It is for the UW control thread because UW control can't use that card. By definition, once you are using that card you are on esper control. Not a bad thing, just not a discussion for this thread. Maybe direct them to the esper thread if people want to talk about options available to esper?
It is for the UW control thread because UW control can't use that card. By definition, once you are using that card you are on esper control. Not a bad thing, just not a discussion for this thread. Maybe direct them to the esper thread if people want to talk about options available to esper?
I'm in love with myth realized. Abzan has been my hardest matchup as lily can be a beating and abrupt decay exists.
Playing this tonight to give myth a spin. Open to suggestions in the SB that could help against abzan
Not a fan of Geist. He's good in certain matchups, but for the most part the meta is fairly creature-heavy and he gets chumped all day long. He's better in a tempo/UWR control list that can clear the way for him.
EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
Sorry if it wasn't clear, but the right-most section is the sideboard. I find geist is an excellent threat against decks that I don't need to be playing verdicts. Thanks.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
While myth realized is a cool card, I don't think it would fit for me. I personally don't cards in control decks that don't pull you ahead on cards, or deal with boardstate or stack control. I understand MRealized is an awesome threat that gets bigger fast and is cheap etc, but for me it's a threat card only, and I don't dig those kinds of cards in control for myself. But if it works for you, hey, do what works.
As for how to beat Abzan, I totally second big Elspeth. I used to maindeck her just for that matchup, and even though she's no longer in my starting 60, I would never cut her from the sideboard. The -3 usually kills Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Tasigur and Siege Rhino-aka almost all of their threats. They never see it coming before they see it, so they often won't play around it. Finally, the tokens are great against Liliana, and provide a solid clock so you don't just die to a few Rhinos off the top. The only cards in their deck that deal with her are Maelstrom Pulse, which they usually side out if you're not running an especially planeswalker-heavy build, and Lingering Souls, which is pretty hard to deal with but hey, being good against 56/60 cards is pretty solid. And it does sometimes make them overextend into a wrath.
elspeth is good, but I like batterskull and baneslayer as well.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
elspeth is good, but I like batterskull and baneslayer as well.
Gideon Jura seems a lot better against Abzan than Batterskull does. Batterskull is just smaller than every creature they run other than Scavenging Ooze.
batterskull is smaller, but if you throw it on any random snapcaster, clique, resto, or finks, hell, even wall of omens, it becomes formidable. I like it against abzan from straight UW; I like it less against abzan for esper because esper has fewer dudes, but it does do double duty in esper because it's also easily cast under blood moon, making it relevant for some matchups in that regard. I think it's a necessary evil, particularly while abzan is playing paths to make wurmcoil a non-starter.
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Yes, I am a local area mod. WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
Primary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Beat Zoo Hexproof deck (mainboard Thruns and Trolls and other hexproof guys that make me sad) and swept Affinity. Lost to the eventual winner (Zoo) after he top-decked Lightning Bolt in both games after I stabilized. Sometimes you can't beat luck.
I really dislike the Remands and Logic Knots because early game they really don't do much. I need something that can outright counter the early stuff rather than delaying it/making me jump through hoops. I'm going to try 4 Rune Snag in their place.
Not sure if I'm gonna keep on the UW Control train on Friday or if I'm gonna starting slinging Cruel Ultimatums everywhere. We will see.
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
batterskull is smaller, but if you throw it on any random snapcaster, clique, resto, or finks, hell, even wall of omens, it becomes formidable. I like it against abzan from straight UW; I like it less against abzan for esper because esper has fewer dudes, but it does do double duty in esper because it's also easily cast under blood moon, making it relevant for some matchups in that regard. I think it's a necessary evil, particularly while abzan is playing paths to make wurmcoil a non-starter.
Batterskull makes sense in the versions that are almost Midrange, but in the traditional control versions it is pretty bad against Junk.
I'd go a little deeper than that, at least in my meta.
Wall of Omens is comically bad here. I played on a tournament Saturday in my LGS, and it was bad almost all the matches (with the exception of Infect). I'll post a report later when I get home.
My changes to this list would be:
-1 Wall of Omens
-1 Restoration Angel
-1 Jace, Architecht of Thought
-3 Serum Visions
-1 Azorius Charm
Wall of Omens is metadependent. I think its a concession to a large tourney and the chance to see some aggro/Burn variant is more than plausible. A single Negate is a great idea though. I am not sure about Cryptic Command, I typically play 2-3, almost never four. Four Scmages is really pushing it. I want to see about 1-2 per game, but then again I am not running a super high spell density either. I do mainboard ESChampion, she is just a great bomb and very tough to remove, and the wrath or token army is powerful. I love Anticipate personally, it has never let me down, even if it the top 3 were not what I wanted, it still helps clear the topdeck for something fresh to be drawn, and that really helps a lot. I love Restoration Angel, and in his build four is legit since he has so many targets to retrigger for value.
