That out look is terrible and modern isn't the diverse format you think it is. The best decks are clearly defined and have a large advantage over the field. MTGO daily results don't mean crap in competitive magic, especially when they are no larger than your average FNM. I don't know where you guys are getting these opinions from and I would be happy to rebuke my statement if I am wrong but I do not see some clear, magical christmas land of a format like a lot of you are making it out to be. The best decks and best cards are as obvious now as they were when Modern was first released (Say for Delver and Tiago who came later.) Btw I am by no means saying modern isn't a "good" format based on these top decks.
If Dailys do not mean anything, how can you say you know what the best decks are? We are in a between PT period, so what exactly are you using to determine the top decks if not MTGO? Just your FLGS? I thought Bocephus was the one who's shop determined the metagame, so perhaps you have a live feed.
If Dailys do not mean anything, how can you say you know what the best decks are? We are in a between PT period, so what exactly are you using to determine the top decks if not MTGO? Just your FLGS? I thought Bocephus was the one who's shop determined the metagame, so perhaps you have a live feed.
Wow, really? Just because you jealous the shop I play at was tapped to do some ban free testing, no need for the jabs.
That out look is terrible and modern isn't the diverse format you think it is. The best decks are clearly defined and have a large advantage over the field. MTGO daily results don't mean crap in competitive magic, especially when they are no larger than your average FNM. I don't know where you guys are getting these opinions from and I would be happy to rebuke my statement if I am wrong but I do not see some clear, magical christmas land of a format like a lot of you are making it out to be. The best decks and best cards are as obvious now as they were when Modern was first released (Say for Delver and Tiago who came later.) Btw I am by no means saying modern isn't a "good" format based on these top decks.
PT Barcelona was Affinity, Twin, Jund and Tron. I watched every match of the top 8 and Twin won. A deck that has been clearly great for almost a year now and doesn't look like it's going to get any less better as time goes on. Same with Affinity and the same with Jund.
I am pretty sure out of the field there were more decks played then just those 4. They may have been the ones to navigate to the top 8, but getting to the top 8 in any format is a bit of luck, a bit of pairings luck, and piloting the deck well and getting good draws. Look at the winning decks or top 8 decks from the last few big tournies and I think you will find some diversity. Just because those 4 were the flavor of the week, means nothing about the diversity of the format. There are more then 4 decks viable and competitive in the format.
Wow, really? Just because you jealous the shop I play at was tapped to do some ban free testing, no need for the jabs.
No, it is more like some of your old comments that claimed very different results than those that the general metagame was having, and you felt they were more accurate due to some claim of your meta breeding many pros. I thought it was kinda arrogant at the time, but past is past, and now I am just poking fun.
What is the consensus on JTMS? He would most certainly make control more powerful, but I don't think he would kill the format in any way. Maybe even make it more diverse, as control isn't much of a player at this point.
People seemed to say he can't be unbanned now that miracle is around, but miracle seems to be not-as-powerful as people once thought.
I was playing modern when he was legal, and it didn't feel wrong at all.
What is the consensus on JTMS? He would most certainly make control more powerful, but I don't think he would kill the format in any way. Maybe even make it more diverse, as control isn't much of a player at this point.
People seemed to say he can't be unbanned now that miracle is around, but miracle seems to be not-as-powerful as people once thought.
I was playing modern when he was legal, and it didn't feel wrong at all.
It's about half people who are willing to give it a shot, and half people who are still butthurt form Jace ranching them in type 2.
Whoever said unbanning misstep is a good direction for modern needs to sell their collection on Kijiji right now. You honestly have no right playing this game. Combo and control could not be disrupted if this card existed in the format whatsoever. Who cares about Kird Ape or Lightning Bolt. You will die turn 2-4 with protection when they tap out with no consequences.
Whoever said unbanning misstep is a good direction for modern needs to sell their collection on Kijiji right now. You honestly have no right playing this game. Combo and control could not be disrupted if this card existed in the format whatsoever. Who cares about Kird Ape or Lightning Bolt. You will die turn 2-4 with protection when they tap out with no consequences.
I'd say the Kird Ape/Goblin Guide/Vexing Devil/Spell Pierce/Dispel are pretty important and good cards to counter for control decks in this meta. Combo has no problem protecting it's combo vs. Counters with Dispel and Spell Pierce; adding MM wouldn't push it in one way or another; it would be 'who has the most counters in hand?' which is already is; and it would give Control a chance to you know, breathe against fast Aggro.
You quite literally have no idea what you're talking about; I'm sure you've done very little testing with Mental Misstep in a Modern meta; and if you had, i'd like to see hard evidence.
There's no way to tell one way or another until it's tested for a significant amount of time to see how the Meta forms around it. Not only that, but the fact that your preambled your argument with 'People who disagree shouldn't play this game' isn't going to convince anyone of changing their opinion, nor is it going to convince anyone that you're even remotely correct. Especially considering the fact that you backed up your claim with some pretty loose theory-crafting.
