If you open both Temple and Colonnade you will be upset. Colonnade is the only worthwhile tap land that can be played in this deck in my opinion. I highly recommend replaceling the Temples with shocks.
I also recommend Temple - card selection is awesome and attached to a dual producing land is great. I'm not at all unhappy to have it as a one of alongside colonnades, and plan on trying a second. I only use one Hallowed Fountain, because we don't need more than one. Glacial Fortress is where its at. I run one Mystic gate to help cast finks, but otherwise dislike the card because it can lead to mulligans alongside GQ.
The shock is simply not needed - no need to take any Xtra damage ever - fetch one HF and then your fortresses come in untapped. Even playing them tapped is okay, the only sad times are if you open with colonnade and fortress. I would never run two gates and two pools, but that depends how draw-go you are.
In the above example, I would cut one HF, one Gate, and one or both pools for Glacials
If I'm opening with a two lander, I want one to be temple more than any other land in the deck. The tap land should be easy enough to fit into the land progression since we play so many lands overall and if a keep is on the fence, the scry is very helpful there. The card selection in the general midgame and at any point against the combo matchups is strong and it comes at such a low price from a deck building standpoint. Have been very happy with two temples/1 fountain for about 6 months now.
A question for people running Mystic Gate: doesn't it happen too often that you have to mulligan because of colorless mana hands with Mystic Gate, Ghost Quarter and/or Tectonic Edge and Calciform Pools?
I'm running a single Gate in my list along with 4 Quarters, so the dreaded all-colorless hand doesn't show up too often. Given the color requirements we have though (access to double blue and/or double white turn 3, WWU or UUU turn 4) it's worth the potential inconsistency it brings imo.
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Modern UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW WUBRGHumansWUBRG BGMidrangeBG
A question for people running Mystic Gate: doesn't it happen too often that you have to mulligan because of colorless mana hands with Mystic Gate, Ghost Quarter and/or Tectonic Edge and Calciform Pools?
I'm running a single Gate in my list along with 4 Quarters, so the dreaded all-colorless hand doesn't show up too often. Given the color requirements we have though (access to double blue and/or double white turn 3, WWU or UUU turn 4) it's worth the potential inconsistency it brings imo.
Playing one has been something I'm happy with, it's probably your best land against choke/boil as well.
Re: geist, I was playing one initially just as a clock against the bad matchups, but i made it the third clique in the side since I found the interaction to be more relevant than the higher damage output and clique comes in more places.
How are your Infect matchups? I seem to be struggling against them a lot. I used to have cards like Runed Halo in my board to just completely invalidate it and Boggles, but with the way I changed things I'm relying mostly on Dispel and Negate and it's not getting the job done.
My main board is heavily slanted towards beating the aggro matchups (full compliments of Walls, Finks, etc) while trying to leave my sideboard to the more cancerous and linear lists.
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I think additional spot removal (2x) is a good thing to have in the SB...but maybe not Celestial Flare. I think it's either Condemn or Oust.
Wall of Omens is not even good against Merfolk and Inkmoth Nexus. Maybe it's personal play style - you can either clutter the board with Wall of Omens and Kitchen Finks, or you pin point removal with Condemn/Oust out of the side and Spell Snare. The metagame, however, is clearly favoring the second line of play in my opinion. Spell Snare, Condemn etc is also cheaper, making it possible to run cards like Temple of Enlightenment.
I personally would go run Flare, then Oust, then Condemn. Condemn's last because interacting during combat is not where you want to be against Infect. That's usually when they have most of their tricks. Oust, being a sorcery, is actually uniquely able to remove threats on your own terms. Flare seems best just because of how it dodges their protection spells.
Wall is subpar against Merfolk, but that has always been difficult for me even when I went with a more spot-removal heavy list. It's always been Turn 4 Wrath or Bust. He's still worth his salt against a lot of the other aggro decks out there.
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I've not posted in here for a bit - I've been jamming Knightfall and Burn mostly of late. I like to keep my Azorius Control deck up to date though - even if the build is unconventional.
Anyone else feeling like Remand is losing a bit of value in the face of eldrazi? I used to be super comfortable running 4 remand, but now that feels too vulnerable with Eldrazi showing up more and more.