Beat Zoo Hexproof deck (mainboard Thruns and Trolls and other hexproof guys that make me sad) and swept Affinity. Lost to the eventual winner (Zoo) after he top-decked Lightning Bolt in both games after I stabilized. Sometimes you can't beat luck.
I really dislike the Remands and Logic Knots because early game they really don't do much. I need something that can outright counter the early stuff rather than delaying it/making me jump through hoops. I'm going to try 4 Rune Snag in their place.
Not sure if I'm gonna keep on the UW Control train on Friday or if I'm gonna starting slinging Cruel Ultimatums everywhere. We will see.
Well only 4 fetchlands will make Logic Knot much worse. I think the card is excellent in a heavy fetcland deck. Remand is only good agsinst twin and abzan. The rest of the decks in the meta drops spells much to quickly for remand to be effective.
Heyy Punksterbass thanks for the shoutout that was my list. I thought about Anticipate but I didn't have any time to test it before the tournament. I've liked a 3/3 split with a few of each since then. And Wall definitely isn't the worst, even when it's bad it cantrips and makes Resto way better. Plus you can Path it for a land when both of them are at their worst (Scapeshift, etc.).
It is amazing how similar the UW and Esper control decks are becoming. The decks share a lot of common cards and the playstyle seems be identical. Even the answers/wincons that people are leaning towards (ie Elspeth, Sun's Champion) are starting to merge.
It's coming down to Esper Charms added and some situationally decent sideboard cards, and my personal weirdo funky card in Blood Baron of Vizkopa (pretty awesome versus Junk). For the most part its all about Esper Charms for the black splash. I love Esper charm, but I like the fact UW Control can play 4 nonbasic land hate cards maindeck as in ghost quarter/tectonic edge. I also still like using the Restoration Angel/Wall of Omens. Sure, wall isnt the best card ever and is bad in some matches like Twin/Scapeshift/Tron but I think more often than not wall of omens will be better than one might think, and it at least draws a card or as stated before, you can path it to ramp. Restoration angel I find quite good as she can create decent pressure, retrigger walls or scmages and she beats a fair amount of things in combat, and having flash has synergy with instants. If I didn't play wall of omens, I'd probably cut Restoration Angel to be honest, and then I'd either play Think Twices in wall of omens slots, when coupled with Anticipate is a lot of draw and digging power which I am not opposed to.
Part of Magic is brewing to see what works and what doesn't, to see what can push an archetype over the edge. It's worthwhile to see if Scorn can be a relevant player in a UW control deck. However, if you're basically relying on Mutavault to satisfy the cost you may as well just play Cancel, because that's what Scorn becomes. Ojutai is nice, but its just extremely slow. I do like the Sprites and the overlap with the 'vaults; it reminds me of that Merfolk brew Caleb published last week on Channel Fireball. And on their own they're counterspells that can apply pressure at the same time.
Although the question remains is this Control, or more of a midrangey/tempo deck? Either way, some playtesting may be worthwhile. Do we know what he beat in the Top 8? Or any other metagame breakdowns from that tournament?
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
I am glad to see someone at least try out DLOjutai at least. As a 5 drop he has a lot to compete against in Gideon, Batterskull, Baneslayer Angel in UW Control but he can generate some card selection at the least and has hexproof while untapped. The deck seems more like midrange, and I like the little recursion package with SoLaS. SScorn seems like a fun card to try at least with DLOjutai and mutavaults. It seems the more midrange blend type of Control hybrids are doing a bit better overall, with the value creatures as a way to generate advantage.
I am glad to see someone at least try out DLOjutai at least. As a 5 drop he has a lot to compete against in Gideon, Batterskull, Baneslayer Angel in UW Control but he can generate some card selection at the least and has hexproof while untapped. The deck seems more like midrange, and I like the little recursion package with SoLaS. SScorn seems like a fun card to try at least with DLOjutai and mutavaults. It seems the more midrange blend type of Control hybrids are doing a bit better overall, with the value creatures as a way to generate advantage.
One would think that Scorn would be better off in an Esper shell where you can use Nameless Inversion as a pseudo-Disfigure that you can reveal as a Dragon. Throw in your playset of Mutavaults along with a couple Ojutai, maybe an Icefall Regent, and you have 10-11 Dragons which should be enough to reliably trigger Scorn.
But I agree on the observation that the midrangey control lists seem to be performing better than their draw-go counterparts. Which makes sense; in a format like this one, it's difficult to just sit back and aim for a long game where it's just easy to either get run over in the first few turns or have games just end out of nowhere thanks to Splinter Twin. Some sort of pressure needs to be applied, which is why I like the Spellstutter Sprite in that list, as it pulls double duty as a counterspell and as an early form of pressure/a random chump-blocker.
