Please tell me how you win when they have 1 million life + and ways to make more if you try and disrupt the pieces? Mill? Most of the thoptor decks I went up against a year ago run ways to shuffle the GY back into the library for just such a plan. Its alot like twin but more resilient and can be set up a turn earlier. The turn earlier I believe is the big no-no. Its also a game plan that fits into just about any deck. Makes it a scary combo that can pop out of almost any deck.
As for what happens the next announcement, I believe no changes will happen. At least no ban cards coming off.
Um, do you know how the combo works? Pay X, gain X life and get X 1/1flyers, one of which has the sword on it. If your opponent has a board prescense, or god forbid, GASP any cards in hand, it's not unreasonable for then to push right through. DOn't know where you got the "1 million" bit from, aside from an irrational response to an underdeveloped oppinion. Twin kills you dead on turn 4. Thopter Combo can get you a 1 dude on turn 3, and 4 dudes on turn 4. Not really the crazy monster everyone here is *****ing that it is. In fact, thats why it was put into a control deck, and not a full out combo deck: you need to have reasonable control of the game for the combo to be enough to win.
Um, do you know how the combo works? Pay X, gain X life and get X 1/1flyers, one of which has the sword on it. If your opponent has a board prescense, or god forbid, GASP any cards in hand, it's not unreasonable for then to push right through. DOn't know where you got the "1 million" bit from, aside from an irrational response to an underdeveloped oppinion. Twin kills you dead on turn 4. Thopter Combo can get you a 1 dude on turn 3, and 4 dudes on turn 4. Not really the crazy monster everyone here is *****ing that it is. In fact, thats why it was put into a control deck, and not a full out combo deck: you need to have reasonable control of the game for the combo to be enough to win.
QFT. God forbid a deck appears that slows the format down and has a reasonable win condition at the same time. It's not like Krosan Grip and Surgical Extraction aren't cards.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Surgical Extraction is really easy to play around in the Thopter deck and K. Grip isn't that hard. The problem with the thopter combo is that it gives control decks infinite inevitability for almost no cost. It can take up as little as 3-5 slots in a control deck and its pretty hard to beat. The best cards against it are Leyline of the Void and Extirpate and those cards are so narrow right now since there isn't a heavy graveyard deck like Dredge around. The thopter combo is resilient, takes up very few slots, and fits into every control deck ever for almost no cost. Not to mention is insanely easy to tutor for since its easy to recur with Academy Ruins so you can use Tezz, Muddle the Mixture, and Gifts Ungiven to go get it. If you think its coming off any time soon, you're crazy, and if your point is that control needs a leg up, they shouldn't unban broken combo cards rather something like AV, or Jace.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Surgical Extraction is really easy to play around in the Thopter deck and K. Grip isn't that hard. The problem with the thopter combo is that it gives control decks infinite inevitability for almost no cost. It can take up as little as 3-5 slots in a control deck and its pretty hard to beat. The best cards against it are Leyline of the Void and Extirpate and those cards are so narrow right now since there isn't a heavy graveyard deck like Dredge around. The thopter combo is resilient, takes up very few slots, and fits into every control deck ever for almost no cost. Not to mention is insanely easy to tutor for since its easy to recur with Academy Ruins so you can use Tezz, Muddle the Mixture, and Gifts Ungiven to go get it. If you think its coming off any time soon, you're crazy, and if your point is that control needs a leg up, they shouldn't unban broken combo cards rather something like AV, or Jace.
Tezz is a five mana tutor, Muddle the Mixture is just too situational, Gifts requires you to build around.
The cost is that you have to put into two cards that are useless by themselves, risk drawing them by themselves (sometimes in multiples, you have to use multiple due to the lack of good tutors), and therefore short a few cards that could have been answers (something a control deck really wants).
There are plenty of decks that use the graveyard.
Infinite inevitability? If that's a problem then your are gonna hate Tron.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
Surgical Extraction is really easy to play around in the Thopter deck and K. Grip isn't that hard. The problem with the thopter combo is that it gives control decks infinite inevitability for almost no cost. It can take up as little as 3-5 slots in a control deck and its pretty hard to beat. The best cards against it are Leyline of the Void and Extirpate and those cards are so narrow right now since there isn't a heavy graveyard deck like Dredge around. The thopter combo is resilient, takes up very few slots, and fits into every control deck ever for almost no cost. Not to mention is insanely easy to tutor for since its easy to recur with Academy Ruins so you can use Tezz, Muddle the Mixture, and Gifts Ungiven to go get it. If you think its coming off any time soon, you're crazy, and if your point is that control needs a leg up, they shouldn't unban broken combo cards rather something like AV, or Jace.