I've been plugging Myth Realized as a finisher since it was printed, and still find that this style of list is better than the traditional omens/finks/resto builds. We have much more room to interact, which is important when the whole field is trying to goldfish the win. Verdict/Myth synergy is real. Another bonus is that we have space to play our best spells in playsets (cryptic, verdict, snaps).
It plays very smoothly and feels consistent, but I'm always messing with the 2- mana counters. Maindeck: More remands? condescend? negate? What spells do you guys like for the 2 cmc counter spells, and how do you split?
I dislike remand in this type of deck, of course your build is unique with Myth and may warrant its inclusion. I have 3 leak, 3 snare, 1 negate, and 1 dispel or spell pierce alongside 2 Cryptics I a shell that is more proactive with full playsets of finks and resto, 3 walls and 2 clique. I have not liked any of the other types of counterspells, with Condescend being the only one I would consider.
As for Mystic Gate, one is the most I would consider, and alongside 4 GQ as the only colorless sources I think ita acceptable risk to help hit double white turn 3 and triple blue on 4
Going in anticipating a lot of aggro, hence the Baneslayers in the board. I just want to try and make those matchups as good as possible. Part of me wants to side all three cliques to further push this plan, but the disruption is valuable.
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Going in anticipating a lot of aggro, hence the Baneslayers in the board. I just want to try and make those matchups as good as possible. Part of me wants to side all three cliques to further push this plan, but the disruption is valuable.
I feel like your list is a little TOO afraid of Aggro. The deck already has a great Aggro matchup between verdict, finks, resto, and wall. Main board spellskite seems excessive, plus the ghostly prisons in the board also seem fairly bad especially with twin out of the format. Also, runed halo seems fairly mediocre. I read earlier u are using that for infect but that seems fairly poor considering they have three different infect creatures and if they don't have access to one they have access to two more. Finally, wrath of God seems fairly pointless unless ur worried about mana requirements due to the fact that I can't think of any relevant creatures in the format that can regenerate (I definitely haven't seen a thrun in quite some time). I would switch to fourth verdict
I wouldn't say I'm afraid of aggro, just trying to make them as close to byes as possible. I always boarded in Baneslayer against aggro anyways, just consider this me pre-boarding a bit. The card is good in the Jund matchup, and actually is relevant against Eldrazi because they really don't have a lot of flying blockers. Besides, out of the 3 or 4 Modern events that have taken place since the ban list, look at the Top 16s: Infect, Burn, Zoo, Affinity, and Merfolk are all turning up in huge numbers. I just expect that trend to continue. To that end, Spellskite in the main can buy me time as a blocker, and it can just completely win Game 1s on its own if I land it against Infect or Burn. Not to mention that against BGx or the mirror it can protect my threats from removal.
Runed Halo actually has continued to impress me. Against Infect it blanks one of their creatures, meaning I have more removal to go around. I only run 4 Paths, so being able to completely ignore 4 of 12 creatures is amazing. I can facilitate that with Ghostly Prison to slow them down a lot. Prison usually is considered an anti-Twin card, but it's applicable against these aggro decks that like to go wide as well. Land one turn 3 against affinity and you have bought yourself a lot of time. Halo also has applications against combo; it's not as big a catch-all as Leyline of Sanctity, but it's Infect application makes it better.
Wrath vs. Verdict is something I've gone back and forth on. I just prefer having Wrath because I just value the no-regen clause more than being uncounterable. Even against Merfolk, there has been no difference in testing. Being able to to randomly blank a Welding Jar or something is nice.
The only things I'm considering changing would be sneaking a Disdainful Stroke or two somewhere in the board, maybe trimming the Negate. A second Dispel wouldn't the worst thing either. I could always put in Celestial Flare or Oust over Runed Halo I guess too, but then my sideboarding numbers really get messed up.
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I think runed halo is easily better than celestial flare - much more dynamic as it can help with instant reanimator, kiki combo and abzan combo as well as the more obvious bogles and infect.
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Modern Decks
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
Cut a fountain for a Glacial. I don't feel you need two mindcensors, if any. Run second dispel over second negate. Your list doesnt need elspeth, thats an open slot. Purge got a lot worse as well. I feel you should play the third clique in the side in the 75 - id likely go one main/two side.
Bribery is something im very skeptical of as well, its a 5 drop for a tiny number of matchups where it doenst even win the game when it resolves. Seas/shadow are better id think.
