What if, to make up for the lack of mana that we will now have, we decided to switch to a Pyromancers Swath shell, often requiring us to only reach five storm, and ran some number of free spells to generate storm without any mana? Say gutshot, since it does 3 damage with swath. Or we could run a more creature heavy version, running Guttersnipe, empty the warrens, Bushwacker, and Infernal Plunge?
pentad prism gives you +2 mana on turn three, but it does not add to storm count and you can't flash it back with pif lotus bloom gives you +3 mana on turn four, it does add to storm count but you can't flash it back with pif
I think those are the "easy substitutes" if you don't want to switch to swath
other easy substitutes would be more hand sculpting cards, making the deck a turn 4 deck with electromancer makes cards like telling time much better
On another note, I don't get the fuzz about not being able to PiF > "recombo" without SS.
Turn 2: (or 1, when playing Spirit guides) Ritual, Ritual, Ritual, Ritual (= 6 mana) > past in flames > 4x Ritual > grapeshot> flashback PiF >grapeshot again (obviously this requires either some splicing Desperate Rituals, or an extra ritual).
As for the turn 3, (which is still a nice turn to win on, by all means) Goblin Electromancer on turn 2 makes it rather hard not to win.
The problem with this is you're now only running 8 rituals total. The chances of having 4 of those in a reasonable amount of time is not high enough to rely on.
The problem with this is you're now only running 8 rituals total. The chances of having 4 of those in a reasonable amount of time is not high enough to rely on.
Absolutely. This is the point I feel keeps getting missed. There were only 3 "good" rituals available to us in the first place, and the best of those got banned. Now there are only 2 "good" rituals, leaving you with only 8 rituals in your deck to pull (unless you count Electromancer as a ritual).
If the deck survives, it has to truly reconsider it's win conditions and playstyle. If there are any top-tier Storm decks three months from now, they will, in all likelihood, hardly resemble what we've been playing with up until now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
I think Infernal Plunge is a pretty good plan, and could well be a replacement. If you look at the way Spanish Inquisition uses Summoners Pact, this could quite easily be implemented into storm here. Pact can easily go and get Dryad Arbor, or better yet, the new Burning-Tree Emissary. This adds 3 to the storm count, as well as netting mana. Viable?
I'm also liking the idea of Empty the Warrens with Battle Hymn. I think with some reshaping, this deck can still be a thing.
There has never been a land that enters the battlefield untapped unconditionally and taps for two colors unconditionally. That would be strictly better than a basic land
We got a new ritural when return to ravnica came out, Goblin electromancer + manamorphoses. So losing 1 isnt that big of a problem. we can gain more consistancy with more search slight of hand and serum visions, this is far from a dead deck!!!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard: pft, i love to see my cards depreciate in value once they rotate :S
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
Infernal Plunge, looks alright but will have to maindeck more creatures, ie goblin bushwacker, goblin electromancer, wee dragnaunts, kiln fiend and empty the warrens. and with running a creature build battle hymn might be usable as well. It could work and still might be able to get the t3 win
Standard: pft, i love to see my cards depreciate in value once they rotate :S
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
I was pessimistic about UR Storm's chances before, but I've actually gotten somewhat consistent Turns 3-4 kills by swapping out 4 Seething Song with 1 Mana Seism and 3 Channel the Suns from the Epic Electromancer build (Goblin Electromancer and Epic Experiment). I've kludged up the mana base to reliably produce green mana (17 lands, 8 fetchlands, 1 Breeding Pool, 1 Copperline Gorge, 2 Gemstone Mine). Channel the Suns producing blue mana has been great, and I've comboed off on Turn 3 with 2 lands and an Electromancer (goldfishing) by having to restart the spell chain post-Past in Flames with a Manamorphose cast with G only (already tapped the other land to play a ritual at the start of the spell chain).
Taking the Electromancer Ascension (Electromancer and Pyromancer Ascension) build and replacing the Songs with 2 more Storm engines, an Electromancer, and a Desperate Ravings hasn't gone so well, though. It's losing more often to RDW, and I think the URg Epic Electromancer build will lose less often.
Seems like some really good stuff going on in this thread, splashing green is pretty cool. Good luck guys! Always loved storm. Also what about Izzet Guildmage? 3 to copy a semms good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not." - John Lennon
Okay, I didn't know that mana seism existed... It's pretty awesome.
So, here's a weird idea... Lets combine Storm with Sunrise decks.
Mana seism sacrificing all lands, Second Sunrise or Faiths Reward, get all your lands back? Paired with Ghost Quarter and Fetches could net us a lot of mana, which we can use to cast Past in Flames. People are talking about Lotus Bloom, this could possibly work with it too.
And I'm probably on a stretch already... But throw Lotus Cobra in there too?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
About Mindslaver rulings:
Quote from ebcubs03 »
so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
What keeps Sunrise going are sacrificable permanents like Blooms, Stars and fetches. When you Sunrise, all those permanents get put back onto the battlefield. Instants and sorceries do not work well with Sunrise because they stay in the graveyard after a Sunrise.
What keeps Sunrise going are sacrificable permanents like Blooms, Stars and fetches. When you Sunrise, all those permanents get put back onto the battlefield. Instants and sorceries do not work well with Sunrise because they stay in the graveyard after a Sunrise.
But the lands sac'd by Mana Seism WOULD come back into play, and that's all you'd need. Why is Summoners pact, arbor elf, and infernal plunge seemingly viable, and this not? You could still combo off around the same time, and they both share similar weakness to counter spells. At least with mana Seism saccing the lands isn't an additional cost.
Edit: okay, think about this (tenative decklist, no where near what it should really be)
Turn 1: land, Wild Cantor or serum visions or Slight of Hand or Gitaxian Probe.
Turn 2: land, two of the spells possibly played last turn.
Turn 3: land, (possibility of going off with a ritual and/or Manamorphose, likely should play some more draw spells or Wild Cantors)
Turn 4: land, (here's where it gets crazy, try to follow me), two of your lands should be Flagstones and Ghost Quarter, sac GQ and destroy Flagstones (4 lands, one tapped, and one mana floating), float 4 (4 mana total), cast Mana Seism, sac all lands (8 mana total, 1 storm), sac any wild cantors (9 mana), cast Faiths reward (5 mana, 2 storm, 6 untapped lands), sac GQ, destroy flagstones (floating the mana), float the other 5 mana, sac cantor (12 mana floating), cast PiF (8 mana, 3storm), cast Mana Seism from grave, saccing all lands (12 mana, 4 storm), cast Faiths reward from grave (8 mana, 5 storm, 8 untapped lands), cast any other spells from your grave to draw cards and increase storm count, should draw into another Mana Seism and faiths reward to repeat the process.
so just make a somewhat inconsistent deck into a more inconsistent deck....sweet...i know your joking...or at least i can hope so.
I don't think this is all that bad of an idea to go into. if you run 4 Burning-Tree Emissary, 4 Summoner's Pact, 4 Priest of Urabrask, 4 Cloudstone Curio you can trigger infinite storm with 12 copies of "free" non-artifact creatures to protect against disruption. Run this with Empty the Warrens and goblin bushwacker and even if the infinite combo gets disrupted you can go free creature, free creature, warrens, bushwacker for 20 damage. fabricate or ancient stirrings could work as a tutor. If only summoner's pact didn't count as green....
Infernal Plunge if you have extra electromancers?
Mana Geyser after a eot Gigadrowse?
Was always one of my favorites in TS Block.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=7718699&postcount=248
Trade thread!
*Needs updating, got retired and am figuring out how to fix that problem
lotus bloom gives you +3 mana on turn four, it does add to storm count but you can't flash it back with pif
I think those are the "easy substitutes" if you don't want to switch to swath
other easy substitutes would be more hand sculpting cards, making the deck a turn 4 deck with electromancer makes cards like telling time much better
The problem with this is you're now only running 8 rituals total. The chances of having 4 of those in a reasonable amount of time is not high enough to rely on.
Legacy
Control
Miracles
All flavors of Stoneblade
Aggro
Grixis Delver
UR Delver
Burn
Combo
Dredge
TES/ANT
UR & UB Reanimator
Belcher
Absolutely. This is the point I feel keeps getting missed. There were only 3 "good" rituals available to us in the first place, and the best of those got banned. Now there are only 2 "good" rituals, leaving you with only 8 rituals in your deck to pull (unless you count Electromancer as a ritual).
