When you play to resolve Past in Flames every single game, it turns out Burning Inquiry s actually rather insane.
I'm not entirely sure what your plan is supposed to be against decks with multiple counterspells, considering the reliance on Past in Flames. I suppose Empty the Warrens is much more reasonable as a win condition without PiF-ing, postboard
I like the look of the deck but am an absolute noob to it.. What conditions need to be met (eg cards in hand/gy) before you 'pull the trigger'?
preferably a PiF in hand or in gy. Looks like play/ dump cards in yard then activate PiF, cast more ramp and draw/ dump cards in yard until you have enough spells played to storm out your opponent with grapeshot.
I think this deck can be modified to be alot more potent. I would add at least another grapeshot.
Pretty good. I've never thought of using discard to feed the yard for Past in Flames. Random discard bites though. Wait for Dark Ascension, there'll be better cards for this deck.
Also, it's weird that the deck doesn't have Simian Spirit Guide. Or fetches, for that matter.
Without blue, you lose counterspells (which you can play against other counterspells), especially Remand - you can't do the Remand trick where you target your own Grapeshot to reuse it. On the other hand, you have a manabase that's less disruptable (and cheaper). Speaking of which, this deck does seem pretty cheap to build.
Simian spirit guide allows the ability to run fewer lands, and generate explosive starts. Can, in situations add to storm count, where as a land could not. Count him when referring to MANA SOURCES not spells. This will eliminate the whole "well, we can't flashback him" argument. He's good.
I chose not to run U in my mana base as to lessen the dependency on Manamorphose. This keeps the consistency of the deck and lessens the tension of the overall flow of play.
Magma Jet allows me to have answers for opposing forces, while giving me the ability to filter.
Noxious Revival acts as a mini Past in Flames. Allowing me to reuse rituals when coupled with Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose.
My transformational sideboard plan negates any graveyard hate that has been frequently showing up at my local meta. Not for everyone, just what I've been running.
I've got a question. I've been thinking about this kind of deck for some while now, but why arn't we playing pact of negation in the deck? Essentially you're saving it for when you want to win the game, and if a past in flames resolves, you now have it back again. I understand that if you mess up you just flat out lose, but it's worth considering, right?
I think it may be because it doesn't stop permanents from ruining the combo, like Rule of Law, Ethersworn Canonist, Tormod's Crypt. You can't drop a Pact on T2 and expect to survive next turn.
If your expected hate is counter-based, then yes, it can save you.
Side note: if you play blue you can use Ideas Unbound, which is a pretty sick draw spell. Downside is that it costs double blue, but that can be fixed by Manamorphose/Cascade Bluffs.
Faithless Looting is an immediate upgrade for Burning Inquiry, because Inquiry is terrible. "Draw three, then discard any form of coherence from your hand. Awesome."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
Not really. Past in Flames gives I/S in the yard flashback, so you can still cast discarded I/S. Inquiry practically gives you CA equal to 2 - the number of lands/SSGs you discarded to it.
I would cut Tezzeret's Gambit first, because 3 mana for 2 cards straight draw is terrible, even if you're playing mono-red and have no other options.
EDIT: And this deck is even more vulnerable to hate comparing to UR Storm. GY hate ruins it, Leyline of the Void means GG, while UR version can win without PiF.
I think Reverberate is more of utility as it can copy something like seething song.
What about a 1 or 2 of Visions of beyond? it can be had with blue from Manamorphose either in hand or in yard.
Unfortunately as soon as you start flashing back, you have to exile cards from the yard. So it's pretty unlikely that you'll be seeing 3 cards off Visions often.
Land-wise, the general order of duals from best to worst is shock>pain>filter>SOM>M10>anything else. Keep that in mind. For a fast deck like this you can use Gemstone Mine if you want.
Note that Reverberate can counter enemy counterspells, another utility use for it.
After some testing (well, goldfishing on Cockatrice) with this version, I personally believe going the Hybrid Storm way with 3 Past in Flames, 3 Pyromancer Ascension, 4 Grapeshot, and 2 Empty the Warrens is the way to go. I remember reading that Desperate Ravings is good in Hybrid Storm builds because those decks care more about accumulating a critical mass of spells, either in hand or in the graveyard, and I think that reasoning is applicable here.
A little testing so far shows that the above plan just jacks the deck's consistency to eleven. I was frustrated with how inconsistent the above deck was compared to UR Past in Flames Storm (even the non-Hybrid variants), and I think the above solves it.
edit: Anyone ever tried playing Locket of Yesterdays in this deck? It seems pretty powerful, turning any ritual into a Dark one, reduces the cost of Manamorphose, Lore, and most importantly Past in Flames.
I think when the new spoiled card in Dark Ascension that is a red careful study with flashback will make the mono red version viable. In the meantime I think UR is the way to go for the draw spells. But we will see what other goodies Dark Ascension gives us.
I've been goldfishing the build above alot and turn 2 wins are possibly and not too uncommon. I just need to work on mulligans more. For the SB I've been contemplating this:
Has anyone been still working on mono red storm? I've been playtesting my own version with past in flames, faithless looting, reforge the soul. I'm looking forward to the new sorcery speed spell wild guess, as I've been having some issues acquiring the needed critical mass of spells.