Being honest? Don't make me laugh. He's being rude.
Protip: You can assert your opinion without putting others down.
Protip: Someone who doesn't share your opinion is not automatically "whining" or "complaining"
His opinion was that the people who don't want Jace have that opinion because they were 'ranched by him in Type 2' and still upset about it. I don't think he called them 'Complainers or Whiners' he called them 'butthurt' due to the ranching that was done to them.
it seems to me that you were being overly sensitive if you were being serious with your post; give that it's the internet i was assuming you were poking fun at the blunt way he put it.
Are you seriously that ****ing stupid?
Now who's being rude and putting others down, man? That's rather mean, don't you think?
I would think that my quoting of a Batman movie would show you that I was just trying to join in the fun-poking that I thought you were doing, my bad, man. There's really no reason to be so snippy.
He made the assertion that the people who were against the unbanning of Jace were butthurt. There's no way to justify that.
This has nothing to with sensitivity or even the goddamn internet. It's about giving a little respect to your fellow Magic player and it's about not acting like a ****ing ********.
Why can't a single one of you debate a topic with a bit of ****ing civility? Why?
WHYWHYWHY
Give me ONE GOOD REASON why acting like ****ING CHILDREN is conducive to the thread topic.
He made the assertion that the people who were against the unbanning of Jace were butthurt. There's no way to justify that.
This has nothing to with sensitivity or even the goddamn internet. It's about giving a little respect to your fellow Magic player and it's about not acting like a ****ing ********.
Why can't a single one of you debate a topic with a bit of ****ing civility? Why?
WHYWHYWHY
Give me ONE GOOD REASON why acting like ****ING CHILDREN is conducive to the thread topic.
So people not wanting Jace in the format because of what he did to Standard (which was horrible, mind you) is not a sound argument? Even if he did voice it with a very crass choice of words? Because for one, they can't possibly know for a fact that he's bad for the format given that he's never existed in it; and i doubt they made a Jace deck and smashed all the T1 decks with impunity.
You say acting like children isn't conducive to the thread topic, so why then do you do it? Like, as an honest question, Why?
There is nothing wrong with either side of the argument. It's the way the arguments are framed.
With immaturity and presumptuousness directed at the other users.
I suppose I just assumed that he was talking about the Modern Magic Community as a whole, not people who were discussing it in this thread. I see if you made the latter assumption how that could be considered 'rude and childish'. [I'm not asserting that he made it one way or another, btw.]
..Damnit, we were doing so well with the discussion..
I don't think control needs Jace, I'd rather give control Pre-ordain back. Jace just has too many abilities that don't make a big enough effect on the amount of counters on him. Brainstorming is FREE, bouncing is -1 and fate sealing is +2. There is pretty much no draw back or risk or anything else to consider when dropping a Jace. Maybe when we have more than o-ring to deal with a resolved planeswalker Jace would come off, but for now, I don't think he's coming off.
I shudder to think of a control deck running Jace with Elspeth and Lingering Souls with snapcasters and counter/removal back up...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They call me Hank Hill because I bring the pro-pain.
Preordain isn't banned b/c of control- it's because of Combo.
And the "butthurt" comment is indeed a legitimate point, crassly phrased. Many casual players hate JtMS with a passion due to him creating an insanely expensive barrier to entry in Standard (and well, him fatesealing them away game after game.)
There is pretty much no draw back or risk or anything else to consider when dropping a Jace. Maybe when we have more than o-ring to deal with a resolved planeswalker Jace would come off, but for now, I don't think he's coming off.
Well the fact that tapping out turn 4 you can just die to combo or agro. Pulse, Bolt, Geist, Leak, Spell Pierce, Duress, Thought Sieze, Vendilion, Bbe, Karn, Eldrazi, Seismic Assalt etc. etc. are all good against him. Just look at his impact when he first came out. Modern is even more hostile to him than that. IF any thing he gives control a chance to actually be a deck. It was being surrounded by SfM and Preordain with no direct anser to a resolved Jace that broke him in standard, even then I would still side him out Vs boros.
..Damnit, we were doing so well with the discussion..
I don't think control needs Jace, I'd rather give control Pre-ordain back. Jace just has too many abilities that don't make a big enough effect on the amount of counters on him. Brainstorming is FREE, bouncing is -1 and fate sealing is +2. There is pretty much no draw back or risk or anything else to consider when dropping a Jace. Maybe when we have more than o-ring to deal with a resolved planeswalker Jace would come off, but for now, I don't think he's coming off.
I shudder to think of a control deck running Jace with Elspeth and Lingering Souls with snapcasters and counter/removal back up...
