Transformational Sideboards

  • #1
    Has anyone considered using the sideboard to turn into a "All-in Red" style deck? Would it have any inherent advantages or disadvantages?

    For example:

    -4 Past in flames
    -4 Empty the warrens
    -4 Grapeshot
    -3 Pyromancer Ascension

    +4 Deus of Calamity
    +4 Demigod of Revenge
    +4 Koth of the Hammer
    +3 Kargan Dragonlord

    Perhaps it would be necessary to run Simian Spirit guide MD, but would it be worth doing so?

    ---
    Any opinions on a splinter twin sideboard?

    +4 Pestermite
    +4 Deceiver Exarch
    +4 Splinter twin
    +3 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror breaker
    Last edited by benbuzz790: 1/5/2012 8:42:28 PM
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  • #2
    All-In Red looks about as vulnerable to counterspells as your typical plan does, especially since they banned Rite of Flame. About the only guy in the above plan that looks cast-able in time is Kargan Dragonlord. With a 16- to 18-land deck, I can't see how you'd cast the other guys without casting rituals, and those rituals are easily hosed by counterspells. The plan looks much more feasible with Simian Spirit Guide, but I think it was the critical mass of uber-cheap rituals that made All-In Red a deck--the Rite banning basically made it unplayable.

    Heck, without Past in Flames, targeted discard shoots your plans down even harder.

    A better transformational sideboard is probably the "man plan", with Delver of Secrets, Kiln Fiend, Vendilion Clique, Goblin Guide, and/or Dark Confidant. At least two of the above can be cast on Turn 1 while you opponent hasn't played disruption yet, and since your opponent likely boarded out removal, you have free rein.
  • #3
    We still have all the cantrips, I don't think actually getting to 4 or 5 land would be a problem if that's what we set out to do. Other than that though, I guess, you're right. Getting to 5 lands still doesn't really play around mana leak (or cryptic, at that point).

    Are we really trying to beat counterspells though? What hate have people been encountering the most? For me, it's mostly things that I can bounce.

    One advantage of "All-in" is that the creatures might be able to beat a zoo strategy by themselves, something a "man-plan" isn't necessarily going to be able to do.
    Last edited by benbuzz790: 1/5/2012 2:03:41 AM
    Facts of Magic

    -Terror is an emotion which, when experienced, results in death.
    -The pox was a disease notorious for having killed one-third, rounded up, of Europe’s population. Smallpox, on the other hand, killed only a single person.
    -A person riding a horse cannot be stopped by foot soldiers, large animals, walls, archers, or even catapults.

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  • #4
    Thought about it but never decided on what set of creatures to choose. Instead, my sideboard is supposed to be an anti-sideboard... Nature's claim to take out leyline of sanctity or ethersworn canonist. Guttural response for mindbreak trap when you want to cast that grapeshot... Pithing needle for artifact hate.

    In the end, the sideboard is heavily dependant on the meta...
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  • #5
    I don't think transforming to All-in Red is a good idea. You still lose to the same hate cards.

    Transforming to Splinter-Twin, though, could be good. Rule of Law, Ethersworn Cannonist, Thorn of Amethyst, Mindbreak Trap, etc., don't do anything against the Twin combo. So if your opponent boards out their removal, you can get them real good.
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  • #6
    and what about going for the EtW + Bushwhacker combo transformation? (if EtW is not in the maindeck already, like in the first post) . Not easy with inquiry and goblin lore, but when faithless looting is available, it may have some merit. Meanwhile, the kiln fiend plan is not a bad idea, unless your opponent knows what are you trying to pull off.
  • #7
    klin fiend and wee dragonauts? add gelectrode" target="blank">gelectrode for more fun Grin

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  • #8
    Transforming into either Kiln Fiend or bushwhacker doesn't help. You still lose to all the same hate cards.
    If God spoke to you, and commanded you to kill your own children, would you do it?

    If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.

