Now that Bitterblossom and Nacatl are off the hook, and neither have broken the format, I suspect more unbans around the corner.
Golgari Grave Troll
Sword of the Meek
Bloodbraid Elf
The possibilities are many
Ancestral Vision I hesitate to mention because UWR control would most likely slot it in and become even more powerful
Same with Ponder/Preordain with [twin]/Storm
I agree with GGT, MeekSword, and BBE, but I'm don't follow your logic on Ponder/Preordain or Ancestral Vision. Decks getting better isn't a negative unless they go from fair to warpingly dominating. On the balance I think it's probably fair to say that other decks that aren't competing right now (Delver, non-White U/x, Tezzerator, Faeries, etc) have more to gain from P/P or AV than the established top decks, which would means a more competitive and diverse metagame as a whole.
I also doubt that UWR control would run AV over Sphinx's Rev. The incidental life gain and better late game topdecks that Sphinx's Rev represent are substantial compared to AV. UWR midrange might run AV over Sphinx's Rev, but that version of the deck hasn't fared as well so maybe it getting some help wouldn't be a bad thing. Grixis, BUG, and other under-represented Non-white U/x decks that don't really have a good card advantage option right now might play it too.
Reason #1 is their general approach towards modern, and reason #2 is that unbans give them the possibility to shake up the format if it grows stale, in a relativly short order. Sadly the banned list is no longer operated out of necessity, but rather to accomplish other things (popularity, powerlevel regulation, etc.)
Isn't the point of the banlist power level regulation?
Reason #1 is their general approach towards modern, and reason #2 is that unbans give them the possibility to shake up the format if it grows stale, in a relativly short order. Sadly the banned list is no longer operated out of necessity, but rather to accomplish other things (popularity, powerlevel regulation, etc.)
Isn't the point of the banlist power level regulation?
No, it's not. It's supposed to be balance regulation. I know, this is a difficult distinction for some people to make, but it's a relevant ones. Things should NOT be banned for being strong(which is why a lot of people are mad at Wizards for how they are handling Modern). Things should be banned for being broken. Being "imbalanced." Cards like AncestralRecall are imbalanced. They are not conducive with the balance of magic as a whole, as 3 cards for 1 mana is far above the acceptable standards of the game. Conversely cards like Bob are strong. They are good. And should not in any case be banned by Wizards to "lower the power level of the format" just because they are good.
If something "Breaks"(this is the key word) the format, that is the only instance where a banning should occur. SDT broke timing constraints. Blazing Shoal broke infect. SFM broke Batterskull. This is why these are good bans. And bans like BBE and GGT(and formerly BB and Nacatl) are most assuredly not.
Reason #1 is their general approach towards modern, and reason #2 is that unbans give them the possibility to shake up the format if it grows stale, in a relativly short order. Sadly the banned list is no longer operated out of necessity, but rather to accomplish other things (popularity, powerlevel regulation, etc.)
Isn't the point of the banlist power level regulation?
No, it's not. It's supposed to be balance regulation. I know, this is a difficult distinction for some people to make, but it's a relevant ones. Things should NOT be banned for being strong(which is why a lot of people are mad at Wizards for how they are handling Modern). Things should be banned for being broken. Being "imbalanced." Cards like AncestralRecall are imbalanced. They are not conducive with the balance of magic as a whole, as 3 cards for 1 mana is far above the acceptable standards of the game. Conversely cards like Bob are strong. They are good. And should not in any case be banned by Wizards to "lower the power level of the format" just because they are good.
If something "Breaks"(this is the key word) the format, that is the only instance where a banning should occur. SDT broke timing constraints. Blazing Shoal broke infect. SFM broke Batterskull. This is why these are good bans. And bans like BBE and GGT(and formerly BB and Nacatl) are most assuredly not.
Reason #1 is their general approach towards modern, and reason #2 is that unbans give them the possibility to shake up the format if it grows stale, in a relativly short order. Sadly the banned list is no longer operated out of necessity, but rather to accomplish other things (popularity, powerlevel regulation, etc.)
Isn't the point of the banlist power level regulation?
No, it's not. It's supposed to be balance regulation. I know, this is a difficult distinction for some people to make, but it's a relevant ones. Things should NOT be banned for being strong(which is why a lot of people are mad at Wizards for how they are handling Modern). Things should be banned for being broken. Being "imbalanced." Cards like AncestralRecall are imbalanced. They are not conducive with the balance of magic as a whole, as 3 cards for 1 mana is far above the acceptable standards of the game. Conversely cards like Bob are strong. They are good. And should not in any case be banned by Wizards to "lower the power level of the format" just because they are good.
If something "Breaks"(this is the key word) the format, that is the only instance where a banning should occur. SDT broke timing constraints. Blazing Shoal broke infect. SFM broke Batterskull. This is why these are good bans. And bans like BBE and GGT(and formerly BB and Nacatl) are most assuredly not.
Says who? Not the DCI so far.
Said the DCI back when the original banlists(Type 1, etc) were made all those years ago. And what you're eluding to is exactly the problem, they are not following their own rules.
If something "Breaks"(this is the key word) the format, that is the only instance where a banning should occur. SDT broke timing constraints. Blazing Shoal broke infect. SFM broke Batterskull. This is why these are good bans. And bans like BBE and GGT(and formerly BB and Nacatl) are most assuredly not.
Then she started fetching singleton Umezawa's Jitte in Conley Woods' Bant brew. Also note, no swords of X and Y...not powerful enough. Also JTMS was hanging out with SFM and the world didn't end. Other than the Jitte, I could see this as a reasonable deck in Modern.
Then with Mirrodin Besieged she started grabbing Sword of Feast and Famine in Standard. Powerful, and good enough to win PT Paris, but it wasn't the most played deck in the room and it had a pretty reasonable win percentage as far as PT winning decks go, but definitely good for a Standard deck.
Misty only got absurd when Batterskull was printed, eventually going on to inspire a fistful of bannings in Modern, Extended, and Standard, all the while seeing widespread play in Legacy.
Stoneforge Mystic is a cool card. I think Modern would be a better format with the card. But Batterskull would have to go, and Jitte shouldn't come back. WotC will likely never make the mistake of printing another equipment as good as those two ever again. In fact, with the initial banned list for Modern, Jitte bought it because SFM was the more fun card. And I don't know about you, but I've never looked down a Batterskull on the other side of the table and thought "this is really fun!"
Said the DCI back when the original banlists(Type 1, etc) were made all those years ago. And what you're eluding to is exactly the problem, they are not following their own rules.
The game's obviously changed as has their use of the B/R list, specifically for Modern. Not sure why you'd cite some antiquated logic for it when it's clear they've changed course.
Stoneforge Mystic was always going to be loaded gun even without Batterskull. I can bet now that every time R&D designs a new equipment they grimace at the mere thought of her.
Regardless, I support either Stoneforge or Jace being unbanned, but never both. Hopeful Caw-blades players need to make a choice.
If something "Breaks"(this is the key word) the format, that is the only instance where a banning should occur. SDT broke timing constraints. Blazing Shoal broke infect. SFM broke Batterskull. This is why these are good bans. And bans like BBE and GGT(and formerly BB and Nacatl) are most assuredly not.
Then she started fetching singleton Umezawa's Jitte in Conley Woods' Bant brew. Also note, no swords of X and Y...not powerful enough. Also JTMS was hanging out with SFM and the world didn't end. Other than the Jitte, I could see this as a reasonable deck in Modern.
Then with Mirrodin Besieged she started grabbing Sword of Feast and Famine in Standard. Powerful, and good enough to win PT Paris, but it wasn't the most played deck in the room and it had a pretty reasonable win percentage as far as PT winning decks go, but definitely good for a Standard deck.
Misty only got absurd when Batterskull was printed, eventually going on to inspire a fistful of bannings in Modern, Extended, and Standard, all the while seeing widespread play in Legacy.
Stoneforge Mystic is a cool card. I think Modern would be a better format with the card. But Batterskull would have to go, and Jitte shouldn't come back. WotC will likely never make the mistake of printing another equipment as good as those two ever again. In fact, with the initial banned list for Modern, Jitte bought it because SFM was the more fun card. And I don't know about you, but I've never looked down a Batterskull on the other side of the table and thought "this is really fun!"
I still support this. Also, an SFM unban with Batterskull being banned would provide a large boost to decks like Team Italia and Azorius Midrange, which would provide more color diversity to the format. However, I am fine with Batterskull existing too, since decks like Blue Moon are still using it. I just think that the card that is more fun and produces more diversity is SFM.
Stoneforge Mystic was always going to be loaded gun even without Batterskull. I can bet now that every time R&D designs a new equipment they grimace at the mere thought of her.
Regardless, I support either Stoneforge or Jace being unbanned, but never both. Hopeful Caw-blades players need to make a choice.
If I had to choose, I would probably choose an SFM/Batterskull swap simply because it is less broken. However, I would be fine with a Jace unban too as it would give decks like Mythic Conscription the tools that they need in Modern.
Stoneforge Mystic was always going to be loaded gun even without Batterskull. I can bet now that every time R&D designs a new equipment they grimace at the mere thought of her.
Enh, I don't know. I feel like that unless they're trying to do so, it's extremely unlikely that they'll make an equipment that's more powerful with Stoneforge Mystic than Batterskull.
Said the DCI back when the original banlists(Type 1, etc) were made all those years ago. And what you're eluding to is exactly the problem, they are not following their own rules.
The game's obviously changed as has their use of the B/R list, specifically for Modern. Not sure why you'd cite some antiquated logic for it when it's clear they've changed course.
Because they haven't changed course. It's the logic they've followed and kept with for years. And only recently(and only in modern) have they changed their actions. While never explicitly stating in words they are changing their philosophy.
But it's not just a magic-specific thing. It's generally how every banned list in every game has worked since the dawn of time. Broken things get banned because they're broken, and that's the point of a banned list. There is usually an 'S' tier in every game, being pretty much objectively the best in whatever context. And unless it breaks the game, it never gets banned. How every game everywhere works.
Hopefully the meta is nothing like was seen at PT:BNG. I was excited getting into modern because it was a powerful format where you didn't have to play blue to be competitive (Legacy). However, it's quickly becoming a Blue dominated format with cards such as Snapcaster Mage leading the charge.
If I had to choose, I would probably choose an SFM/Batterskull swap simply because it is less broken. However, I would be fine with a Jace unban too as it would give decks like Mythic Conscription the tools that they need in Modern.
I was always a fan of the swapping idea.
Back when it was page after page of DRS arguing I always supported swapping DRS with BBE, however, WotC doesn't think like that.
Hopefully the meta is nothing like was seen at PT:BNG. I was excited getting into modern because it was a powerful format where you didn't have to play blue to be competitive (Legacy). However, it's quickly becoming a Blue dominated format with cards such as Snapcaster Mage leading the charge.
It could be worse, you could've been in when DRS fueled BGx to way too much of the metagame, be glad that didn't happen.
Hopefully the meta is nothing like was seen at PT:BNG. I was excited getting into modern because it was a powerful format where you didn't have to play blue to be competitive (Legacy). However, it's quickly becoming a Blue dominated format with cards such as Snapcaster Mage leading the charge.
I play both UWR/Esper and Jund, because I'm the type of person who likes to have their cake
and eat it too.
Let the Blue players have their moment in the spotlight for the time being. Until then either take a break from Modern like I am or just switch over to a new deck.
Hopefully the meta is nothing like was seen at PT:BNG. I was excited getting into modern because it was a powerful format where you didn't have to play blue to be competitive (Legacy). However, it's quickly becoming a Blue dominated format with cards such as Snapcaster Mage leading the charge.
I play both UWR/Esper and Jund, because I'm the type of person who likes to have their cake
and eat it too.
Let the Blue players have their moment in the spotlight for the time being. Until then either take a break from Modern like I am or just switch over to a new deck.
Not sure it's worth it to invest in another deck, Snapcaster Mage was in a ridiculous number of decks at the PTQ, and in 5/8 of the Top 8. I don't think he'll be sticking around in Modern much longer. Maybe once the PTQ hype dies down I'll try out a combo deck like Amulet of Vigor or Living End.
Ancient Den
Blazing Shoal
Chrome Mox
Cloudpost
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Glimpse of Nature
Great Furnace
Hypergenesis
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Ponder
Punishing Fire
Rite of Flame
Seat of the Synod
Second Sunrise
Seething Song
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Tree of Tales
Umezawa's Jitte
Vault of Whispers
...and I'd print more cards to punish greedy mana bases.
I feel like Modern needs more powerful cards to police itself. My goal would be to get Modern to the point where Jace could come off of that list as well. The problem is that Modern doesn't have cards to police itself very well. The best example of Modern policing itself was DRS policing Snapcaster, and then they banned DRS. The issue with having a lot of powerful cards is that people will simply run as many of them all in the same deck as they can, leading to "the goodstuff blob" deck. This "goodstuff blob" is what needs to be attacked, not the powerful cards themselves. Something stonger than Tectonic Edge and Fulminator Mage. Beyond that, try to push archetypes that polarize the powerful cards to eke out maximum value. Reward players for focusing on a strategy, rather than building "the blob".
This is what I feel the core issue with Modern is right now, and until it becomes addressed, this sense of "if your deck is good, it isn't safe" will persist. It's why Pod and Twin players are always scared of B&R announcements.
Now, that's not to say Modern is bad, I actually enjoy Modern in concept, and want to see it do well. I'm just getting tired of the ban circus. The issue isn't something that can be fixed with simple bans and unbans. The issue is one that needs to be addressed by the input of new, powerful cards to polarize and police the format to fracture the decks away from "the blob." Birthing Pod is a card that is already doing this. Aether Vial can do this, but the cards don't exist in Modern to reward Vial play, enough. What needs to happen is that we should stop looking at the powerful cards that are seeing play, and trying to see what makes them broken, but instead look at the powerful cards that aren't seeing play, and see what could be added to help those ones out, without helping the cards that are seeing play.
For instance, consider these three cards:
Aether Vial
Knight of the Reliquary
Bitterblossom (although this one too early to say with certainty)
These all should be good enough to see tournament play. None of these cards are seeing any, though.
Aether Vial wants a deck that wants to throw out threats on a strong curve while utilizing mana on other things.
Knight of the Reliquary wants strong lands.
Bitterblossom simply wants you to be able to use a bunch of faeries to good effect.
I think something stronger than Tectonic Edge will help all of these cards out, and attack "the blob". I hate being Wastelanded as much as the next player, but I understand the role of Wasteland in Legacy, and know it would be a much worse format without the card. I'm not saying Modern wants or needs something as powerful as Wasteland, but certainly something better than Tectonic Edge.
wait are you guys positing that SFM is of a lower level power than batterskull? Just so we're clear, not only is SFM the enabler that constrains design space, it costs 2 mana as apposed to skulls 5.
To have a swap ban be reasonable we'd have to prove that batterskull is the broken thing setting the modern format on fire (spoiler: its not), and that SFM is incredibly safe. Wizards have never done a straight swap ban/unban
i really liked this pro tour, to me, it was the most exciting modern tournament, and the format seems really open and fun, but if they ban snapcaster mage, or twin or something right now, i'll just lost the good taste that this PT left in my mouth. You cant ban everything that is played
SFM is a fine and balanced card. At least it is with traditional EQUIPMENTS.
what balances Stoneforge Mystic is that while it may make equipments cheaper you still have to pay the equip costs.
Now Batterskull breaks this by being essentially no equipment, no Batterskull is a artifact creature for most puropouses. Even if Batterskull was just a 4/4 SFM would be fine for Modern.
The last straw that broke SFM was the return ability of Batterskull, which dominates the lategame against a lot of decks.
For constructed play only equipments with low equipcosts are interesting if they aren't used in other regards (Living Weapon).
Expensive equipments with low equip costs are rare and mostly mediocre.
Expensive equipments with high equip costs are not good with SFM.
So you want to have good equipments with low equipcosts, and we won't ever see equipments that are much better than the swords in that regard. SFM with Swords isn't even really impressive by modern Standards. I would be surprised if the SFM <-> Batterskull bannedlist swap won't happen eventually, especially since they unbanned Bitterblossom which sparks similar decks.
Is this really so hard to understand?
