People keep saying "Give it time, the banned list will get smaller", yet every 3 months, the damn thing gets a few cards longer.
The "give it time" excuse isn't going to cut it anymore. The whole attitude WoTC has towards banning cards in this format is annoying, and the fact that they keep changing their position on what they want Modern to be is also frustrating to all hell.
People keep saying "Give it time, the banned list will get smaller", yet every 3 months, the damn thing gets a few cards longer.
The "give it time" excuse isn't going to cut it anymore. The whole attitude WoTC has towards banning cards in this format is annoying, and the fact that they keep changing their position on what they want Modern to be is also frustrating to all hell.
/rant
This. I mean the format would settle if they would quit banning cards every 3 months. Just because a meta game is settled doesn't mean that its good. Look at standard with caw-blade. That meta was completely settled yet more people *****ed about it than about brainstorm in legacy.
It will take unbans and a new mantra of what this format is supposed to be for it to work. This turn 4 thing is what we have in standard and extended. Forcing a card pool to be something that its not just makes every card in the set worse. I understand weakening overly dominant decks, I do. However for a deck to be overly dominant it would have to been dominant more than 1 3 months cycle and more than one major tournament. Take 12post out of the philly meta and we have something good to start with. Then they could have banned something in December if it was dominant at philly and worlds.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Anyone who thought 9 months into the format it would be balanced and diverse needs a reality check. It may take another year before it gets to the point where Legacy is. It took Legacy almost 2 years to balance out.
Anyone who thought 9 months into the format it would be balanced and diverse needs a reality check. It may take another year before it gets to the point where Legacy is. It took Legacy almost 2 years to balance out.
There is a big difference between legacy and modern though. We know what cards and interactions exist in modern for the most part. We only have 2 blocks and 1 set to comb through that is actually new to the format. Plus think of all of the mistakes made by R&D. Hell urza's block alone has like 200 powerful cards several of which are on the ban list.
Say we take the extended we have now and make it eternal. We have that mostly figured out at first.
Modern will only change with the ban list and new sets. The meta would have been set in the very beginning if the ban list was the old extended ban list. Then you could go through and start with the most broken combo cards(hypergen & dark depths) then let the format evolve from there for 6 months. After that point then you should reevaluate cards that need to be banned or decks that are too good.
Wotc did modern backwards. Instead of banning every powerful card let the meta present itself then start banning. If they would have followed this policy the meta would be stable, and we would have half as many cards on the ban list because evil cards from the past would be proven either good or bad for the format.(hint bitterblossom and JTMS would not hurt the format)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Anyone who thought 9 months into the format it would be balanced and diverse needs a reality check. It may take another year before it gets to the point where Legacy is. It took Legacy almost 2 years to balance out.
hard to let things settle with knee-jerk bans every quarter.
Anyone who thought 9 months into the format it would be balanced and diverse needs a reality check. It may take another year before it gets to the point where Legacy is. It took Legacy almost 2 years to balance out.
It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of Philosophy. If they keep banning random cards every 3 months, the format will never settle, and cards will never be unbanned. WoTC's mentality has to change if Modern is ever going to be anything more than a joke
hard to let things settle with knee-jerk bans every quarter.
I do agree with you, mark the calander!!
It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of Philosophy. If they keep banning random cards every 3 months, the format will never settle, and cards will never be unbanned. WoTC's mentality has to change if Modern is ever going to be anything more than a joke
What seems random to some, seems justifiable to others. I agree banning cards every 3 months from 1 half tourny, the format will never settle. There needs time for people to adjust. That being said, I feel some are looking for Legacy type power in Modern and others are looking for something inbetween Stadard and Legacy. Personally I dont care if the format is weaker then Standard as long as its balanced. The balance is the part I want more then power.
Honestly, the bans make sense, though their consistency is a bit off. A piece of zoo probably should have gotten axed back in September, while, from what I can tell, Punishing Fire was just barely getting geared up to be a problem.
I would expect zoo to get another piece taken before all is said and done because the problem isn't so much a single efficient creature, rather than a horde of them. But because they've taken their time with it, focusing on limiting combo and control, it's going to cause another uproar from the masses that the bannings are never going to stop.
As it stands, the bannings have slowed down and are at a trickle (21ish to 6ish to 2). They may have been a little heavy handed crushing the problem cards of previous formats, but we'll probably see some of them removed the next go around and have another batch of cards to work with in the new set.
