents were able to interact with it too easily unfortunately and I scrapped it.
None of these are particularly exciting tbh and they all feel very ineffective at dealing with the decks biggest hurdles (breaking past 2 or 3 toughness to survive relevant wipes). Soft wipes are the pits but the deck would feel pretty bonkers if we didn't have to fight through them.
The sooner I can apply pressure the better, the less mana I have to leave up the better, and the bigger the effect the better. Honestly hitting dauntless escort off of coco is probably the most gravy for the above options imp but he's expensive and not something you want to draw and I don't see mana people put him in the 75.
My Safe Havens are the 19th and 20th lands in my deck, but I consider them to be 0 cmc enchantments. Most CoCo Elf decks run 18 lands and because of that they often miss their land drop turn 3 or 4, so why not take advantage of that. Not to mention it can't be countered, although you'll want nothing to do with it when you see a Ghost Quarter. It also saves you from adding another color to your mana base if you want the effect and you're not already playing white.
Cards like Ghostway and Eerie Interlude are better suited to deal with board wipes while exploiting ETB effects and due to their instant speed you shouldn't run into the same summoning sickness issues as you would with Safe Haven. In the matchups that you're against a lot of single target removal or need blockers is where it really shines as straight card advantage. If you have two mana to spare why just let a Elvish Visionary go to the graveyard after chump blocking or Ezuri, Renegade Leader get exiled after its Path to Exiled.
I'm still in the early stages of play testing the card, but its already proven to be extremely powerful in the right situation. Had it out for two turns put 4 mana into it and got back two free blocks, 2 creatures, drew a card, and put a card from my graveyard to my hand. That being said its going to have to show some consistency to creep into my 75 that I would take to a major tournament.
I'd be curious to see your deck list. With all the mana dorks in our deck this hasn't been an issue for me in the past. Elvish Visionary really helps when you have 1 land in your opening hand so you may want to run 4 if you're not already. How many of your lands produce green mana?
I've been a lurker in this thread for a long time now, and finally decided to come out and join the conversation.
I've been playing Magic for about 3 years now, I started with casual EDH, got into Modern with U-Tron, and grew, until I stumbled across a video of someone playing elves. I was instantly in love, and began acquiring the pieces. I started with CoCo/Chord elves, and I really loved it. But I decided I wanted to try the Curio Combo version, and I love it so much more. It feels a lot more flexible, a lot more forgiving, and a lot sturdier than when I played CoCo/Chord. It has an easier time surviving boardwipes, and reliably kills turns 4-5, but has the capability to win on turn 3. The best I've ever done was a turn 2 kill though. I don't think it can get any better than that.
I've been playing this build for... probably 5 months now, and it's always treated me very well.
Anyway, here's my list. It's also in my signature as well.
1 Beastcaller Savant
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Dwynen's Elite
2 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Shaman of the Pack
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Pendelhaven
7 Snow-Covered Forest
Sorcery (5)
2 Genesis Wave
3 Lead the Stampede
Artifact (3)
3 Cloudstone Curio
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
2 Fracturing Gust
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Shaman of the Pack
MODERN
GBCombo ElvesBG
UExtra TurnsU
UWCheeriosWU
EDH
RGURiku of Two ReflectionsRGU (Combo / Creature Toolbox)
BWKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWB (Control / Aggro)
GWSelvala, Explorer ReturnedWG (Goodstuff)
RUWNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR (Superfriends)
MODERN
GBCombo ElvesBG
UExtra TurnsU
UWCheeriosWU
EDH
RGURiku of Two ReflectionsRGU (Combo / Creature Toolbox)
BWKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWB (Control / Aggro)
GWSelvala, Explorer ReturnedWG (Goodstuff)
RUWNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR (Superfriends)
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
BG Collected Company Elves
Legacy
W Death and Taxes
EDH
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons
GW Saffi Eriksdotter
MODERN
GBCombo ElvesBG
UExtra TurnsU
UWCheeriosWU
EDH
RGURiku of Two ReflectionsRGU (Combo / Creature Toolbox)
BWKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWB (Control / Aggro)
GWSelvala, Explorer ReturnedWG (Goodstuff)
RUWNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR (Superfriends)
Here's the list I'm running:
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Forest
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Pendelhaven
3 Windswept Heath
Spells (7)
4 Collected Company
3 Lead the Stampede
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
1 Mirror Entity
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Shaman of the Pack
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Chord of Calling
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Essence Warden
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Tajuru Preserver
I'm a bit iffy on the land choices; I'm not sure if it's right to have the fetches or to just run 4 Forest, 1 Swamp, 2 Overgrown Tomb or something like that. Otherwise I like how the deck is playing, at least on XMage! I had a great play where I Chorded in Ezuri in response to an Oblivion Stone, protected most of my Elves, so that the next turn I could come in and swing with the team for the win. Felt good.
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
BG Collected Company Elves
Legacy
W Death and Taxes
EDH
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons
GW Saffi Eriksdotter
Though, I do admit, I love having a bunch of 1-of silver bullets in the side to Chord for... I just like the faster wins of combo - less time to get Wrath'd, Pyroclasm'd, and Ugin'd. I haven't played in anything like a PPTQ or PTQ or anything like that, my experience has only been at FNM, and people there are pretty afraid of elves since I stomp most people flat.
My meta is pretty diverse, but there's a lot of Zoo (Midrange with Knight of the Reliquary, as well as Little Zoo), Abzan CoCo, we've got a few Tron players, both U-Tron and GR-Tron, we have an Eggs player, a Merfolk player, several Jund decks, one or two Eldrazi, a Bogles or two, an Infect or two, some budget Red Deck Wins... You get the point. I'm just saying I'm definitely not a "top teir" competitive player, but I've got a lot of local experience.
Your list looks good, I don't have many complaints with it. How does the white splash treat you? I found I preferred just G/B for consistency reasons. Also, why not 4 Caverns? I see absolutely 0 reasons to not go any less than four, unless budget is a thing. You have Horizon Canopy there too, so I assume it's not. I preferred Craterhoof over Mirror Entity myself, but I can see how it works there. Do you like it?
Also, have you ever considered Umbral Mantle to combo out with Archdruid? It might be a little more on the expensive side CMC-wise, but it equips for 0, and if you have 4 or more elves on board, gives you infinite mana to work with.
MODERN
GBCombo ElvesBG
UExtra TurnsU
UWCheeriosWU
EDH
RGURiku of Two ReflectionsRGU (Combo / Creature Toolbox)
BWKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWB (Control / Aggro)
GWSelvala, Explorer ReturnedWG (Goodstuff)
RUWNarset, Enlightened MasterWUR (Superfriends)
I don't like adding anything that isn't a creature or the 7-8 spells because it increases the chance of a failed CoCo or Lead the Stampede. Which is why all my silver bullets are creatures, too, even though Golgari Charm, Beast Within, Choke, and the like are really great. It may be the wrong choice, though, and I'm open to hearing other opinions about it.
I'm not really splashing white maindeck, since Mirror Entity counts as an elf. The only two 'difficult' creatures I have sideboarded are the Forge-Tender and Magus of the Moon. I can either Chord or CoCo into them, or (worst choice) I can name them with Cavern.
BW Eldrazi & Taxes
BG Collected Company Elves
Legacy
W Death and Taxes
EDH
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons
GW Saffi Eriksdotter