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EDH GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG UBRNicol Bolas and his SuperfriendsPawnsUBR
Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
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on topic
4 Flooded Strand
2 Temple of Enlightenment
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Tectonic Edge
4 Island
4 Plains
4 Myth Realized
4 Snapcaster mage
1 Jace, Architect of Thoughts
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Anticipate
1 Quicken
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Path to exile
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Cryptic Command
2 Condescend
2 Logic Knot
2 Spell Snare
2 Celestial Purge
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Wrath of God
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Runed Halo
1 wheel of sun and moon
1 detention sphere
1 Dispel
1 Shadow of doubt
1 Stony Silence
I'm in love with myth realized. Abzan has been my hardest matchup as lily can be a beating and abrupt decay exists.
Playing this tonight to give myth a spin. Open to suggestions in the SB that could help against abzan
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Not a fan of Geist. He's good in certain matchups, but for the most part the meta is fairly creature-heavy and he gets chumped all day long. He's better in a tempo/UWR control list that can clear the way for him.
Against Abzan I like to go big. Basically focus on out-topdecking them, because I know that's the way the game will go. Things like Baneslayer Angel, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Batterskull, Wurmcoil Engine. Someone earlier even suggested Ugin. Leyline of Sanctity could work to turn off their targeted discard.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
Gideon Jura seems a lot better against Abzan than Batterskull does. Batterskull is just smaller than every creature they run other than Scavenging Ooze.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
2 Gideon Jura
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Path to Exile
4 Spell Snare
4 Anticipate
4 Think Twice
2 Remand
2 Logic Knot
2 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Cryptic Command
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Calciform Pools
4 Island
3 Plains
3 Timely Reinforcements
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Stony Silence
2 Condemn
1 Batterskull
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Celestial Purge
1 Wrath of God
Beat Zoo Hexproof deck (mainboard Thruns and Trolls and other hexproof guys that make me sad) and swept Affinity. Lost to the eventual winner (Zoo) after he top-decked Lightning Bolt in both games after I stabilized. Sometimes you can't beat luck.
I really dislike the Remands and Logic Knots because early game they really don't do much. I need something that can outright counter the early stuff rather than delaying it/making me jump through hoops. I'm going to try 4 Rune Snag in their place.
MVP of the day was Timely Reinforcements. Helped me stabilize soooooo many times.
Not sure if I'm gonna keep on the UW Control train on Friday or if I'm gonna starting slinging Cruel Ultimatums everywhere. We will see.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Batterskull makes sense in the versions that are almost Midrange, but in the traditional control versions it is pretty bad against Junk.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
4 Restoration Angel
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wall of Omens
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Gideon Jura
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
5 Island
2 Plains
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Glacial Fortress
3 Hallowed Fountain
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx's Revelation
3 Serum Visions
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Spellskite
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Stony Silence
2 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wrath of God
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
Wall of Omens is comically bad here. I played on a tournament Saturday in my LGS, and it was bad almost all the matches (with the exception of Infect). I'll post a report later when I get home.
My changes to this list would be:
-1 Wall of Omens
-1 Restoration Angel
-1 Jace, Architecht of Thought
-3 Serum Visions
-1 Azorius Charm
+3 Anticipate
+1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
+1 Cryptic Command
+1 Snapcaster Mage
+1 Negate
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
Well only 4 fetchlands will make Logic Knot much worse. I think the card is excellent in a heavy fetcland deck. Remand is only good agsinst twin and abzan. The rest of the decks in the meta drops spells much to quickly for remand to be effective.
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
It is amazing how similar the UW and Esper control decks are becoming. The decks share a lot of common cards and the playstyle seems be identical. Even the answers/wincons that people are leaning towards (ie Elspeth, Sun's Champion) are starting to merge.
I think its kind of cool.
That deck is weird. I am not even sure it counts as Control and Silumgar's Scorn seems very inconsistent with only 6 dragons, 4 of which die to Bolt.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Although the question remains is this Control, or more of a midrangey/tempo deck? Either way, some playtesting may be worthwhile. Do we know what he beat in the Top 8? Or any other metagame breakdowns from that tournament?
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
One would think that Scorn would be better off in an Esper shell where you can use Nameless Inversion as a pseudo-Disfigure that you can reveal as a Dragon. Throw in your playset of Mutavaults along with a couple Ojutai, maybe an Icefall Regent, and you have 10-11 Dragons which should be enough to reliably trigger Scorn.
But I agree on the observation that the midrangey control lists seem to be performing better than their draw-go counterparts. Which makes sense; in a format like this one, it's difficult to just sit back and aim for a long game where it's just easy to either get run over in the first few turns or have games just end out of nowhere thanks to Splinter Twin. Some sort of pressure needs to be applied, which is why I like the Spellstutter Sprite in that list, as it pulls double duty as a counterspell and as an early form of pressure/a random chump-blocker.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG