Who says they pitch anything? What if it just ends up becoming a 0 mana storm increase?
what if gitaxian probe is better at that? What if Dream's Grip does it better? People can argue sure you could throw x card in y deck all day long but is it better than other options....no. Most of the storm decks don't run dream's grip and it can help against counterspells while also being a "free" spell.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
what if gitaxian probe is better at that? What if Dream's Grip does it better? People can argue sure you could throw x card in y deck all day long but is it better than other options....no. Most of the storm decks don't run dream's grip and it can help against counterspells while also being a "free" spell.
But it's more versatile than both, because it can either be free or ramp...
But it's more versatile than both, because it can either be free or ramp...
then what do you pitch to it? Storm decks rely on Past in flames so even pitching a ritual to it might give you a higher chance of fizzling. Probe is strait up better.
Also it is not free. -2 card advantage for a 0 cost ramp spell is not worth it. Your better off just running another ritual, or a cantrip.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
then what do you pitch to it? Storm decks rely on Past in flames so even pitching a ritual to it might give you a higher chance of fizzling. Probe is strait up better.
Also it is not free. -2 card advantage for a 0 cost ramp spell is not worth it. Your better off just running another ritual, or a cantrip.
I didn't mean it was "free" in the that sense. I meant it was just a free spell (think Gix Probe).
Well ad nauseum can run angel's grace with phyrexian unlife. So that's 8 copies, one of which buys you more time. Lack of tutors is a big problem, you'd need to hit 4 mana to drop teachings or gifts.
At the end of the day, you can do a whole lot worse than a 2 combo that wins you the game.
Not trying to argue that chrome mox should stay banned, just that ad nauseum shouldn't be dismissed.
Just because a card wasnt used in a certain way in an older format, doesnt mean with new cards in a new format it wouldnt be used in any deck. Just look at old Zoo decks from 4-5 years ago. Do they look the same today? Nope. The new cards printed have changed the interactions and synergy of the deck.
For anyone to say a card wouldnt be used in a deck is very narrow sighted and not innovative. Without trying things we end up with a stale format.
Just because a card wasnt used in a certain way in an older format, doesnt mean with new cards in a new format it wouldnt be used in any deck. Just look at old Zoo decks from 4-5 years ago. Do they look the same today? Nope. The new cards printed have changed the interactions and synergy of the deck.
For anyone to say a card wouldnt be used in a deck is very narrow sighted and not innovative. Without trying things we end up with a stale format.
except this was 2 years ago and not 4-5 years ago. Sure people try it, but thier decks would be strictly worse so who cares. Let them be dumb and put a card that makes their deck worse. More wins for me.
Just because new cards come into the format doesn't mean that the basic principles of magic are broken.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
except this was 2 years ago and not 4-5 years ago. Sure people try it, but thier decks would be strictly worse so who cares. Let them be dumb and put a card that makes their deck worse. More wins for me.
Just because new cards come into the format doesn't mean that the basic principles of magic are broken.
If you have not stepped away from the game for some time, you just dont understand. Those that have been playing have adjusted over time. Even 2-3 years ago things were different. We just dont see it because we have adjusted with the game.
If new cards dont change the game, why keep printing new cards?
The priciples of the game have changed too. Just look at old format forms. The mind set from 7 years ago will not work in todays Magic, and to me thats not a bad thing. Changing how you have to think about the game is good for the game.
The rules changes change how the game is played. Power creep changes the way the game is played. (I am by no means complaining about power creep,its part of the game). New players have changed the way the game is played. Those that try and keep playing Magic from 5 years ago are the ones who seem to be upset by how the format is shaping up.
You keep playing your 'old' style magic. Let the rest of us move the format forward.
If you have not stepped away from the game for some time, you just dont understand. Those that have been playing have adjusted over time. Even 2-3 years ago things were different. We just dont see it because we have adjusted with the game.
If new cards dont change the game, why keep printing new cards?
The priciples of the game have changed too. Just look at old format forms. The mind set from 7 years ago will not work in todays Magic, and to me thats not a bad thing. Changing how you have to think about the game is good for the game.
The rules changes change how the game is played. Power creep changes the way the game is played. (I am by no means complaining about power creep,its part of the game). New players have changed the way the game is played. Those that try and keep playing Magic from 5 years ago are the ones who seem to be upset by how the format is shaping up.
You keep playing your 'old' style magic. Let the rest of us move the format forward.
so playing on sound fundamentals like common sense is old magic? I hate how they have noobed up this game, but that doesn't make things like card advantage a thing of the past. Things still work just in the same way. This format would be exactly the same 2 years ago as today if we had the same ban list. A few decks got a couple of cards, but that is not enough to change how magic works. The decks we have today are the decks we have had for a long time now. Zoo has been zoo since rav. Sure it has gotten faster, but the deck plays the same. Sure weisman control has gotten worse because the eradication of good counterspells and instant speed draw spells, but it still exist in much the same way when the format is slow. Pod is just a slower oath of druids deck.
Even look at standard:
UW Illusions- counterslivers
WRR- tinker midrange like this deck My Fires - Zvi Mowshowitz
UW control- Weisman
The more you look at it nothing has changed except for the addition to planeswalker which are just creatures that are hard to deal with that have modal effects. Sure creatures have gotten better, but that doesn't do anything but make the game much much faster since aggro sets the pace of the format.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
so playing on sound fundamentals like common sense is old magic? I hate how they have noobed up this game, but that doesn't make things like card advantage a thing of the past. Things still work just in the same way. This format would be exactly the same 2 years ago as today if we had the same ban list. A few decks got a couple of cards, but that is not enough to change how magic works. The decks we have today are the decks we have had for a long time now. Zoo has been zoo since rav. Sure it has gotten faster, but the deck plays the same. Sure weisman control has gotten worse because the eradication of good counterspells and instant speed draw spells, but it still exist in much the same way when the format is slow. Pod is just a slower oath of druids deck.
Even look at standard:
UW Illusions- counterslivers
WRR- tinker midrange like this deck My Fires - Zvi Mowshowitz
UW control- Weisman
The more you look at it nothing has changed except for the addition to planeswalker which are just creatures that are hard to deal with that have modal effects. Sure creatures have gotten better, but that doesn't do anything but make the game much much faster since aggro sets the pace of the format.
I am going to just agree to disagree with you about this. You seem to yearn for some magical old days of magic and I just want to play the game and have adjusted to it. I dont see it as you do, you dont see it as I do. Nothing more, nothing less. I learned along time ago to not sweat the things you cant control or change. We have no power on what gets printed or what they push.
Before you go and say I dont know what I am talking about, I have said I wish I could play blink riders in Modern but I sleeved it up and with the change in rules from when it was a deck and the speed change, it is not a deck that can be played now. You dont hear me screaming in every thread thats not fair, no, I just move on and find something that works for me. I just want to play the game.
Some of your comparisions are way off, some are close, but I dont see it as you do. You are looking for the old in the new while I am just looking at the new.
I feel what you're saying since I came back to magic after over decade so it was a huge adjustment for me though I actually like the faster pace of the game since I was always a fan of sligh decks. Magic has just evolved and it's not a bad thing. If you want a slower format that is fun then try commander. It will give u the chance to play the 5 or 6 cc cards that were played ages ago. Competitive magic on the other hand has gotten a lot more competitive and I prefer it that way. To each his own I guess. I have a few friends who like the old and slower format too since they are really old school and have not evolved with time so they don't play competitive magic and play kitchen table in their playgroup and there is nothing wrong with that (it's actually fun). They dread playing against me since I always win due to using refined legacy list, to the point where I had to make a slower dumbed down deck to make things fair.
I am going to just agree to disagree with you about this. You seem to yearn for some magical old days of magic and I just want to play the game and have adjusted to it. I dont see it as you do, you dont see it as I do. Nothing more, nothing less. I learned along time ago to not sweat the things you cant control or change. We have no power on what gets printed or what they push.
Before you go and say I dont know what I am talking about, I have said I wish I could play blink riders in Modern but I sleeved it up and with the change in rules from when it was a deck and the speed change, it is not a deck that can be played now. You dont hear me screaming in every thread thats not fair, no, I just move on and find something that works for me. I just want to play the game.
I have been working on a build. It is not great but it is fun when it works. It may stay poor, but I keep trying.
All the cards that make chrome mox any good for modern are banned. Not for any tempo or aggro based builds. You either flat out win with the card or it no good and when your winning with it usually don't involve creatures.
I have been working on a build. It is not great but it is fun when it works. It may stay poor, but I keep trying.
I have found I am always looking for a card and have no way to get it in my hand when I need it. The game ends and I am like, If I only had gotten 'x' card here I think I could have pulled it out. Also as good as riftwing was at slowing aggro back in the day, she just doesnt cut it now. Creatures are bigger and faster now.
I have found I am always looking for a card and have no way to get it in my hand when I need it. The game ends and I am like, If I only had gotten 'x' card here I think I could have pulled it out. Also as good as riftwing was at slowing aggro back in the day, she just doesnt cut it now. Creatures are bigger and faster now.
I have never looked at a "Blink Riders" list, but mine is probably pretty close since when you look for the best cards to use to abuse Blink effects you will eventually get to the same ones. Is it draw that is missing? Like I said I never looked at an old build, so I am not sure what has been taken from it.
If the store owner says that I can't trade in the premises, I'll just go outside. If he says that I can't trade within 10m of his premises, I'll go to 11 meters. If he says that he doesn't want to see me trading, I will put a basket over his head and continue trading.
Yes, he's a local legend. He's only known to take his clothes off before he goes into the Ladies' Lockerroom. Nobody knows what he does in there because he's invisible, but it's almost certainly tons of masturbating.
I have never looked at a "Blink Riders" list, but mine is probably pretty close since when you look for the best cards to use to abuse Blink effects you will eventually get to the same ones. Is it draw that is missing? Like I said I never looked at an old build, so I am not sure what has been taken from it.
It played AV for a while and then another build came along that ran think twice. (Lets not start the AV debate again) I will have to play around with the draw we have. Like you said, its fun when it works, frustrating when it doesnt.
It played AV for a while and then another build came along that ran think twice. (Lets not start the AV debate again) I will have to play around with the draw we have. Like you said, its fun when it works, frustrating when it doesnt.
land mox Dark confidant
land mox isochron scepter to boomerang/deprive/silence
island mox go (:D)
That is a sad excuse. Scepter is not even competitive in modern, and bob is easily killed. Would it be so bad to let control have turn 3 wrath of gods?
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
That is a sad excuse. Scepter is not even competitive in modern, and bob is easily killed. Would it be so bad to let control have turn 3 wrath of gods?
People complain about zoo. mox allows turn 2 timely and turn 3 wrath. That would put zoo in its place a lot more effectively than banning random ****.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Chrome Mox makes every single combo deck one turn faster. Having it in the format is counter-productive while Wizards is trying to balance it so games end no sooner than turn four.
People need to stop pretending that only their pet decks would play unfair cards.
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On average, Magic players are worse at new card evaluation than almost every other skill, except perhaps sideboarding.
That is a sad excuse. Scepter is not even competitive in modern, and bob is easily killed. Would it be so bad to let control have turn 3 wrath of gods?
Would it suffice you if they made a 1WW Sorcery that wrathed if it was the first 3 turns and maybe has a less powerful effect after the 3rd? idk
Anyways, I see the format ALOT healthier now than from the start and it is coming close to Wizard's vision for the format. Once the format is more diverse and the clock is stable to 4-5 turn kills, the next step maybe is to start unbanning some cards that may hold back decks from being tier 2 or 1.5 to tier 1 status along with many other types of decks.
Scepter is not competitive because Mox is banned. Zoo, rdw and random aggro cant beat a turn 1 scepter to lightning helix. Control cant beat a recursive boomerang on lands from turn 2.
And a Pyromancer´s ascension turn 1 its simply broken.
Zoo has answers for scepter. Other decks have answers for scepter. What I don't understand is how so many people can be that blind. Just because a card/engine is good against a deck doesn't mean ****. The odds of turn 1 scepter with helix is ridiculous. You would also be left with 2 cards in hand if you were on the play. Some times things happen and you just can't win. If your example so so damn good then why don't people just use simian spirit guide instead? It would have the same exact effect. You can even play a pyromancer's acension turn 1 without 2 for 1ing yourself.
Scepter-silence became much worse when snapcaster was released.
How is that? It wasn't good before that point because jund and zoo both have answers to it main decked. Not to mention that you don't have a good way to search for either piece. Mention I said GOOD WAY.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Thomas Jefferson
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what if gitaxian probe is better at that? What if Dream's Grip does it better? People can argue sure you could throw x card in y deck all day long but is it better than other options....no. Most of the storm decks don't run dream's grip and it can help against counterspells while also being a "free" spell.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
But it's more versatile than both, because it can either be free or ramp...
then what do you pitch to it? Storm decks rely on Past in flames so even pitching a ritual to it might give you a higher chance of fizzling. Probe is strait up better.
Also it is not free. -2 card advantage for a 0 cost ramp spell is not worth it. Your better off just running another ritual, or a cantrip.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I didn't mean it was "free" in the that sense. I meant it was just a free spell (think Gix Probe).
And I also didn't say it would be used in PIF.
At the end of the day, you can do a whole lot worse than a 2 combo that wins you the game.
Not trying to argue that chrome mox should stay banned, just that ad nauseum shouldn't be dismissed.
For anyone to say a card wouldnt be used in a deck is very narrow sighted and not innovative. Without trying things we end up with a stale format.
except this was 2 years ago and not 4-5 years ago. Sure people try it, but thier decks would be strictly worse so who cares. Let them be dumb and put a card that makes their deck worse. More wins for me.
Just because new cards come into the format doesn't mean that the basic principles of magic are broken.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
If you have not stepped away from the game for some time, you just dont understand. Those that have been playing have adjusted over time. Even 2-3 years ago things were different. We just dont see it because we have adjusted with the game.
If new cards dont change the game, why keep printing new cards?
The priciples of the game have changed too. Just look at old format forms. The mind set from 7 years ago will not work in todays Magic, and to me thats not a bad thing. Changing how you have to think about the game is good for the game.
The rules changes change how the game is played. Power creep changes the way the game is played. (I am by no means complaining about power creep,its part of the game). New players have changed the way the game is played. Those that try and keep playing Magic from 5 years ago are the ones who seem to be upset by how the format is shaping up.
You keep playing your 'old' style magic. Let the rest of us move the format forward.
so playing on sound fundamentals like common sense is old magic? I hate how they have noobed up this game, but that doesn't make things like card advantage a thing of the past. Things still work just in the same way. This format would be exactly the same 2 years ago as today if we had the same ban list. A few decks got a couple of cards, but that is not enough to change how magic works. The decks we have today are the decks we have had for a long time now. Zoo has been zoo since rav. Sure it has gotten faster, but the deck plays the same. Sure weisman control has gotten worse because the eradication of good counterspells and instant speed draw spells, but it still exist in much the same way when the format is slow. Pod is just a slower oath of druids deck.
Even look at standard:
UW Illusions- counterslivers
WRR- tinker midrange like this deck My Fires - Zvi Mowshowitz
UW control- Weisman
The more you look at it nothing has changed except for the addition to planeswalker which are just creatures that are hard to deal with that have modal effects. Sure creatures have gotten better, but that doesn't do anything but make the game much much faster since aggro sets the pace of the format.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I am going to just agree to disagree with you about this. You seem to yearn for some magical old days of magic and I just want to play the game and have adjusted to it. I dont see it as you do, you dont see it as I do. Nothing more, nothing less. I learned along time ago to not sweat the things you cant control or change. We have no power on what gets printed or what they push.
Before you go and say I dont know what I am talking about, I have said I wish I could play blink riders in Modern but I sleeved it up and with the change in rules from when it was a deck and the speed change, it is not a deck that can be played now. You dont hear me screaming in every thread thats not fair, no, I just move on and find something that works for me. I just want to play the game.
Some of your comparisions are way off, some are close, but I dont see it as you do. You are looking for the old in the new while I am just looking at the new.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
I have found I am always looking for a card and have no way to get it in my hand when I need it. The game ends and I am like, If I only had gotten 'x' card here I think I could have pulled it out. Also as good as riftwing was at slowing aggro back in the day, she just doesnt cut it now. Creatures are bigger and faster now.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Maybe they could ban scepter if chrome mox is unbanned? Isochron scepter seems a mistake to me anyway.
It played AV for a while and then another build came along that ran think twice. (Lets not start the AV debate again) I will have to play around with the draw we have. Like you said, its fun when it works, frustrating when it doesnt.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
That is a sad excuse. Scepter is not even competitive in modern, and bob is easily killed. Would it be so bad to let control have turn 3 wrath of gods?
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Yea, I think it might be.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
People complain about zoo. mox allows turn 2 timely and turn 3 wrath. That would put zoo in its place a lot more effectively than banning random ****.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
People need to stop pretending that only their pet decks would play unfair cards.
Would it suffice you if they made a 1WW Sorcery that wrathed if it was the first 3 turns and maybe has a less powerful effect after the 3rd? idk
Anyways, I see the format ALOT healthier now than from the start and it is coming close to Wizard's vision for the format. Once the format is more diverse and the clock is stable to 4-5 turn kills, the next step maybe is to start unbanning some cards that may hold back decks from being tier 2 or 1.5 to tier 1 status along with many other types of decks.
:symwr:BorosBGR Living End(Primer) W Soul Sisters Tokens
UGrand Architect+Pili-Pala Infinite combo:symq::chaos:
Zoo has answers for scepter. Other decks have answers for scepter. What I don't understand is how so many people can be that blind. Just because a card/engine is good against a deck doesn't mean ****. The odds of turn 1 scepter with helix is ridiculous. You would also be left with 2 cards in hand if you were on the play. Some times things happen and you just can't win. If your example so so damn good then why don't people just use simian spirit guide instead? It would have the same exact effect. You can even play a pyromancer's acension turn 1 without 2 for 1ing yourself.
How is that? It wasn't good before that point because jund and zoo both have answers to it main decked. Not to mention that you don't have a good way to search for either piece. Mention I said GOOD WAY.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson