kaOz.Zeh wouldn't be playing with Loam Lions if the bans weren't in effect, would s/he?
my bad.
They were actually preemptive with updating this time. Last time it was like 15 days after the bans went into effect before they updated MTGO.
Also it is fair to note that kaOz.Zeh's style of zoo deck would want lions over lynxes. We have yet to see an aggressive zoo deck yet although we won't until more people start PTQ testing after the holidays.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Esper Reanimator Gifts (more than one reanimation target is good) wins, while Shamans (it's baaaaack! Oh, how I missed it!), UR Storm, Melira Pod, another Esper Reanimator Gifts (discard-heavy), Red Affinity, Counter-Cat Zoo (the new cat is Loam Lion), and a rather control-heavy Exarch Twin (Consecrated Sphinx? Sea Gate Oracle?!? At least Splinter Twin has more targets, but I'd rather play Fae Twin) get close.
UR Storm (a conventional enough list) wins, while Melira Pod, Death and Taxes, Shamans, Exarch Twin, Combo Elves (whaddya mean, no Emrakul?), and a rather unconventional UR Storm list (now with more artifacts, Locket of Yesterdays, and Thirst for Knowledge!) get close.
Here's the new, constantly updating post-Dec. 20 bans Modern Daily Analysis! Now without pilots with 2+ appearances, as there will be far too many of them by the time the next set of bans rolls around.
edit: facelift is done. I will include only the daily events after the 12/21/11 ban effective date. I will try to get all the fired events into the OP.
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
They were actually preemptive with updating this time. Last time it was like 15 days after the bans went into effect before they updated MTGO.
Also it is fair to note that kaOz.Zeh's style of zoo deck would want lions over lynxes. We have yet to see an aggressive zoo deck yet although we won't until more people start PTQ testing after the holidays.
People are PTQ testing right now. You are seeing it in action.
The top 4 was 3 UR Storm decks and 1 Ad Nauseum deck.
UR Storm is probably the most played deck in dailies right now. I don't know how much of this is due to budget issues, as opposed to the actual strength of the deck. There are a bunch of variants, some much better than others, so it's hard to tell just how good the deck is.
It wouldn't surprise me if this trend carried over to the PTQ season. There are going to be far more people at PTQs choosing decks based on budget considerations than at something like Worlds.
The top 4 was 3 UR Storm decks and 1 Ad Nauseum deck.
UR Storm is probably the most played deck in dailies right now. I don't know how much of this is due to budget issues, as opposed to the actual strength of the deck. There are a bunch of variants, some much better than others, so it's hard to tell just how good the deck is.
It wouldn't surprise me if this trend carried over to the PTQ season. There are going to be far more people at PTQs choosing decks based on budget considerations than at something like Worlds.
this probably wont continue. Zoo is pretty good against these decks especially blue zoo. UR combo deck are cheap like you said so they are getting the nod over zoo atm. Plus teachings is really strong against storm decks which can easily be hated out of the meta.
It is kinda silly that budget concerns would effect a ptq, but with zoo costing a down payment on a car or two months rent I can imagine this time around budget will affect it.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
this probably wont continue. Zoo is pretty good against these decks especially blue zoo. UR combo deck are cheap like you said so they are getting the nod over zoo atm. Plus teachings is really strong against storm decks which can easily be hated out of the meta.
It is kinda silly that budget concerns would effect a ptq, but with zoo costing a down payment on a car or two months rent I can imagine this time around budget will affect it.
Budget is a HUGE factor on MTGO.
like there are only like 3% of the user base that have the cards/resources to build Zoo.
That said, sotrm is consistently a t3-4 deck. It can race Zoo now because of the loss of Nacatl.
The thing that put Nacatl over the top was t1 Nacatl, t2 Qasali Pridemage/Noble Hierarch. exalted triggers mean that Wall of Omens and Spellskite sucked and that with my own shock lands - I was dead on their t4 with no blockers.
Barring a god draw, Past in Flames storm can race zoo now.
Everyone is building Storm right now too. Past in Flames was a 2 tix card last week. Shivan Reef was .6. Not Shivan Reef is 1 tix and Past in Flames is 4.
That is why I am playing UW- counter magic, Leyline of sanctity, Mindbreak Trap and *** are all necessary.
like there are only like 3% of the user base that have the cards/resources to build Zoo.
That said, sotrm is consistently a t3-4 deck. It can race Zoo now because of the loss of Nacatl.
The thing that put Nacatl over the top was t1 Nacatl, t2 Qasali Pridemage/Noble Hierarch. exalted triggers mean that Wall of Omens and Spellskite sucked and that with my own shock lands - I was dead on their t4 with no blockers.
Barring a god draw, Past in Flames storm can race zoo now.
Everyone is building Storm right now too. Past in Flames was a 2 tix card last week. Shivan Reef was .6. Not Shivan Reef is 1 tix and Past in Flames is 4.
That is why I am playing UW- counter magic, Leyline of sanctity, Mindbreak Trap and *** are all necessary.
we were talking about if this trend would continue at IRL PTQs. Trust me I know that MTGO is mostly budget. This is pretty evident from one large DE. Spirit stompy isn't even good against the 5-6 best decks in the format and it went 3-1.
I too like UW, I am just not a fan of the "play a big dude to win" strategy. This is why I have been a fan of decks like tron, tezz, Gifts rock, and UW gifts back when sword of the meek was legal. I am a firm believer in making my opponents spot removal dead. that is part of the draw to control decks.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
we were talking about if this trend would continue at IRL PTQs. Trust me I know that MTGO is mostly budget. This is pretty evident from one large DE. Spirit stompy isn't even good against the 5-6 best decks in the format and it went 3-1.
You can't really draw that conclusion from a single event, given variance, potential difference in play skill, and the value of surprise.
You can't really draw that conclusion from a single event, given variance, potential difference in play skill, and the value of surprise.
well it was bad against zoo in extended, and this version is slightly worse than the extended version because it had banned cards. Also zoo was pretty much the same then and now.
Also something can be said for skill level on MTGO. I used to draft all of the time, and I wish PTQs had that average play skill. Of course MTG players here in AR are a tight nit group for the most part, and for the low numbers PTQs are pretty competitive. I have played against a few people who have places in major events, and even played on the PT. I can't say how competitive PTQs are all over the world because I just haven't been there.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
like there are only like 3% of the user base that have the cards/resources to build Zoo.
That said, sotrm is consistently a t3-4 deck. It can race Zoo now because of the loss of Nacatl.
The thing that put Nacatl over the top was t1 Nacatl, t2 Qasali Pridemage/Noble Hierarch. exalted triggers mean that Wall of Omens and Spellskite sucked and that with my own shock lands - I was dead on their t4 with no blockers.
Barring a god draw, Past in Flames storm can race zoo now.
Everyone is building Storm right now too. Past in Flames was a 2 tix card last week. Shivan Reef was .6. Not Shivan Reef is 1 tix and Past in Flames is 4.
That is why I am playing UW- counter magic, Leyline of sanctity, Mindbreak Trap and *** are all necessary.
The PiF decks won't last. They're more vulnerable to graveyard hate than Living end is (mass graveyard hate, not extractions). That said, I played against a mono red storm deck that won on turn 2. They're a lot more powerful than I gave them credit for, but thankfully, they're much more fragile than traditional storm decks.
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The PiF decks won't last. They're more vulnerable to graveyard hate than Living end is (mass graveyard hate, not extractions). That said, I played against a mono red storm deck that won on turn 2. They're a lot more powerful than I gave them credit for, but thankfully, they're much more fragile than traditional storm decks.
It is a perfect glass cannon though because of the fact that it is really resilient and can SB weirdly to foil your trumps ("O nice leyline, I am playing EtW", or "Nice *** I went with grapeshots").
I have Relics in my SB too....
Leyline of the Void + Counterspells wrecks it though. You are right.
The deck reminds me of RDW. when people are prepared for it, probably the worst deck to play. However, when people are under prepared, watch out.
It is a perfect glass cannon though because of the fact that it is really resilient and can SB weirdly to foil your trumps ("O nice leyline, I am playing EtW", or "Nice *** I went with grapeshots").
I have Relics in my SB too....
Leyline of the Void + Counterspells wrecks it though. You are right.
The deck reminds me of RDW. when people are prepared for it, probably the worst deck to play. However, when people are under prepared, watch out.
this is quite true for several tier 2 decks. Affinity back when it still had the lands was quite a good deck until people started running ancient grudge, shattering spree, and the plethora of creatures that destroy artifacts.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Storm would be really weak to a fae deck. Maybe we can revive a terrible version of UB fae if storm some how takes over the format. Anything with a bit of discard and few counterspells would really wreck storm. a few MBT in board couldn't hurt either.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
If storm maintains it stance Ill be stoked with running pox rock at the first PTQ I get too. But I think the lack of Zoo online is highly do to the cost of Goyf. My local meta is a lot of legacy players that also want to play modern. Tons of goyf action.
If storm maintains it stance Ill be stoked with running pox rock at the first PTQ I get too. But I think the lack of Zoo online is highly do to the cost of Goyf. My local meta is a lot of legacy players that also want to play modern. Tons of goyf action.
It is too bad more MTGO players aren't smart enough to see the trends on Goyf, because like ljust 3 weeks ago he was 40 tix. Now...like 80.
It is too bad more MTGO players aren't smart enough to see the trends on Goyf, because like ljust 3 weeks ago he was 40 tix. Now...like 80.
Maybe that is why they are 80 lol. Half the people just didn't get paid in time while the others drove up demand which drove up the price.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
From the 12/2 PureMTGO "State of the Program" article:
"Tarmogoyf $63.36 $63.36"
That is the listed retail price at a "major re-seller" for three and four weeks ago.
63 != 40. Not even same ballpark.
Nonetheless, other than that correction, you're right. And you're right that Goyf is at $81.31 right now. Goyf, unless reprinted, will probably always be >$50 for the Foreseeable future. And that's being conservative. Low 60's would be about right. They may drop again "after the season", and the same thing'll happen all over.
It is true that was the retailer price. I saw ads in classified section for $40. As someone who spec buys a lot to mitigate costs, I shop there a bunch.
But you are right. Major retailers are what most people look at and they were as low as 50 at one point though.
As both Storm and LEM (Living End Modern, cool name as Stanislaw Lem is one of my favourite writers )pilot I must add something relevant I think.
Storm decks, no matter is it UR or crazy mono R version are capable to transform after SB in many directions to avoid hate.
Currently I run Grapeshot main deck, but Empty the Warrens AND Kiln Fiend Sideboard. T2 Kiln and T3 kill aren't uncommon. It is killer against control strategies that usually side out spot removal.
More and more decks I see use both Grapeshot and Empty the Warrens maindeck and the latter one needs grand total zero cards in graveyard to kill you, just cast 8/9 random spells, EtW, kills you next round.
UR storm is even more resillient to hate, it basically gives up one round to get blue tools (better draws, counterspells and bounce in SB).
The bottom line is you can win with storm without graveyard, but you can't do it when piloting LEM. Well technically you CAN, just play lands and hardcast fatties, but it's not going to happen often.
Coincidentally, the final of last night's daily was between UR Storm and Living End.
Storm won the first game. The second game, Living End mulliganed once or twice into a Leyline of the Void and won. The third game Living End tried this again (I think) but ended up keeping s 5-card hand with no Leyline and lost.
I'm not sure that mulliganing into Leyline was a good strategy there.
Mulliganning into Leyline is a very half-baked plan, but at least the black Leyline is relevant in stopping the Past in Flames engine and disrupting a Pyromancer Ascension. I can't possibly express how useless the white Leyline is against storm combo decks, but people continue to run it and I continue to draw my entire deck and find my Echoing Truth/Engineered Explosives before Grapeshotting for 70+ damage.
Is there a way we can mine any more data from the daily events? We have opponent win %, game win %, and Opp game win % but that all seems pretty worthless without having the results from every deck.
For all we know the most recent 4-0 deck could have played against a plant tribal deck all 4 rounds. Maybe we should send wotc emails asking that they publish the full results list with every list that was played and its record. I can easily pop out some valid win % numbers.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Is there a way we can mine any more data from the daily events? We have opponent win %, game win %, and Opp game win % but that all seems pretty worthless without having the results from every deck.
For all we know the most recent 4-0 deck could have played against a plant tribal deck all 4 rounds. Maybe we should send wotc emails asking that they publish the full results list with every list that was played and its record. I can easily pop out some valid win % numbers.
The replays are publicly watchable for a while. So if you're willing to put in some effort, you can compile this data.
The Dec. 20 Bans page on Wizards says this:
kaOz.Zeh wouldn't be playing with Loam Lions if the bans weren't in effect, would s/he?
my bad.
They were actually preemptive with updating this time. Last time it was like 15 days after the bans went into effect before they updated MTGO.
Also it is fair to note that kaOz.Zeh's style of zoo deck would want lions over lynxes. We have yet to see an aggressive zoo deck yet although we won't until more people start PTQ testing after the holidays.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I'm going to steal this for the OP facelift.
edit: facelift is done. I will include only the daily events after the 12/21/11 ban effective date. I will try to get all the fired events into the OP.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
People are PTQ testing right now. You are seeing it in action.
The top 4 was 3 UR Storm decks and 1 Ad Nauseum deck.
UR Storm is probably the most played deck in dailies right now. I don't know how much of this is due to budget issues, as opposed to the actual strength of the deck. There are a bunch of variants, some much better than others, so it's hard to tell just how good the deck is.
It wouldn't surprise me if this trend carried over to the PTQ season. There are going to be far more people at PTQs choosing decks based on budget considerations than at something like Worlds.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
this probably wont continue. Zoo is pretty good against these decks especially blue zoo. UR combo deck are cheap like you said so they are getting the nod over zoo atm. Plus teachings is really strong against storm decks which can easily be hated out of the meta.
It is kinda silly that budget concerns would effect a ptq, but with zoo costing a down payment on a car or two months rent I can imagine this time around budget will affect it.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Budget is a HUGE factor on MTGO.
like there are only like 3% of the user base that have the cards/resources to build Zoo.
That said, sotrm is consistently a t3-4 deck. It can race Zoo now because of the loss of Nacatl.
The thing that put Nacatl over the top was t1 Nacatl, t2 Qasali Pridemage/Noble Hierarch. exalted triggers mean that Wall of Omens and Spellskite sucked and that with my own shock lands - I was dead on their t4 with no blockers.
Barring a god draw, Past in Flames storm can race zoo now.
Everyone is building Storm right now too. Past in Flames was a 2 tix card last week. Shivan Reef was .6. Not Shivan Reef is 1 tix and Past in Flames is 4.
That is why I am playing UW- counter magic, Leyline of sanctity, Mindbreak Trap and *** are all necessary.
we were talking about if this trend would continue at IRL PTQs. Trust me I know that MTGO is mostly budget. This is pretty evident from one large DE. Spirit stompy isn't even good against the 5-6 best decks in the format and it went 3-1.
I too like UW, I am just not a fan of the "play a big dude to win" strategy. This is why I have been a fan of decks like tron, tezz, Gifts rock, and UW gifts back when sword of the meek was legal. I am a firm believer in making my opponents spot removal dead. that is part of the draw to control decks.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
You can't really draw that conclusion from a single event, given variance, potential difference in play skill, and the value of surprise.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
UR Storm/Splinter Twin
Martyr-Proc/Death and Taxes/White Weenie Strategies
Melira Pod
Affinity
Esper Control (Gifts, Teachings, etc)
Combo Elves
Zoo
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
well it was bad against zoo in extended, and this version is slightly worse than the extended version because it had banned cards. Also zoo was pretty much the same then and now.
Also something can be said for skill level on MTGO. I used to draft all of the time, and I wish PTQs had that average play skill. Of course MTG players here in AR are a tight nit group for the most part, and for the low numbers PTQs are pretty competitive. I have played against a few people who have places in major events, and even played on the PT. I can't say how competitive PTQs are all over the world because I just haven't been there.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
The PiF decks won't last. They're more vulnerable to graveyard hate than Living end is (mass graveyard hate, not extractions). That said, I played against a mono red storm deck that won on turn 2. They're a lot more powerful than I gave them credit for, but thankfully, they're much more fragile than traditional storm decks.
It is a perfect glass cannon though because of the fact that it is really resilient and can SB weirdly to foil your trumps ("O nice leyline, I am playing EtW", or "Nice *** I went with grapeshots").
I have Relics in my SB too....
Leyline of the Void + Counterspells wrecks it though. You are right.
The deck reminds me of RDW. when people are prepared for it, probably the worst deck to play. However, when people are under prepared, watch out.
this is quite true for several tier 2 decks. Affinity back when it still had the lands was quite a good deck until people started running ancient grudge, shattering spree, and the plethora of creatures that destroy artifacts.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Pretty much this...
Easy to hate out, but hard to beat
zoo is worse lol.
Storm would be really weak to a fae deck. Maybe we can revive a terrible version of UB fae if storm some how takes over the format. Anything with a bit of discard and few counterspells would really wreck storm. a few MBT in board couldn't hurt either.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
It is too bad more MTGO players aren't smart enough to see the trends on Goyf, because like ljust 3 weeks ago he was 40 tix. Now...like 80.
Maybe that is why they are 80 lol. Half the people just didn't get paid in time while the others drove up demand which drove up the price.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
It is true that was the retailer price. I saw ads in classified section for $40. As someone who spec buys a lot to mitigate costs, I shop there a bunch.
But you are right. Major retailers are what most people look at and they were as low as 50 at one point though.
Coincidentally, the final of last night's daily was between UR Storm and Living End.
Storm won the first game. The second game, Living End mulliganed once or twice into a Leyline of the Void and won. The third game Living End tried this again (I think) but ended up keeping s 5-card hand with no Leyline and lost.
I'm not sure that mulliganing into Leyline was a good strategy there.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
For all we know the most recent 4-0 deck could have played against a plant tribal deck all 4 rounds. Maybe we should send wotc emails asking that they publish the full results list with every list that was played and its record. I can easily pop out some valid win % numbers.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
The replays are publicly watchable for a while. So if you're willing to put in some effort, you can compile this data.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)