Who knows, maybe there's something completely broken in the new set in conjunction with cards on the ban list and that's why they've held back.
What seems random to some, seems justifiable to others. I agree banning cards every 3 months from 1 half tourny, the format will never settle. There needs time for people to adjust. That being said, I feel some are looking for Legacy type power in Modern and others are looking for something inbetween Stadard and Legacy. Personally I dont care if the format is weaker then Standard as long as its balanced. The balance is the part I want more then power.
The lack of power is why I sparingly play standard. Extended was the perfect middle point between legacys brokenness and standard boring-ness.(yeah new word lol)
The problem so far is that every body and their brother wants to play old standard and block redux that just aren't capable. I mean we have had like 15 ghost dad threads over the last several months. Decks like that just aren't going to work. The power level between lorwyn and scars was almost obnoxious for creatures.
Block specific strategies will not work in a big card pool. So when bobs ghost dad deck doesn't work he blames what ever deck he lost to as a problem deck in the format, or maybe he even points out a card.
I have played 85% extended up until the messed it up. It was a skill intensive format were combo, aggro, control, and midrange decks could all thrive. Sure it had a few problems here and there, but it rotated so those fixed themselves. Stuff like teps, legacy style dredge, and other powerful combos would be way too powerful for modern, These all rotates away from the card pool leaving 2 broken combo decks in the new format.(MRD-FORWARD like modern is)
Dark depths wasn't a mistake until a certain vampire broke it. It was too fast although it was easy to answer. It warped the format considerable though. Then you had hypergen which was the second best combo deck, but it had a really bad matchup against dark depths. It would have ruled the format had dark depths not existed. We had zoo(which was not remotely dominant even though it had a pretty good game against DD)
We also had
Boros
RDW/BURN
UW gifts
UW tron
UW tezz
Scapeshift
Faeries/NLU(bitterblossom was too weak to run in the format)
Doran aggro
Rock
death cloud rock
Affinity
Elves
DD(should have been banned)
hypergen(should have been banned)
All of these decks were tier 1/1.5
Then other rogue decks existed in large numbers. Everything from chapins grixis-ultimatum, to 5 color hate, GW hateraid, TaN, KCI, Pyromancers ascension, ect.
I had made 3 different control brews that were pretty good. I only got to go to one PTQ where I played affinity(for budget reasons) and went x/3 after some bad beats to 2 different junk decks, and a NLU deck.
(I beat idiot-life, DD, Hypergen, NLU, zoo, and a boros deck)
Can anyone tell me a format like that sounds bad? This is mostly what we would have if wotc had not went so ban happy. We had 2 problem decks in that format(although 1 made the other unplayable)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
This format is shaping up to be standard version II. Standard sucks crap and now modern does too. I'm going back to playing legacy and I hope most people will follow suit so that Wizards stops banning useless cards that can be dealt with. Punishing fire didn't need a ban though I can understand why they did it since people are too lazy to sideboard against it. Banning wild nactl didn't do sh!t to weakening zoo. They banned way too many cards without letting the meta develop and that's why zoo is dominating. They made zoo so good by banning all other viable decks, hell even I was playing zoo (without punishing grove combo) in modern and am now dismantling the deck since no one shows up anymore to the modern events at my local gaming store. There are so many legacy turn ups that if you dont show up in time you don't get a place to sit. I got away from legacy for a couple months to experience modern and it was a boring run. I guess I had to bore myself to death in this worthless format to realize how fun legacy is after returning to it. Hopefully when there aren't too many people left to play modern, wizards will wake up and unban some cards. I could understand some of the bans though many are not worth being on that list and I wont mention which ones since everyone has already pointed most of them out. Also, wizards R&D should play magic once in a while cuz I don't think they play much to be making such crappy decisions. Only thing that needed banning is dark depths, hypergen and cloud posts and maybe the red rituals. Anyways I just had to express my feelings since I will not be returning to this part of the forum anymore. Have fun turning creatures sideways guys. You might as well just start playing yugioh and pokemon:p
This format is shaping up to be standard version II. Standard sucks crap and now modern does too. I'm going back to playing legacy and I hope most people will follow suit so that Wizards stops banning useless cards that can be dealt with. Punishing fire didn't need a ban though I can understand why they did it since people are too lazy to sideboard against it. Banning wild nactl didn't do sh!t to weakening zoo. They banned way too many cards without letting the meta develop and that's why zoo is dominating. They made zoo so good by banning all other viable decks, hell even I was playing zoo (without punishing grove combo) in modern and am now dismantling the deck since no one shows up anymore to the modern events at my local gaming store. There are so many legacy turn ups that if you dont show up in time you don't get a place to sit. I got a way from legacy for a couple months to experience modern and it was a boring run. I guess I had to bore myself to death in this worthless format to realize how fun legacy is after returning to it. Hopefully when there aren't too many people left to play modern, wizards will wake up and unban some cards. I could understand some of the bans though many are not worth being on that list and I wont mention which ones since everyone has already pointed most of them out. Also, wizards R&D should play magic once in a while cuz I don't think they play much to be making such crappy decisions. Only thing that needed banning is dark depths, hypergen and cloud posts and maybe the red rituals. Anyways I just had to express my feelings since I will not be returning to this part of the forum anymore. Have fun turning creatures sideways guys. You might as well just start playing yugioh and pokemon:p
holy crap did you read my mind lol. Several of us feel that way so when this next PTQ season is mostly a bust we can hopefully get a better format for next season.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
This format is shaping up to be standard version II. Standard sucks crap and now modern does too. I'm going back to playing legacy and I hope most people will follow suit so that Wizards stops banning useless cards that can be dealt with.
Far too expensive, and there are no regular tournaments in my state. All of the card shops have tried to start them multiple times, but no one shows up because no one has the scratch. I could play online only, but I have a few strong and expensive Legacy cards in paper, and I really don't want to bother to sell them to get their MODO counterparts. I cannot afford to keep up with standard, and I loath drafting, so I am sort of stuck with Modern for better or worse, and my guess is my story is not unique.
I am terribly dissapointed with the prevailing attitude of the vocal Modern players, but there is naught I can to about it.
Do you understand you can't just fix the punishing fire problem with sideboard? Game 1 you just can't. Game 2 and 3, what do you do if you draw the card but they don't draw their combo? Have a dead card in hand? What if it's the opposite?
Sideboard cards are to help against specific matchups, specially combo. P. fire is just an engine every deck can use that is specially good when the format is slower and more creature based.
The lack of power is why I sparingly play standard. Extended was the perfect middle point between legacys brokenness and standard boring-ness.(yeah new word lol)
The problem so far is that every body and their brother wants to play old standard and block redux that just aren't capable. I mean we have had like 15 ghost dad threads over the last several months. Decks like that just aren't going to work. The power level between lorwyn and scars was almost obnoxious for creatures.
Block specific strategies will not work in a big card pool. So when bobs ghost dad deck doesn't work he blames what ever deck he lost to as a problem deck in the format, or maybe he even points out a card.
I have played 85% extended up until the messed it up. It was a skill intensive format were combo, aggro, control, and midrange decks could all thrive. Sure it had a few problems here and there, but it rotated so those fixed themselves. Stuff like teps, legacy style dredge, and other powerful combos would be way too powerful for modern, These all rotates away from the card pool leaving 2 broken combo decks in the new format.(MRD-FORWARD like modern is)
Dark depths wasn't a mistake until a certain vampire broke it. It was too fast although it was easy to answer. It warped the format considerable though. Then you had hypergen which was the second best combo deck, but it had a really bad matchup against dark depths. It would have ruled the format had dark depths not existed. We had zoo(which was not remotely dominant even though it had a pretty good game against DD)
We also had
Boros
RDW/BURN
UW gifts
UW tron
UW tezz
Scapeshift
Faeries/NLU(bitterblossom was too weak to run in the format)
Doran aggro
Rock
death cloud rock
Affinity
Elves
DD(should have been banned)
hypergen(should have been banned)
All of these decks were tier 1/1.5
Then other rogue decks existed in large numbers. Everything from chapins grixis-ultimatum, to 5 color hate, GW hateraid, TaN, KCI, Pyromancers ascension, ect.
I had made 3 different control brews that were pretty good. I only got to go to one PTQ where I played affinity(for budget reasons) and went x/3 after some bad beats to 2 different junk decks, and a NLU deck.
(I beat idiot-life, DD, Hypergen, NLU, zoo, and a boros deck)
Can anyone tell me a format like that sounds bad? This is mostly what we would have if wotc had not went so ban happy. We had 2 problem decks in that format(although 1 made the other unplayable)
Sounds like you realy want old extended back or some type of affordable Legacy. Sorry but thats not what Modern is going to be. Hell, if old extended was still around it wouldnt be the same.
Some sound as if they had this preconcieved idea of what the format was going to look like. When it didnt pan out that way some got mad.
Wotc has stated what their goals are with Modern. The parameters they are basing things by. If anyone is not happy with those guidelines they need to look to other formats for their game play.
Do you understand you can't just fix the punishing fire problem with sideboard? Game 1 you just can't. Game 2 and 3, what do you do if you draw the card but they don't draw their combo? Have a dead card in hand? What if it's the opposite?
Sideboard cards are to help against specific matchups, specially combo. P. fire is just an engine every deck can use that is specially good when the format is slower and more creature based.
I think the solution to this is using ghost quarter in most decks as waste land is used in legacy. If everyone started putting them in their main deck then we would have less people abusing multiple colors in decks. If legacy didn't have wasteland then the meta would be so different. I was using 4 colors in my modern zoo deck with no worries. It shouldn't be that way since it allows people to use the best of all colors. I have no issues with punishing fire gone though I still think it was not necessary. I know everyone was also complaining about nactl being over powered though do take into consideration that to effectively get nactl at 3/3 you are bolting yourself for 2 rounds so it has its drawback. Any deck packing enough direct damage will punish you for that. Cards like ancestral visions and jitte should never have been banned, especially in a aggro heavy meta. By the time visions kicks off, control is already down a lot of life against aggro that they need some sort of boost and if they dont get it in the opening hand then it is pretty much useless given that modern is so fast. Why get rid of jitte when stoneforge isn't even there to exploit it. I like turning creatures sideways though when everyone is doing it, then it takes the fun out of magic since there is no diversity. I would like to be able to play all types of decks in modern though unfortunately the current ban list doesnt allow it. I hate the fact that blue is so over powered in legacy so i have no problems with it being nerfed a bit in modern though not to the point that it doesnt even exist. At least unban one of the card filters (pre-ordain or ponder). Both being gone and not having counter spell makes control not being worth playing. I have no issues with banning cards that allow you to combo off turn one, two or three consistently though banning everything that comes to mind is ridiculous. I'm sure if wizards unbanned one of the card filters (ponder or pre-ordain) then it still wouldnt make combo too over powered. Combo needs to be there to keep aggro in check. Control needs to be there to keep combo in check. its not like we don't have enough discard so a couple good counter spells to go with that would bring back balance and keep combo in check. There is no equilibrium in modern currently and thats why we have to keep banning and it is making the format dull. I play legacy because of its diversity. Any one deck type doesnt always dominate. I know modern is not legacy though we should learn a few things about balance from other successful eternal formats because this format is far from balanced.
Wasteland is miles ahead of ghost quarter or whatever you can play in modern. If every deck in modern played wastelands, sure, punishing could still be around, but this is not the case.
It was an engine which separated wasn't dead cards.
My biggest issue is that WoTC keeps changing what they want the format to look like.
When the format first debuted, it was a lot like old extended, and I dug it. Then, they banned a bunch of cards, signaling they wanted a weaker, more standard like format (yawn). Then, in a Magic Show interview, Aaron Forsythe said that he knew players wanted to play with powerful cards, and Modern would be a powerful format. People seemed optomistic about unbanning a lot of the cards from the initial list. Then, they banned more cards, again pointing towards a more standard like enviornment. Then they banned again...
My biggest issue is that WoTC keeps changing what they want the format to look like.
When the format first debuted, it was a lot like old extended, and I dug it. Then, they banned a bunch of cards, signaling they wanted a weaker, more standard like format (yawn). Then, in a Magic Show interview, Aaron Forsythe said that he knew players wanted to play with powerful cards, and Modern would be a powerful format. People seemed optomistic about unbanning a lot of the cards from the initial list. Then, they banned more cards, again pointing towards a more standard like enviornment. Then they banned again...
I watched that interview with AF too. He stressed balance more then power. They have never steared away form what they originally said about the format. They want a balanced, diverse, turn 4 format. I am fine with giving up some power to insure balance. It seems you are not. To each there own.
2 threads. 1 for the positive discussion of the banlist.
And 1 for the negative discussion of the banlist.
This way, we can actually have discussions and actually get somewhere.
I want to discuss the banlist but honestly feel like I can't because of the same bitter argument rolling around again and again and again.
Please give us a place to discuss all the positives of the bannings.
I agree with this notion.
There needs to be separate threads for arguing and discussing. That is the difference. Some people just want to complain, while others just want to discuss.
I watched that interview with AF too. He stressed balance more then power. They have never steared away form what they originally said about the format. They want a balanced, diverse, turn 4 format. I am fine with giving up some power to insure balance. It seems you are not. To each there own.
punishing fire is not a turn 4 powerful cards
any card can gain much card advantage will be banned.
any card with U in the cost that isn't a creature more than likely.
@CorrodedTemplar
if we had a positive ban thread no one would post on it because wotc has yet to do any thing positive. Every ban makes the format less and less diverse. We might not have a jund deck now because punishing fire was super important to jund.
Tribal aggro is still worse than zoo so it will be at best tier 2, although losing punishing fire doesn't even really help it that much. Some people seem to thing that your opponent always has 3 punishing fire with 2 groves and a stomping ground in play when you start the game. Magic does not work like this. God forbid if someone playing an aggro deck has a bad match up or god forbid if someone has to learn how to use a sideboard. Every time something else gets banned this format gets closer and closer to standard. It is calling being a skilled player and playing in a skill intensive format. Your deck is going to have bad matchups and your going to have to figure out how to beat other decks with sideboard cards. Hell playing control decks I have pretty much had to main deck nothing but zoo hate just to stand up without AV, chrome mox, sword of the meek, MM, and Preordain. It suck having to main deck timely reinforcements against zoo since it is dead against the mirror or jank decks.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
any card with U in the cost that isn't a creature more than likely.
@CorrodedTemplar
if we had a positive ban thread no one would post on it because wotc has yet to do any thing positive. *insert typical slipknot tirade here*.
Excuse me, but I think that this is your opinion.
And I think that this represents the divide and the circular nature of this thread.
It really is complain vs discussion. I think it warrants separate threads.
If the mods make it, I will post in the discussion thread. So then, according to you, I will be posting there by myself. I bet money that that assertion is false, however.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The "give it time" excuse isn't going to cut it anymore. The whole attitude WoTC has towards banning cards in this format is annoying, and the fact that they keep changing their position on what they want Modern to be is also frustrating to all hell.
/rant
Like, if you conceived a child during the announcement, congrats on being a new parent...
everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not saying be quiet. I am just trying to make an appeal to the rational side.
Plus this is also just my opinion...so am I the one who should be quiet?
EDIT: See already everyone every where is playing nice.
This. I mean the format would settle if they would quit banning cards every 3 months. Just because a meta game is settled doesn't mean that its good. Look at standard with caw-blade. That meta was completely settled yet more people *****ed about it than about brainstorm in legacy.
It will take unbans and a new mantra of what this format is supposed to be for it to work. This turn 4 thing is what we have in standard and extended. Forcing a card pool to be something that its not just makes every card in the set worse. I understand weakening overly dominant decks, I do. However for a deck to be overly dominant it would have to been dominant more than 1 3 months cycle and more than one major tournament. Take 12post out of the philly meta and we have something good to start with. Then they could have banned something in December if it was dominant at philly and worlds.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
There is a big difference between legacy and modern though. We know what cards and interactions exist in modern for the most part. We only have 2 blocks and 1 set to comb through that is actually new to the format. Plus think of all of the mistakes made by R&D. Hell urza's block alone has like 200 powerful cards several of which are on the ban list.
Say we take the extended we have now and make it eternal. We have that mostly figured out at first.
Modern will only change with the ban list and new sets. The meta would have been set in the very beginning if the ban list was the old extended ban list. Then you could go through and start with the most broken combo cards(hypergen & dark depths) then let the format evolve from there for 6 months. After that point then you should reevaluate cards that need to be banned or decks that are too good.
Wotc did modern backwards. Instead of banning every powerful card let the meta present itself then start banning. If they would have followed this policy the meta would be stable, and we would have half as many cards on the ban list because evil cards from the past would be proven either good or bad for the format.(hint bitterblossom and JTMS would not hurt the format)
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of Philosophy. If they keep banning random cards every 3 months, the format will never settle, and cards will never be unbanned. WoTC's mentality has to change if Modern is ever going to be anything more than a joke
I do agree with you, mark the calander!!
What seems random to some, seems justifiable to others. I agree banning cards every 3 months from 1 half tourny, the format will never settle. There needs time for people to adjust. That being said, I feel some are looking for Legacy type power in Modern and others are looking for something inbetween Stadard and Legacy. Personally I dont care if the format is weaker then Standard as long as its balanced. The balance is the part I want more then power.
I would expect zoo to get another piece taken before all is said and done because the problem isn't so much a single efficient creature, rather than a horde of them. But because they've taken their time with it, focusing on limiting combo and control, it's going to cause another uproar from the masses that the bannings are never going to stop.
As it stands, the bannings have slowed down and are at a trickle (21ish to 6ish to 2). They may have been a little heavy handed crushing the problem cards of previous formats, but we'll probably see some of them removed the next go around and have another batch of cards to work with in the new set.
Who knows, maybe there's something completely broken in the new set in conjunction with cards on the ban list and that's why they've held back.
The lack of power is why I sparingly play standard. Extended was the perfect middle point between legacys brokenness and standard boring-ness.(yeah new word lol)
The problem so far is that every body and their brother wants to play old standard and block redux that just aren't capable. I mean we have had like 15 ghost dad threads over the last several months. Decks like that just aren't going to work. The power level between lorwyn and scars was almost obnoxious for creatures.
Block specific strategies will not work in a big card pool. So when bobs ghost dad deck doesn't work he blames what ever deck he lost to as a problem deck in the format, or maybe he even points out a card.
I have played 85% extended up until the messed it up. It was a skill intensive format were combo, aggro, control, and midrange decks could all thrive. Sure it had a few problems here and there, but it rotated so those fixed themselves. Stuff like teps, legacy style dredge, and other powerful combos would be way too powerful for modern, These all rotates away from the card pool leaving 2 broken combo decks in the new format.(MRD-FORWARD like modern is)
Dark depths wasn't a mistake until a certain vampire broke it. It was too fast although it was easy to answer. It warped the format considerable though. Then you had hypergen which was the second best combo deck, but it had a really bad matchup against dark depths. It would have ruled the format had dark depths not existed. We had zoo(which was not remotely dominant even though it had a pretty good game against DD)
We also had
Boros
RDW/BURN
UW gifts
UW tron
UW tezz
Scapeshift
Faeries/NLU(bitterblossom was too weak to run in the format)
Doran aggro
Rock
death cloud rock
Affinity
Elves
DD(should have been banned)
hypergen(should have been banned)
All of these decks were tier 1/1.5
Then other rogue decks existed in large numbers. Everything from chapins grixis-ultimatum, to 5 color hate, GW hateraid, TaN, KCI, Pyromancers ascension, ect.
I had made 3 different control brews that were pretty good. I only got to go to one PTQ where I played affinity(for budget reasons) and went x/3 after some bad beats to 2 different junk decks, and a NLU deck.
(I beat idiot-life, DD, Hypergen, NLU, zoo, and a boros deck)
Can anyone tell me a format like that sounds bad? This is mostly what we would have if wotc had not went so ban happy. We had 2 problem decks in that format(although 1 made the other unplayable)
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
holy crap did you read my mind lol. Several of us feel that way so when this next PTQ season is mostly a bust we can hopefully get a better format for next season.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
I am terribly dissapointed with the prevailing attitude of the vocal Modern players, but there is naught I can to about it.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Sideboard cards are to help against specific matchups, specially combo. P. fire is just an engine every deck can use that is specially good when the format is slower and more creature based.
Sounds like you realy want old extended back or some type of affordable Legacy. Sorry but thats not what Modern is going to be. Hell, if old extended was still around it wouldnt be the same.
Some sound as if they had this preconcieved idea of what the format was going to look like. When it didnt pan out that way some got mad.
Wotc has stated what their goals are with Modern. The parameters they are basing things by. If anyone is not happy with those guidelines they need to look to other formats for their game play.
