hello. i got a question: since this deck (uwr midrange) won the gp bilbao last weekend i looked for a thread about this deck in the "proven" or "competitive" section. there seems to be only uwx delver (tempo) and uwx control threads, which this deck both is not, which i find weird. can somebody link me to the right thread? i mean there must be one, its been a deck for a while now, i just couldnt find it. thank you.
Arrrrr this be a question for the mods matey.
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There has never been a land that enters the battlefield untapped unconditionally and taps for two colors unconditionally. That would be strictly better than a basic land
Whats the game plan vs UW control? It has been picking up in popularity and they pretty much trump all of our game plan. More counters, more wipes, and revelation just puts them over the top.
So, with Seething Song gone, do you guys think that Storm is no longer much of a concern? Should we cut the Rule of Law and free up 2 spots for something else? What else is Rule of Law for? Eggs, sure, but that's not a big player in the metagame.
If you were to free those two slots, what cards for which matchups should we add?
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Winner of the SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Jul 26-28, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
well, congrats guys. we're now playing the strongest deck in the format! hopefully we can stand getting something banned out of our list in may.
Yes, I hope it's not Geist though? Right now we are finally the best fair deck in the format! Muahah
Anyways to the guy above concerning the UW matchup, I've been finding it VERY favorable, since basically you just play like a Burn deck, Snapcastering everything at the end of turn and slowly beating them down (never overextending) and if they tap out for a wipe, which they will eventually do, you always have that Geist in hand waiting to tear another control deck. If everything else fails, Celestial Colonnade can usually finish them off. I don't see it being any hard honestly
I played the Deck just to understand it, and found it realy both fun and successfull, so I think I ll drop Tezz and go with it.
The thing is, as I was missing a Clique and a Mindcensor, and just wanted a try, I just throwed 2 Elspeth main and found them amazing. Not only it pro vides extra strenght by giving evasion and power to a Geist, but the first ability is also relevant against Tarmogoyf by providing a blocker or extra tempo. As Tarmo is a problem to the Deck, I was wondering why Elspeth wasn t played so far. Any thought?
Personally, Elspeth seems a bit too slow for what the deck wants to to do. The only times I'm tapping out on my turn is to stick a Geist if it looks clear in the early game, and to activate Colonnade in the late game. Tapping out for Elspeth feels like it could be extremely powerful, but open me up to more blowouts.
I've had a hell of a time solving the tron MU. I mean, I guess I could just board Blood Moon, but that puts us at a severe disadvantage with Colonnades and Cliques. Sowing Salt and Tec Edge are a turn too slow, Molten Rain is clunky and no guarantee of handicapping them, and Ghost Quarter is only OK.
just run a slightly higher counter density if tron is proving to be a problem. you can stall them turn 3 when they get them online. then you can sowing salt the following turn.
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I ran this at FNM against a really casual meta, and came out on top. Only other difficult matchups were merfolk and RDW, which I won over. I ran Cryptic Commands over Izzet charm, which I felt would be better, and it was. I'm going to keep those in there over the charm. I played some games against Jund on Saturday between rounds at the pre-re, and felt preboard it was a good matchup, but cryptic helped it out a lot.
Also, what do people think about steppe lynx over geist? I thought about running him in place of geist, since he does more, much quicker than geist who feels like a dead draw most early games.
Also, what are the thoughts on boros charm? I thought about this over remand, or maybe something else in the deck.
Also, what are the thoughts on boros charm? I thought about this over remand, or maybe something else in the deck.
You should read the thread. People have given their opinion on it. The consensus is that it's bad, but you can test it if you want
Boros Charm - I've said this on my stream and I can reiterate it here. The card is nowhere need an auto include in the deck. The charm actually only has two modes, as you will never ever ever use double strike mode. Further 4 damage to dome is nice but bolt does that for one less mana and one less damage. The other ability is protecting your geist, which is the better of the abilities, however almost every other card in your deck will also do that by removing blockers. Therefore the card doesn't add anything to the deck and lacks the versatility that the deck needs, and probably doesn't belong in the flash version of the deck. Might work in delver version, but I did that version to currently be inferior.
Correct me if I'm wrong but this is just an evolved version of WUR delver and the reason this deck dropped lynx/delver is because jund running a million removal spells made them bad which geist is kinda good against.
Another problem was that delver and lynx have anti synergies. Lynx wants lands where as delver wants instants and sorceries. Also delver didn't flip much in the format. It flipped around 40% of the time where as in other formats it flips 60+%. If delver flipped more often the card would get more play even if it dies easily to removal.
Thank for your answer on Elspeth. I listened and ultimately switched for 2 Resto Angel in her spot, and happily 4-0ed a daily event yesterday.
Here are my thoughts so far, after about 25 games with the deck:
Tron – the MU is kinda fair. It all dipends on what threats you're gonna see and if you can race him. On a god draw on his side you can just rely on counterspells. A poor draw on our side is quasi auto-lose.
Aura – very defavorable MU. Might be the worst. G1 is unwinnable if they enchant a creature with daybreak coronet. Post side, you gotta rely on EE, spellskite and disenchant, which is very few; and I saw a deck playing stony silent post-side…
Jund – favorable. We got a lot of caracteristics from burn deck, which are traditionaly good against jund. We usualy can remove the turn1 shaman which makes the game more fair, and lili is dealable if played around correctly. The only problem is Goyf, but not undealable, by far.
Pod – I found it easily disruptable. We kill a lot of creatures, and mindcensor is strong. Seems to be a good MU.
Scapeshift – Seems our clock is faster then his. Also seems favorable.
Eggs – Well, I don t know what you guys do against Silence, but that very card just beats me everytime I play against this deck. An horrible MU.
Infect – Just blast their creature during their own turn, and they'll fastly run out of gas. Don t hesitate to chump with a snapcaster.
UW Control – Grindy game, but it more easy for us to kill from a distance while still countering.
Tokens – Hard G1, G2 and 3 are much better
Splinter Twin – Kiki is ok since we can easily blast it. But the enchant is still a problem. I think a spellskite route is the way to go. Btw the MU seems good.
Affinity – never played against? How's the MU like?
Are my feelings good so far? Am I misunderstanding smthing?
Well, I m thinking about adding more spellskite and the Shroud Leyline in the board. The leyline did very well for me so far, and I think Spellskite is great instead of tranquility, since it s good against aura, but also in other MU. Or Maybe 1 more disenchant?
Winner of the SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Jul 26-28, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
Affinity is a pretty good matchup, most of their damage comes from cranial plating or ravager, both of which are easily killed by removal. Plus, Shatterstorm or Hurkyl's Recall in the side is crushing to them.
This isn t perfect so far. I ve been tweaking the mana base, and played 2 Resto Angel instead of 1 Mindcensor and 1 Clique to gain an edge in the Mirror.
I also made some change in the side; I m very happy with the leyline, but spellskite might be not as awesome as I thought at first glance.
I definitely missed the second EE in the side and will afford 1. A second mindcensor was nice, too, but I don t know how to bring him back.
So how good is Restoration Angel in WUR Midrange? The latest PTQ lists have started playing 2 Restos (instead of the classic list which won GP Bilbao) I guess to have a good instant beater/blocker whenever you need, to save Geist from combat, and to get value from Snaps, Cliques and Thundermaws lategame.
All of this sounds very good, so is it worth it? Has anybody tested it here/has an opinion?
So how good is Restoration Angel in WUR Midrange? The latest PTQ lists have started playing 2 Restos (instead of the classic list which won GP Bilbao) I guess to have a good instant beater/blocker whenever you need, to save Geist from combat, and to get value from Snaps, Cliques and Thundermaws lategame.
All of this sounds very good, so is it worth it? Has anybody tested it here/has an opinion?
Resto is really nice, gets you value from Clique and Snappy, but more often then not Resto is just a EOT 3/4 Flyer beater. Which is still good, just not OMG SO MUCH VALUE, because you often need some kind of clock in the control mirror that is not easily killed.
Is anyone else trying Aurelia's Fury in this deck? IMO, this is one of that card's best homes: it runs enough lands to get X to something reasonably large, and it can use the board wipe, the Fireball, and even the tapping and Silence (although the Silence hasn't panned out very well for me).
From my testing, it's decent against Spirit Jund (whacks Lingering Souls and Bob pretty efficiently, is no slouch at frying Deathrite Shaman, taps Goyfs to get Traft in, keeps Liliana OTV from being cast for one more turn) and great against UR Storm (they need to play around it fairly hard by attempting to combo off twice in a row or by digging for a counterspell/land tapper, then they can't predict precisely how close they are to lethal post-Fury--just hit them with Fury at around the third spell if they have Pyromancer Ascension active, as they can combo off on it alone), but mediocre to poor against Scapeshift (the Silence can only delay the inevitable, especially when you have to cautiously cast it as soon as they hit 6+ lands).
Is anyone else trying Aurelia's Fury in this deck? IMO, this is one of that card's best homes: it runs enough lands to get X to something reasonably large, and it can use the board wipe, the Fireball, and even the tapping and Silence (although the Silence hasn't panned out very well for me).
From my testing, it's decent against Spirit Jund (whacks Lingering Souls and Bob pretty efficiently, is no slouch at frying Deathrite Shaman, taps Goyfs to get Traft in, keeps Liliana OTV from being cast for one more turn) and great against UR Storm (they need to play around it fairly hard by attempting to combo off twice in a row or by digging for a counterspell/land tapper, then they can't predict precisely how close they are to lethal post-Fury--just hit them with Fury at around the third spell if they have Pyromancer Ascension active, as they can combo off on it alone), but mediocre to poor against Scapeshift (the Silence can only delay the inevitable, especially when you have to cautiously cast it as soon as they hit 6+ lands).
I'm currently testing it as a 2-of instead of izzet charm, it is great against so many decks, shutting down any non-creatures for a turn is amazing vs control decks and Jund. Plus, lategame it can be a wincon on its own.
How would you play against the G/W Hatebears match up?
Most specifically, against Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Loxodon Smiter and Wilt-Leaf Liege.
It seems like a horrible match up, even post-board...
It isn't a great matchup, G/W Hatebears is meant to hate on decks like ours, but if you remove their threats and keep their board clean, you can win it.
It isn't a great matchup, G/W Hatebears is meant to hate on decks like ours, but if you remove their threats and keep their board clean, you can win it.
That's what i'm worried about. There is no efficient way of removing their creatures, even post board...
I feel like they are just Clique number 4 and 5. I understand against control and combo, flash is really important, and its another body that can swing in when Hellkite lands, but is 2 extra damage worth it?
Or is there some complex calculation that deals exactly 18~20 damage for the kill that I don't know about?
I kind of doubt that it's there for land destruction...
If you feel like you won't be playing against much pod, scapeshift, rg tron or eggs, you can put the mindcensor in the board. Mindcensor is the card you side out the most, but you want it main since it fits on curve, has flash, is evasive, and helps you in the bad match ups I mentioned.
Arrrrr this be a question for the mods matey.
Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
If you were to free those two slots, what cards for which matchups should we add?
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
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Yes, I hope it's not Geist though? Right now we are finally the best fair deck in the format! Muahah
Anyways to the guy above concerning the UW matchup, I've been finding it VERY favorable, since basically you just play like a Burn deck, Snapcastering everything at the end of turn and slowly beating them down (never overextending) and if they tap out for a wipe, which they will eventually do, you always have that Geist in hand waiting to tear another control deck. If everything else fails, Celestial Colonnade can usually finish them off. I don't see it being any hard honestly
I played the Deck just to understand it, and found it realy both fun and successfull, so I think I ll drop Tezz and go with it.
The thing is, as I was missing a Clique and a Mindcensor, and just wanted a try, I just throwed 2 Elspeth main and found them amazing. Not only it pro vides extra strenght by giving evasion and power to a Geist, but the first ability is also relevant against Tarmogoyf by providing a blocker or extra tempo. As Tarmo is a problem to the Deck, I was wondering why Elspeth wasn t played so far. Any thought?
I've had a hell of a time solving the tron MU. I mean, I guess I could just board Blood Moon, but that puts us at a severe disadvantage with Colonnades and Cliques. Sowing Salt and Tec Edge are a turn too slow, Molten Rain is clunky and no guarantee of handicapping them, and Ghost Quarter is only OK.
Modern:
UR Storm RU
RG Titanshift GR
MTGO: MrPajitnv (Yes I typo'd it)
Also, what do people think about steppe lynx over geist? I thought about running him in place of geist, since he does more, much quicker than geist who feels like a dead draw most early games.
Also, what are the thoughts on boros charm? I thought about this over remand, or maybe something else in the deck.
You should read the thread. People have given their opinion on it. The consensus is that it's bad, but you can test it if you want
Boros Charm - I've said this on my stream and I can reiterate it here. The card is nowhere need an auto include in the deck. The charm actually only has two modes, as you will never ever ever use double strike mode. Further 4 damage to dome is nice but bolt does that for one less mana and one less damage. The other ability is protecting your geist, which is the better of the abilities, however almost every other card in your deck will also do that by removing blockers. Therefore the card doesn't add anything to the deck and lacks the versatility that the deck needs, and probably doesn't belong in the flash version of the deck. Might work in delver version, but I did that version to currently be inferior.
Another problem was that delver and lynx have anti synergies. Lynx wants lands where as delver wants instants and sorceries. Also delver didn't flip much in the format. It flipped around 40% of the time where as in other formats it flips 60+%. If delver flipped more often the card would get more play even if it dies easily to removal.
Here are my thoughts so far, after about 25 games with the deck:
Tron – the MU is kinda fair. It all dipends on what threats you're gonna see and if you can race him. On a god draw on his side you can just rely on counterspells. A poor draw on our side is quasi auto-lose.
Aura – very defavorable MU. Might be the worst. G1 is unwinnable if they enchant a creature with daybreak coronet. Post side, you gotta rely on EE, spellskite and disenchant, which is very few; and I saw a deck playing stony silent post-side…
Jund – favorable. We got a lot of caracteristics from burn deck, which are traditionaly good against jund. We usualy can remove the turn1 shaman which makes the game more fair, and lili is dealable if played around correctly. The only problem is Goyf, but not undealable, by far.
Pod – I found it easily disruptable. We kill a lot of creatures, and mindcensor is strong. Seems to be a good MU.
Scapeshift – Seems our clock is faster then his. Also seems favorable.
Eggs – Well, I don t know what you guys do against Silence, but that very card just beats me everytime I play against this deck. An horrible MU.
Infect – Just blast their creature during their own turn, and they'll fastly run out of gas. Don t hesitate to chump with a snapcaster.
UW Control – Grindy game, but it more easy for us to kill from a distance while still countering.
Tokens – Hard G1, G2 and 3 are much better
Splinter Twin – Kiki is ok since we can easily blast it. But the enchant is still a problem. I think a spellskite route is the way to go. Btw the MU seems good.
Affinity – never played against? How's the MU like?
Are my feelings good so far? Am I misunderstanding smthing?
Well, I m thinking about adding more spellskite and the Shroud Leyline in the board. The leyline did very well for me so far, and I think Spellskite is great instead of tranquility, since it s good against aura, but also in other MU. Or Maybe 1 more disenchant?
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Las Vegas, NV, Dec 13-15, 2013
Top 8 of SCG Invitational, Somerset, NJ, Aug 28-30, 2015
Winner of SCG Worcester Team Sealed Open with Gerard Fabiano and Curtis Sheu, September 28, 2013
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3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mystic Gate
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Tectonic Edge
25 lands
1 Aven Mindcensor
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Restoration Angel
14 creatures
2 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
3 Path to Exile
3 Remand
21 other spells
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Batterskull
1 Counterflux
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Rule of Law
4 Leyline blanches
3 Spellskite
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
This isn t perfect so far. I ve been tweaking the mana base, and played 2 Resto Angel instead of 1 Mindcensor and 1 Clique to gain an edge in the Mirror.
I also made some change in the side; I m very happy with the leyline, but spellskite might be not as awesome as I thought at first glance.
I definitely missed the second EE in the side and will afford 1. A second mindcensor was nice, too, but I don t know how to bring him back.
All of this sounds very good, so is it worth it? Has anybody tested it here/has an opinion?
Resto is really nice, gets you value from Clique and Snappy, but more often then not Resto is just a EOT 3/4 Flyer beater. Which is still good, just not OMG SO MUCH VALUE, because you often need some kind of clock in the control mirror that is not easily killed.
From my testing, it's decent against Spirit Jund (whacks Lingering Souls and Bob pretty efficiently, is no slouch at frying Deathrite Shaman, taps Goyfs to get Traft in, keeps Liliana OTV from being cast for one more turn) and great against UR Storm (they need to play around it fairly hard by attempting to combo off twice in a row or by digging for a counterspell/land tapper, then they can't predict precisely how close they are to lethal post-Fury--just hit them with Fury at around the third spell if they have Pyromancer Ascension active, as they can combo off on it alone), but mediocre to poor against Scapeshift (the Silence can only delay the inevitable, especially when you have to cautiously cast it as soon as they hit 6+ lands).
I'm currently testing it as a 2-of instead of izzet charm, it is great against so many decks, shutting down any non-creatures for a turn is amazing vs control decks and Jund. Plus, lategame it can be a wincon on its own.
Most specifically, against Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Loxodon Smiter and Wilt-Leaf Liege.
It seems like a horrible match up, even post-board...
It isn't a great matchup, G/W Hatebears is meant to hate on decks like ours, but if you remove their threats and keep their board clean, you can win it.
That's what i'm worried about. There is no efficient way of removing their creatures, even post board...
However it's still not a great match up depending on their draw and if you draw the correct sweepers for their draw.
I feel like they are just Clique number 4 and 5. I understand against control and combo, flash is really important, and its another body that can swing in when Hellkite lands, but is 2 extra damage worth it?
Or is there some complex calculation that deals exactly 18~20 damage for the kill that I don't know about?
I kind of doubt that it's there for land destruction...
You should probably read the thread again if you don't know why it's there and whether you can take it out.