Well, one of the reasons Jace didn't dominate standard right away was due to Bloodbraid Elf and stuff like Oblivion Ring; BBE because it's a creature that Jace can't protect himself from, not to mention that she's hasty and comes down right on time to make Jace a sneeze away from biting the dust. And O'Ring and Pulse kept just about everything in check at that point in time as well. (Being able to run both Pulse and BBE was one of the reasons Jund was top tier at the time, imo); So the real question here is "Are BBE, O'Ring, Pulse, and the fact that there exists spells as efficient as Jace in the format enough to keep Jace from being a dominating force?" And I'm not entirely sure how to answer one way or another. Both sides of the argument bring fairly good points to the table.
It's hard to tell one way or another because Jace isn't legal. I think my complete irrational/emotional born opinion is to just unban him, simply because I do enjoy playing with him, not because he's incredibly powerful, but because cards that give me card selection (for myself and my opponent) are things that i really enjoy playing with; and the removal of both Ponder and Preordain from the format kind of uh, hose me on that type of card.
And the "butthurt" comment is indeed a legitimate poi-
No. Accusing people who do not like the card as being "butthurt" and using that as a method to belittle their position is not now nor will ever be a legitimate argument.
People may not like him but this in no way means these people are butthurt and it does not mean that there are no legitimate arguments for keeping Jace banned.
You are seriously the last person I'd expect to support this ****ing immature behavoir. I'm extremely surprised at you.
It doesn't matter if you think jtms would be fine in this meta and wouldn't break anything, because supposing he'd be fine (big supposition btw), that'd mean he'd be fine because blue control in general sucks, but would need to get banned in the future anyways once blue control caught up in power level.
It doesn't matter if you think jtms would be fine in this meta and wouldn't break anything, because supposing he'd be fine (big supposition btw), that'd mean he'd be fine because blue control in general sucks, but would need to get banned in the future anyways once blue control caught up in power level.
explain.
Are you saying that "Once Jace gets friends to play with he'll need to be banned because Blue will be too good", or are you saying 'Once blue based control becomes an actual portion of the T1 meta we'll need to get rid of him, again.' ?
Jtms is so overpowered that he could only be legal if blue control extremely sucked, but the moment blue control without jace didn't suck he'd have to be banned. It's not hard to understand.
There are already a few blue control strategies that are tier1.5.
Jtms is so overpowered that he could only be legal if blue control extremely sucked, but the moment blue control without jace didn't suck he'd have to be banned. It's not hard to understand.
There are already a few blue control strategies that are tier1.5.
This still makes 0 sense. Blue is weak, so let's unban Jace until a control deck wins a PTQ then ban it again?
Also, regading my comments:
I like to think of the MTGS communtity as being dense, much like a brick wall. And when you're trying to break through a brick wall, you don't use a feather, you use a sledgehammer.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Modern is mad diverse, bro.
Mad diverse.
Wow, really? Just because you jealous the shop I play at was tapped to do some ban free testing, no need for the jabs.
I am pretty sure out of the field there were more decks played then just those 4. They may have been the ones to navigate to the top 8, but getting to the top 8 in any format is a bit of luck, a bit of pairings luck, and piloting the deck well and getting good draws. Look at the winning decks or top 8 decks from the last few big tournies and I think you will find some diversity. Just because those 4 were the flavor of the week, means nothing about the diversity of the format. There are more then 4 decks viable and competitive in the format.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
People seemed to say he can't be unbanned now that miracle is around, but miracle seems to be not-as-powerful as people once thought.
I was playing modern when he was legal, and it didn't feel wrong at all.
It's about half people who are willing to give it a shot, and half people who are still butthurt form Jace ranching them in type 2.
Never without the utmost class.
I'd say the Kird Ape/Goblin Guide/Vexing Devil/Spell Pierce/Dispel are pretty important and good cards to counter for control decks in this meta. Combo has no problem protecting it's combo vs. Counters with Dispel and Spell Pierce; adding MM wouldn't push it in one way or another; it would be 'who has the most counters in hand?' which is already is; and it would give Control a chance to you know, breathe against fast Aggro.
You quite literally have no idea what you're talking about; I'm sure you've done very little testing with Mental Misstep in a Modern meta; and if you had, i'd like to see hard evidence.
There's no way to tell one way or another until it's tested for a significant amount of time to see how the Meta forms around it. Not only that, but the fact that your preambled your argument with 'People who disagree shouldn't play this game' isn't going to convince anyone of changing their opinion, nor is it going to convince anyone that you're even remotely correct. Especially considering the fact that you backed up your claim with some pretty loose theory-crafting.
being honest doesn't lend itself to much class
But that's the price he pays. He's the hero that MTGS needs, but not the one it deserves.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
Protip: You can assert your opinion without putting others down.
Protip: Someone who doesn't share your opinion is not automatically "whining" or "complaining"
Are you seriously that ****ing stupid?
His opinion was that the people who don't want Jace have that opinion because they were 'ranched by him in Type 2' and still upset about it. I don't think he called them 'Complainers or Whiners' he called them 'butthurt' due to the ranching that was done to them.
it seems to me that you were being overly sensitive if you were being serious with your post; give that it's the internet i was assuming you were poking fun at the blunt way he put it.
Now who's being rude and putting others down, man? That's rather mean, don't you think?
I would think that my quoting of a Batman movie would show you that I was just trying to join in the fun-poking that I thought you were doing, my bad, man. There's really no reason to be so snippy.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
This has nothing to with sensitivity or even the goddamn internet. It's about giving a little respect to your fellow Magic player and it's about not acting like a ****ing ********.
Why can't a single one of you debate a topic with a bit of ****ing civility? Why?
WHYWHYWHY
Give me ONE GOOD REASON why acting like ****ING CHILDREN is conducive to the thread topic.
So people not wanting Jace in the format because of what he did to Standard (which was horrible, mind you) is not a sound argument? Even if he did voice it with a very crass choice of words? Because for one, they can't possibly know for a fact that he's bad for the format given that he's never existed in it; and i doubt they made a Jace deck and smashed all the T1 decks with impunity.
You say acting like children isn't conducive to the thread topic, so why then do you do it? Like, as an honest question, Why?
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
With immaturity and presumptuousness directed at the other users.
I suppose I just assumed that he was talking about the Modern Magic Community as a whole, not people who were discussing it in this thread. I see if you made the latter assumption how that could be considered 'rude and childish'. [I'm not asserting that he made it one way or another, btw.]
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
I don't think control needs Jace, I'd rather give control Pre-ordain back. Jace just has too many abilities that don't make a big enough effect on the amount of counters on him. Brainstorming is FREE, bouncing is -1 and fate sealing is +2. There is pretty much no draw back or risk or anything else to consider when dropping a Jace. Maybe when we have more than o-ring to deal with a resolved planeswalker Jace would come off, but for now, I don't think he's coming off.
I shudder to think of a control deck running Jace with Elspeth and Lingering Souls with snapcasters and counter/removal back up...
And the "butthurt" comment is indeed a legitimate point, crassly phrased. Many casual players hate JtMS with a passion due to him creating an insanely expensive barrier to entry in Standard (and well, him fatesealing them away game after game.)
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Well the fact that tapping out turn 4 you can just die to combo or agro. Pulse, Bolt, Geist, Leak, Spell Pierce, Duress, Thought Sieze, Vendilion, Bbe, Karn, Eldrazi, Seismic Assalt etc. etc. are all good against him. Just look at his impact when he first came out. Modern is even more hostile to him than that. IF any thing he gives control a chance to actually be a deck. It was being surrounded by SfM and Preordain with no direct anser to a resolved Jace that broke him in standard, even then I would still side him out Vs boros.
Well, one of the reasons Jace didn't dominate standard right away was due to Bloodbraid Elf and stuff like Oblivion Ring; BBE because it's a creature that Jace can't protect himself from, not to mention that she's hasty and comes down right on time to make Jace a sneeze away from biting the dust. And O'Ring and Pulse kept just about everything in check at that point in time as well. (Being able to run both Pulse and BBE was one of the reasons Jund was top tier at the time, imo); So the real question here is "Are BBE, O'Ring, Pulse, and the fact that there exists spells as efficient as Jace in the format enough to keep Jace from being a dominating force?" And I'm not entirely sure how to answer one way or another. Both sides of the argument bring fairly good points to the table.
It's hard to tell one way or another because Jace isn't legal. I think my complete irrational/emotional born opinion is to just unban him, simply because I do enjoy playing with him, not because he's incredibly powerful, but because cards that give me card selection (for myself and my opponent) are things that i really enjoy playing with; and the removal of both Ponder and Preordain from the format kind of uh, hose me on that type of card.
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
No. Accusing people who do not like the card as being "butthurt" and using that as a method to belittle their position is not now nor will ever be a legitimate argument.
People may not like him but this in no way means these people are butthurt and it does not mean that there are no legitimate arguments for keeping Jace banned.
You are seriously the last person I'd expect to support this ****ing immature behavoir. I'm extremely surprised at you.
explain.
Are you saying that "Once Jace gets friends to play with he'll need to be banned because Blue will be too good", or are you saying 'Once blue based control becomes an actual portion of the T1 meta we'll need to get rid of him, again.' ?
Sig courtesy of DOLZero
There are already a few blue control strategies that are tier1.5.
This still makes 0 sense. Blue is weak, so let's unban Jace until a control deck wins a PTQ then ban it again?
Also, regading my comments:
I like to think of the MTGS communtity as being dense, much like a brick wall. And when you're trying to break through a brick wall, you don't use a feather, you use a sledgehammer.