Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Thanks for that, it's gonna be pretty useful. Just one more thing, though: could you please list the tournaments making up that chart? That way it would be easier to know if we can provide more data or not.
Ya, I'll have to figure out where to put that. I currently have 15 tournaments. This is an attempt to see what the meta looks like with daily events excluded.
Paper:
Seattle
Portland
Montreal
Denver
Manchester
Rome
Bologna
Torino (I guess this was Turin right?)
Online PTQ:
3290351
3290352
3314377
Online Premier Events:
3284008
3284020
3314372
3314381
I also just realized I have Fae and Faeries on there. So those should be merged and pop up in the green section.
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():
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Ya, I'll have to figure out where to put that. I currently have 15 tournaments. This is an attempt to see what the meta looks like with daily events excluded.
Paper:
Seattle
Portland
Montreal
Denver
Manchester
Rome
Bologna
Torino (I guess this was Turin right?)
Online PTQ:
3290351
3290352
3314377
Online Premier Events:
3284008
3284020
3314372
3314381
I also just realized I have Fae and Faeries on there. So those should be merged and pop up in the green section.
Your work is tremendous, Cardfather. Thank you SO much for putting that together in a public space.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
I would think since the format is quite clearly only combo and aggro that control could see a resurgence seeing as it does not have to really worry about the mirror. Are just not enough people playing it?
I would think since the format is quite clearly only combo and aggro that control could see a resurgence seeing as it does not have to really worry about the mirror. Are just not enough people playing it?
There are control decks- they're just in the Aggro-control vein of Faeries/Caw-Blade or the ramp-style Tron/Gifts decks.
I would think since the format is quite clearly only combo and aggro that control could see a resurgence seeing as it does not have to really worry about the mirror. Are just not enough people playing it?
most control decks don't have a good plan for ending the game without tapping out which makes storm and twin pretty hard to beat. Control pretty much cannot win against tempo decks like delver, faeries, merfolk, and caw-variants because they have better counterspells and more efficient ways to do things. Control has 0 advantages over these tempo decks since card draw is pretty bad.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
most control decks don't have a good plan for ending the game without tapping out which makes storm and twin pretty hard to beat. Control pretty much cannot win against tempo decks like delver, faeries, merfolk, and caw-variants because they have better counterspells and more efficient ways to do things. Control has 0 advantages over these tempo decks since card draw is pretty bad.
This is sadly the truth... If you will recall...
When teachings was making some really good results was back when tempo decks were really under-developed.
That's the kind of results I like to see...no one deck dominating. That's what's going to keep this format alive and well.
So then, LandBoySteve, might you please change your status to "finally caved in and loving it"?
Format is looking pretty good right now. Sucks that more pure control decks aren't succeeding (that's more a problem with efficient counters and draw being absent from the format than anything else) but other than that everything is looking pretty good.
Last weekend's PTQs have been added to the official site.
UB Delver won in Michigan.
UR Storm won in Minnesota.
Affinity won in New York.
Boros won in Texas.
Ah, the Texas winner sometimes plays at my LGS. I saw him yesterday actually, didn't even know he won the PTQ. He had been talking before about choosing between Faeries and Boros.
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Standard Mono-Green Aggro Modern :symb::0mana: Dark Affinity | :symu::symr: UR Breach | :symb::symr: Dark Burn Casual :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Bruna Reanimator (Standard) My LGS is Asgard Games in Houston, TX.
Format is looking pretty good right now. Sucks that more pure control decks aren't succeeding (that's more a problem with efficient counters and draw being absent from the format than anything else) but other than that everything is looking pretty good.
As much as I love pure control decks, if having them out of the top-tier decks makes the format healthier and more popular in the long run, then that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
With recent trends, it's very difficult to actually have a full-on control deck in any format. Creatures and spells alike are very efficient and that makes things difficult. It's not incredibly easy to do in Legacy either but I try. That said, it is possible in both formats. Modern has Tron and some players have seen success with the Rock.
As much as I love pure control decks, if having them out of the top-tier decks makes the format healthier and more popular in the long run, then that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
then why play in the format lol. I am too damn stubborn to give up, but when i finally admit that control is not possible then I'm done.
Probably try to make the jump to Pro poker like so many others have. Efro, dave williams, ect.♠♣♥♦
as for on topic discussion we might have 3 tier 1 decks, but most likely it is just jund and twin. Delver decks have yet to settle and I am not sure how they do against the big 2.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
as for on topic discussion we might have 3 tier 1 decks, but most likely it is just jund and twin. Delver decks have yet to settle and I am not sure how they do against the big 2.
Yeah, Jund and Twin seem like the best two decks to me.
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WoTC, thank you for finally announcing the Modern format, an eternal format where everyone can participate.
And when you get a second Gifts, you can Gifts for cards based on board state / what's in your hand:
a Path to Exile, Snapcaster, land, and Isochron Scepter ...for example
or
Isochron Scepter, Snap, Colonnade (manland), Pyroclasm.
It really depends on the board state, what's in your hand, and whether or not you want to mess with your opponent. Sometimes it's funny putting a Pyroclasm in there, because they'll think you'll board wipe them so they give u a different card, but the Pyroclasm is already in your hand. Or they'll give you a Scepter, but not 2 of the spells you give in your Gifts, but you already have a Path, or a Research / Development, or a Lightning Helix in your hand.
I tend to wait until my opponent taps out for Gifts in this deck, because they don't expect them necessarily g2/g3 if they've seen enough of your deck g1, and they usually get demolished by whatever I'll Rites for. If they just wasted a Path, it's especially fun Gifts-ing for a Rites and a Sphinx, against an aggro deck, because they'll be less likely to have a 2nd Path (esp. if its mid-game or late-game).
Putting a Research / Develoment on a Isochron Scepter can let you Research your Gifts package in your deck if you have enough tempo gained to give yourself a window. Casting Research off a Scepter one turn, only to Development off the same Scepter next turn can be the nuts. If your opponent gives you 3 cards, you'll likely hit a Gifts or Unburial Rites on occasion
I was about to update the OP. I'd love to get it in.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
So, the best "fair" deck is 5th most sucessful and costs a million dollars...nice format
(no, I don't consider BBE into liliana fair)
It depends how you define 'fair'
Affinity as per the front page is the number 1 right now and is actually reasonably 'fair'. As much as anything it plays like Red Deck Wins... you lay creatures, you chuck a bit of burn. Yes it cheats removal a bit more via Ravager and manlands...but so does burn by not playing many creatures. Plus there's double the removal.
Jund is 'fair' because it's the rock. It grinds games and doesn't really have any bad matchups. Problem is the format can shift around the top deck and the turn you brick is the one where they might just follow up with some power.
Twin is technically fundamentally 'unfair' because it's a dirty combo deck. And they're really unfair. Except it has to lay creatures to win. And enchantments. So actually you can interact with them just fine with a plan and without running blue and counterspells (threaten to clock them so they have to go early and hope you don't have removal).
I don't get the search for a fair deck. Pretty much every deck of note does at least something that can be considered unfair since they bend rules and expectations. Zoo is arguably the closest thing to a 'fair' deck in this format because it lays creatures and removes blockers. Except a 2/3 for 1 is kinda 'unfair' because it's going to power past your average 2 drop of Grizzly Bear.
We're all playing with powerful cards in this format...the benefit of a bigger card pool. Right now though it all feels fairly balanced to itself (or at least nobody has broken it just yet).
Further more I don't feel prices are too bad. Goyf is too expensive, let's be really clear here. But most other decks not packing him? Things aren't too much more expensive than trying to get some of the best cards in standard (Snapcaster and Bob aren't too far apart in price). I'd love the mana bases to be a bit cheaper, but the fetches aren't too bad for what they are and you can get away with a couple of each shock...the further you stray into multi-colour though the more this hurts!
Personally I'm loving affinity, a good chunk of the cost of it comes from if you played Tempered Steel in standard at some point (Mox, Inkmoth) so it's not a bad bet. I'll probably pick up some staples as and when I have spare cash...a shock land here, set of fetches there...they tend to cross-archetype pretty well.