Please explain to me how a split second destroy target artifact is not hard to play around?
Why would I use Tezzeret in anything but a heavy artifact style control deck (Also known as a deck that SUCKS.) ? IE: Something I wouldn't want ThopterSword for.
Muddle is a relevant point. I don't have anything to say against that. I forgot that cards existence. Even still I'm not sure it would give the combination enough consistency, and even if it did I still don't see this combo being a problem in Modern.
If we can't even get a reasonable argument about Thopter Sword, a combo which most new players to modern don't even understand, how the hell would we argue getting Jace off without making the argument look completely biased and unfounded? < = That is how it will look to people who played Zen-Scar standard. "OMFG JACE IS LEGAL **** MODERN OMG WTF OMG TARMOGOYF DOESNT PASS THE JACE TEST BRAINSTORM WITH TEMPORAL MASTERYZ HE CAN FATESEAL YOU DUDE OMG"
Experience with Jace in highly aggressive formats makes me 100% positive he wouldn't hurt modern. He, like MANY of the other cards on the list, are on there for safeguards.
This format should never have a ban list like Legacy. It's off to a good as start now and it's only going to get bigger as power creep continues to raise higher and higher with each set.
Also, if they ban Delver of Secrets like some seem to think is going to happen "OMFG HES A FLYING WILD NACATAL GUYZ" this format is officially awful.
:|
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Please explain to me how a split second destroy target artifact is not hard to play around?
Why would I use Tezzeret in anything but a heavy artifact style control deck (Also known as a deck that SUCKS.) ? IE: Something I wouldn't want ThopterSword for.
Muddle is a relevant point. I don't have anything to say against that. I forgot that cards existence. Even still I'm not sure it would give the combination enough consistency, and even if it did I still don't see this combo being a problem in Modern.
If we can't even get a reasonable argument about Thopter Sword, a combo which most new players to modern don't even understand, how the hell would we argue getting Jace off without making the argument look completely biased and unfounded? < = That is how it will look to people who played Zen-Scar standard. "OMFG JACE IS LEGAL **** MODERN OMG WTF OMG TARMOGOYF DOESNT PASS THE JACE TEST BRAINSTORM WITH TEMPORAL MASTERYZ HE CAN FATESEAL YOU DUDE OMG"
Experience with Jace in highly aggressive formats makes me 100% positive he wouldn't hurt modern. He, like MANY of the other cards on the list, are on there for safeguards.
This format should never have a ban list like Legacy. It's off to a good as start now and it's only going to get bigger as power creep continues to raise higher and higher with each set.
Also, if they ban Delver of Secrets like some seem to think is going to happen "OMFG HES A FLYING WILD NACATAL GUYZ" this format is officially awful.
:|
Anyone who didn't play during Zen-Ala standard needs to shut up about Jace. He was fine then, and thier (the people who only Jace after alara) don't have the proper knowledge of what he was like. They are biased by their late entry into standard.
Do you agree or disagree with the ban of Wild Nacatl?
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
it was the breakout deck from Worlds 2009 with mutliple 6-0's and 5-1's and it plays Tezz, Gifts and Muddle the Mixture. The only things it has lost are Chrome Mox and two artifact lands which hurts but wouldn't kill the deck. This deck was pretty much the top deck in a field that's WAY more powerful than Modern with multiple decks that can kill turn 2-3 which isn't the case in Modern. I don't see how it wouldn't be "the deck" again if Thopter Sword were to be unbanned. And you can play around K. Grip by either sandbagging extra combo pieces or through recursion, the deck is extremely resilient and unlike the Legacy version you have enough time to do things like Gifts and Tezz.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
it was the breakout deck from Worlds 2009 with mutliple 6-0's and 5-1's and it plays Tezz, Gifts and Muddle the Mixture. The only things it has lost are Chrome Mox and two artifact lands which hurts but wouldn't kill the deck. This deck was pretty much the top deck in a field that's WAY more powerful than Modern with multiple decks that can kill turn 2-3 which isn't the case in Modern. I don't see how it wouldn't be "the deck" again if Thopter Sword were to be unbanned. And you can play around K. Grip by either sandbagging extra combo pieces or through recursion, the deck is extremely resilient and unlike the Legacy version you have enough time to do things like Gifts and Tezz.
Yeah, that is a damn good deck. You should also keep in mind that three years worth of blocks has passed since 2009 giving way to all the more aggressive and powerful strategies. How would this deck fair against current Jund? My guess is it auto scoops game one. Modern is a lot faster than you're giving it credit for.
After seeing that list my opinion was just swayed from heavily for ThopterSword to only for ThopterSword because I know how many archetypes that just out right crushes. Would it be oppressive, though? Would it be winning every single PTQ? I don't think so. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a card. It would be a top 8 contender for sure, though.
@ Unkyunk: I agree with the ban on Wild Nacatal only because it was virtually always a 3/3 on turn 2. Delver at least has a probability lower than "Do I have Stomping Ground/Temple Garden and a Fetch Land in my hand to make ms. kitty a 3/3?" Delver doesn't flip until turn 3 for me often.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
The story of Jace in standard: When Jace came out pros didn't even like him to much, they literally could not get a Jace deck to work well even with the likes of LSV, Nasif, and Chapin trying there derndest, true story. Jund had like half its deck being good against him, Mono Red (the deck that beat Jund) was super strong. Then Wall of Omens and Gideon got printed and Jace finally had some stuff to protect him and actually saw play (along with hi power Elspeth and Ajani). Primeval Titan (easily just as broken) and Fauna/Vengevine came along and knocked that whole plan down a notch.
Then the rotation... SOM was one of the jankiest sets in years with just Infect and metalcrap to pick up the slack of all the sic Alara cards, it was saaad times. With not even an Oring around I remember how sweet it was to just tap out for a planes walker and laugh because now there was nothing any one could do about it. People had to play 2 mana 1/1 flyers just to try and hit him. The swords came and SfM went from marginally good to ridiculous. Two of the most powerful cards printed in years were married and danced with glee under the bountiful Preordains (best cantrip since Brainstorm).
I thought it simply imposible they would ban something in standard, after all I had begged apon the deff ears of Wotc to plz ban bitterblosom or BbE. But the tears of poor Timmy, un able to ever afford a single Jace, had flooded all logic and he got the boot near to rotation, screwing the market even though it was a white two drop and broken equipment that were the problem.
He was at his peak in Legacy because of mistep slowing things down a turn. Now he is just a good card in like 2 decks. Modern is fast and powerful not SOM standard, There is no way he isn't worth trying. If anything the retarded Miracle mechanic seals his doom sadly.
The story of Jace in standard: When Jace came out pros didn't even like him to much, they literally could not get a Jace deck to work well even with the likes of LSV, Nasif, and Chapin trying there derndest, true story. Jund had like half its deck being good against him, Mono Red (the deck that beat Jund) was super strong. Then Wall of Omens and Gideon got printed and Jace finally had some stuff to protect him and actually saw play (along with hi power Elspeth and Ajani). Primeval Titan (easily just as broken) and Fauna/Vengevine came along and knocked that whole plan down.
Then the rotation... SOM was one of the jankiest sets in years with just Infect and metalcrap to pick up the slack of all the sic Alara cards, it was saaad times. With not even an Oring around I remember how sweet it was to just tap out for a planes walker and laugh because now there was nothing any one could do about it. People had to play 2 mana 1/1 flyers just to try and hit him. The swords came and SfM went from marginally good to ridiculous. Two of the most powerful cards printed in years were married and danced with glee under the bountiful Preordains (best cantrip since Brainstorm). I thought it simply imposible they would ban something in standard, after all I had begged apon the deff ears of Wotc to plz ban bitterblosom or BbE. But the tears of poor Timmy, un able to ever afford a single Jace, had flooded all logic and he got the boot near to rotation, screwing the market even though it was a white two drop and broken equipment that were the problem.
There is so many things wrong with that post that I honestly don't even care to comment on all of it. You managed to get the "story" of jace partially correct, though. But thats not how everyone remembers him. A weakling in a format with powerful and efficient creatures and actual ways to deal with planeswalkers.
Y'know, like modern.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
Jace was fine as long as the other cards in the format were at his power level. But after rotation, the overall power level dropped, and all of a sudden he was *the* best thing you could do in the format. (Preordain, Mana Leak, and Squadron Hawk, along with SFM also did not help matters because they made Jace-focused decks that much more consistent.)
Thopter/Sword boils down to: do you think "1:Gain a life, put a 1/1 flyer into play" is a remotely ok ability to have in the format?
Jace was fine as long as the other cards in the format were at his power level. But after rotation, the overall power level dropped, and all of a sudden he was *the* best thing you could do in the format. (Preordain, Mana Leak, and Squadron Hawk, along with SFM also did not help matters because they made Jace-focused decks that much more consistent.)
Thopter/Sword boils down to: do you think "1:Gain a life, put a 1/1 flyer into play" is a remotely ok ability to have in the format?
With how powerful aggro is in modern (It's more powerful than even in Legacy) The answer is : Yes.
Although I do acknowledge the combo is degenerate and broken. But so are a lot of interactions in modern.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
With jace, isn't it also worth mentioning that the deck that kept him out of standard for a year is in the top 3 most popular decks? Plus I doubt that he would like affinity or maybe even pod. In short I don't think that he'd be that powerful, but there are probably too many bad memories for him to come off any time in the near future, and I don't have any myself and I don't want to bum them off my girlfriend, so he can stay banned for all I care.
With jace, isn't it also worth mentioning that the deck that kept him out of standard for a year is in the top 3 most popular decks? Plus I doubt that he would like affinity or maybe even pod. In short I don't think that he'd be that powerful, but there are probably too many bad memories for him to come off any time in the near future, and I don't have any myself and I don't want to bum them off my girlfriend, so he can stay banned for all I care.
He was not out of Standard for a year. U/W kept up with Jund after WWK was legal, but had a much easier time functioning in online play, likely due to time constraints in real-life play. And by rotation, the acknowledged "best deck" in the format (Josh Utter-Leyton's 4-drop focused Mythic) featured him.
Hence why I feel we need a bigger ban list, not smaller. Degenerate and broken shouldnt be allowed in the format. Whether its a card or a combo.
It's really more about drawing the line at a certain point than trying to play whack a mole. In a format this large, you can't catch or correct everything.
It's really more about drawing the line at a certain point than trying to play whack a mole. In a format this large, you can't catch or correct everything.
I disagree, but many would say them (Wotc) doing that would take all their fun out of the format. The format is young and they should have played it much safer and grew. They really have now where to go now but try and keep it even. (of course there will be those who want all out broken magic, but I doubt they will ever go that far with this format).
He was not out of Standard for a year. U/W kept up with Jund after WWK was legal, but had a much easier time functioning in online play, likely due to time constraints in real-life play. And by rotation, the acknowledged "best deck" in the format (Josh Utter-Leyton's 4-drop focused Mythic) featured him.
I will admit that I forgot about Mythic, but would a deck that that even have a place in modern?
With the release of the Miracles, I doubt they will ever consider unbanning JTMS.
I personally don't see anything wrong with the current banlist, and wouldn't want anything removed. Though I would love to see Emrakul added, only because I feel printing him was one of the worst and most unhealthy things they could've done for the game.
Tron can kill you with an Eldrazi, or a reanimated Fatty way sooner than Thopters can kill you, and both are just as easy to jam into a deck. 3 Gifts, 1 Iona/elesh norn, 1 Unburial rites vs 3 Thopter Foundry, 2 Sword of the Meek.
Tron can kill you with an Eldrazi, or a reanimated Fatty way sooner than Thopters can kill you, and both are just as easy to jam into a deck. 3 Gifts, 1 Iona/elesh norn, 1 Unburial rites vs 3 Thopter Foundry, 2 Sword of the Meek.
People are just terrified of new things.
But the thing is you can get away with as little as 1x Sword and 2x Foundary and there are fewer outs to the Foundary than something like Elesh Norn or Iona. I know I'd take ThopterSword over Gifts Unburial Rights any day. Plus its pretty easy to cram both into one deck since you probably want to run gifts with both anyways.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Hence why I feel we need a bigger ban list, not smaller. Degenerate and broken shouldnt be allowed in the format. Whether its a card or a combo.
I could be wrong here but one of the major allures to eternal formats as opposed to standard is the obvious amount of powerful and broken interactions. If I wanted to play something with a low power level I would play limited.
That ban list scared off a lot of people who would have invested time and money into this game. I don't think it didn't any good attracting any. All it did was make super obvious to me what the most powerful decks were going to be, as opposed to having something like;
Faeries
Caw-Blade
Affinity
Storm
Twin
Tron
ThopterBalance
Zoo
Living End
Hypergenesis
Infect combo's
etc
etc
etc
Then to me all I saw (And proved to be mostly true)
Zoo
Affinity
Jund
Twin
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
To me it's no better than it was before. Time wil ltell as to what the next broken deck to bash Modern in the face will be but it's a good time all the doomsayer's have WotC on their side.