Cut a fountain for a Glacial. I don't feel you need two mindcensors, if any. Run second dispel over second negate. Your list doesnt need elspeth, thats an open slot. Purge got a lot worse as well. I feel you should play the third clique in the side in the 75 - id likely go one main/two side.
I like having 2 fountains. Fetchable duel sources seems better. I don't think purge got worse either. It is there for burn, jund, abzan, and storm, which are all still decks. I can agree on dispel. Also, why do u think Elspeth is not needed? It seems like s great answer to jund/abzan which I expect a lot of. I could see cutting bribery. It was something I wanted to try out, but it does seem really good against eldrazi and Tron. As for third clique, I will probably fit that in, as it was something I was considering, but I feel my main is too creature light if I don't run two main
Cut a fountain for a Glacial. I don't feel you need two mindcensors, if any. Run second dispel over second negate. Your list doesnt need elspeth, thats an open slot. Purge got a lot worse as well. I feel you should play the third clique in the side in the 75 - id likely go one main/two side.
How come the dislike of Mindcensor? It's decent against Tron/Eldrazi by disrupting their searches, and goes great with Ghost Quarter while still applying some form of pressure. There's also Kiki-Chord to consider as well.
I personally feel as though double Negate is better than double Dispel right now with Twin being gone. Dispel can't stop Karn or Ugin coming down and wrecking your day.
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Opinion: what is the right number of Cryptics? I've been on 2 most of the time. But I do keep asking myself if I shouldn't be running 3 instead.
I'm in the same quandary myself. I think 2 is more correct in a linear aggro meta like this one, but in a list like mine that is more midrange/tap out control three I think is correct because of the lack of interactivity I have. I don't have room for Mana Leak and whatnot (my personal opinion on the card notwithstanding), so Cryptic is one of my few answers to another deck's stuff. In yours, where you have a lot more interaction, I think 2 is fine.
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Cut a fountain for a Glacial. I don't feel you need two mindcensors, if any. Run second dispel over second negate. Your list doesnt need elspeth, thats an open slot. Purge got a lot worse as well. I feel you should play the third clique in the side in the 75 - id likely go one main/two side.
I like having 2 fountains. Fetchable duel sources seems better. I don't think purge got worse either. It is there for burn, jund, abzan, and storm, which are all still decks. I can agree on dispel. Also, why do u think Elspeth is not needed? It seems like s great answer to jund/abzan which I expect a lot of. I could see cutting bribery. It was something I wanted to try out, but it does seem really good against eldrazi and Tron. As for third clique, I will probably fit that in, as it was something I was considering, but I feel my main is too creature light if I don't run two main
How exactly is Bribery good against Eldrazi? When you lose out on the cast effect, most of them are big stupid vanilla creatures. If you take Ulamog, it's not terrible, but Bribery feels slow and bad. They can literally chump him with tokens and kill you on the back swing. Against Tron, you're in the same situation where they are capable of blocking Ulamog, and many lists are foregoing Emrakul in favor of Ulamog/Kozilek. I would rather have Crucible, Shadow of Doubt, Mindcensor etc
Cut a fountain for a Glacial. I don't feel you need two mindcensors, if any. Run second dispel over second negate. Your list doesnt need elspeth, thats an open slot. Purge got a lot worse as well. I feel you should play the third clique in the side in the 75 - id likely go one main/two side.
I like having 2 fountains. Fetchable duel sources seems better. I don't think purge got worse either. It is there for burn, jund, abzan, and storm, which are all still decks. I can agree on dispel. Also, why do u think Elspeth is not needed? It seems like s great answer to jund/abzan which I expect a lot of. I could see cutting bribery. It was something I wanted to try out, but it does seem really good against eldrazi and Tron. As for third clique, I will probably fit that in, as it was something I was considering, but I feel my main is too creature light if I don't run two main
How exactly is Bribery good against Eldrazi? When you lose out on the cast effect, most of them are big stupid vanilla creatures. If you take Ulamog, it's not terrible, but Bribery feels slow and bad. They can literally chump him with tokens and kill you on the back swing. Against Tron, you're in the same situation where they are capable of blocking Ulamog, and many lists are foregoing Emrakul in favor of Ulamog/Kozilek. I would rather have Crucible, Shadow of Doubt, Mindcensor etc
you said why it's good against eldrazi. Take ulamog and swing. You forget he has an attack trigger too. Even if they chump him, they are still losing 20 cards. And if they can crack back and kill you, then you were dead either way and none of the cards you listed can stop that situation. As for against tron, please do tell me what they are chumping with as the only creatures they run are the eldrazi and wurmcoil which are all easily answered by path. Also, if they are chumping with wurmcoil I'm happy. The only answer they have for their own ulamog is Karn, and the hope is that with spreading seas, mindcensor, and gq, they won't assemble tron
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Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
GUSimic MerfolkUG
WUUW ControlUW
RBUGrixis ControlUBR
BUUB MillUB
Colorless Eldrazi Tron
WRBurnRW
GUSimic MerfolkUG
UMono U TurnsU
WGGenesis Wave EnchantressGW
The shock is simply not needed - no need to take any Xtra damage ever - fetch one HF and then your fortresses come in untapped. Even playing them tapped is okay, the only sad times are if you open with colonnade and fortress. I would never run two gates and two pools, but that depends how draw-go you are.
In the above example, I would cut one HF, one Gate, and one or both pools for Glacials
I'm running a single Gate in my list along with 4 Quarters, so the dreaded all-colorless hand doesn't show up too often. Given the color requirements we have though (access to double blue and/or double white turn 3, WWU or UUU turn 4) it's worth the potential inconsistency it brings imo.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Playing one has been something I'm happy with, it's probably your best land against choke/boil as well.
Re: geist, I was playing one initially just as a clock against the bad matchups, but i made it the third clique in the side since I found the interaction to be more relevant than the higher damage output and clique comes in more places.
Sideboard for reference:
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Wrath of God
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Ghostly Prison
2 Stony Silence
My main board is heavily slanted towards beating the aggro matchups (full compliments of Walls, Finks, etc) while trying to leave my sideboard to the more cancerous and linear lists.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
I personally would go run Flare, then Oust, then Condemn. Condemn's last because interacting during combat is not where you want to be against Infect. That's usually when they have most of their tricks. Oust, being a sorcery, is actually uniquely able to remove threats on your own terms. Flare seems best just because of how it dodges their protection spells.
Wall is subpar against Merfolk, but that has always been difficult for me even when I went with a more spot-removal heavy list. It's always been Turn 4 Wrath or Bust. He's still worth his salt against a lot of the other aggro decks out there.
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UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
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friendsPawnsUBRModern
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WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Anyone else feeling like Remand is losing a bit of value in the face of eldrazi? I used to be super comfortable running 4 remand, but now that feels too vulnerable with Eldrazi showing up more and more.
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Mystic Gate
4 Island
3 Plains
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Myth Realized
4 Snapcaster mage
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Quicken
4 Path to exile
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Spell Snare
1 Dispel
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
1 Logic Knot
4 Cryptic Command
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Stony Silence
2 Runed Halo
2 Spreading Seas
2 Celestial Purge
2 Shadow of Doubt
1 Hallowed Moonlight
I've been plugging Myth Realized as a finisher since it was printed, and still find that this style of list is better than the traditional omens/finks/resto builds. We have much more room to interact, which is important when the whole field is trying to goldfish the win. Verdict/Myth synergy is real. Another bonus is that we have space to play our best spells in playsets (cryptic, verdict, snaps).
It plays very smoothly and feels consistent, but I'm always messing with the 2- mana counters. Maindeck: More remands? condescend? negate? What spells do you guys like for the 2 cmc counter spells, and how do you split?
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
As for Mystic Gate, one is the most I would consider, and alongside 4 GQ as the only colorless sources I think ita acceptable risk to help hit double white turn 3 and triple blue on 4
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/368762#paper
Seems quite strange that it went 5-0, not a list i'm a fan of at all. However, I could be wrong, what do ppl think?
Bant Eldrazi
UW Control
U Merfolk
Legacy
Merfolk
UR Delver
Only Wall of Omens as creatures, Coalition Relic, 9 Planeswalkers...
Wonder what decks it faced on its 5 rounds
Commander: WUBRG Superfriends, GW Rhys Tokens, WUBRG Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Kitchen Table (now that's real Magic): WUBRG Domain, GU Biovisionary, UB Korlash Grandeur, UW Merfolk Mill
2 Spellskite
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Restoration Angel
2 Baneslayer Angel
1 Gideon Jura
4 Path to Exile
4 Spell Snare
2 Detention Sphere
3 Cryptic Command
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Mystic Gate
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Island
3 Plains
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Runed Halo
1 Dispel
1 Wrath of God
1 Vendilion Clique
Going in anticipating a lot of aggro, hence the Baneslayers in the board. I just want to try and make those matchups as good as possible. Part of me wants to side all three cliques to further push this plan, but the disruption is valuable.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
I feel like your list is a little TOO afraid of Aggro. The deck already has a great Aggro matchup between verdict, finks, resto, and wall. Main board spellskite seems excessive, plus the ghostly prisons in the board also seem fairly bad especially with twin out of the format. Also, runed halo seems fairly mediocre. I read earlier u are using that for infect but that seems fairly poor considering they have three different infect creatures and if they don't have access to one they have access to two more. Finally, wrath of God seems fairly pointless unless ur worried about mana requirements due to the fact that I can't think of any relevant creatures in the format that can regenerate (I definitely haven't seen a thrun in quite some time). I would switch to fourth verdict
Ps hope to dodge each other at regionals lol
Runed Halo actually has continued to impress me. Against Infect it blanks one of their creatures, meaning I have more removal to go around. I only run 4 Paths, so being able to completely ignore 4 of 12 creatures is amazing. I can facilitate that with Ghostly Prison to slow them down a lot. Prison usually is considered an anti-Twin card, but it's applicable against these aggro decks that like to go wide as well. Land one turn 3 against affinity and you have bought yourself a lot of time. Halo also has applications against combo; it's not as big a catch-all as Leyline of Sanctity, but it's Infect application makes it better.
Wrath vs. Verdict is something I've gone back and forth on. I just prefer having Wrath because I just value the no-regen clause more than being uncounterable. Even against Merfolk, there has been no difference in testing. Being able to to randomly blank a Welding Jar or something is nice.
The only things I'm considering changing would be sneaking a Disdainful Stroke or two somewhere in the board, maybe trimming the Negate. A second Dispel wouldn't the worst thing either. I could always put in Celestial Flare or Oust over Runed Halo I guess too, but then my sideboarding numbers really get messed up.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
KnightfallGWUR
Azorius Control UW
Burn RBG
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Flooded Strand
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Island
2 Plains
2 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Wall of Omens
3 Restoration Angel
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Mana Leak
2 Cryptic Command
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Spell Snare
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Think Twice
2 Anticipate
2 Spreading Seas
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Dispel
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Bribery
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Celestial Purge
Cut a fountain for a Glacial. I don't feel you need two mindcensors, if any. Run second dispel over second negate. Your list doesnt need elspeth, thats an open slot. Purge got a lot worse as well. I feel you should play the third clique in the side in the 75 - id likely go one main/two side.
I like having 2 fountains. Fetchable duel sources seems better. I don't think purge got worse either. It is there for burn, jund, abzan, and storm, which are all still decks. I can agree on dispel. Also, why do u think Elspeth is not needed? It seems like s great answer to jund/abzan which I expect a lot of. I could see cutting bribery. It was something I wanted to try out, but it does seem really good against eldrazi and Tron. As for third clique, I will probably fit that in, as it was something I was considering, but I feel my main is too creature light if I don't run two main
How come the dislike of Mindcensor? It's decent against Tron/Eldrazi by disrupting their searches, and goes great with Ghost Quarter while still applying some form of pressure. There's also Kiki-Chord to consider as well.
I personally feel as though double Negate is better than double Dispel right now with Twin being gone. Dispel can't stop Karn or Ugin coming down and wrecking your day.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
I'm in the same quandary myself. I think 2 is more correct in a linear aggro meta like this one, but in a list like mine that is more midrange/tap out control three I think is correct because of the lack of interactivity I have. I don't have room for Mana Leak and whatnot (my personal opinion on the card notwithstanding), so Cryptic is one of my few answers to another deck's stuff. In yours, where you have a lot more interaction, I think 2 is fine.
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
How exactly is Bribery good against Eldrazi? When you lose out on the cast effect, most of them are big stupid vanilla creatures. If you take Ulamog, it's not terrible, but Bribery feels slow and bad. They can literally chump him with tokens and kill you on the back swing. Against Tron, you're in the same situation where they are capable of blocking Ulamog, and many lists are foregoing Emrakul in favor of Ulamog/Kozilek. I would rather have Crucible, Shadow of Doubt, Mindcensor etc