Has anyone been still working on mono red storm? I've been playtesting my own version with past in flames, faithless looting, reforge the soul. I'm looking forward to the new sorcery speed spell wild guess, as I've been having some issues acquiring the needed critical mass of spells.
I find it isnt about aquiring a critical mass of spells but chaining rituals and cantrips then killing with double grapeshot. Noxious Revival enables lots of fun tricks.
how do filter lands help in a mono colored deck to make it go "faster"? Because I must be missing something. They don't add to storm, they don't filter "more" when you go off with ascension, and they actually get in the way unless you filter all your mana into them immediately (otherwise they'll tap for 1 instead of R when you need it), and in the case of turn 1 shenanigans, the loss of life from probes is pretty negligible so even cascade doesn't seem all that necessary. Sideboard I could see, but that doesn't explain why it makes the deck 'faster'. I could see filter lands if you were playing pentad prism, but that's not in the list you posted (which is 57 cards, and i filled those slots with ascension to test it, though considering you already have reforge AND PiF, it seems a bit saturated).
I could see storage lands being cool if you are running less lands, but filter doesn't seem to do anything here that a mountain couldn't do better anyway. I must be missing something obvious because what you said struck me as all kinds of derp o.O
how do filter lands help in a mono colored deck to make it go "faster"? Because I must be missing something. They don't add to storm, they don't filter "more" when you go off with ascension, and they actually get in the way unless you filter all your mana into them immediately (otherwise they'll tap for 1 instead of R when you need it), and in the case of turn 1 shenanigans, the loss of life from probes is pretty negligible so even cascade doesn't seem all that necessary. Sideboard I could see, but that doesn't explain why it makes the deck 'faster'.
I could see storage lands being cool if you are running less lands, but filter doesn't seem to do anything here that a mountain couldn't do better anyway. I must be missing something obvious because what you said struck me as all kinds of derp o.O
It doesn't. And they don't belong in the list. I fixed the old posts. It was all kinds of derp! About time this thread started getting some feedback.
haha, fair enough! I just straight up replaced them with mountains. I like 6 fetches.
I'm trying a list that uses 6 fetches, 10 mountains, 4 locket, 4 reforge, 4 probe, 4 manamorphose, 3 ascension, 4 ssg, 4 song, 4 desperate, 4 pyretic, 4 looting, 3 grapeshot, 2 PiF as a starting point, and figure out where to add the bolts back in.
16 Mountain
16 lands
0 creatures
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Goblin Lore
2 Grapeshot
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
2 Noxious Revival
4 Past in Flames
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Reverberate
4 Seething Song
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
44 other spells
4 Empty the Warrens
1 Guttural Response
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Noxious Revival
3 Pithing Needle
2 Shattering Spree
1 Tezzeret's Gambit
I'm not entirely sure what your plan is supposed to be against decks with multiple counterspells, considering the reliance on Past in Flames. I suppose Empty the Warrens is much more reasonable as a win condition without PiF-ing, postboard
Also, needs Blood Moon, at least in SB.
looks like a fun list though.
:symwr:BorosBGR Living End(Primer) W Soul Sisters Tokens
UGrand Architect+Pili-Pala Infinite combo:symq::chaos:
preferably a PiF in hand or in gy. Looks like play/ dump cards in yard then activate PiF, cast more ramp and draw/ dump cards in yard until you have enough spells played to storm out your opponent with grapeshot.
I think this deck can be modified to be alot more potent. I would add at least another grapeshot.
:symwr:BorosBGR Living End(Primer) W Soul Sisters Tokens
UGrand Architect+Pili-Pala Infinite combo:symq::chaos:
Also, it's weird that the deck doesn't have Simian Spirit Guide. Or fetches, for that matter.
Without blue, you lose counterspells (which you can play against other counterspells), especially Remand - you can't do the Remand trick where you target your own Grapeshot to reuse it. On the other hand, you have a manabase that's less disruptable (and cheaper). Speaking of which, this deck does seem pretty cheap to build.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
MainDeck 60cards
Creatures- 4
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Instants- 27
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Manamorphose
4 Noxious Revival
3 Pyretic Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Grapeshot
4 Past in Flames
Lands- 17
4 Arid Mesa
9 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Bogardan Hellkite
4 Dragonstorm
3 Pyromancer's Swath
4 Shattering Spree
Card choices and explanations:
Simian spirit guide allows the ability to run fewer lands, and generate explosive starts. Can, in situations add to storm count, where as a land could not. Count him when referring to MANA SOURCES not spells. This will eliminate the whole "well, we can't flashback him" argument. He's good.
I chose not to run U in my mana base as to lessen the dependency on Manamorphose. This keeps the consistency of the deck and lessens the tension of the overall flow of play.
Magma Jet allows me to have answers for opposing forces, while giving me the ability to filter.
Noxious Revival acts as a mini Past in Flames. Allowing me to reuse rituals when coupled with Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose.
My transformational sideboard plan negates any graveyard hate that has been frequently showing up at my local meta. Not for everyone, just what I've been running.
Cannot wait for Faithless Looting.
If your expected hate is counter-based, then yes, it can save you.
Side note: if you play blue you can use Ideas Unbound, which is a pretty sick draw spell. Downside is that it costs double blue, but that can be fixed by Manamorphose/Cascade Bluffs.
Matt Nass has a UR decklist here.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
I would cut Tezzeret's Gambit first, because 3 mana for 2 cards straight draw is terrible, even if you're playing mono-red and have no other options.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
What about a 1 or 2 of Visions of beyond? it can be had with blue from Manamorphose either in hand or in yard.
RED STORM RISING
2 Arid Mesa
3 Stomping Ground
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Rootbound Crag
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Goblin Lore
3 Grapeshot
4 Manamorphose
3 Noxious Revival
4 Past in Flames
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Reverberate
4 Seething Song
2 Visions of Beyond
4 Empty the Warrens
3 Guttural Response
3 Nature's Claim
3 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
Green splash to get around hate? Take out Leylines, Canonists, Relics...
:symwr:BorosBGR Living End(Primer) W Soul Sisters Tokens
UGrand Architect+Pili-Pala Infinite combo:symq::chaos:
I think Reverberate is more of utility as it can copy something like seething song.
Sideboard is there for the GY hate. Pithing Needle stops Relic of Progenitus and tormod's crypt. Nature's Claim takes out Leyline of Sanctity/ Ethersworn Canonist/ Leyline of the Void.
:symwr:BorosBGR Living End(Primer) W Soul Sisters Tokens
UGrand Architect+Pili-Pala Infinite combo:symq::chaos:
Unfortunately as soon as you start flashing back, you have to exile cards from the yard. So it's pretty unlikely that you'll be seeing 3 cards off Visions often.
Land-wise, the general order of duals from best to worst is shock>pain>filter>SOM>M10>anything else. Keep that in mind. For a fast deck like this you can use Gemstone Mine if you want.
Note that Reverberate can counter enemy counterspells, another utility use for it.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
A little testing so far shows that the above plan just jacks the deck's consistency to eleven. I was frustrated with how inconsistent the above deck was compared to UR Past in Flames Storm (even the non-Hybrid variants), and I think the above solves it.
I wouldn't play Desperate Ravings in this deck, ever, because draw 2 pitch 1 is simply underpowered for 2 mana. Compare to Ideas Unbound, Peer through Depths, Goblin Lore.
edit: Anyone ever tried playing Locket of Yesterdays in this deck? It seems pretty powerful, turning any ritual into a Dark one, reduces the cost of Manamorphose, Lore, and most importantly Past in Flames.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Empty the Warrens
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Goblin Lore
3 Grapeshot
1 Lightning Bolt
4 Manamorphose
2 Noxious Revival
4 Past in Flames
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Reverberate
4 Seething Song
3 Karplusan Forest
6 Mountain
3 Rootbound Crag
2 Empty the Warrens
3 Guttural Response
3 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Nature's Claim
3 Pithing Needle
still in testing phase. Eventually I'm gonna try the UR route in time...
:symwr:BorosBGR Living End(Primer) W Soul Sisters Tokens
UGrand Architect+Pili-Pala Infinite combo:symq::chaos:
Reverberate can be replaced with Increasing Vengeance
3 Past in Flames
4 Manamorphose
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Faithless Looting
4 Noxious Revival
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Desperate ritual
4 Seething song
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Grapeshot
9 Mountains
4 Scaldin Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Defense Grid
3 Blood Moon
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Past in Flames
I'd like to try Pyromancer's Ascension, although I don't think it's necessary, but I'd have to tweak the mb numbers.
I wish they'd give of rite of flame back.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I find it isnt about aquiring a critical mass of spells but chaining rituals and cantrips then killing with double grapeshot. Noxious Revival enables lots of fun tricks.
how do filter lands help in a mono colored deck to make it go "faster"? Because I must be missing something. They don't add to storm, they don't filter "more" when you go off with ascension, and they actually get in the way unless you filter all your mana into them immediately (otherwise they'll tap for 1 instead of R when you need it), and in the case of turn 1 shenanigans, the loss of life from probes is pretty negligible so even cascade doesn't seem all that necessary. Sideboard I could see, but that doesn't explain why it makes the deck 'faster'. I could see filter lands if you were playing pentad prism, but that's not in the list you posted (which is 57 cards, and i filled those slots with ascension to test it, though considering you already have reforge AND PiF, it seems a bit saturated).
I could see storage lands being cool if you are running less lands, but filter doesn't seem to do anything here that a mountain couldn't do better anyway. I must be missing something obvious because what you said struck me as all kinds of derp o.O
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.
It doesn't. And they don't belong in the list. I fixed the old posts. It was all kinds of derp! About time this thread started getting some feedback.
I'm trying a list that uses 6 fetches, 10 mountains, 4 locket, 4 reforge, 4 probe, 4 manamorphose, 3 ascension, 4 ssg, 4 song, 4 desperate, 4 pyretic, 4 looting, 3 grapeshot, 2 PiF as a starting point, and figure out where to add the bolts back in.
http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ <---- kills spam, fyi.