I'm looking at having some boomerang, repeal, vapor snag effect somewhere in my 75 for vial or big, cheap bodies.
This would, in theory, help with goyf type matches in general.
I was seriously considering Vapor Snag as a 2 of at least. I feel like it would be more helpful then not in most situations but I have not tried it yet. That extra point of damage can also make the world a difference in modern. Def worth while.
My only problem with boomerang is the difficulty casting it with snapcaster...
honestly, i said screw it, splashed white, and mainboarded 3 paths. i got completely totaled by junk last week and all their x/4+ creatures. i took out the burst lightnings and a mana leak. and to me, i feel a lot safer that i can handle threats that happen to resolve.
I'm sorry, the way you have that worded I cant tell if you got 'totaled' after or before you chose to splash white. Path is a good way to go, and as stated above why I'm considering Vapor Snag if I remain in UR cause it needs an answer for serious threats.
On another hand, what does everyone think of Squelch? Its similar to the original Blind and Stifle (highly played in Legacy) and helps just as well if not better then are new modern contender Shadow of Doubt. Oh... and it draws a card!
Kills Fetches, slows Pod, buys a turn against Kiki, stops most modern played artifacts. Plainswalkers.
On another hand, what does everyone think of Squelch? Its similar to the original Blind and Stifle (highly played in Legacy) and helps just as well if not better then are new modern contender Shadow of Doubt. Oh... and it draws a card!
Kills Fetches, slows Pod, buys a turn against Kiki, stops most modern played artifacts. Plainswalkers.
Worse than Shadow other than castability, I think. Shadow also hoses Scapeshift, which this doesn't do.
White Lifegain - Maybe I have been unlucky, but I have dealt over 30 damage multiple games and still lost. Tokens, Squadron Hawk, and anthem effects make it very difficult for Delver of Secrets to swing.
I would just like to say I lost 2-1 playing against delver with my budget SS deck Wednesday night, it was my first modern event so you might chalk it up to inexperience, but the removal/counters were just there when he needed it, and my anthems were nowhere to be found when I needed them.
Overall I liked the deck, much respect to one of the more "fair" decks of the format, I tip my hat to delver players.
I would just like to say I lost 2-1 playing against delver with my budget SS deck Wednesday night, it was my first modern event so you might chalk it up to inexperience, but the removal/counters were just there when he needed it, and my anthems were nowhere to be found when I needed them.
Overall I liked the deck, much respect to one of the more "fair" decks of the format, I tip my hat to delver players.
Still, when a deck draws the nuts, they draw the nuts. Even with good hands, we can't normally deal with T2 30+ life too well; we're trying to put the opponent on an early clock, and all that life-gain makes it hard to get the game in our grasp.
Basically I want a slightly higher density of free spells to make my pyromancer more effective. I'm not sure about mutagenic growth, but they seemed to be pretty good in the standard delver days. I also kind of want to splash white for Geist now... but that might be a bit greedy.
Well, he said he dropped the leaks, but Mana Leak is as close to a good, cheap hard counter as we get for this archetype and I would hate to lose that.
So, Vendilion Clique is a house, but is it reasonable to cut it and stick to only 2 CMC spells? I keep fighting with myself over this and I'm just not sure. 3 CMC is not a lot, but 2 just seems so much more appealing.
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Still, when a deck draws the nuts, they draw the nuts. Even with good hands, we can't normally deal with T2 30+ life too well; we're trying to put the opponent on an early clock, and all that life-gain makes it hard to get the game in our grasp.
Lol I assume you mean T1 Ascendant and T2 Martyr + sac w/ Ascendant swing for 38-40 life. that's pretty much the god draw for us and even though most decks run a play set of the two cards needed, it's not really that often lol. I mean I'm not sure of any deck that could come back from that anyway, so it doesn't make delver look any worse. Delver was probably the best deck I faced that night due to it's ability to Pillar/Magma Spray/Bolt all my relevant dudes and keep my deck under control unlike the other decks that watched my pridemates become 11/11's and swing for game.
I haven't had too much difficulty with Soul Sisters' lifegain or splashy creatures so long as you counter or kill Ascendants or Pridemates before they grow. I feel like the toughest thing about that deck is attacking through all of the flying 1/1's.
I haven't had too much difficulty with Soul Sisters' lifegain or splashy creatures so long as you counter or kill Ascendants or Pridemates before they grow. I feel like the toughest thing about that deck is attacking through all of the flying 1/1's.
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
I piloted a RUG Delver build on Saturday at the Detroit GPT at Dice Dojo in Chicago. Managed to top 8 going 3-1-1 with about 40 people playing. I think there were two or three other delver decks but none of them were at the top tables so I didn't get a chance to see how they played.
I was trying out both Forked Bolt and Pillar of Flame but when I drew them I always wanted to see another threat or another burst lightning. Young Pyromancer seems like he would be awesome with so many cheap instants and sorceries but I was really underwhelmed with him as a threat; he wasn't good turn one, two or even three, and was a pretty bad topdeck. I'm going to give Stromkirk Noble a try because he's great turn one and just about as bad late. I really wish Nimble Mongoose was modern legal...
The Jund matchup usually goes 50/50 in my testing with the Tarmogoyf differential being pretty important.
Match 2: BUG Control (1-1, 1-0-1)
Game 1: A first turn Probe revealed both Cryptic Command and Life from the Loam so I thought he was running some sort of Gifts Rock mashup but it was actually just a budget(ish) homebrew. I managed to get him down to around 4 (~12 damage came from a naked Snapcaster Mage after he got off to a slow start on three lands, but I flooded out at 11 lands and he beat me to death with a Creeping Tar Pit. It took forever for him to win though and I was drawing live to Burst Lightning or Snapcaster Mage for awhile but just didn't get there.
Game 2: I got 2 for 1'd twice by Maelstrom Pulse in this game but still had enough gas to close it out. It helped? that I was stuck on one land for awhile so I had a live hand pretty late into the game while he ran out of resources. Also, remanding your own spell in response to a Cryptic Command or Remand feels awesome.
Game 3: We only had ~5 minutes left in the round and he locked the board down quickly with a turn 2 Lilly and I never got anything going offensively before we hit time.
Sideboard:
+1 Sword of Light and Shadow
+2 Spellskite
+1 Spell Pierce
+2 Simic Charm
-1 Forked Bolt
-1 Pillar of Flame
-1 Spell Snare
-2 Electrolyze
-1 Snapcaster Mage
Not much to say about this matchup besides you probably won't ever see it. It is nice to play a deck that has a wide range of threats and answers to play against rogue decks like this.
Match 3: Jund (0-2, 1-1-1)
Game 1: He drew removal and a Huntmaster, I drew fragile, slow threats and Spell Pierce/Snare, also 8 lands.
Game 2: I got stuck on two lands and a goyf. He got out two goyfs.
Sideboard:
See above
I'm always pretty intimidated when playing this guy and it usually turns into me tilting and making 20 missplays a game. This matchup is better than these results would indicate as long as you are patient with your threats(and play RUG).
Match 4: Living End
Game 1: Turn 1 delver that refused to flip. I had a wall of counters in my hand and he burned through two living ends before I dropped goyf with counter backup. He scooped when he saw lethal on the board after a few turns. My hand was still a snapcaster and Remand[.
Game 2: I had to mull to 6 to find a counterspell, but didn't have a threat. Digging with Serum Visions and 3x Gitaxian Probe found me a Young Pyromancer turn three that would have to do. I ran him out on turn 4 with Spell Pierce mana up but he EOT Beast Within'd my untapped land and I scooped after he cast Violent Outburst the next turn with 6+ creatures in the graveyard.
Game 3: I had a hand with a snapcaster, Serum Visions, Delver, goyf and a land of each color. I didn't mull to 6 because I was on the play and hoped to have enough pressure and draw into countermagic. I got lucky and he was stuck on two lands which allowed me to beat him down to 7 before he cascaded into Living End. He made a pretty bad attack by not leaving any blockers back while I had a single 4/5 goyf to block with, and then he Beast Within'd my creature rather than his, leaving my with a 3/3 to swing back with. I had a Burst Lightning in my hand with four lands in play so I was drawing live to any land or a Snapcaster Mage. I topdecked the [CARD=Snapcaster Mage]snapcaster[/CARD=Snapcaster Mage] and he scooped.
Sideboard:
-1 Spell Snare
+1 Spell Pierce
I recently lowered the curve for this deck dropping 2 Deprive, 2 Cryptic Command and 3 lands, turning this matchup into a nightmare. I may need some sideboard graveyard hate but I'd like to see how trickbind performs.
Match 5: U/W Merfolk (2-1, 3-1-1)
Game 1: Opening hand on the play was Probe, Delver, Goyf, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Island, Breeding Pool. I probed revealing a Aether Vial and a Lord of Atlantis. Pierced the Vial, Snared the lord and rode a blind flipped delver to victory backed by 3 Remand and a Mana Leak. Games like these are why I love playing this deck.
Game 2: He got out an early vial but I had two goyfs and could race. I pulled a GP Kansas City and didn't read his Tidebinder Mage which he Phantasmal imaged. I got beatdown by a bunch of 2/2's including Kira, Great Glass Spinner.
Game 3: He mulled to 6 and then kept a one lander. I punished him pretty hard by dropping a turn one delver and a turn three Vedalken Shackles while he still had only one land. The game might have been closer had he started playing merfolk once he got 2 lands and an active Vial but he was afraid of my shackles and didn't drop anything. I Ancient Grudge'd his Vial at some point with him never actually using it. He pathed my Insectile Aberration when he was at 7 life and then we played draw go for awhile until I found another threat. I played a delver, attacked next turn and stole his Mutavault that he activated to block. He woke up and tried dropping some blockers into a wall of counters. The next turn I attacked with an unflipped delver and the stolen Mutavault into a lone Kira and finished up with double bolt.
Sideboard:
+2 Ancient Grudge
+2 Vedalken Shackles
+2 Threads of Disloyalty
+2 Engineered Explosives
-2 Electrolyze
-1 Forked Bolt
-1 Pillar of Flame
-2 Burst Lightning
-2 Spell Pierce
Top 8
Match 1: Living End
Basically see the summary above. I had early pressure. He played around my counters and I couldn't finish. I lost in 2.
To even have a shot in this matchup you need to see 4ish lands and at least 2 counters with early pressure. And that all needs to happen by turn 3 when they can go off. Any help with this matchup would be great.
DireNTropy, could you put a time stamp whenever you update the decklist in the OP? That way if I want to netdeck this deck, I can be sure that the deck I am bringing to the tournament is up to date and not outdated by a month or so. Thanks!
I'm not too familiar with Delver decks generally, but why isn't Goblin Guide in any of these decks? I feel like he does what this deck wants to do: drop a threat T1 and start clocking. Guide has a faster clock than the aforementioned Stormkirk Noble and also is a better top-deck.
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I'm not too familiar with Delver decks generally, but why isn't Goblin Guide in any of these decks? I feel like he does what this deck wants to do: drop a threat T1 and start clocking. Guide has a faster clock than the aforementioned Stormkirk Noble and also is a better top-deck.
I don't necessarily have a problem with Guide, he is played a little in Delver legacy decks but giving your opponent cards is not good for any reason. For me it seems there is always a blocker early game that can kill him right away. Some games you can ride him out for a win or close to it... but most you cant, and generally because you gave your opponent the answer.
And now with Vexing Devil in the mix I think he is just a better choice.
I've been scouring gatherer lately to try and find efficient threats in modern and I'll post up a summary soon.
As for the cards being mentioned. Vexing Devil is a bad magic card; it's just a skill testing card like Browbeat that casual players love. The only deck it should be in is zoo because it will put the last counter on Experiment One and they have a ridiculous threat density unlike us. Goblin Guide is the most aggressive 1 drop ever printed. If you want to tune your deck to the aggro side of the spectrum he's an auto-include. Just know that your Spell Pierces, Remands and Mana Leaks are going to go dead quicker and replace some of them with more threats/burn. Depending on your ratio it might be best to drop delver and go RDW with slight counter backup against the unfair decks of the format. Stromkirk Noble is just something I've been testing out. The humans clause isn't completely useless (Thalia, BTE, Bob, Tiago) and he is a house against control if you can protect him until he's out of bolt range. That said, there is a high chance that I'm just wrong but that's part of brewing.
None of those t1 threats are appealing. If I want creatures other than Delver I'd look straight to the most powerful in the format, Tarmogoyf and Dark Confidant
I tried Bob in my Grixis build, and unless I was doing something wrong or playing him at the wrong time I felt he didn't fit. I always found myself wanting to play other things then him like a Clique, Studder Sprite, or counter almost as if I only wanted to drop him when I had no other cards to play.
Im down with Goyf, although Geist of Saint Traft is one of my favorite cards and has won me many a games so I would rather try that direction first. Then again step back to think, is it worth loosing Blood Moon?
I know everyones reaction to Nivmizet Elemental is going to be negative, and I'm not suggesting it. But I just thought someone might be interested that I played him as a 2 of with very little playtesting and he did very very well against RDW and RG aggro. He cost you a card, but a t2 3/4 body that can potentially grows is hard for those builds. I cannot say I tested other matches though.
So I've been really enjoying this deck, except for one problem card: Delver. He's simultaneously the best and the worst card in this deck. When he's good, he probably steals the game, but when he's bad, you'll lose the game. Plus I find myself playing much worse spells (Telling Time/Magma Jet) just because of the Delver synergies, as opposed to playing spells that are more efficient (Gitaxian Probe) or more versatile (Izzet Charm).
I've been trying out a Delver-less Delver list recently, and I think I am finding it a little better. I swapped 4 Delvers for 4 Spellstutter Sprites, and added a third Vendilion Clique in place of the 4th Pyromancer. Also, my 3 colorless lands have become Mutavaults. I'm thinking with the Fae route I might want to add some number of Scion of Oona as well, but I'm not sure what to cut for them.
I haven't had much time to test it yet, but in the matches I've played, it seems much more consistent. Maybe not as (potentially) powerful, but you won't lose matches quite as often simply because of bricked draws, which is important for the longer tournaments. I know it's going off tangentially from what everyone else is playing, but I thought I would try to get some input.
So I've been really enjoying this deck, except for one problem card: Delver. He's simultaneously the best and the worst card in this deck. When he's good, he probably steals the game, but when he's bad, you'll lose the game. Plus I find myself playing much worse spells (Telling Time/Magma Jet) just because of the Delver synergies, as opposed to playing spells that are more efficient (Gitaxian Probe) or more versatile (Izzet Charm).
I've been trying out a Delver-less Delver list recently, and I think I am finding it a little better. I swapped 4 Delvers for 4 Spellstutter Sprites, and added a third Vendilion Clique in place of the 4th Pyromancer. Also, my 3 colorless lands have become Mutavaults. I'm thinking with the Fae route I might want to add some number of Scion of Oona as well, but I'm not sure what to cut for them.
I haven't had much time to test it yet, but in the matches I've played, it seems much more consistent. Maybe not as (potentially) powerful, but you won't lose matches quite as often simply because of bricked draws, which is important for the longer tournaments. I know it's going off tangentially from what everyone else is playing, but I thought I would try to get some input.
I think there is a lot of movement from people into that type of deck after testing delver for a while.
Your argument is very valid and the "delverless delver" does play much more consistently, but less explosively.
I'm personally struggling with losing the more aggressive approach with delver, but I'll probably give up in a week. 2-for-1ing our nightmares, BGx and WUR removal, with a scion is delicious. Also, Scion in place of delver does pump most of the creatures, which helps the clock.
Whether or not you drop the pyros for Scions, head on over to the Fae thread! They could use some new blood and conversation.
So I've been really enjoying this deck, except for one problem card: Delver. He's simultaneously the best and the worst card in this deck. When he's good, he probably steals the game, but when he's bad, you'll lose the game. Plus I find myself playing much worse spells (Telling Time/Magma Jet) just because of the Delver synergies, as opposed to playing spells that are more efficient (Gitaxian Probe) or more versatile (Izzet Charm).
Hoogland cut delvers for scions. He 3-1'd a daily with the deck last night.
He's just testing at this point. He doesn't know whether he wants Scions or Delvers at this point. The extra conclave is to help with the higher average cmc with scions as well as the fact that we are more safe playing turn one tapped land now when we don't need to drop a delver turn 1.
Also, he's playing right now and is 2-0 (4-0 in games).
He's just testing at this point. He doesn't know whether he wants Scions or Delvers at this point. The extra conclave is to help with the higher average cmc with scions as well as the fact that we are more safe playing turn one tapped land now when we don't need to drop a delver turn 1.
Also, he's playing right now and is 2-0 (4-0 in games).
Is he streaming? If so, does anyone have a link?
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I was seriously considering Vapor Snag as a 2 of at least. I feel like it would be more helpful then not in most situations but I have not tried it yet. That extra point of damage can also make the world a difference in modern. Def worth while.
My only problem with boomerang is the difficulty casting it with snapcaster...
I'm sorry, the way you have that worded I cant tell if you got 'totaled' after or before you chose to splash white. Path is a good way to go, and as stated above why I'm considering Vapor Snag if I remain in UR cause it needs an answer for serious threats.
On another hand, what does everyone think of Squelch? Its similar to the original Blind and Stifle (highly played in Legacy) and helps just as well if not better then are new modern contender Shadow of Doubt. Oh... and it draws a card!
Kills Fetches, slows Pod, buys a turn against Kiki, stops most modern played artifacts. Plainswalkers.
Worse than Shadow other than castability, I think. Shadow also hoses Scapeshift, which this doesn't do.
Legacy: UBRG Czech Pile, WWW Death & Taxes, many other things
Modern: UBR Grixis, RWG Burn, UR UR Storm, BBB 8 Rack, whatever other control deck I can force
Multiplayer EDH: RR Norin the Wary, UU Barrin, Master Wizard, UB Wrexial, the Risen Deep, GR Borborygmos, Enraged
Tip the hat off to your sir, that is a valid point that I didn't think of that one.
I would just like to say I lost 2-1 playing against delver with my budget SS deck Wednesday night, it was my first modern event so you might chalk it up to inexperience, but the removal/counters were just there when he needed it, and my anthems were nowhere to be found when I needed them.
Overall I liked the deck, much respect to one of the more "fair" decks of the format, I tip my hat to delver players.
Still, when a deck draws the nuts, they draw the nuts. Even with good hands, we can't normally deal with T2 30+ life too well; we're trying to put the opponent on an early clock, and all that life-gain makes it hard to get the game in our grasp.
Modern-
Faeries
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Legacy-
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Thanks to HOTP Studios for the sig!
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Vapor Snag
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mutagenic Growth
2 Pillar of Flame
19 land
Basically I want a slightly higher density of free spells to make my pyromancer more effective. I'm not sure about mutagenic growth, but they seemed to be pretty good in the standard delver days. I also kind of want to splash white for Geist now... but that might be a bit greedy.
Decks
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Recovering from the Pod ban in paper
Lol I assume you mean T1 Ascendant and T2 Martyr + sac w/ Ascendant swing for 38-40 life. that's pretty much the god draw for us and even though most decks run a play set of the two cards needed, it's not really that often lol. I mean I'm not sure of any deck that could come back from that anyway, so it doesn't make delver look any worse. Delver was probably the best deck I faced that night due to it's ability to Pillar/Magma Spray/Bolt all my relevant dudes and keep my deck under control unlike the other decks that watched my pridemates become 11/11's and swing for game.
Sulfur Elemental works well there.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Here's the list I brought:
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vent
2 Breeding Pool
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
4 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
2 Mana Leak
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Burst Lightning
1 Forked Bolt
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Electrolyze
Sorceries
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Simic Charm
2 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Combust
1 Spell Pierce
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Spellskite
2 Ancient Grudge
I would make the following changes to the deck before playing with it again:
-1 Forked Bolt
+1 Burst Lightning
-1 Pillar of Flame
-3 Young Pyromancer
+4 Stromkirk Noble
I was trying out both Forked Bolt and Pillar of Flame but when I drew them I always wanted to see another threat or another burst lightning.
Young Pyromancer seems like he would be awesome with so many cheap instants and sorceries but I was really underwhelmed with him as a threat; he wasn't good turn one, two or even three, and was a pretty bad topdeck. I'm going to give Stromkirk Noble a try because he's great turn one and just about as bad late. I really wish Nimble Mongoose was modern legal...
-2 Electrolyze
+1 Spell Pierce
+1 Mana Leak
Electrolyze just costs too much. At three it should win me the game (Vedalken Shackles, Threads of Disloyalty, or Engineered Explosives). I'd much rather have a wall of counters and trade 1 for 1 than have to play towards and time a 3 for 1
-1 Combust
-1 Sword of Light and Shadow
+2 Trickbind
Combust was for Restoration Angel and Sword of Light and Shadow was for Jund and UWR Control. They both are way too narrow and Trickbind is something I'd like to test more with.
Match Summaries
Match 1: Spirit Jund (2-0, 1-0)
Game 1: I blind flipped a turn 1 delver on the play into a turn 3 goyf with removal for both his deathrite and ooze. He played some discard spells but was stuck on three lands with a hand of 2x Lingering Souls and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad.
Game 2: I got out an early blind flipped delver and he was afraid to play creatures because I had two threads in my hand. I ended up burning him to death with a couple of bolts and a Burst Lightning. He also flooded out at 10 lands which made it a little easier.
Sideboard:
+2 Simic Charm (For Abrupt decay)
+2 Threads of Disloyalty
+2 Vedalken Shackles
+2 Spellskite
+1 Sword of Light and Shadow
-3 Snapcaster Mage
-2 Electrolyze
-2 Spell Pierce (Not sure if this is correct)
-2 Mana Leak (This either)
The Jund matchup usually goes 50/50 in my testing with the Tarmogoyf differential being pretty important.
Match 2: BUG Control (1-1, 1-0-1)
Game 1: A first turn Probe revealed both Cryptic Command and Life from the Loam so I thought he was running some sort of Gifts Rock mashup but it was actually just a budget(ish) homebrew. I managed to get him down to around 4 (~12 damage came from a naked Snapcaster Mage after he got off to a slow start on three lands, but I flooded out at 11 lands and he beat me to death with a Creeping Tar Pit. It took forever for him to win though and I was drawing live to Burst Lightning or Snapcaster Mage for awhile but just didn't get there.
Game 2: I got 2 for 1'd twice by Maelstrom Pulse in this game but still had enough gas to close it out. It helped? that I was stuck on one land for awhile so I had a live hand pretty late into the game while he ran out of resources. Also, remanding your own spell in response to a Cryptic Command or Remand feels awesome.
Game 3: We only had ~5 minutes left in the round and he locked the board down quickly with a turn 2 Lilly and I never got anything going offensively before we hit time.
Sideboard:
+1 Sword of Light and Shadow
+2 Spellskite
+1 Spell Pierce
+2 Simic Charm
-1 Forked Bolt
-1 Pillar of Flame
-1 Spell Snare
-2 Electrolyze
-1 Snapcaster Mage
Not much to say about this matchup besides you probably won't ever see it. It is nice to play a deck that has a wide range of threats and answers to play against rogue decks like this.
Match 3: Jund (0-2, 1-1-1)
Game 1: He drew removal and a Huntmaster, I drew fragile, slow threats and Spell Pierce/Snare, also 8 lands.
Game 2: I got stuck on two lands and a goyf. He got out two goyfs.
Sideboard:
See above
I'm always pretty intimidated when playing this guy and it usually turns into me tilting and making 20 missplays a game. This matchup is better than these results would indicate as long as you are patient with your threats(and play RUG).
Match 4: Living End
Game 1: Turn 1 delver that refused to flip. I had a wall of counters in my hand and he burned through two living ends before I dropped goyf with counter backup. He scooped when he saw lethal on the board after a few turns. My hand was still a snapcaster and Remand[.
Game 2: I had to mull to 6 to find a counterspell, but didn't have a threat. Digging with Serum Visions and 3x Gitaxian Probe found me a Young Pyromancer turn three that would have to do. I ran him out on turn 4 with Spell Pierce mana up but he EOT Beast Within'd my untapped land and I scooped after he cast Violent Outburst the next turn with 6+ creatures in the graveyard.
Game 3: I had a hand with a snapcaster, Serum Visions, Delver, goyf and a land of each color. I didn't mull to 6 because I was on the play and hoped to have enough pressure and draw into countermagic. I got lucky and he was stuck on two lands which allowed me to beat him down to 7 before he cascaded into Living End. He made a pretty bad attack by not leaving any blockers back while I had a single 4/5 goyf to block with, and then he Beast Within'd my creature rather than his, leaving my with a 3/3 to swing back with. I had a Burst Lightning in my hand with four lands in play so I was drawing live to any land or a Snapcaster Mage. I topdecked the [CARD=Snapcaster Mage]snapcaster[/CARD=Snapcaster Mage] and he scooped.
Sideboard:
-1 Spell Snare
+1 Spell Pierce
I recently lowered the curve for this deck dropping 2 Deprive, 2 Cryptic Command and 3 lands, turning this matchup into a nightmare. I may need some sideboard graveyard hate but I'd like to see how trickbind performs.
Match 5: U/W Merfolk (2-1, 3-1-1)
Game 1: Opening hand on the play was Probe, Delver, Goyf, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, Island, Breeding Pool. I probed revealing a Aether Vial and a Lord of Atlantis. Pierced the Vial, Snared the lord and rode a blind flipped delver to victory backed by 3 Remand and a Mana Leak. Games like these are why I love playing this deck.
Game 2: He got out an early vial but I had two goyfs and could race. I pulled a GP Kansas City and didn't read his Tidebinder Mage which he Phantasmal imaged. I got beatdown by a bunch of 2/2's including Kira, Great Glass Spinner.
Game 3: He mulled to 6 and then kept a one lander. I punished him pretty hard by dropping a turn one delver and a turn three Vedalken Shackles while he still had only one land. The game might have been closer had he started playing merfolk once he got 2 lands and an active Vial but he was afraid of my shackles and didn't drop anything. I Ancient Grudge'd his Vial at some point with him never actually using it. He pathed my Insectile Aberration when he was at 7 life and then we played draw go for awhile until I found another threat. I played a delver, attacked next turn and stole his Mutavault that he activated to block. He woke up and tried dropping some blockers into a wall of counters. The next turn I attacked with an unflipped delver and the stolen Mutavault into a lone Kira and finished up with double bolt.
Sideboard:
+2 Ancient Grudge
+2 Vedalken Shackles
+2 Threads of Disloyalty
+2 Engineered Explosives
-2 Electrolyze
-1 Forked Bolt
-1 Pillar of Flame
-2 Burst Lightning
-2 Spell Pierce
Preboard this matchup is pretty bad. They have Aether Vial, Cavern of Souls, Land Disruption and 3 toughness creatures that dodge most of your removal. Post board it should be a cakewalk unless they drop 3-4 Lord of Atlantis.
Top 8
Match 1: Living End
Basically see the summary above. I had early pressure. He played around my counters and I couldn't finish. I lost in 2.
To even have a shot in this matchup you need to see 4ish lands and at least 2 counters with early pressure. And that all needs to happen by turn 3 when they can go off. Any help with this matchup would be great.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
You value knowledge, logic, and deceit. You love to pursue wisdom but also to manipulate and deceive. At your best, you are brilliant and progressive. At your worst, you are treacherous and cold. Your symbol is a water droplet. Your enemies are green and red.
I don't necessarily have a problem with Guide, he is played a little in Delver legacy decks but giving your opponent cards is not good for any reason. For me it seems there is always a blocker early game that can kill him right away. Some games you can ride him out for a win or close to it... but most you cant, and generally because you gave your opponent the answer.
And now with Vexing Devil in the mix I think he is just a better choice.
As for the cards being mentioned.
Vexing Devil is a bad magic card; it's just a skill testing card like Browbeat that casual players love. The only deck it should be in is zoo because it will put the last counter on Experiment One and they have a ridiculous threat density unlike us.
Goblin Guide is the most aggressive 1 drop ever printed. If you want to tune your deck to the aggro side of the spectrum he's an auto-include. Just know that your Spell Pierces, Remands and Mana Leaks are going to go dead quicker and replace some of them with more threats/burn. Depending on your ratio it might be best to drop delver and go RDW with slight counter backup against the unfair decks of the format.
Stromkirk Noble is just something I've been testing out. The humans clause isn't completely useless (Thalia, BTE, Bob, Tiago) and he is a house against control if you can protect him until he's out of bolt range. That said, there is a high chance that I'm just wrong but that's part of brewing.
I tried Bob in my Grixis build, and unless I was doing something wrong or playing him at the wrong time I felt he didn't fit. I always found myself wanting to play other things then him like a Clique, Studder Sprite, or counter almost as if I only wanted to drop him when I had no other cards to play.
Im down with Goyf, although Geist of Saint Traft is one of my favorite cards and has won me many a games so I would rather try that direction first. Then again step back to think, is it worth loosing Blood Moon?
I know everyones reaction to Nivmizet Elemental is going to be negative, and I'm not suggesting it. But I just thought someone might be interested that I played him as a 2 of with very little playtesting and he did very very well against RDW and RG aggro. He cost you a card, but a t2 3/4 body that can potentially grows is hard for those builds. I cannot say I tested other matches though.
It always has been. It helps you get a Delver flip, and kills efficient creatures at Instant-speed.
Modern-
Faeries
Tron
Legacy-
Painter's Grindstone (WIP)
Thanks to HOTP Studios for the sig!
I've been trying out a Delver-less Delver list recently, and I think I am finding it a little better. I swapped 4 Delvers for 4 Spellstutter Sprites, and added a third Vendilion Clique in place of the 4th Pyromancer. Also, my 3 colorless lands have become Mutavaults. I'm thinking with the Fae route I might want to add some number of Scion of Oona as well, but I'm not sure what to cut for them.
I haven't had much time to test it yet, but in the matches I've played, it seems much more consistent. Maybe not as (potentially) powerful, but you won't lose matches quite as often simply because of bricked draws, which is important for the longer tournaments. I know it's going off tangentially from what everyone else is playing, but I thought I would try to get some input.
Standard: :symu::symu::symu: Mono-Blue Devotion :symu::symu::symu:
Modern: :symr::symu: UR Pyro-Faeries :symu::symr:
EDH Decks:
Thassa, God of VALUE (now with decklist!)
Skullbriar, the Walking Grave
People with signatures are morons.
I think there is a lot of movement from people into that type of deck after testing delver for a while.
Your argument is very valid and the "delverless delver" does play much more consistently, but less explosively.
I'm personally struggling with losing the more aggressive approach with delver, but I'll probably give up in a week. 2-for-1ing our nightmares, BGx and WUR removal, with a scion is delicious. Also, Scion in place of delver does pump most of the creatures, which helps the clock.
Whether or not you drop the pyros for Scions, head on over to the Fae thread! They could use some new blood and conversation.
Hoogland cut delvers for scions. He 3-1'd a daily with the deck last night.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/urb-spellstutter/
At 23 lands is this even the same archetype?
Also, he's playing right now and is 2-0 (4-0 in games).
Is he streaming? If so, does anyone have a link?
Modern-
Faeries
Tron
Legacy-
Painter's Grindstone (WIP)
Thanks to HOTP Studios for the sig!