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
So thopterSwordGiftRites? I really don't think sword would affect much of anything if it came off, nor do I think that it would end up being that oppressive, but I'll shut up until I test to see just how bad it could be.
speaking of which, when is the next round of bannings/unbannings? i hope they realize how unhealthy cavern of souls is and ban it in legacy and modern. but that's me dreaming. haha.
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Um, do you know how the combo works? Pay X, gain X life and get X 1/1flyers, one of which has the sword on it. If your opponent has a board prescense, or god forbid, GASP any cards in hand, it's not unreasonable for then to push right through. DOn't know where you got the "1 million" bit from, aside from an irrational response to an underdeveloped oppinion. Twin kills you dead on turn 4. Thopter Combo can get you a 1 dude on turn 3, and 4 dudes on turn 4. Not really the crazy monster everyone here is *****ing that it is. In fact, thats why it was put into a control deck, and not a full out combo deck: you need to have reasonable control of the game for the combo to be enough to win.
QFT. God forbid a deck appears that slows the format down and has a reasonable win condition at the same time. It's not like Krosan Grip and Surgical Extraction aren't cards.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
The cost is that you have to put into two cards that are useless by themselves, risk drawing them by themselves (sometimes in multiples, you have to use multiple due to the lack of good tutors), and therefore short a few cards that could have been answers (something a control deck really wants).
There are plenty of decks that use the graveyard.
Infinite inevitability? If that's a problem then your are gonna hate Tron.
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Please explain to me how a split second destroy target artifact is not hard to play around?
Why would I use Tezzeret in anything but a heavy artifact style control deck (Also known as a deck that SUCKS.) ? IE: Something I wouldn't want ThopterSword for.
Muddle is a relevant point. I don't have anything to say against that. I forgot that cards existence. Even still I'm not sure it would give the combination enough consistency, and even if it did I still don't see this combo being a problem in Modern.
If we can't even get a reasonable argument about Thopter Sword, a combo which most new players to modern don't even understand, how the hell would we argue getting Jace off without making the argument look completely biased and unfounded? < = That is how it will look to people who played Zen-Scar standard. "OMFG JACE IS LEGAL **** MODERN OMG WTF OMG TARMOGOYF DOESNT PASS THE JACE TEST BRAINSTORM WITH TEMPORAL MASTERYZ HE CAN FATESEAL YOU DUDE OMG"
Experience with Jace in highly aggressive formats makes me 100% positive he wouldn't hurt modern. He, like MANY of the other cards on the list, are on there for safeguards.
This format should never have a ban list like Legacy. It's off to a good as start now and it's only going to get bigger as power creep continues to raise higher and higher with each set.
Also, if they ban Delver of Secrets like some seem to think is going to happen "OMFG HES A FLYING WILD NACATAL GUYZ" this format is officially awful.
:|
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Do you agree or disagree with the ban of Wild Nacatl?
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
2 Trinket Mage
1 Day of Judgment
1 Wrath of God
3 Cryptic Command
2 Gifts Ungiven
2 Mana Leak
1 Muddle the Mixture
3 Path to Exile
3 Spell Snare
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Chalice of the Void
3 Chrome Mox
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of the Meek
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Ancient Den
3 Arid Mesa
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Mystic Gate
1 Plains
1 Seat of the Synod
3 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Steam Vents
1 Tolaria West
it was the breakout deck from Worlds 2009 with mutliple 6-0's and 5-1's and it plays Tezz, Gifts and Muddle the Mixture. The only things it has lost are Chrome Mox and two artifact lands which hurts but wouldn't kill the deck. This deck was pretty much the top deck in a field that's WAY more powerful than Modern with multiple decks that can kill turn 2-3 which isn't the case in Modern. I don't see how it wouldn't be "the deck" again if Thopter Sword were to be unbanned. And you can play around K. Grip by either sandbagging extra combo pieces or through recursion, the deck is extremely resilient and unlike the Legacy version you have enough time to do things like Gifts and Tezz.
Yeah, that is a damn good deck. You should also keep in mind that three years worth of blocks has passed since 2009 giving way to all the more aggressive and powerful strategies. How would this deck fair against current Jund? My guess is it auto scoops game one. Modern is a lot faster than you're giving it credit for.