If I were buying into the format from relatively scratch, I'd either see what I'm close to from my standard card pool, or at least what's a cheaper version to then upgrade (e.g. Death Cloud Rock could eventually build into Jund...Burn into Boros into Zoo) Or alternatively pick a relatively cheap deck to use whilst buying format staples and sell off deck 1 once you need the final push (works for affinity for example because the Ravager and Opal don't see play elsewhere so it's an investment to flip later)
Building any (assuming T1 or T1.5) deck in any format (other than pauper) in a vacuum is going to cost. A lot.
But most competitive players don't operate in a vacuum. Joe Newcomer is a different story, and we're not dealing with him right now. So I don't understand what you mean by "costs a million dollars". Over the course of years, I have many of the staples (Lightning Bolt, Path To Exile, Doom Blade, Krosan Grip, Mana Leak, Lands, etc. You know, the basic stuff every other deck uses) on hand already for many of these decks, and probably wouldn't have to spend more than $100 (online pricing) or so to build any of 'em. I imagine many other players are in this same category.
Which boils down to your argument down to basically being "Fruit Cocktail is too expensive", when you already have most of the fruit lying around.
EDIT: As I tell my kids when they say "but that's not fair!": the fair is in August.
Legacy and Vintage weren't created as an alternative to expensive eternal formats. Modern was.
Affinity as per the front page is the number 1 right now and is actually reasonably 'fair'. As much as anything it plays like Red Deck Wins... you lay creatures, you chuck a bit of burn. Yes it cheats removal a bit more via Ravager and manlands...but so does burn by not playing many creatures. Plus there's double the removal.
Jund is 'fair' because it's the rock. It grinds games and doesn't really have any bad matchups. Problem is the format can shift around the top deck and the turn you brick is the one where they might just follow up with some power.
Twin is technically fundamentally 'unfair' because it's a dirty combo deck. And they're really unfair. Except it has to lay creatures to win. And enchantments. So actually you can interact with them just fine with a plan and without running blue and counterspells (threaten to clock them so they have to go early and hope you don't have removal).
I don't get the search for a fair deck. Pretty much every deck of note does at least something that can be considered unfair since they bend rules and expectations. Zoo is arguably the closest thing to a 'fair' deck in this format because it lays creatures and removes blockers. Except a 2/3 for 1 is kinda 'unfair' because it's going to power past your average 2 drop of Grizzly Bear.
We're all playing with powerful cards in this format...the benefit of a bigger card pool. Right now though it all feels fairly balanced to itself (or at least nobody has broken it just yet).
Further more I don't feel prices are too bad. Goyf is too expensive, let's be really clear here. But most other decks not packing him? Things aren't too much more expensive than trying to get some of the best cards in standard (Snapcaster and Bob aren't too far apart in price). I'd love the mana bases to be a bit cheaper, but the fetches aren't too bad for what they are and you can get away with a couple of each shock...the further you stray into multi-colour though the more this hurts!
Personally I'm loving affinity, a good chunk of the cost of it comes from if you played Tempered Steel in standard at some point (Mox, Inkmoth) so it's not a bad bet. I'll probably pick up some staples as and when I have spare cash...a shock land here, set of fetches there...they tend to cross-archetype pretty well.
If I were buying into the format from relatively scratch, I'd either see what I'm close to from my standard card pool, or at least what's a cheaper version to then upgrade (e.g. Death Cloud Rock could eventually build into Jund...Burn into Boros into Zoo) Or alternatively pick a relatively cheap deck to use whilst buying format staples and sell off deck 1 once you need the final push (works for affinity for example because the Ravager and Opal don't see play elsewhere so it's an investment to flip later)
WoTC doesn't like combo decks. I'm merely pointing out that by trying to ban certain decks, WoTC has ruined their own format. They WANT fair decks, but they've banned too many control cards for unfair decks to not keep dominating the format.
Also, Jund falls into the catergory of "Combo decks WoTC hates", even though it's not a combo deck, too many people have been complaining about BBE and Blightning for years.
PT Avacyn Restored in Barcelona.