If the deck survives, it has to truly reconsider it's win conditions and playstyle. If there are any top-tier Storm decks three months from now, they will, in all likelihood, hardly resemble what we've been playing with up until now.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
I'm also liking the idea of Empty the Warrens with Battle Hymn. I think with some reshaping, this deck can still be a thing.
Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
It adds to the Storm count but only if you go off the turn it comes into play which can be tough to plan for.
Mordern: Melira, UR Storm, RDW, Infect, W life/control, UW Tron
Legacy: RDW, Pox
Vintage: Dark Depths, R Grey Orge
Taking the Electromancer Ascension (Electromancer and Pyromancer Ascension) build and replacing the Songs with 2 more Storm engines, an Electromancer, and a Desperate Ravings hasn't gone so well, though. It's losing more often to RDW, and I think the URg Epic Electromancer build will lose less often.
So, here's a weird idea... Lets combine Storm with Sunrise decks.
Mana seism sacrificing all lands, Second Sunrise or Faiths Reward, get all your lands back? Paired with Ghost Quarter and Fetches could net us a lot of mana, which we can use to cast Past in Flames. People are talking about Lotus Bloom, this could possibly work with it too.
And I'm probably on a stretch already... But throw Lotus Cobra in there too?
About Mindslaver rulings:
What keeps Sunrise going are sacrificable permanents like Blooms, Stars and fetches. When you Sunrise, all those permanents get put back onto the battlefield. Instants and sorceries do not work well with Sunrise because they stay in the graveyard after a Sunrise.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
But the lands sac'd by Mana Seism WOULD come back into play, and that's all you'd need. Why is Summoners pact, arbor elf, and infernal plunge seemingly viable, and this not? You could still combo off around the same time, and they both share similar weakness to counter spells. At least with mana Seism saccing the lands isn't an additional cost.
Edit: okay, think about this (tenative decklist, no where near what it should really be)
4x Faiths reward
4x Mana Seism
3x Past in Flames
Wincon:
4x Grapeshot
Draw:
4x Slight of hand
4x Gitaxian Probe
3x Serum Visions
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Manamorphose
4x Pyretic Ritual
4x Wild Cantor
Lands:
4x Flagstones of Trokair
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Hollowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
3x Plains
2x Mountain
2x Island
Turn 1: land, Wild Cantor or serum visions or Slight of Hand or Gitaxian Probe.
Turn 2: land, two of the spells possibly played last turn.
Turn 3: land, (possibility of going off with a ritual and/or Manamorphose, likely should play some more draw spells or Wild Cantors)
Turn 4: land, (here's where it gets crazy, try to follow me), two of your lands should be Flagstones and Ghost Quarter, sac GQ and destroy Flagstones (4 lands, one tapped, and one mana floating), float 4 (4 mana total), cast Mana Seism, sac all lands (8 mana total, 1 storm), sac any wild cantors (9 mana), cast Faiths reward (5 mana, 2 storm, 6 untapped lands), sac GQ, destroy flagstones (floating the mana), float the other 5 mana, sac cantor (12 mana floating), cast PiF (8 mana, 3storm), cast Mana Seism from grave, saccing all lands (12 mana, 4 storm), cast Faiths reward from grave (8 mana, 5 storm, 8 untapped lands), cast any other spells from your grave to draw cards and increase storm count, should draw into another Mana Seism and faiths reward to repeat the process.
About Mindslaver rulings:
I don't think this is all that bad of an idea to go into. if you run 4 Burning-Tree Emissary, 4 Summoner's Pact, 4 Priest of Urabrask, 4 Cloudstone Curio you can trigger infinite storm with 12 copies of "free" non-artifact creatures to protect against disruption. Run this with Empty the Warrens and goblin bushwacker and even if the infinite combo gets disrupted you can go free creature, free creature, warrens, bushwacker for 20 damage. fabricate or ancient stirrings could work as a tutor. If only summoner's pact didn't count as green....