    If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
  • #9
    Kiln Fiend doesn't lose to graveyard hate like Past in Flames does. The Empty the Warrens plan can also combo off on far less Storm (i.e. not leaning on PiF).
  • #10
    although, if you go for kiln fiend plan, you need to pack some removal IMHO, so you have to storm for 6 or 7 and cast grapeshot to get the lethal swing. both plans (etw or fiend) get through leyline of sanctity , but mindbreak trap and gaddock teeg is still an issue (but if you are playing remand it ,spell pierce (if you play UR) or removal they should do fine)
  • #11
    Mindbreak trap, canonist, rule of law, thorn of amethyst, etc. etc. etc.

    If you're going to transform, you need to transform into something that's resistant against the commonly played hate cards, or there's not much point in transforming.
    If God spoke to you, and commanded you to kill your own children, would you do it?

    If your answer is "No," then your morality does not come from God's commandments.

    If your answer is "Yes," then please, please reconsider.
  • #12
    The Vendillion Clique and Delver of Secrets man plan seems like it has something to it. It doesn't take up too many slots so you can still keep anti-hate cards in your sideboard, and can also leave an empty the warrens package in for sided games, it's low cost so you can play 16 land and still have it work and it's really good against the mirror.
  • #13
    Just tried the splinter twin sideboard.

    Worked like a charm. He played meddling mage naming empty the warrens.

    This deck is all kinds of fun to play.


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  • #14
    I have to third the transformational sideboard to Twin

    -3 Past in Flames
    -4 Pyromancers Ascension
    -3 Grapeshot
    -2 Pyretic Ritual/Repeal

    +3 Deciever Exarch
    +3 Pestermite
    +3 Kiki Jiki
    +3 Splinter Twin

    My other sideboard slot was Gigadrowse as it can fog or tap down important control land.
  • #15
    Quote from Lelolith
    I have to third the transformational sideboard to Twin

    -3 Past in Flames
    -4 Pyromancers Ascension
    -3 Grapeshot
    -2 Pyretic Ritual/Repeal

    +3 Deciever Exarch
    +3 Pestermite
    +3 Kiki Jiki
    +3 Splinter Twin

    My other sideboard slot was Gigadrowse as it can fog or tap down important control land.


    That actually looks pretty good. Why not 4 Deceiver Exarch and 2 Pestermite though? It is better against stray Lightning Bolts and stuff.
  • #16
    So, let's say we take this to a PTQ. What are the odds of Transformational Kiki-twin actually being beneficial to the point of going X-0 or many X-1/2?
  • #17
    I've tried the transformational sideboard in a local store competition, a PTQ and a GPT. Memorable wins include a Living End player who mull to 4 to get a Leyline of the Void only to face a gazillion Pestermite tokens.

    The transform works great in the early matches of the PTQ and GPT. But after word gets around, people tend to expect a transformational SB and are prepared for it. Especially if your GPT is only about 30 people.

    The transform is great to get around Relic of Progenitus, but has its own weakness as well, mainly in getting Thoughtseized or Inquisition of Kozilek.

    And against control, a full transform to deceiver combo does not solve the counterspell issue.
  • #18
    Quote from dragon-go!
    I've tried the transformational sideboard in a local store competition, a PTQ and a GPT. Memorable wins include a Living End player who mull to 4 to get a Leyline of the Void only to face a gazillion Pestermite tokens.

    The transform works great in the early matches of the PTQ and GPT. But after word gets around, people tend to expect a transformational SB and are prepared for it. Especially if your GPT is only about 30 people.

    The transform is great to get around Relic of Progenitus, but has its own weakness as well, mainly in getting Thoughtseized or Inquisition of Kozilek.

    And against control, a full transform to deceiver combo does not solve the counterspell issue.


    That might be true, but it gives us an easy way to force them to drop answers on their turn rather than the traditional counter key piece of our storm on ours.

    They'll end up tapping out while we drop key combo piece. It's actually pretty nice.

    It's the same thing against spot removal though.. Gotta fight through it and win with education(Probes)
  • #19
    Transforming takes most of a sideboard. Not transforming gives you ~11 more sideboard slots. That sums up my stance on the matter.