Now that I'm less confused, I'll try to open the OP. For those of you who want to report results and get them counted in my metagame tally.
I need
1) The decks that made T8.
2) The deck that won
3) If possible the decklist of the winner (and a link if its published somewhere).
I'm going to assume that that tron list is the UW Control Variety?
What was in that RG list?
I've updated the OP with the results from this weekend.
Correct.
4 laghetto bollente
4 mesa arida
3 terreno calpestabile
4 montagna
4 berserker sangue tempestoso
4 guida goblin
4 saetta squarciante
4 getto di lava
4 tarmogoyf
4 lavamante spietato
4 mogg fanatico
4 fulmine
1 salva di cocci
3 sigilli del fuoco
2 incinerire
3 elementale scintillante infernale
3 sigillo dei primordi
4 bruciare
2 antico rancore
2 soffocamento
4 fustigatore con stigma
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
Ya, I'll have to figure out where to put that. I currently have 15 tournaments. This is an attempt to see what the meta looks like with daily events excluded.
Paper:
Seattle
Portland
Montreal
Denver
Manchester
Rome
Bologna
Torino (I guess this was Turin right?)
Online PTQ:
3290351
3290352
3314377
Online Premier Events:
3284008
3284020
3314372
3314381
I also just realized I have Fae and Faeries on there. So those should be merged and pop up in the green section.
Your work is tremendous, Cardfather. Thank you SO much for putting that together in a public space.
UB Delver won in Michigan.
UR Storm won in Minnesota.
Affinity won in New York.
Boros won in Texas.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
That's the kind of results I like to see...no one deck dominating. That's what's going to keep this format alive and well.
There are control decks- they're just in the Aggro-control vein of Faeries/Caw-Blade or the ramp-style Tron/Gifts decks.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
most control decks don't have a good plan for ending the game without tapping out which makes storm and twin pretty hard to beat. Control pretty much cannot win against tempo decks like delver, faeries, merfolk, and caw-variants because they have better counterspells and more efficient ways to do things. Control has 0 advantages over these tempo decks since card draw is pretty bad.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
When teachings was making some really good results was back when tempo decks were really under-developed.
So then, LandBoySteve, might you please change your status to "finally caved in and loving it"?
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
WSoul Sisters
RWG Pod Combo
URSplinter Twin
URStorm
RBurn
Not only that, but I'll even include the decks I'm building in my sig.
Ah, the Texas winner sometimes plays at my LGS. I saw him yesterday actually, didn't even know he won the PTQ. He had been talking before about choosing between Faeries and Boros.
Modern :symb::0mana: Dark Affinity | :symu::symr: UR Breach | :symb::symr: Dark Burn
Casual :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Bruna Reanimator (Standard)
My LGS is Asgard Games in Houston, TX.
As much as I love pure control decks, if having them out of the top-tier decks makes the format healthier and more popular in the long run, then that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
UWU/W BlinkUW
BMono-Black ControlB
Commander:
GWUJenaraGWU
BGeth MBCB
RGXenagosRG
WUBSharuumWUB (retired)
Modern:
xAffinityx (starting)
Standard:
Ha! That's a good one.
L1 Judge
then why play in the format lol. I am too damn stubborn to give up, but when i finally admit that control is not possible then I'm done.
Probably try to make the jump to Pro poker like so many others have. Efro, dave williams, ect.♠♣♥♦
as for on topic discussion we might have 3 tier 1 decks, but most likely it is just jund and twin. Delver decks have yet to settle and I am not sure how they do against the big 2.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Yeah, Jund and Twin seem like the best two decks to me.
You should sideboard in sphinx or elesh based on matchup.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
a Path to Exile, Snapcaster, land, and Isochron Scepter ...for example
or
Isochron Scepter, Snap, Colonnade (manland), Pyroclasm.
It really depends on the board state, what's in your hand, and whether or not you want to mess with your opponent. Sometimes it's funny putting a Pyroclasm in there, because they'll think you'll board wipe them so they give u a different card, but the Pyroclasm is already in your hand. Or they'll give you a Scepter, but not 2 of the spells you give in your Gifts, but you already have a Path, or a Research / Development, or a Lightning Helix in your hand.
I tend to wait until my opponent taps out for Gifts in this deck, because they don't expect them necessarily g2/g3 if they've seen enough of your deck g1, and they usually get demolished by whatever I'll Rites for. If they just wasted a Path, it's especially fun Gifts-ing for a Rites and a Sphinx, against an aggro deck, because they'll be less likely to have a 2nd Path (esp. if its mid-game or late-game).
Putting a Research / Develoment on a Isochron Scepter can let you Research your Gifts package in your deck if you have enough tempo gained to give yourself a window. Casting Research off a Scepter one turn, only to Development off the same Scepter next turn can be the nuts. If your opponent gives you 3 cards, you'll likely hit a Gifts or Unburial Rites on occasion
I was about to update the OP. I'd love to get it in.
Lol. I missed that post. I think I checked everywhere else.
OP is updated with "decks of the week" results.
Edit: Looks like I need to find a Jund list.
You're missing Moscow. Other than that, I think you have them all.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
So, the best "fair" deck is 5th most sucessful and costs a million dollars...nice format
(no, I don't consider BBE into liliana fair)
This isn't the thread for price discussion. This is a thread about what's competitive. Spam Warning. t_c
It depends how you define 'fair'
Affinity as per the front page is the number 1 right now and is actually reasonably 'fair'. As much as anything it plays like Red Deck Wins... you lay creatures, you chuck a bit of burn. Yes it cheats removal a bit more via Ravager and manlands...but so does burn by not playing many creatures. Plus there's double the removal.
Jund is 'fair' because it's the rock. It grinds games and doesn't really have any bad matchups. Problem is the format can shift around the top deck and the turn you brick is the one where they might just follow up with some power.
Twin is technically fundamentally 'unfair' because it's a dirty combo deck. And they're really unfair. Except it has to lay creatures to win. And enchantments. So actually you can interact with them just fine with a plan and without running blue and counterspells (threaten to clock them so they have to go early and hope you don't have removal).
I don't get the search for a fair deck. Pretty much every deck of note does at least something that can be considered unfair since they bend rules and expectations. Zoo is arguably the closest thing to a 'fair' deck in this format because it lays creatures and removes blockers. Except a 2/3 for 1 is kinda 'unfair' because it's going to power past your average 2 drop of Grizzly Bear.
We're all playing with powerful cards in this format...the benefit of a bigger card pool. Right now though it all feels fairly balanced to itself (or at least nobody has broken it just yet).
Further more I don't feel prices are too bad. Goyf is too expensive, let's be really clear here. But most other decks not packing him? Things aren't too much more expensive than trying to get some of the best cards in standard (Snapcaster and Bob aren't too far apart in price). I'd love the mana bases to be a bit cheaper, but the fetches aren't too bad for what they are and you can get away with a couple of each shock...the further you stray into multi-colour though the more this hurts!
Personally I'm loving affinity, a good chunk of the cost of it comes from if you played Tempered Steel in standard at some point (Mox, Inkmoth) so it's not a bad bet. I'll probably pick up some staples as and when I have spare cash...a shock land here, set of fetches there...they tend to cross-archetype pretty well.
If I were buying into the format from relatively scratch, I'd either see what I'm close to from my standard card pool, or at least what's a cheaper version to then upgrade (e.g. Death Cloud Rock could eventually build into Jund...Burn into Boros into Zoo) Or alternatively pick a relatively cheap deck to use whilst buying format staples and sell off deck 1 once you need the final push (works for affinity for example because the Ravager and Opal don't see play elsewhere so it's an investment to flip later)
Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
Legacy and Vintage weren't created as an alternative to expensive eternal formats. Modern was.
WoTC doesn't like combo decks. I'm merely pointing out that by trying to ban certain decks, WoTC has ruined their own format. They WANT fair decks, but they've banned too many control cards for unfair decks to not keep dominating the format.
Also, Jund falls into the catergory of "Combo decks WoTC hates", even though it's not a combo deck, too many people have been complaining about BBE and Blightning for years.