After seeing that list my opinion was just swayed from heavily for ThopterSword to only for ThopterSword because I know how many archetypes that just out right crushes. Would it be oppressive, though? Would it be winning every single PTQ? I don't think so. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a card. It would be a top 8 contender for sure, though.
@ Unkyunk: I agree with the ban on Wild Nacatal only because it was virtually always a 3/3 on turn 2. Delver at least has a probability lower than "Do I have Stomping Ground/Temple Garden and a Fetch Land in my hand to make ms. kitty a 3/3?" Delver doesn't flip until turn 3 for me often.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Then the rotation... SOM was one of the jankiest sets in years with just Infect and metalcrap to pick up the slack of all the sic Alara cards, it was saaad times. With not even an Oring around I remember how sweet it was to just tap out for a planes walker and laugh because now there was nothing any one could do about it. People had to play 2 mana 1/1 flyers just to try and hit him. The swords came and SfM went from marginally good to ridiculous. Two of the most powerful cards printed in years were married and danced with glee under the bountiful Preordains (best cantrip since Brainstorm).
I thought it simply imposible they would ban something in standard, after all I had begged apon the deff ears of Wotc to plz ban bitterblosom or BbE. But the tears of poor Timmy, un able to ever afford a single Jace, had flooded all logic and he got the boot near to rotation, screwing the market even though it was a white two drop and broken equipment that were the problem.
He was at his peak in Legacy because of mistep slowing things down a turn. Now he is just a good card in like 2 decks. Modern is fast and powerful not SOM standard, There is no way he isn't worth trying. If anything the retarded Miracle mechanic seals his doom sadly.
There is so many things wrong with that post that I honestly don't even care to comment on all of it. You managed to get the "story" of jace partially correct, though. But thats not how everyone remembers him. A weakling in a format with powerful and efficient creatures and actual ways to deal with planeswalkers.
Y'know, like modern.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Thopter/Sword boils down to: do you think "1:Gain a life, put a 1/1 flyer into play" is a remotely ok ability to have in the format?
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
With how powerful aggro is in modern (It's more powerful than even in Legacy) The answer is : Yes.
Although I do acknowledge the combo is degenerate and broken. But so are a lot of interactions in modern.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB
He was not out of Standard for a year. U/W kept up with Jund after WWK was legal, but had a much easier time functioning in online play, likely due to time constraints in real-life play. And by rotation, the acknowledged "best deck" in the format (Josh Utter-Leyton's 4-drop focused Mythic) featured him.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Hence why I feel we need a bigger ban list, not smaller. Degenerate and broken shouldnt be allowed in the format. Whether its a card or a combo.
It's really more about drawing the line at a certain point than trying to play whack a mole. In a format this large, you can't catch or correct everything.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
I disagree, but many would say them (Wotc) doing that would take all their fun out of the format. The format is young and they should have played it much safer and grew. They really have now where to go now but try and keep it even. (of course there will be those who want all out broken magic, but I doubt they will ever go that far with this format).
I will admit that I forgot about Mythic, but would a deck that that even have a place in modern?
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I personally don't see anything wrong with the current banlist, and wouldn't want anything removed. Though I would love to see Emrakul added, only because I feel printing him was one of the worst and most unhealthy things they could've done for the game.
Draft My Cube!
People are just terrified of new things.
But the thing is you can get away with as little as 1x Sword and 2x Foundary and there are fewer outs to the Foundary than something like Elesh Norn or Iona. I know I'd take ThopterSword over Gifts Unburial Rights any day. Plus its pretty easy to cram both into one deck since you probably want to run gifts with both anyways.
I could be wrong here but one of the major allures to eternal formats as opposed to standard is the obvious amount of powerful and broken interactions. If I wanted to play something with a low power level I would play limited.
That ban list scared off a lot of people who would have invested time and money into this game. I don't think it didn't any good attracting any. All it did was make super obvious to me what the most powerful decks were going to be, as opposed to having something like;
Faeries
Caw-Blade
Affinity
Storm
Twin
Tron
ThopterBalance
Zoo
Living End
Hypergenesis
Infect combo's
etc
etc
etc
Then to me all I saw (And proved to be mostly true)
Zoo
Affinity
Jund
Twin
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
To me it's no better than it was before. Time wil ltell as to what the next broken deck to bash Modern in the face will be but it's a good time all the doomsayer's have WotC on their side.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
UWRasputin DreamweaverUW
UWBSen TripletsUWB