I think the solution to this is using ghost quarter in most decks as waste land is used in legacy. If everyone started putting them in their main deck then we would have less people abusing multiple colors in decks. If legacy didn't have wasteland then the meta would be so different. I was using 4 colors in my modern zoo deck with no worries. It shouldn't be that way since it allows people to use the best of all colors. I have no issues with punishing fire gone though I still think it was not necessary. I know everyone was also complaining about nactl being over powered though do take into consideration that to effectively get nactl at 3/3 you are bolting yourself for 2 rounds so it has its drawback. Any deck packing enough direct damage will punish you for that. Cards like ancestral visions and jitte should never have been banned, especially in a aggro heavy meta. By the time visions kicks off, control is already down a lot of life against aggro that they need some sort of boost and if they dont get it in the opening hand then it is pretty much useless given that modern is so fast. Why get rid of jitte when stoneforge isn't even there to exploit it. I like turning creatures sideways though when everyone is doing it, then it takes the fun out of magic since there is no diversity. I would like to be able to play all types of decks in modern though unfortunately the current ban list doesnt allow it. I hate the fact that blue is so over powered in legacy so i have no problems with it being nerfed a bit in modern though not to the point that it doesnt even exist. At least unban one of the card filters (pre-ordain or ponder). Both being gone and not having counter spell makes control not being worth playing. I have no issues with banning cards that allow you to combo off turn one, two or three consistently though banning everything that comes to mind is ridiculous. I'm sure if wizards unbanned one of the card filters (ponder or pre-ordain) then it still wouldnt make combo too over powered. Combo needs to be there to keep aggro in check. Control needs to be there to keep combo in check. its not like we don't have enough discard so a couple good counter spells to go with that would bring back balance and keep combo in check. There is no equilibrium in modern currently and thats why we have to keep banning and it is making the format dull. I play legacy because of its diversity. Any one deck type doesnt always dominate. I know modern is not legacy though we should learn a few things about balance from other successful eternal formats because this format is far from balanced.
It was an engine which separated wasn't dead cards.
When the format first debuted, it was a lot like old extended, and I dug it. Then, they banned a bunch of cards, signaling they wanted a weaker, more standard like format (yawn). Then, in a Magic Show interview, Aaron Forsythe said that he knew players wanted to play with powerful cards, and Modern would be a powerful format. People seemed optomistic about unbanning a lot of the cards from the initial list. Then, they banned more cards, again pointing towards a more standard like enviornment. Then they banned again...
I watched that interview with AF too. He stressed balance more then power. They have never steared away form what they originally said about the format. They want a balanced, diverse, turn 4 format. I am fine with giving up some power to insure balance. It seems you are not. To each there own.
I agree with this notion.
There needs to be separate threads for arguing and discussing. That is the difference. Some people just want to complain, while others just want to discuss.
punishing fire is not a turn 4 powerful cards
any card can gain much card advantage will be banned.
what is next ?
Bloodbraid Elf and Gifts Ungiven most likely.
any card with U in the cost that isn't a creature more than likely.
@CorrodedTemplar
if we had a positive ban thread no one would post on it because wotc has yet to do any thing positive. Every ban makes the format less and less diverse. We might not have a jund deck now because punishing fire was super important to jund.
Tribal aggro is still worse than zoo so it will be at best tier 2, although losing punishing fire doesn't even really help it that much. Some people seem to thing that your opponent always has 3 punishing fire with 2 groves and a stomping ground in play when you start the game. Magic does not work like this. God forbid if someone playing an aggro deck has a bad match up or god forbid if someone has to learn how to use a sideboard. Every time something else gets banned this format gets closer and closer to standard. It is calling being a skilled player and playing in a skill intensive format. Your deck is going to have bad matchups and your going to have to figure out how to beat other decks with sideboard cards. Hell playing control decks I have pretty much had to main deck nothing but zoo hate just to stand up without AV, chrome mox, sword of the meek, MM, and Preordain. It suck having to main deck timely reinforcements against zoo since it is dead against the mirror or jank decks.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
What I'm not happy about is one staple card costing 100$.
Excuse me, but I think that this is your opinion.
And I think that this represents the divide and the circular nature of this thread.
It really is complain vs discussion. I think it warrants separate threads.
If the mods make it, I will post in the discussion thread. So then, according to you, I will be posting there by myself. I bet money that that assertion is false, however.