The only reason why SFM + Batterskull is broken is because you don't have to pay the equipcosts ... (and further down the line because you can return it)
I say again you're saying a tutor + cheat is more broken than a fairly costed equip that actually sees a small amount of play? Sure you might think the format would be better like that, but swap bans do not happen. The only reason wizards would do it, is if the skull is broken. Which it obviously is not; I still think modern would have been a better format from the outset with fetch lands banned (read: No banned DRS, goyf not being insane, prison existing), but I'm not going to argue for fetchlands being banned now, it goes against everything wizards has ever done with any ban list. It would create back lash.
I also still stand by my view that SFM is of a high power level even with swords. BW tokens would love it, junk would love it. there are far safer things to come off first than SFM.
SFM is a fine and balanced card. At least it is with traditional EQUIPMENTS.
what balances Stoneforge Mystic is that while it may make equipments cheaper you still have to pay the equip costs.
Now Batterskull breaks this by being essentially no equipment, no Batterskull is a artifact creature for most puropouses. Even if Batterskull was just a 4/4 SFM would be fine for Modern.
The last straw that broke SFM was the return ability of Batterskull, which dominates the lategame against a lot of decks.
For constructed play only equipments with low equipcosts are interesting if they aren't used in other regards (Living Weapon).
Expensive equipments with low equip costs are rare and mostly mediocre.
Expensive equipments with high equip costs are not good with SFM.
So you want to have good equipments with low equipcosts, and we won't ever see equipments that are much better than the swords in that regard. SFM with Swords isn't even really impressive by modern Standards. I would be surprised if the SFM <-> Batterskull bannedlist swap won't happen eventually, especially since they unbanned Bitterblossom which sparks similar decks.
Is this really so hard to understand?
The only reason why SFM + Batterskull is broken is because you don't have to pay the equipcosts ... (and further down the line because you can return it)
I say again you're saying a tutor + cheat is more broken than a fairly costed equip that actually sees a small amount of play? Sure you might think the format would be better like that, but swap bans do not happen. The only reason wizards would do it, is if the skull is broken. Which it obviously is not; I still think modern would have been a better format from the outset with fetch lands banned (read: No banned DRS, goyf not being insane, prison existing), but I'm not going to argue for fetchlands being banned now, it goes against everything wizards has ever done with any ban list. It would create back lash.
I also still stand by my view that SFM is of a high power level even with swords. BW tokens would love it, junk would love it. there are far safer things to come off first than SFM.
Yes, SFM has a high power level even with just swords. However, it is not broken with just them.
SFM is a fine and balanced card. At least it is with traditional EQUIPMENTS.
what balances Stoneforge Mystic is that while it may make equipments cheaper you still have to pay the equip costs.
Now Batterskull breaks this by being essentially no equipment, no Batterskull is a artifact creature for most puropouses. Even if Batterskull was just a 4/4 SFM would be fine for Modern.
The last straw that broke SFM was the return ability of Batterskull, which dominates the lategame against a lot of decks.
For constructed play only equipments with low equipcosts are interesting if they aren't used in other regards (Living Weapon).
Expensive equipments with low equip costs are rare and mostly mediocre.
Expensive equipments with high equip costs are not good with SFM.
So you want to have good equipments with low equipcosts, and we won't ever see equipments that are much better than the swords in that regard. SFM with Swords isn't even really impressive by modern Standards. I would be surprised if the SFM <-> Batterskull bannedlist swap won't happen eventually, especially since they unbanned Bitterblossom which sparks similar decks.
Is this really so hard to understand?
The only reason why SFM + Batterskull is broken is because you don't have to pay the equipcosts ... (and further down the line because you can return it)
I say again you're saying a tutor + cheat is more broken than a fairly costed equip that actually sees a small amount of play? Sure you might think the format would be better like that, but swap bans do not happen. The only reason wizards would do it, is if the skull is broken. Which it obviously is not; I still think modern would have been a better format from the outset with fetch lands banned (read: No banned DRS, goyf not being insane, prison existing), but I'm not going to argue for fetchlands being banned now, it goes against everything wizards has ever done with any ban list. It would create back lash.
I also still stand by my view that SFM is of a high power level even with swords. BW tokens would love it, junk would love it. there are far safer things to come off first than SFM.
Calling Batterskull a fairly costed equip is stupid. You never equip it to anything except the token it becomes automatically equipped to. If you do, you're doing it wrong.
If you're losing to a sword, you weren't really winning the game to begin with. They are often Win-More cards.
The argument about SFM limiting design space is also stupid. Wizards has been printing equipment since Mirrodin, and in that time they have printed what? 5-6 that see play at high levels? (Jitte, Cranial, Batterskull, and a handful of swords?) Wizards knows what makes a good equipment good, to the point where they have gone on record knowing how stupid SFM with Batterskull was, and went ahead with it anyway.
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
Are you saying 5 mana is not fair for batterskull? That 5 mana is cheap? 5 is a lot of mana. And yes it does get equipped to other things as 8 mana is a lot late game when you need the lifelink on the board.
You guys are arguing for something that has never happened, at what stage do you think wizards will turn around and say
"Oh sorry, we realised that batterskull was the unfun part of SFM, so we will unban the enabler and ban the enabled. We hope that this promotes more diversity in the midrange strategies of modern"
T1 thoughtseize, t2 bob is already brutal in modern. Can you imagine t1 seize, grab your snare, t2 mystic on the play? You are not interacting favorably with that, follow it up with a hawk, or a souls, or a blossom. There are far safer cards to come off first.
Neither SFM nor Batterskull is broken without the other one.
This is exactly why SFM was banned, and will remain banned, over Batterskull.
Because in the infinite future of magic, there could be tons of other things(or maybe there currently are things, we just haven't discovered them yet) that can combo with SFM to break it REALLY easily. Conversely, nothing could be printed(other than an essentially carbon-copy of SFM) to break Batterskull. So in the instance where at least one of them needs to be banned, it has to be SFM. I don't like it any more than you do, but it's how it has to be.
tl;dr The enabler can enable a great many things, and is therefore always far riskier and potentially broken than the enabled.
I agree with GGT, MeekSword, and BBE, but I'm don't follow your logic on Ponder/Preordain or Ancestral Vision. Decks getting better isn't a negative unless they go from fair to warpingly dominating. On the balance I think it's probably fair to say that other decks that aren't competing right now (Delver, non-White U/x, Tezzerator, Faeries, etc) have more to gain from P/P or AV than the established top decks, which would means a more competitive and diverse metagame as a whole.
I also doubt that UWR control would run AV over Sphinx's Rev. The incidental life gain and better late game topdecks that Sphinx's Rev represent are substantial compared to AV. UWR midrange might run AV over Sphinx's Rev, but that version of the deck hasn't fared as well so maybe it getting some help wouldn't be a bad thing. Grixis, BUG, and other under-represented Non-white U/x decks that don't really have a good card advantage option right now might play it too.
Speculate less. Test more.
Isn't the point of the banlist power level regulation?
No, it's not. It's supposed to be balance regulation. I know, this is a difficult distinction for some people to make, but it's a relevant ones. Things should NOT be banned for being strong(which is why a lot of people are mad at Wizards for how they are handling Modern). Things should be banned for being broken. Being "imbalanced." Cards like AncestralRecall are imbalanced. They are not conducive with the balance of magic as a whole, as 3 cards for 1 mana is far above the acceptable standards of the game. Conversely cards like Bob are strong. They are good. And should not in any case be banned by Wizards to "lower the power level of the format" just because they are good.
If something "Breaks"(this is the key word) the format, that is the only instance where a banning should occur. SDT broke timing constraints. Blazing Shoal broke infect. SFM broke Batterskull. This is why these are good bans. And bans like BBE and GGT(and formerly BB and Nacatl) are most assuredly not.
Says who? Not the DCI so far.
Said the DCI back when the original banlists(Type 1, etc) were made all those years ago. And what you're eluding to is exactly the problem, they are not following their own rules.
I'd posit that Batterskull broke SFM.
Misty made her competitive debut as a cute way to grab a Behemoth Sledge to race or a Basilisk Collar for Cunning Sparkmage shenanigans in Naya Zoo. Hardly broken.
Then she started fetching singleton Umezawa's Jitte in Conley Woods' Bant brew. Also note, no swords of X and Y...not powerful enough. Also JTMS was hanging out with SFM and the world didn't end. Other than the Jitte, I could see this as a reasonable deck in Modern.
Then with Mirrodin Besieged she started grabbing Sword of Feast and Famine in Standard. Powerful, and good enough to win PT Paris, but it wasn't the most played deck in the room and it had a pretty reasonable win percentage as far as PT winning decks go, but definitely good for a Standard deck.
Misty only got absurd when Batterskull was printed, eventually going on to inspire a fistful of bannings in Modern, Extended, and Standard, all the while seeing widespread play in Legacy.
Stoneforge Mystic is a cool card. I think Modern would be a better format with the card. But Batterskull would have to go, and Jitte shouldn't come back. WotC will likely never make the mistake of printing another equipment as good as those two ever again. In fact, with the initial banned list for Modern, Jitte bought it because SFM was the more fun card. And I don't know about you, but I've never looked down a Batterskull on the other side of the table and thought "this is really fun!"
Speculate less. Test more.
The game's obviously changed as has their use of the B/R list, specifically for Modern. Not sure why you'd cite some antiquated logic for it when it's clear they've changed course.
Regardless, I support either Stoneforge or Jace being unbanned, but never both. Hopeful Caw-blades players need to make a choice.
I still support this. Also, an SFM unban with Batterskull being banned would provide a large boost to decks like Team Italia and Azorius Midrange, which would provide more color diversity to the format. However, I am fine with Batterskull existing too, since decks like Blue Moon are still using it. I just think that the card that is more fun and produces more diversity is SFM.
If I had to choose, I would probably choose an SFM/Batterskull swap simply because it is less broken. However, I would be fine with a Jace unban too as it would give decks like Mythic Conscription the tools that they need in Modern.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Because they haven't changed course. It's the logic they've followed and kept with for years. And only recently(and only in modern) have they changed their actions. While never explicitly stating in words they are changing their philosophy.
But it's not just a magic-specific thing. It's generally how every banned list in every game has worked since the dawn of time. Broken things get banned because they're broken, and that's the point of a banned list. There is usually an 'S' tier in every game, being pretty much objectively the best in whatever context. And unless it breaks the game, it never gets banned. How every game everywhere works.
I was always a fan of the swapping idea.
Back when it was page after page of DRS arguing I always supported swapping DRS with BBE, however, WotC doesn't think like that.
It could be worse, you could've been in when DRS fueled BGx to way too much of the metagame, be glad that didn't happen.
I play both UWR/Esper and Jund, because I'm the type of person who likes to have their cake
and eat it too.
Let the Blue players have their moment in the spotlight for the time being. Until then either take a break from Modern like I am or just switch over to a new deck.
Not sure it's worth it to invest in another deck, Snapcaster Mage was in a ridiculous number of decks at the PTQ, and in 5/8 of the Top 8. I don't think he'll be sticking around in Modern much longer. Maybe once the PTQ hype dies down I'll try out a combo deck like Amulet of Vigor or Living End.
Ancient Den
Blazing Shoal
Chrome Mox
Cloudpost
Dark Depths
Dread Return
Glimpse of Nature
Great Furnace
Hypergenesis
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Mental Misstep
Ponder
Punishing Fire
Rite of Flame
Seat of the Synod
Second Sunrise
Seething Song
Sensei's Divining Top
Skullclamp
Tree of Tales
Umezawa's Jitte
Vault of Whispers
...and I'd print more cards to punish greedy mana bases.
I feel like Modern needs more powerful cards to police itself. My goal would be to get Modern to the point where Jace could come off of that list as well. The problem is that Modern doesn't have cards to police itself very well. The best example of Modern policing itself was DRS policing Snapcaster, and then they banned DRS. The issue with having a lot of powerful cards is that people will simply run as many of them all in the same deck as they can, leading to "the goodstuff blob" deck. This "goodstuff blob" is what needs to be attacked, not the powerful cards themselves. Something stonger than Tectonic Edge and Fulminator Mage. Beyond that, try to push archetypes that polarize the powerful cards to eke out maximum value. Reward players for focusing on a strategy, rather than building "the blob".
This is what I feel the core issue with Modern is right now, and until it becomes addressed, this sense of "if your deck is good, it isn't safe" will persist. It's why Pod and Twin players are always scared of B&R announcements.
Now, that's not to say Modern is bad, I actually enjoy Modern in concept, and want to see it do well. I'm just getting tired of the ban circus. The issue isn't something that can be fixed with simple bans and unbans. The issue is one that needs to be addressed by the input of new, powerful cards to polarize and police the format to fracture the decks away from "the blob." Birthing Pod is a card that is already doing this. Aether Vial can do this, but the cards don't exist in Modern to reward Vial play, enough. What needs to happen is that we should stop looking at the powerful cards that are seeing play, and trying to see what makes them broken, but instead look at the powerful cards that aren't seeing play, and see what could be added to help those ones out, without helping the cards that are seeing play.
For instance, consider these three cards:
Aether Vial
Knight of the Reliquary
Bitterblossom (although this one too early to say with certainty)
These all should be good enough to see tournament play. None of these cards are seeing any, though.
Aether Vial wants a deck that wants to throw out threats on a strong curve while utilizing mana on other things.
Knight of the Reliquary wants strong lands.
Bitterblossom simply wants you to be able to use a bunch of faeries to good effect.
I think something stronger than Tectonic Edge will help all of these cards out, and attack "the blob". I hate being Wastelanded as much as the next player, but I understand the role of Wasteland in Legacy, and know it would be a much worse format without the card. I'm not saying Modern wants or needs something as powerful as Wasteland, but certainly something better than Tectonic Edge.
To have a swap ban be reasonable we'd have to prove that batterskull is the broken thing setting the modern format on fire (spoiler: its not), and that SFM is incredibly safe. Wizards have never done a straight swap ban/unban
And unban bloodbraid elf plz.....
Warning for spamming
-ktkenshinx-
Standard: Mardu Midrange, Jeskai Wins, Naya Walkers, Boss Sligh, Mono Black Aggro
Modern: RUG Scapeshift, Burn, UG Infect
Legacy: Death n Taxes, Burn, Tendrils
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Krenko, Mob Boss, Narset, Enlightened Master
I say again you're saying a tutor + cheat is more broken than a fairly costed equip that actually sees a small amount of play? Sure you might think the format would be better like that, but swap bans do not happen. The only reason wizards would do it, is if the skull is broken. Which it obviously is not; I still think modern would have been a better format from the outset with fetch lands banned (read: No banned DRS, goyf not being insane, prison existing), but I'm not going to argue for fetchlands being banned now, it goes against everything wizards has ever done with any ban list. It would create back lash.
I also still stand by my view that SFM is of a high power level even with swords. BW tokens would love it, junk would love it. there are far safer things to come off first than SFM.
Yes, SFM has a high power level even with just swords. However, it is not broken with just them.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Calling Batterskull a fairly costed equip is stupid. You never equip it to anything except the token it becomes automatically equipped to. If you do, you're doing it wrong.
If you're losing to a sword, you weren't really winning the game to begin with. They are often Win-More cards.
The argument about SFM limiting design space is also stupid. Wizards has been printing equipment since Mirrodin, and in that time they have printed what? 5-6 that see play at high levels? (Jitte, Cranial, Batterskull, and a handful of swords?) Wizards knows what makes a good equipment good, to the point where they have gone on record knowing how stupid SFM with Batterskull was, and went ahead with it anyway.
You guys are arguing for something that has never happened, at what stage do you think wizards will turn around and say
"Oh sorry, we realised that batterskull was the unfun part of SFM, so we will unban the enabler and ban the enabled. We hope that this promotes more diversity in the midrange strategies of modern"
T1 thoughtseize, t2 bob is already brutal in modern. Can you imagine t1 seize, grab your snare, t2 mystic on the play? You are not interacting favorably with that, follow it up with a hawk, or a souls, or a blossom. There are far safer cards to come off first.
This is exactly why SFM was banned, and will remain banned, over Batterskull.
Because in the infinite future of magic, there could be tons of other things(or maybe there currently are things, we just haven't discovered them yet) that can combo with SFM to break it REALLY easily. Conversely, nothing could be printed(other than an essentially carbon-copy of SFM) to break Batterskull. So in the instance where at least one of them needs to be banned, it has to be SFM. I don't like it any more than you do, but it's how it has to be.
tl;dr The enabler can enable a great many things, and is therefore always far riskier and potentially broken than the enabled.