    Then again, I'm the kind of player who enjoys playing through 3 lock pieces, a couple duresses, and counterspells.
  • #20
    I am actually working on tweaking a Delver Tempo strategy via the sideboard, (So far it is just 4 Delver 3 Echoing Truth because I would like to have the remaining 8 cards contribute to handling the common strategies of the metagame while running on either gameplan) But the Splinter Twin strategy cannot be condensed into a sideboard gameplan successfully IMO because there are cards necessary to produce an effective Deciever Exarch victory that do not give benefit when associated with PiF-storm.
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  • #21
    The problem I have with the Splinter Twin transformational SB is that it still gets hit hard by the enchantment removal that your opponent might SB against you. I prefer the flying man-plan, preferably with wee dragonauts instead of kiln fiend to be sure to connect.
  • #22
    I am actually working on tweaking a Delver Tempo strategy via the sideboard, (So far it is just 4 Delver 3 Echoing Truth because I would like to have the remaining 8 cards contribute to handling the common strategies of the metagame while running on either gameplan) ...


    Quote from Maëlig
    The problem I have with the Splinter Twin transformational SB is that it still gets hit hard by the enchantment removal that your opponent might SB against you. I prefer the flying man-plan, preferably with wee dragonauts instead of kiln fiend to be sure to connect.
    There was a Delverstorm deck that recently went 4-0 in the SEs. a decklist can be found on the mothership, or in my latest article.
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  • #23
    Quote from BlippyTheSlug
    There was a Delverstorm deck that recently went 4-0 in the SEs. a decklist can be found on the mothership, or in my latest article.


    Its a good article you have written there. I just want to ask your opinion on the delverstorm SB. one of the main issues I face with that board is that it is a diluted tempo deck at best. It does not have the clock of a dedicated tempo deck like the UWR/UB/RUG Delvers and is a lot more susceptible to creature removals due to its reliance on just 7 creatures. And from my GPT/PTQ and MTGO 2-man queue experience with transformational SB, most opponents anticipate a transformational SB and keeps in some spot removal in case of and Exarch-Twin transform.

    How do you best utilize this transformational SB?
  • #24
    Quote from dragon-go!
    Its a good article you have written there. I just want to ask your opinion on the delverstorm SB. one of the main issues I face with that board is that it is a diluted tempo deck at best. It does not have the clock of a dedicated tempo deck like the UWR/UB/RUG Delvers and is a lot more susceptible to creature removals due to its reliance on just 7 creatures. And from my GPT/PTQ and MTGO 2-man queue experience with transformational SB, most opponents anticipate a transformational SB and keeps in some spot removal in case of and Exarch-Twin transform.

    How do you best utilize this transformational SB?
    Smile Thank you.

    I don't have any experience with Storm in competitive play, but I think that the "surprise!" factor is what does it. Many Storm decks have Kiln Fiend or Wee Dragonauts in the sideboard, but don't really transform into a "totally different deck" by siding them in. Whereas Splinterstorm & Delverstorm do, albeit not a full blown version.

    In the early rounds of a large event, before the cat's out of the bag, is when this process works best. In the 2-mans, are people really expecting every Storm deck to swap out to splinter or delver? Or are they just expecting the Kiln Fiend/Dragonaut? As far as how to do this best, against which matchups... your guess is as good as mine.
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  • #25
    Quote from dragon-go!
    Its a good article you have written there. I just want to ask your opinion on the delverstorm SB. one of the main issues I face with that board is that it is a diluted tempo deck at best. It does not have the clock of a dedicated tempo deck like the UWR/UB/RUG Delvers and is a lot more susceptible to creature removals due to its reliance on just 7 creatures. And from my GPT/PTQ and MTGO 2-man queue experience with transformational SB, most opponents anticipate a transformational SB and keeps in some spot removal in case of and Exarch-Twin transform.

    How do you best utilize this transformational SB?


    Remember that you always have the option to stay on storm G2, or come back to it G3 after your opponent saw your transmormational SB G2. It's a bit of a gamble, but if you think your opponent is going to keep a significant amount of creature removal (either because he decides to do so or because he can't board out all his removal, for example UWR delver), I'd advize to stick with your MD. He'll most likely draw some dead cards and you should be able to combo through the little hate he has.
    I do agree that 7 creatures is too few to make this work, though. I like 11-12 myself, which still leaves a few slots for some artifact removal.
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